Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I already have enough issues getting people to do vet trials and get them done in timely manners.

So this is the game breaking change for me after 3 years of subbing and buying from the crown store.

I don't have any more patience or support for these kind of *** changes (yes I said ***, ***k your feelings)

So if this change goes live without Appropriately adjusting Content (since all content CURRENTLY TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THESE CHAMPION POINTS) to compensate for these nerfs since mechanics and enrage timers on bosses makes DPS stacking necessary. Then I'm really done and will be recommending the same to anyone who asks. Terrible customer relations and responses.

No you can't have my stuff, I'll be destroying everything and deactivating account.

I'll wait until an official announcement comes at PTS or until the actions patch notes release and if they have done nothing to rectify the issues laid here in this thread then I'll wish everyone well but will not be supporting this game or the company.

not ALL content takes into account max cp. It takes into account up to CP 160.

False it takes into account your CP passives all the way up to the max percentage that we can accrue, that is why overland health on bosses goes up every patch we get a CP increase


This has been in every patch increment when we get a new max increase

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I already have enough issues getting people to do vet trials and get them done in timely manners.

So this is the game breaking change for me after 3 years of subbing and buying from the crown store.

I don't have any more patience or support for these kind of *** changes (yes I said ***, ***k your feelings)

So if this change goes live without Appropriately adjusting Content (since all content CURRENTLY TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THESE CHAMPION POINTS) to compensate for these nerfs since mechanics and enrage timers on bosses makes DPS stacking necessary. Then I'm really done and will be recommending the same to anyone who asks. Terrible customer relations and responses.

No you can't have my stuff, I'll be destroying everything and deactivating account.

I'll wait until an official announcement comes at PTS or until the actions patch notes release and if they have done nothing to rectify the issues laid here in this thread then I'll wish everyone well but will not be supporting this game or the company.

not ALL content takes into account max cp. It takes into account up to CP 160.

False it takes into account your CP passives all the way up to the max percentage that we can accrue, that is why overland health on bosses goes up every patch we get a CP increase


This has been in every patch increment when we get a new max increase

if that were the case, then people being scaled to 160 would be horrible and they would get no content done. THey dont get scaled to max cp.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.

My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.

I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.

That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.

What about enrage mechanics? Can you burn through them running a high sustain build? Have you tried getting your guildmates to do vmol with all 3 jewlery enchants in cost reduction?

i have never once said that some things would not have to change to accommodate this change. sure some things need to be tweaked.

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I already have enough issues getting people to do vet trials and get them done in timely manners.

So this is the game breaking change for me after 3 years of subbing and buying from the crown store.

I don't have any more patience or support for these kind of *** changes (yes I said ***, ***k your feelings)

So if this change goes live without Appropriately adjusting Content (since all content CURRENTLY TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THESE CHAMPION POINTS) to compensate for these nerfs since mechanics and enrage timers on bosses makes DPS stacking necessary. Then I'm really done and will be recommending the same to anyone who asks. Terrible customer relations and responses.

No you can't have my stuff, I'll be destroying everything and deactivating account.

I'll wait until an official announcement comes at PTS or until the actions patch notes release and if they have done nothing to rectify the issues laid here in this thread then I'll wish everyone well but will not be supporting this game or the company.

not ALL content takes into account max cp. It takes into account up to CP 160.

False it takes into account your CP passives all the way up to the max percentage that we can accrue, that is why overland health on bosses goes up every patch we get a CP increase


This has been in every patch increment when we get a new max increase

if that were the case, then people being scaled to 160 would be horrible and they would get no content done. THey dont get scaled to max cp.

What are you talking about?

You realize they already scale non CP players this way right?


The content is adjusted in health increases on overland bosses with every patch, not their damage or resistances. Those stay at 160cp

The health is increased every patch as ZoS's way to balance out the Damange increase from the NEW Max CP passive increase

Do your research before you make false claims

non cp players are scaled to cp160. What every zone is scaled to. They are not scaled to max cp.

How do you still not understand what I'm saying


I just literally told you that in my previous statement

Overland CONTENT stays at 160cp for ARMOR, RESISTANCES, and DAMAGE

However EVERY patch the HEALTH on ALL content for trials, dungeons and mobs in overland content is INCREASED for every CP INCREASE

Thus all content is scaled to your MAX CP percentage because of the HEALTH INCREASE

peacenote wrote: »

amasuriel wrote: »

They are obviously trying to make more build diversity but making it so you cannot wear all full damage sets and have good sustain, but my concern is that people will not adapt the way they think.

For every group than decides BiS is now lich and BSW instead of moondancer, there will be 2 more who demand (as if they don't now) 2 templar healers throwing Luminous Shards (the damage morph will not be an option any more) to make up for it.

It will mean healers other than templars will not be even remotely acceptable, and templars healers will be under enormous pressure to spam luminous shards as fast as possible.

It will also mean further distance between the ultra elite (who will keep their all DPS layouts and just demand more resources from their healers) and normal players (who will get used to having a damage set and a sustain set on them for 4 man, soloing etc). The gap between the top guilds and everyone else will grow even wider, as the playstyle and gear will be different.

This is my dread prediction if this goes live as is.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

You folks do realize that this hurts healers more than anyone right?

This will be a long post; it is what I do and why I don't often post on the forums. Feel free to ignore me if you'd prefer.

About me:
- I've been a healer across many games (Rift, Aion, SWTOR, ESO [since beta] and GW2...despite its "non-role" claim) and consider it my niche
- I call myself a self-coined (probably not really) term of "casual hardcore," which is a high intensity gamer who used to raid (my WoW days) and play every night, but can't spare the time anymore. I enjoy a challenge, but usually only get to play on weekends and, despite decent skills, often experience content later than others because it takes me longer to grind for BiS gear due to aforementioned time constraints

I've played ESO for a long time because I've truly enjoyed its evolution; I've been impressed with the consistent introduction of major changes. One Tamriel, the CP system, the theft system, the craft bag, the dye system, housing, even the Crown Store... people can complain all they like, but for me this game re-makes itself enough to keep me from jumping to another. It is my hobby. I pay a sub AND buy from the Crown Store because I believe in supporting endeavors that I think are worthwhile, and I am lucky enough that I can afford to do so. I also think that the fact that healers can contribute to DPS in this game makes it the best game for healers that I have ever experienced in an MMO.

I'm not panicking, and part of me thinks this change, just like all the others, will be just fine. However, I am appearing out of the woodwork and expressing some concern because I do feel that this announced change indicates a lack of planning and somewhat threatens my favored role and style of gameplay. I agree with the two folks that I have quoted. I have made a NB healer because Templar healing has become boring, and I will be disappointed beyond belief if that playstyle is reduced to non-viable.

I am worried that this proposed change will make healing less fun, and will result in a less flexible and less "One Tamriel-ish" type game than intended. I think the devs have the right motivation, but I want to take a moment and point out that no changes in the game should be made **just** for PVP (at the expense of PVE) and no changes should be made just because of the maxers (in the min-maxer category) because there are many of us that are outside of those two areas.

Because I only play a few times a week, I enjoy working towards solo-ing or duo-ing content that is meant for more participants. [It was a setback when ESO made it so dungeons scaled, but I adjusted. ] I can't participate in guilds that are regular "I do trials," as I am not available often enough, so instead I find like-minded folks to work through content as a duo to experience the same challenge, and sometimes will join PUGs. Because I am a healer, I need enough sustain in my build that allows me to also DPS so I can make progress in the game when I am on my own.

This is not an "I will quit if..." post, but just a reminder that not all of us PVP regularly, and not all of us are running min-max I-can-DPS-without-worrying-about-sustain builds. Some of us are using the sustain options to keep the game interesting while we fulfill our core role (which in my case is healing).

I realize we haven't seen any balancing announcements yet. I hope that there is a plan for this. But I feel obligated to jump in and ask devs to please not nerf sustain to the point where healers must spend all of their time and energy into just being a support role. ESO was unique in that way. It is part of your appeal. Look at the gamut of players and not just the vocal 1% before introducing changes that will majorly impact those of us that have quietly enjoyed the game due to the way it has been implemented thus far.

Finally (because I dislike being the "this-sucks-without-a-solution" individual), my suggestion is to re-think this idea and possibly still implement it, but with an alteration. I think the options to help with sustain should still be there, but perhaps a greater % of diminishing returns should be introduced for folks that put CP points into a specific area. This way, healers and alternate races can still leverage the options to keep the diversity alive, but people who have been investing in those categories to be "gods" in PVP or leverage armor and race synergy to pwn everyone else will need to think harder before choosing to spend those last 15 CP points in that area. (Min-max vs. inefficiency of minute benefit...what do I choose?!?)

Finally (part II) I am a fan of removing CP points (or having a different CP point map) for PVP vs. PVE. I do PVP and would like to see it balanced more. However, I don't want you to do this at the expense of and enjoyment of working towards solo-ing and duo-ing content in PVE. It might be time for a divergence.

Perhaps you have considered all of this and have solutions. If not, please think about what I (and others) have said before moving forward.

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I already have enough issues getting people to do vet trials and get them done in timely manners.

So this is the game breaking change for me after 3 years of subbing and buying from the crown store.

I don't have any more patience or support for these kind of *** changes (yes I said ***, ***k your feelings)

So if this change goes live without Appropriately adjusting Content (since all content CURRENTLY TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THESE CHAMPION POINTS) to compensate for these nerfs since mechanics and enrage timers on bosses makes DPS stacking necessary. Then I'm really done and will be recommending the same to anyone who asks. Terrible customer relations and responses.

No you can't have my stuff, I'll be destroying everything and deactivating account.

I'll wait until an official announcement comes at PTS or until the actions patch notes release and if they have done nothing to rectify the issues laid here in this thread then I'll wish everyone well but will not be supporting this game or the company.

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I already have enough issues getting people to do vet trials and get them done in timely manners.

So this is the game breaking change for me after 3 years of subbing and buying from the crown store.

I don't have any more patience or support for these kind of *** changes (yes I said ***, ***k your feelings)

So if this change goes live without Appropriately adjusting Content (since all content CURRENTLY TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THESE CHAMPION POINTS) to compensate for these nerfs since mechanics and enrage timers on bosses makes DPS stacking necessary. Then I'm really done and will be recommending the same to anyone who asks. Terrible customer relations and responses.

No you can't have my stuff, I'll be destroying everything and deactivating account.

I'll wait until an official announcement comes at PTS or until the actions patch notes release and if they have done nothing to rectify the issues laid here in this thread then I'll wish everyone well but will not be supporting this game or the company.

Bolded statement not true is all im saying. overland content does not take into account a max cp toon with cost reduction up the wazoo. It only goes to cp160.

You still don't understand and it's like talking to a brick wall


All conents health is increased every CP patch = All content takes into account CP increase


I can make a brand new character right now, Pump my 600 Cp into its trees and start hitting things but it will not burn faster because all the overland content is scaled to 160 anyway and has health increasesed to compensate for the other 440 CP

so all content takes CP into account PAST 160 because all health is increased every CP patch increase

Absalon wrote: »

Those possible changes made me stop from pre-ordering Morrowind. I enjoy how CP looks right now, tha variety of builds and set ups it offers, and if this nerf comes to live, I'll probably cancel my subscription and not support this game anymore.

JinMori wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OMG guys it's ONLY 16% skills cost increase. Atm I can fight 5-10 minutes in trial and end up fight having more then half magicka on bar sometimes even more then 70% same with stamina if healer provides decent support. It's really not so hard to manage resources in current meta and reducing it ONLY by 16% wont make devastating changes for PvE but will make it SLIGHTLY more challenging. For those who dont belive I can reccomend simple test. Bring healer that will provide support take off warlord/magician CP and do normal rotation on sturdy training skeleton. You'll see it's not that bad.

Wait, you beed sustain support for targ skele? Srsly? My not redguard stamina templar can sustain that long with no support utilizing caltrops. I thought my class got the bad rep. ;/

That was just simple test I reccomend to those who cry that game will be broken without warlord/magician. Fact You can sustain Your fight easily even without support only proves I am right and atm sustain is too easy. I was also talking about that 6M hp skeleton not 3M because I assume you think about this 2nd one. Now You can take off all CP's from warlord and try fight again You'll see it's not end of the world as some people thinks. Even if after Morrowind update we'll be forced to change 1 enchant into cost reduction still we'll get new portion of CP's that'll allow keep our DPS unchanged or even higher because I assume there will be CP cap increase.

100% untrue, you can't sustain without group buffs if you are using bis gear. This is true only for NB thanks to siphoning attacks

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

OMG guys it's ONLY 16% skills cost increase. Atm I can fight 5-10 minutes in trial and end up fight having more then half magicka on bar sometimes even more then 70% same with stamina if healer provides decent support. It's really not so hard to manage resources in current meta and reducing it ONLY by 16% wont make devastating changes for PvE but will make it SLIGHTLY more challenging. For those who dont belive I can reccomend simple test. Bring healer that will provide support take off warlord/magician CP and do normal rotation on sturdy training skeleton. You'll see it's not that bad.

Wait, you beed sustain support for targ skele? Srsly? My not redguard stamina templar can sustain that long with no support utilizing caltrops. I thought my class got the bad rep. ;/

That was just simple test I reccomend to those who cry that game will be broken without warlord/magician. Fact You can sustain Your fight easily even without support only proves I am right and atm sustain is too easy. I was also talking about that 6M hp skeleton not 3M because I assume you think about this 2nd one. Now You can take off all CP's from warlord and try fight again You'll see it's not end of the world as some people thinks. Even if after Morrowind update we'll be forced to change 1 enchant into cost reduction still we'll get new portion of CP's that'll allow keep our DPS unchanged or even higher because I assume there will be CP cap increase.

100% untrue, you can't sustain without group buffs if you are using bis gear. This is true only for NB thanks to siphoning attacks

This. I don't understand how so many people are making statements that they never run out of resources and wear best in slot DPS gear. I am always running out of mana on my MAG sorc without group buffs.

I completely understand how the "elites" who have perfect group composition, perfect gear setup, and perfect group skill setup may be able to state this. However, this is not the majority of people. When I PUG Vet dungeons I am always out of mana on my SORC. I couldn't imagine what it's like for a MAG DK LMAO. MAG DK skills are EXPENSIVE even with max cost reduction.