The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind
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GoldenLight✭✭✭This is why I put in this suggestion earlier and hope that Zenimax will at least look at this as an option to keep things in balance. This hopefully would not kill anyone's builds either.president.rassilonb14_ESO wrote: »Why not just do it this way....
Under Tower:
Magician = Reduce Magicka costs when wearing (Light armor (5 Pieces))
Warlord = Reduce Stamina costs when wearing (Medium Armor (5 Pieces))
New one:
Resolve: Reduce Damage when wearing (Heavy Armor (5 Pieces))
That way every armor type gets a bonus to where they need. Magicka reduction for wearing 5 Light armor, Stamina costs reduction for wearing 5 medium armor and damage reduction when wearing 5 heavy armor (which gets rid of the problem with cost reductions with heavy armor focus and still leaves 16% reduction to cost for stamina and magicka with the appropriate armor.
Leave Sprinter and Bashing focus there giving a total of 5 options for points and balance the game.
Edited by GoldenLight on March 23, 2017 5:18PM"Wonderful! Time for a celebration... Cheese for everyone!"12 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭president.rassilonb14_ESO wrote: »This is why I put in this suggestion earlier and hope that Zenimax will at least look at this as an option to keep things in balance. This hopefully would not kill anyone's builds either.president.rassilonb14_ESO wrote: »Why not just do it this way....
Under Tower:
Magician = Reduce Magicka costs when wearing (Light armor (5 Pieces))
Warlord = Reduce Stamina costs when wearing (Medium Armor (5 Pieces))
New one:
Resolve: Reduce Damage when wearing (Heavy Armor (5 Pieces))
That way every armor type gets a bonus to where they need. Magicka reduction for wearing 5 Light armor, Stamina costs reduction for wearing 5 medium armor and damage reduction when wearing 5 heavy armor (which gets rid of the problem with cost reductions with heavy armor focus and still leaves 16% reduction to cost for stamina and magicka with the appropriate armor.
Leave Sprinter and Bashing focus there giving a total of 5 options for points and balance the game.
How often has ZoS ever made a choice that makes sense when it comes to these types of decisions? Very rarely and thus far have had to retroactively fix *** they broke even when these issues were identified in PTS early on.
Happens every f***ing patch. They put it on pts, PTS players post pictures, videos, times consoles, servers and still gets released live and not one person on their community team managed to properly notify correct parties
OR they did and the corret person/persons
knew about the issue and did nothing in order to serve some ulterior motive at everyone else's expense.
That or they are really just that ignorant.
Could be all of the above. Idk anymore at this point.
Edited by Nelson_Rebel on March 23, 2017 5:30PM8 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Edited by JinMori on March 23, 2017 6:06PM6 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Edited by JinMori on March 23, 2017 6:59PM0 -
Callous2208✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭With these changes, quite a few races are gonna be worthless again. Not that they were ever really good choices, but now they'll be back to seriously gimping you if you choose to play them.6 -
What if you like solo play? Nerfing resources will end solo pve for me. Also I have a bad hand and spamming light/heavy attacks for resources is difficult.Edited by Ma6iq Man on March 23, 2017 7:13PM8
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Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭What if you like solo play? Nerfing resources will end solo pve for me. Also I have a bad hand and spamming light/heavy attacks for resources is difficult.
New BiS light/heavy attack for hours on end until you somehow scrounge up enough DPS. Good luck with that I won't be around for that garbage if it goes through lol4 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Redguard will be FOTM if these changes go live. I like Redguards( Favorite Race) but I don't want to see every stam build as a redguard, -___-Edited by Anti_Virus on March 23, 2017 7:51PMPower Wealth And Influence.3 -
jlboozer✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's times like these I wish this was a PvE only game. PvP balance ruins fun for PvE players....7 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Aside from being patently false; no, it doesn't work that way.
Cyrodiil is in it's own segregated, walled-off section of the servers. HEnce the timer to enter Cyrodiil, and the separate load screen to enter it.
And the other person's post was in regard to "balance patches" that are designed with PvP in mind, but affect the PvE side of the game (because only the most idiotic developer would think that PvP and PvE are interchangeable game-play-wise).
It has nothing to do with server lag or PvP performance issues, because just the very server structure would make that impossible.
Do at least a modicum of research, please.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!3 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And those feelings of sudden, irreversible weakness and increased difficulty will cause the casual Players to leave this game en masse.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
No MMO on the planet can survive without that Casual player base.
None of them.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!5 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭The fact that zos has failed to comment in this thread shows that they're nervous and don't know what to do. Should they nerf cp or keep it the same?
Vast majority of players commenting on this thread would vote the latter. Only the top guilds that speedrun trials or 1vx pvp are complaining that resource management is a joke. The other 99%, not so much. We actually need those cp. Even those of us that are max cp and experienced players with good sets have issues with sustain in the current cp setup. Take that away and many players that fall into this category will quitBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP10 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yup. Exactly my wife and mine position currently, and if the change goes through "as is".mr_wazzabi wrote: »The fact that zos has failed to comment in this thread shows that they're nervous and don't know what to do. Should they nerf cp or keep it the same?
Vast majority of players commenting on this thread would vote the latter. Only the top guilds that speedrun trials or 1vx pvp are complaining that resource management is a joke. The other 99%, not so much. We actually need those cp. Even those of us that are max cp and experienced players with good sets have issues with sustain in the current cp setup. Take that away and many players that fall into this category will quit
Well said.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!3 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »The fact that zos has failed to comment in this thread shows that they're nervous and don't know what to do. Should they nerf cp or keep it the same?
Vast majority of players commenting on this thread would vote the latter. Only the top guilds that speedrun trials or 1vx pvp are complaining that resource management is a joke. The other 99%, not so much. We actually need those cp. Even those of us that are max cp and experienced players with good sets have issues with sustain in the current cp setup. Take that away and many players that fall into this category will quit
Agreed. Rebalancing the game against elite players will do nothing but alienate the bottom 99.9% of the playerbase. Even IF this change is somehow good for the game, the extreme overwhelmingly negative reaction to it should be enough to make ZOS pause and reconsider it. No proposed change that is this negative is ever worth implementing and ZOS should be smart enough to be aware of that. They can be heroes here and rework this into something less drastic. Let's see if they choose that route or go with the ultra negative nerf.Edited by redspecter23 on March 23, 2017 8:36PM9 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Aside from being patently false; no, it doesn't work that way.
Cyrodiil is in it's own segregated, walled-off section of the servers. HEnce the timer to enter Cyrodiil, and the separate load screen to enter it.
And the other person's post was in regard to "balance patches" that are designed with PvP in mind, but affect the PvE side of the game (because only the most idiotic developer would think that PvP and PvE are interchangeable game-play-wise).
It has nothing to do with server lag or PvP performance issues, because just the very server structure would make that impossible.
Do at least a modicum of research, please.
He never said balance was the reason and I wasn't going to assume either. He just said my fun is ruining his fun so I responded. I did use a "maybe" in there just In case you missed that word. However 50k people spamming every AOE in the game in trials couldn't hurt performance on a server and that transition to PVP. So why did they say they increased the performance by nerfing proc sets in PVE and PVP. Maybe because it's on the same server. Like idk NA PS4.0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And the sheer method that they used to segregate Cyrodiil from every PvE Zone makes that not even a possibility.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Aside from being patently false; no, it doesn't work that way.
Cyrodiil is in it's own segregated, walled-off section of the servers. HEnce the timer to enter Cyrodiil, and the separate load screen to enter it.
And the other person's post was in regard to "balance patches" that are designed with PvP in mind, but affect the PvE side of the game (because only the most idiotic developer would think that PvP and PvE are interchangeable game-play-wise).
It has nothing to do with server lag or PvP performance issues, because just the very server structure would make that impossible.
Do at least a modicum of research, please.
He never said balance was the reason and I wasn't going to assume either. He just said my fun is ruining his fun so I responded. I did use a "maybe" in there just In case you missed that word. However 50k people spamming every AOE in the game in trials couldn't hurt performance on a server and that transition to PVP. So why did they say they increased the performance by nerfing proc sets in PVE and PVP. Maybe because it's on the same server. Like idk NA PS4.
ZOS just makes the same excuse because they seem to have no clue that PvP and PvE are entirely different beasts. So, they make "balance patches" designed around PvP, and have this idiotic idea that it's going to translate just as well to the PvE side.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!3 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭So this thread going to get closed. Really just becoming the same people saying they will quit. Quit threads are against tos. Just saying. Hehehehe1 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What about the casuals that want to challenge themselves with vma and trials? This change will put a stop to their aspirations pretty quickly when they're bled dry of resources in 2 rotationsBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP6 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade11 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There is no diversity in a game focused heavily around minmax set ups. ESO is very demanding in that area.EldritchPenguin wrote: »
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
Edited by Nifty2g on March 23, 2017 8:56PM#MOREORBS4 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What about the casuals that want to challenge themselves with vma and trials? This change will put a stop to their aspirations pretty quickly when they're bled dry of resources in 2 rotations
Just requires them to become more knowledgeable and better at the game. To do the harder content you need to step up your game is all.0 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭EldritchPenguin wrote: »
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
This. It's a cheap way of making the game harder to combat power creep.
There are some players that actually need the power creep to beat difficult content. This nerf to cp will shut those players down.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP4 -
NeillMcAttack✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is giving me mind herpes!
Firstly, how can a player with the full 16% cost reduction even be called a casual? Is it the content they play? Because in that case nothing but one group and one solo trial are even challenging right now to most that understand mechanics!
Secondly, how will this change effect the so-called casuals more than the hardcore raiders? Don't the raiders use FAR more skills per minute than a casual!? Like WAAY MORE!!
Because they will just "ask for another orb or shard"!? So your argument is basically; players shouldn't have to learn about skills, about resource sustaining abilities, about mechanics because I want to burn the bosses for little Puggy McPuggerson here. It doesn't make sense!! Should we all be able to fist bosses to death with unlimited sustain because the phrase "Play as you want" was mentioned 4 years ago??
It's getting absurd here where we have adults screaming "it's my ball and I'm going home" if this is implemented.
And finally, watch this space because the next FOTM thread here might be the return of the classic. "Players are bypassing mechanics and burning bosses. GG. Pls fix.
What are the Dev's even supposed to think about these kinds of threads? Keeping in mind that they have data down to the millisecond that we never will. Probably not a whole lot.... I hope.PC EU - NoCP PvP, is real PvPTiidehunter Nord StamDK EP PvP MainLegion Commander Tresdin Stamplar DC PvE MainSephirith Altmer MagPlar EP Gondar the Bounty Hunter Khajiit StamBlade DCThe Dirge Redguard StamNecro EP Disruptor Stormcrafter Nord StamSorc ADLone Druid Bosmer Stam Warden EP Necro-Phos Argonian MagBlade AD@ McAttack in gamePlayed since beta, and then on console at release, until the game became unplayable on console.2 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Redguard will be FOTM if these changes go live. I like Redguards( Favorite Race) but I don't want to see every stam build as a redguard, -___-
That's already a thing3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And those feelings of sudden, irreversible weakness and increased difficulty will cause the casual Players to leave this game en masse.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
No MMO on the planet can survive without that Casual player base.
None of them.
A casual is not the same thing as being ignorant, refusing to learn the basics and demand for the game to be balanced around you. Guess which one of the two categories has trouble completing content. Casuals may not push 50k DPS. But you dont need 50k DPS to complete most of the content. And in fact if there is a piece of content that actually demands you to push 50k DPS, well casuals dont even bother with it in the first place cause that would require getting into a good group. Even vMA that is actually considered a very hard content for most people, it can be done with 0 CP. Not just without cost reduction.
Removing cost reduction doesnt mean casuals wont be able to complete most of the content cause that content doesnt require you to be in BiS gear and groups to begin with. It will make them feel weaker but thats about it. Not a huge impact on what they were doing anw.
If some people feel like quitting just because it will make them feel weaker well good for them but dont expect everyone to follow them. Thats like saying people quit their jobs whenever they have a setback. Sry but thats not how it works. The game survived bigger changes. It will survive now too. And out of all the changes that happened to this game, if u actually believe that it will die now with morrowind coming then man, u really dont know how many elder scrolls fanboys are out there. The casual player base will be actually bigger. Not smaller.
1 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭mr_wazzabi wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
This. It's a cheap way of making the game harder to combat power creep.
There are some players that actually need the power creep to beat difficult content. This nerf to cp will shut those players down.
This is what a crowdsurfer looks like. Why would you sacrifice 522 spell damage with 100% uptime when you can just equip 5pc magnus over your BSW and potentially get greater gains and sufficient management over running 3x cost redux glyphs?
Or lich?
Or any of the 50 million light armor sets designed around giving you back resources?
Or simply swap to 3 healthy Willpower so you can run Witchmothers?Edited by usmcjdking on March 23, 2017 9:17PM0331
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