president.rassilonb14_ESO wrote: »Why not just do it this way....
Under Tower:
Magician = Reduce Magicka costs when wearing (Light armor (5 Pieces))
Warlord = Reduce Stamina costs when wearing (Medium Armor (5 Pieces))
New one:
Resolve: Reduce Damage when wearing (Heavy Armor (5 Pieces))
That way every armor type gets a bonus to where they need. Magicka reduction for wearing 5 Light armor, Stamina costs reduction for wearing 5 medium armor and damage reduction when wearing 5 heavy armor (which gets rid of the problem with cost reductions with heavy armor focus and still leaves 16% reduction to cost for stamina and magicka with the appropriate armor.
Leave Sprinter and Bashing focus there giving a total of 5 options for points and balance the game.
president.rassilonb14_ESO wrote: »This is why I put in this suggestion earlier and hope that Zenimax will at least look at this as an option to keep things in balance. This hopefully would not kill anyone's builds either.president.rassilonb14_ESO wrote: »Why not just do it this way....
Under Tower:
Magician = Reduce Magicka costs when wearing (Light armor (5 Pieces))
Warlord = Reduce Stamina costs when wearing (Medium Armor (5 Pieces))
New one:
Resolve: Reduce Damage when wearing (Heavy Armor (5 Pieces))
That way every armor type gets a bonus to where they need. Magicka reduction for wearing 5 Light armor, Stamina costs reduction for wearing 5 medium armor and damage reduction when wearing 5 heavy armor (which gets rid of the problem with cost reductions with heavy armor focus and still leaves 16% reduction to cost for stamina and magicka with the appropriate armor.
Leave Sprinter and Bashing focus there giving a total of 5 options for points and balance the game.
bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What if you like solo play? Nerfing resources will end solo pve for me. Also I have a bad hand and spamming light/heavy attacks for resources is difficult.
bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Aside from being patently false; no, it doesn't work that way.
And those feelings of sudden, irreversible weakness and increased difficulty will cause the casual Players to leave this game en masse.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
Yup. Exactly my wife and mine position currently, and if the change goes through "as is".mr_wazzabi wrote: »The fact that zos has failed to comment in this thread shows that they're nervous and don't know what to do. Should they nerf cp or keep it the same?
Vast majority of players commenting on this thread would vote the latter. Only the top guilds that speedrun trials or 1vx pvp are complaining that resource management is a joke. The other 99%, not so much. We actually need those cp. Even those of us that are max cp and experienced players with good sets have issues with sustain in the current cp setup. Take that away and many players that fall into this category will quit
mr_wazzabi wrote: »The fact that zos has failed to comment in this thread shows that they're nervous and don't know what to do. Should they nerf cp or keep it the same?
Vast majority of players commenting on this thread would vote the latter. Only the top guilds that speedrun trials or 1vx pvp are complaining that resource management is a joke. The other 99%, not so much. We actually need those cp. Even those of us that are max cp and experienced players with good sets have issues with sustain in the current cp setup. Take that away and many players that fall into this category will quit
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Aside from being patently false; no, it doesn't work that way.
Cyrodiil is in it's own segregated, walled-off section of the servers. HEnce the timer to enter Cyrodiil, and the separate load screen to enter it.
And the other person's post was in regard to "balance patches" that are designed with PvP in mind, but affect the PvE side of the game (because only the most idiotic developer would think that PvP and PvE are interchangeable game-play-wise).
It has nothing to do with server lag or PvP performance issues, because just the very server structure would make that impossible.
Do at least a modicum of research, please.
And the sheer method that they used to segregate Cyrodiil from every PvE Zone makes that not even a possibility.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »Aside from being patently false; no, it doesn't work that way.
Cyrodiil is in it's own segregated, walled-off section of the servers. HEnce the timer to enter Cyrodiil, and the separate load screen to enter it.
And the other person's post was in regard to "balance patches" that are designed with PvP in mind, but affect the PvE side of the game (because only the most idiotic developer would think that PvP and PvE are interchangeable game-play-wise).
It has nothing to do with server lag or PvP performance issues, because just the very server structure would make that impossible.
Do at least a modicum of research, please.
He never said balance was the reason and I wasn't going to assume either. He just said my fun is ruining his fun so I responded. I did use a "maybe" in there just In case you missed that word. However 50k people spamming every AOE in the game in trials couldn't hurt performance on a server and that transition to PVP. So why did they say they increased the performance by nerfing proc sets in PVE and PVP. Maybe because it's on the same server. Like idk NA PS4.
bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
There is no diversity in a game focused heavily around minmax set ups. ESO is very demanding in that area.EldritchPenguin wrote: »But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
mr_wazzabi wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What about the casuals that want to challenge themselves with vma and trials? This change will put a stop to their aspirations pretty quickly when they're bled dry of resources in 2 rotations
EldritchPenguin wrote: »But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
Anti_Virus wrote: »Redguard will be FOTM if these changes go live. I like Redguards( Favorite Race) but I don't want to see every stam build as a redguard, -___-
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »And those feelings of sudden, irreversible weakness and increased difficulty will cause the casual Players to leave this game en masse.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
No MMO on the planet can survive without that Casual player base.
None of them.
mr_wazzabi wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »But why is everyone running 3 cost reduction glyphs any better than everyone running 3 damage glyphs? There's still no build diversity with either option, and it doesn't change how anyone plays the game. It's just switching around a couple numbers on a character sheet and arbitrarily making the game more difficult via deflating DPS to effectively inflate enemy health pools.bowmanz607 wrote: »bowmanz607 wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »My wife and I feel that way.
We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.
We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.
We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.
So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.
And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.
Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.
About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.
Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.
And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.
Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.
This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.
My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.
I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.
That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.
Is it a problem though?
I don't think so, without a good group you will run out of resources pretty fast, instead if you have a good group you can manage your resources, and this mean that player skills are rewarded, which is a very good thing.
With this change build variety won't change a bit, it will just force players to use 1 or 2 cost reduction glyphs, is this a good change? No it's not. No game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, because it's *** stupid, forcing people to run a specific setup is stupid.
If you have a good group you can run full damage because you have support, and it should stay like this.
Yes, it is a problem. This whole you need a group to manage resources thing is nonsense. Maybe maybe in the toughest content the game has to offer. This is hardly true for 98% of the content. And being that you have been talking about content for casuals as your basis for not wanting this change, that hard content is not even the part of your argument overall.
Additionally, you have gone on and on in multiple threads about how this will destroy the game and casuals will just quite cause managing your resources will be to hard etc etc etc. Yet, here you are saying what is it going to change besides running one or two cost reduction glyphs. Haha, how laughable. You can't have it both ways. Why don't you pick an argument and come back when you stop flip flipping.
The issue is everyone wants to be a dps and pump out all they can and not have to worry about anythingrinding else.
And no full damage is also tied to heals so you don't even need a group to support you if you don't want to. And again, you definitely don't need a group to sustain with full damage. That is exactly the issue. Cp as is allows for full damage because of the sustain in cp.
Your argument has gone from this will break the game for most to it hardly changes anything besides a couple glyphs so why do it to I want full damage because it is more fun
*slow clap*
What i meant is that it will ruin sustain for bis gear with 3 spell damage enchantments. I understood from the start that you could run some sustain glyphs to "fix" the problem, i just think it's stupid. You want to tell me that forcing people to run cost reduction glyphs is a good solution? Everyone will be pissed, they will slot a cost reduction glyph, and everything will be the same as before, Such a good fix right? No it's not.
I think that most people can agree that it's much more fun to have more then 1 way to sustain.
Right now you can sustain with a good group and full dps gear, or you can sustain with sustain setups, and it should stay like this.
As i said before forcing people to run certain setups is not good, and it seems that most people agree with this.
And lastly where did i flip flop? Flip flop would be like: i'm completely for this change, and then some time later: i'm completely against this change. I never did that.
Actually yeah it is. That is the whole point of the change. Resource management to be part of ur build. Sure people will be pissed. But they will be pissed because they will feel weaker not because the change is actually bad for the game.
This. It's a cheap way of making the game harder to combat power creep.
There are some players that actually need the power creep to beat difficult content. This nerf to cp will shut those players down.