Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Quigster wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.

My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.

I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.

That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.

My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.

I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.

That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.

Current mechanics require this "stack mentality" enrage mechanics, timers for certain bosses, etc

ZoS created it and made it necessary, so get rid of those or lower the health to compensate would literally be the only way to go forward which doesn't address the issue that the developers created it.

Right now the games content TAKES into account CURRENT champion point abilities, so they will HAVE to adjust the content to compensate

mr_wazzabi · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.

My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.

I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.

That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.

What about enrage mechanics? Can you burn through them running a high sustain build? Have you tried getting your guildmates to do vmol with all 3 jewlery enchants in cost reduction?

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.

My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.

I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.

That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.

What about enrage mechanics? Can you burn through them running a high sustain build? Have you tried getting your guildmates to do vmol with all 3 jewlery enchants in cost reduction?

Classic example. ICP.

If you take too long to kill the flesh atro's they start murdering you with oneshots.

"Cant you run through it with a sustain build"? ...Obviously not.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.

My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.

I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.

That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.

What about enrage mechanics? Can you burn through them running a high sustain build? Have you tried getting your guildmates to do vmol with all 3 jewlery enchants in cost reduction?

i have never once said that some things would not have to change to accommodate this change. sure some things need to be tweaked.

mr_wazzabi · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.

My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.

I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.

That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.

What about enrage mechanics? Can you burn through them running a high sustain build? Have you tried getting your guildmates to do vmol with all 3 jewlery enchants in cost reduction?

i have never once said that some things would not have to change to accommodate this change. sure some things need to be tweaked.

Left alone is better than changed and tweaked. As it goes now, it will be nearly impossible to finish vma without vo (good luck finding trial groups as stam dps), and as a magicka dk.

If the cost reduction was taken away from cp and put into light and medium armour, i can get behind that, but with just cost reduction from armour passives, you'd blow through all your resources in 1 rotation. Imagine doing that in vma. Death

mr_wazzabi · March 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.

My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.

I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.

That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.

What about enrage mechanics? Can you burn through them running a high sustain build? Have you tried getting your guildmates to do vmol with all 3 jewlery enchants in cost reduction?

Classic example. ICP.

If you take too long to kill the flesh atro's they start murdering you with oneshots.

"Cant you run through it with a sustain build"? ...Obviously not.

Yup, I'm trying to make that point. Also look at round 5 vma on the final platform. If you don't burn the boss fast enough, she breaks the platform and you die. Not doing that with 2300 weapon damage and 3 cost reduction jewelery glyphs.

EldritchPenguin · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Quigster wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

This was very well said, and fits my situation perfectly.

My wife and I are casual players. We walked away from WoW (we were very hardcore there) due to game changes we vehemently disagreed with. In ESO we have a taken a much more relaxed approach and are enjoying the game even more than WoW. It helps that I have since retired and she plans to retire this year. We are both Plus members and have purchased additional crowns for additional items. Similarly our household has contributed a fairly decent sum to the development and creation of this game and it's ongoing content. When I saw these proposed changes, I thought to myself: how is this going to benefit me, improve my game play, or improve my enjoyment of the game. In short, it isn't. We both wear only crafted gear. I have 11 characters and 7 of them are vet. With my gear setups I can consistently drain my resource pool on most of my characters even with 593 CP. The first thing I put points into was cost reduction and resource recovery. These changes will force me to change some gear, or enchants, and thereby lower my DPS to keep my sustain levels where they are today. So, explain to me how lowering my DPS today is going to improve my enjoyment of the game tomorrow? If the developers think resource management is too easy, they are not looking at a broad enough sampling of the player base. And they certainly have not been watching my account.

I discussed this issue with my wife the other day. Her vote was wait and see what happens. However, if the changes are implemented and our DPS drops, then she is in favor of us cancelling our subs and moving elsewhere.

That is the issue. This game is about stack dps and nothing else matters. No detriment to stacking damage since soft caps removed. You can just stack stack stack and not worry about anything else.

To a certain extent, yes, this is a point of the game that needs to be addressed, and players should probably have to think about sustain in their builds, even for PvE DPS builds.

However, "thinking about sustain" in this case is going to be "use reduce cost glyphs instead of damage glyphs." And I really have to wonder why it's so much better when players use sustain glyphs instead of damage glyphs. If players are still going to use BSW + Moondancer + damage-based monster set (which they will, since you can gain way more damage from a 5-piece than you can from 3 jewelry enchants, so under no circumstances is it worth giving up BSW to keep damage enchants on your jewelry), then the change has really accomplished nothing. Players are still using the same handful of sets, and they're still using the same jewelry enchants across on all three jewelry pieces. The only difference is that now the damage is slightly lower, since we don't have 3 damage glyphs. Dungeons and raids suddenly take slightly longer.

If the change is intended to lower player DPS across the board, then that's one thing. If it's intended to create more build diversity aside from stacking DPS by trying to get players to think more about sustain, then it's a useless change, because builds are hardly going to change at all, and we're going to be right back to carbon copy builds for every Magicka DPS setup. Especially if they adjust content to account for the lower DPS.

clocksstoppe · March 2017

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Yup, I'm trying to make that point. Also look at round 5 vma on the final platform. If you don't burn the boss fast enough, she breaks the platform and you die. Not doing that with 2300 weapon damage and 3 cost reduction jewelery glyphs.

Yes this is a serious concern. I literally had to go for a very aggressive damage build on my character because the 5th stage final boss is literally a DPS race.

Koolio · March 2017

Two consecutive patches of getting weaker.
Next patch
"Removed Mighty and Elemental Expert to lower the DPS ceiling"
After that
"Remove spell crit and weapon crit CP trees to continue lowering your damage"
After that
"Reduced max gear cap to 140 to lower your DPS some more"
Lmao
This is how I feel this will turn out. I might give these changes a test because I love this game. However another "across the board" nerf to all classes like this upcoming change and I'll just go play something else. Not worth the effort if I'm weaker than last year.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

You're entire argument rests on your own self approved assumptions that people aren't learning the basics and coming up with your own statistics, You should read the above aforementioned comment here

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)
Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed

Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum

Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction

Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

Sure people come to the game to relax and play. That does not mean you should not learn the basics of a game because you just want to be strong from the beginning.

Just because you are casual does not mean that you don't need to learn things about the game. And just because you sub and have spent money on crowns does not mean you know those basics.

Sure the game is an escape, but this isn't hello kitty game or sesame Street. This is rated M. It requires a bit of effort to learn something about the game.

Please please stop with most people this most people that crap. It is, "in your own experience that many people are against the change." That is not true for everyone.

Sure casual make up a solid part of the game, but ignorant casuals do not. To be a casual does not mean you no nothing. A casual can still take time to learn the basics to succeed in majority of this game. Something many casuals do in my experience.

Again, simply thinking you do not need to learn these basics because you should just be able to do it is such an entitled stance. Grrrr I bought the game and now I have to learn the basics. The sky is falling.

Right now if you don't know the basics you will fail, so your argument is flawed.

I got in so many very bad groups, and let me tell you, if i wasn't carring them with very high dps they would have never gotten through the dungeon. So no, i don't think this game is too easy.

The removal of these 2 cp will just make things worse for everyone, it's just a stupid change.

I must say, if this is the work that streamers have done while they were at zos hq, i'm extremely disappointed.

It is the work of streamers.

ZOS has allways deligated to a bunch of people who they can use, both to evalulate high level play as people predicted they would, -and- have a greater chance to wrangle the playerbase into acceptance given streamer popularity.

amasuriel · March 2017

I agree it doesn't make much sense to say "this change is fine, people will just pop more orbs" when that is only true for skilled groups. As someone pointed out, something like 5% of people have ever completed a vet trial of any kind. I do pug normal trials sometimes and sometimes it's great, sometimes I don't see orbs or shards going out AT ALL.

Same with 4 man, the number of 4 man groups where orbs are coming fast and furious was low, it takes a lot of skill to keep everyone alive, keep bosses debuffed, make sure everyone has orbs and cleanses etc. You are just as likely to have a 35k single target DPS as a healer who does this, which means again, a tiny percentage of the population will rely even more heavily on their awesome healer and be fine, most people will have to run sustain sets.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

You're entire argument rests on your own self approved assumptions that people aren't learning the basics and coming up with your own statistics, You should read the above aforementioned comment here

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)
Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed

Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum

Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction

Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

Sure people come to the game to relax and play. That does not mean you should not learn the basics of a game because you just want to be strong from the beginning.

Just because you are casual does not mean that you don't need to learn things about the game. And just because you sub and have spent money on crowns does not mean you know those basics.

Sure the game is an escape, but this isn't hello kitty game or sesame Street. This is rated M. It requires a bit of effort to learn something about the game.

Please please stop with most people this most people that crap. It is, "in your own experience that many people are against the change." That is not true for everyone.

Sure casual make up a solid part of the game, but ignorant casuals do not. To be a casual does not mean you no nothing. A casual can still take time to learn the basics to succeed in majority of this game. Something many casuals do in my experience.

Again, simply thinking you do not need to learn these basics because you should just be able to do it is such an entitled stance. Grrrr I bought the game and now I have to learn the basics. The sky is falling.

Right now if you don't know the basics you will fail, so your argument is flawed.

I got in so many very bad groups, and let me tell you, if i wasn't carring them with very high dps they would have never gotten through the dungeon. So no, i don't think this game is too easy.

The removal of these 2 cp will just make things worse for everyone, it's just a stupid change.

I must say, if this is the work that streamers have done while they were at zos hq, i'm extremely disappointed.

It is the work of streamers.

ZOS has allways deligated to a bunch of people who they can use, both to evalulate high level play as people predicted they would, -and- have a greater chance to wrangle the playerbase into acceptance given streamer popularity.

pieratsos · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

You're entire argument rests on your own self approved assumptions that people aren't learning the basics and coming up with your own statistics, You should read the above aforementioned comment here

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)
Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed

Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum

Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction

Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

Sure people come to the game to relax and play. That does not mean you should not learn the basics of a game because you just want to be strong from the beginning.

Just because you are casual does not mean that you don't need to learn things about the game. And just because you sub and have spent money on crowns does not mean you know those basics.

Sure the game is an escape, but this isn't hello kitty game or sesame Street. This is rated M. It requires a bit of effort to learn something about the game.

Please please stop with most people this most people that crap. It is, "in your own experience that many people are against the change." That is not true for everyone.

Sure casual make up a solid part of the game, but ignorant casuals do not. To be a casual does not mean you no nothing. A casual can still take time to learn the basics to succeed in majority of this game. Something many casuals do in my experience.

Again, simply thinking you do not need to learn these basics because you should just be able to do it is such an entitled stance. Grrrr I bought the game and now I have to learn the basics. The sky is falling.

Right now if you don't know the basics you will fail, so your argument is flawed.

I got in so many very bad groups, and let me tell you, if i wasn't carring them with very high dps they would have never gotten through the dungeon. So no, i don't think this game is too easy.

The removal of these 2 cp will just make things worse for everyone, it's just a stupid change.

I must say, if this is the work that streamers have done while they were at zos hq, i'm extremely disappointed.

That right there actually proves how easy the content is. You literally said im carrying alone a whole group in dungeons that were designed for 4 people. If those people dont even bother to learn the basics of the game they should not be able to complete it.

S1ipperyJim · March 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Yup, I'm trying to make that point. Also look at round 5 vma on the final platform. If you don't burn the boss fast enough, she breaks the platform and you die. Not doing that with 2300 weapon damage and 3 cost reduction jewelery glyphs.

Yes this is a serious concern. I literally had to go for a very aggressive damage build on my character because the 5th stage final boss is literally a DPS race.

You don't need particularly high dps for that last platform, only about 15k which is relatively low.

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

OMG guys it's ONLY 16% skills cost increase. Atm I can fight 5-10 minutes in trial and end up fight having more then half magicka on bar sometimes even more then 70% same with stamina if healer provides decent support. It's really not so hard to manage resources in current meta and reducing it ONLY by 16% wont make devastating changes for PvE but will make it SLIGHTLY more challenging. For those who dont belive I can reccomend simple test. Bring healer that will provide support take off warlord/magician CP and do normal rotation on sturdy training skeleton. You'll see it's not that bad.

Wait, you beed sustain support for targ skele? Srsly? My not redguard stamina templar can sustain that long with no support utilizing caltrops. I thought my class got the bad rep. ;/

Shanjijri · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Griffe wrote: »

I'm afraid for my NB healer. Not only for his own ressources. As I said before, we have some skills to restore magicka (Mystic Orbs, Siphon Spirit, Elemental Drain) and zero to restore stamina. Or I missed something. I'll try to farm the Master restoration staff but... Three non-class skills (or more, I don't remember correctly) to restore magicka. Zero to restore stamina. Just why.

NB are in best spot because of siphoning attacks. Which does restore stam.

I mean to restore my teammates' stamina.

luen79rwb17_ESO · March 2017

I'm all with making sustain and resource management meaningful as long as the DPS race bosses get some sort of balance around the new numbers.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

You're entire argument rests on your own self approved assumptions that people aren't learning the basics and coming up with your own statistics, You should read the above aforementioned comment here

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)
Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed

Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum

Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction

Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

Sure people come to the game to relax and play. That does not mean you should not learn the basics of a game because you just want to be strong from the beginning.

Just because you are casual does not mean that you don't need to learn things about the game. And just because you sub and have spent money on crowns does not mean you know those basics.

Sure the game is an escape, but this isn't hello kitty game or sesame Street. This is rated M. It requires a bit of effort to learn something about the game.

Please please stop with most people this most people that crap. It is, "in your own experience that many people are against the change." That is not true for everyone.

Sure casual make up a solid part of the game, but ignorant casuals do not. To be a casual does not mean you no nothing. A casual can still take time to learn the basics to succeed in majority of this game. Something many casuals do in my experience.

Again, simply thinking you do not need to learn these basics because you should just be able to do it is such an entitled stance. Grrrr I bought the game and now I have to learn the basics. The sky is falling.

Right now if you don't know the basics you will fail, so your argument is flawed.

I got in so many very bad groups, and let me tell you, if i wasn't carring them with very high dps they would have never gotten through the dungeon. So no, i don't think this game is too easy.

The removal of these 2 cp will just make things worse for everyone, it's just a stupid change.

I must say, if this is the work that streamers have done while they were at zos hq, i'm extremely disappointed.

It is the work of streamers.

ZOS has allways deligated to a bunch of people who they can use, both to evalulate high level play as people predicted they would, -and- have a greater chance to wrangle the playerbase into acceptance given streamer popularity.

Your right. It is a theory, allthough I wont say conspiracy.

Consider this, however.

If you were going to make a change you knew was going to be wildly unpopular, would you not attempt to get wildly popular figures on board to soften public opinion, carefully regulate the outflow of information reguarding the subject, and attempt to get it in under the deadline?

These are not uncommon tactics, and if this change is planned, and has been planned, like it likely has, these are the tactics I would expect a company to use. It isn't even a uncommon tactic outside of gaming, politics is full of it.

peacenote · March 2017

amasuriel wrote: »

They are obviously trying to make more build diversity but making it so you cannot wear all full damage sets and have good sustain, but my concern is that people will not adapt the way they think.

For every group than decides BiS is now lich and BSW instead of moondancer, there will be 2 more who demand (as if they don't now) 2 templar healers throwing Luminous Shards (the damage morph will not be an option any more) to make up for it.

It will mean healers other than templars will not be even remotely acceptable, and templars healers will be under enormous pressure to spam luminous shards as fast as possible.

It will also mean further distance between the ultra elite (who will keep their all DPS layouts and just demand more resources from their healers) and normal players (who will get used to having a damage set and a sustain set on them for 4 man, soloing etc). The gap between the top guilds and everyone else will grow even wider, as the playstyle and gear will be different.

This is my dread prediction if this goes live as is.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

You folks do realize that this hurts healers more than anyone right?

This will be a long post; it is what I do and why I don't often post on the forums. Feel free to ignore me if you'd prefer.

About me:
- I've been a healer across many games (Rift, Aion, SWTOR, ESO [since beta] and GW2...despite its "non-role" claim) and consider it my niche
- I call myself a self-coined (probably not really) term of "casual hardcore," which is a high intensity gamer who used to raid (my WoW days) and play every night, but can't spare the time anymore. I enjoy a challenge, but usually only get to play on weekends and, despite decent skills, often experience content later than others because it takes me longer to grind for BiS gear due to aforementioned time constraints

I've played ESO for a long time because I've truly enjoyed its evolution; I've been impressed with the consistent introduction of major changes. One Tamriel, the CP system, the theft system, the craft bag, the dye system, housing, even the Crown Store... people can complain all they like, but for me this game re-makes itself enough to keep me from jumping to another. It is my hobby. I pay a sub AND buy from the Crown Store because I believe in supporting endeavors that I think are worthwhile, and I am lucky enough that I can afford to do so. I also think that the fact that healers can contribute to DPS in this game makes it the best game for healers that I have ever experienced in an MMO.

I'm not panicking, and part of me thinks this change, just like all the others, will be just fine. However, I am appearing out of the woodwork and expressing some concern because I do feel that this announced change indicates a lack of planning and somewhat threatens my favored role and style of gameplay. I agree with the two folks that I have quoted. I have made a NB healer because Templar healing has become boring, and I will be disappointed beyond belief if that playstyle is reduced to non-viable.

I am worried that this proposed change will make healing less fun, and will result in a less flexible and less "One Tamriel-ish" type game than intended. I think the devs have the right motivation, but I want to take a moment and point out that no changes in the game should be made **just** for PVP (at the expense of PVE) and no changes should be made just because of the maxers (in the min-maxer category) because there are many of us that are outside of those two areas.

Because I only play a few times a week, I enjoy working towards solo-ing or duo-ing content that is meant for more participants. [It was a setback when ESO made it so dungeons scaled, but I adjusted. ] I can't participate in guilds that are regular "I do trials," as I am not available often enough, so instead I find like-minded folks to work through content as a duo to experience the same challenge, and sometimes will join PUGs. Because I am a healer, I need enough sustain in my build that allows me to also DPS so I can make progress in the game when I am on my own.

This is not an "I will quit if..." post, but just a reminder that not all of us PVP regularly, and not all of us are running min-max I-can-DPS-without-worrying-about-sustain builds. Some of us are using the sustain options to keep the game interesting while we fulfill our core role (which in my case is healing).

I realize we haven't seen any balancing announcements yet. I hope that there is a plan for this. But I feel obligated to jump in and ask devs to please not nerf sustain to the point where healers must spend all of their time and energy into just being a support role. ESO was unique in that way. It is part of your appeal. Look at the gamut of players and not just the vocal 1% before introducing changes that will majorly impact those of us that have quietly enjoyed the game due to the way it has been implemented thus far.

Finally (because I dislike being the "this-sucks-without-a-solution" individual), my suggestion is to re-think this idea and possibly still implement it, but with an alteration. I think the options to help with sustain should still be there, but perhaps a greater % of diminishing returns should be introduced for folks that put CP points into a specific area. This way, healers and alternate races can still leverage the options to keep the diversity alive, but people who have been investing in those categories to be "gods" in PVP or leverage armor and race synergy to pwn everyone else will need to think harder before choosing to spend those last 15 CP points in that area. (Min-max vs. inefficiency of minute benefit...what do I choose?!?)

Finally (part II) I am a fan of removing CP points (or having a different CP point map) for PVP vs. PVE. I do PVP and would like to see it balanced more. However, I don't want you to do this at the expense of and enjoyment of working towards solo-ing and duo-ing content in PVE. It might be time for a divergence.

Perhaps you have considered all of this and have solutions. If not, please think about what I (and others) have said before moving forward.

wolfdoggie_ESO · March 2017

The new Magician doesn't sound very universal compared to the old version since I don't think Siphoning will effect PvE enemies? If that's correct then do they expect people to respec it out every time they want to switch between PvP/PvE?

Lylith · March 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

You're entire argument rests on your own self approved assumptions that people aren't learning the basics and coming up with your own statistics, You should read the above aforementioned comment here

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)
Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed

Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum

Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction

Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

Sure people come to the game to relax and play. That does not mean you should not learn the basics of a game because you just want to be strong from the beginning.

Just because you are casual does not mean that you don't need to learn things about the game. And just because you sub and have spent money on crowns does not mean you know those basics.

Sure the game is an escape, but this isn't hello kitty game or sesame Street. This is rated M. It requires a bit of effort to learn something about the game.

Please please stop with most people this most people that crap. It is, "in your own experience that many people are against the change." That is not true for everyone.

Sure casual make up a solid part of the game, but ignorant casuals do not. To be a casual does not mean you no nothing. A casual can still take time to learn the basics to succeed in majority of this game. Something many casuals do in my experience.

Again, simply thinking you do not need to learn these basics because you should just be able to do it is such an entitled stance. Grrrr I bought the game and now I have to learn the basics. The sky is falling.

Right now if you don't know the basics you will fail, so your argument is flawed.

I got in so many very bad groups, and let me tell you, if i wasn't carring them with very high dps they would have never gotten through the dungeon. So no, i don't think this game is too easy.

The removal of these 2 cp will just make things worse for everyone, it's just a stupid change.

I must say, if this is the work that streamers have done while they were at zos hq, i'm extremely disappointed.

It is the work of streamers.

ZOS has allways deligated to a bunch of people who they can use, both to evalulate high level play as people predicted they would, -and- have a greater chance to wrangle the playerbase into acceptance given streamer popularity.

i don't fancy being wrangled.

bitels · March 2017

We will do the same as with every other change done to the game over past 3 years- we will adapt. So lets just chill and wait for more information on the subject.

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

peacenote wrote: »

amasuriel wrote: »

They are obviously trying to make more build diversity but making it so you cannot wear all full damage sets and have good sustain, but my concern is that people will not adapt the way they think.

For every group than decides BiS is now lich and BSW instead of moondancer, there will be 2 more who demand (as if they don't now) 2 templar healers throwing Luminous Shards (the damage morph will not be an option any more) to make up for it.

It will mean healers other than templars will not be even remotely acceptable, and templars healers will be under enormous pressure to spam luminous shards as fast as possible.

It will also mean further distance between the ultra elite (who will keep their all DPS layouts and just demand more resources from their healers) and normal players (who will get used to having a damage set and a sustain set on them for 4 man, soloing etc). The gap between the top guilds and everyone else will grow even wider, as the playstyle and gear will be different.

This is my dread prediction if this goes live as is.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

You folks do realize that this hurts healers more than anyone right?

This will be a long post; it is what I do and why I don't often post on the forums. Feel free to ignore me if you'd prefer.

About me:
- I've been a healer across many games (Rift, Aion, SWTOR, ESO [since beta] and GW2...despite its "non-role" claim) and consider it my niche
- I call myself a self-coined (probably not really) term of "casual hardcore," which is a high intensity gamer who used to raid (my WoW days) and play every night, but can't spare the time anymore. I enjoy a challenge, but usually only get to play on weekends and, despite decent skills, often experience content later than others because it takes me longer to grind for BiS gear due to aforementioned time constraints

I've played ESO for a long time because I've truly enjoyed its evolution; I've been impressed with the consistent introduction of major changes. One Tamriel, the CP system, the theft system, the craft bag, the dye system, housing, even the Crown Store... people can complain all they like, but for me this game re-makes itself enough to keep me from jumping to another. It is my hobby. I pay a sub AND buy from the Crown Store because I believe in supporting endeavors that I think are worthwhile, and I am lucky enough that I can afford to do so. I also think that the fact that healers can contribute to DPS in this game makes it the best game for healers that I have ever experienced in an MMO.

I'm not panicking, and part of me thinks this change, just like all the others, will be just fine. However, I am appearing out of the woodwork and expressing some concern because I do feel that this announced change indicates a lack of planning and somewhat threatens my favored role and style of gameplay. I agree with the two folks that I have quoted. I have made a NB healer because Templar healing has become boring, and I will be disappointed beyond belief if that playstyle is reduced to non-viable.

I am worried that this proposed change will make healing less fun, and will result in a less flexible and less "One Tamriel-ish" type game than intended. I think the devs have the right motivation, but I want to take a moment and point out that no changes in the game should be made **just** for PVP (at the expense of PVE) and no changes should be made just because of the maxers (in the min-maxer category) because there are many of us that are outside of those two areas.

Because I only play a few times a week, I enjoy working towards solo-ing or duo-ing content that is meant for more participants. [It was a setback when ESO made it so dungeons scaled, but I adjusted. ] I can't participate in guilds that are regular "I do trials," as I am not available often enough, so instead I find like-minded folks to work through content as a duo to experience the same challenge, and sometimes will join PUGs. Because I am a healer, I need enough sustain in my build that allows me to also DPS so I can make progress in the game when I am on my own.

This is not an "I will quit if..." post, but just a reminder that not all of us PVP regularly, and not all of us are running min-max I-can-DPS-without-worrying-about-sustain builds. Some of us are using the sustain options to keep the game interesting while we fulfill our core role (which in my case is healing).

I realize we haven't seen any balancing announcements yet. I hope that there is a plan for this. But I feel obligated to jump in and ask devs to please not nerf sustain to the point where healers must spend all of their time and energy into just being a support role. ESO was unique in that way. It is part of your appeal. Look at the gamut of players and not just the vocal 1% before introducing changes that will majorly impact those of us that have quietly enjoyed the game due to the way it has been implemented thus far.

Finally (because I dislike being the "this-sucks-without-a-solution" individual), my suggestion is to re-think this idea and possibly still implement it, but with an alteration. I think the options to help with sustain should still be there, but perhaps a greater % of diminishing returns should be introduced for folks that put CP points into a specific area. This way, healers and alternate races can still leverage the options to keep the diversity alive, but people who have been investing in those categories to be "gods" in PVP or leverage armor and race synergy to pwn everyone else will need to think harder before choosing to spend those last 15 CP points in that area. (Min-max vs. inefficiency of minute benefit...what do I choose?!?)

Finally (part II) I am a fan of removing CP points (or having a different CP point map) for PVP vs. PVE. I do PVP and would like to see it balanced more. However, I don't want you to do this at the expense of and enjoyment of working towards solo-ing and duo-ing content in PVE. It might be time for a divergence.

Perhaps you have considered all of this and have solutions. If not, please think about what I (and others) have said before moving forward.

Well spoken. On all points.

cpuScientist · March 2017

You know they are also going to need siphoning attacks. Gonna buff their damage a little so they cannot complain. But they are going to super nerf the best thing PvP & PvE about the MagBlade...

JinMori · March 2017

About that quote i made about the streamers, i am not 100 % sure that it was them who suggested it, but i find it hard to believe that the didn't have anything to do with this since it happened just after they went at zos hq.
I was one who wasn't against streamers going at zos hq to test stuff, i actually said it was better this way, but if this is the work they have done then i'm thoroughly disappointed.

pieratsos wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

You're entire argument rests on your own self approved assumptions that people aren't learning the basics and coming up with your own statistics, You should read the above aforementioned comment here

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)
Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed

Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum

Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction

Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

Sure people come to the game to relax and play. That does not mean you should not learn the basics of a game because you just want to be strong from the beginning.

Just because you are casual does not mean that you don't need to learn things about the game. And just because you sub and have spent money on crowns does not mean you know those basics.

Sure the game is an escape, but this isn't hello kitty game or sesame Street. This is rated M. It requires a bit of effort to learn something about the game.

Please please stop with most people this most people that crap. It is, "in your own experience that many people are against the change." That is not true for everyone.

Sure casual make up a solid part of the game, but ignorant casuals do not. To be a casual does not mean you no nothing. A casual can still take time to learn the basics to succeed in majority of this game. Something many casuals do in my experience.

Again, simply thinking you do not need to learn these basics because you should just be able to do it is such an entitled stance. Grrrr I bought the game and now I have to learn the basics. The sky is falling.

Right now if you don't know the basics you will fail, so your argument is flawed.

I got in so many very bad groups, and let me tell you, if i wasn't carring them with very high dps they would have never gotten through the dungeon. So no, i don't think this game is too easy.

The removal of these 2 cp will just make things worse for everyone, it's just a stupid change.

I must say, if this is the work that streamers have done while they were at zos hq, i'm extremely disappointed.

That right there actually proves how easy the content is. You literally said im carrying alone a whole group in dungeons that were designed for 4 people. If those people dont even bother to learn the basics of the game they should not be able to complete it.

But this happens in every single mmo, if you have at least a decent healer, a sub par tank and a god awful dd, if you are very good you will be able to carry them through content. All it takes is one very good player to complete most dungeons, you actually wanna make content so hard for everyone that you have to be a very good player to complete it, and that's a god awful suggestion, you know why? Because not everyone has hours to spend into a game to become a better player, the people who don't have the time will just leave, and the game will die in a very short time.

Content is not easy.
Instead of nerfing make new harder content, like a completely new mode for the expert gamers.

pieratsos · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

About that quote i made about the streamers, i am not 100 % sure that it was them who suggested it, but i find it hard to believe that the didn't have anything to do with this since it happened just after they went at zos hq.
I was one who wasn't against streamers going at zos hq to test stuff, i actually said it was better this way, but if this is the work they have done then i'm thoroughly disappointed.

pieratsos wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

You're entire argument rests on your own self approved assumptions that people aren't learning the basics and coming up with your own statistics, You should read the above aforementioned comment here

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)
Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed

Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum

Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction

Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

Sure people come to the game to relax and play. That does not mean you should not learn the basics of a game because you just want to be strong from the beginning.

Just because you are casual does not mean that you don't need to learn things about the game. And just because you sub and have spent money on crowns does not mean you know those basics.

Sure the game is an escape, but this isn't hello kitty game or sesame Street. This is rated M. It requires a bit of effort to learn something about the game.

Please please stop with most people this most people that crap. It is, "in your own experience that many people are against the change." That is not true for everyone.

Sure casual make up a solid part of the game, but ignorant casuals do not. To be a casual does not mean you no nothing. A casual can still take time to learn the basics to succeed in majority of this game. Something many casuals do in my experience.

Again, simply thinking you do not need to learn these basics because you should just be able to do it is such an entitled stance. Grrrr I bought the game and now I have to learn the basics. The sky is falling.

Right now if you don't know the basics you will fail, so your argument is flawed.

I got in so many very bad groups, and let me tell you, if i wasn't carring them with very high dps they would have never gotten through the dungeon. So no, i don't think this game is too easy.

The removal of these 2 cp will just make things worse for everyone, it's just a stupid change.

I must say, if this is the work that streamers have done while they were at zos hq, i'm extremely disappointed.

That right there actually proves how easy the content is. You literally said im carrying alone a whole group in dungeons that were designed for 4 people. If those people dont even bother to learn the basics of the game they should not be able to complete it.

But this happens in every single mmo, if you have at least a decent healer, a sub par tank and a god awful dd, if you are very good you will be able to carry them through content. All it takes is one very good player to complete most dungeons, you actually wanna make content so hard for everyone that you have to be a very good player to complete it, and that's a god awful suggestion, you know why? Because not everyone has hours to spend into a game to become a better player, the people who don't have the time will just leave, and the game will die in a very short time.

Content is not easy.
Instead of nerfing make new harder content, like a completely new mode for the expert gamers.

A new harder mode for dungeons wouldnt be a bad idea. But what im trying to say is that the current content that we have is very easy. At least most of it. Just because some people cant do it it doesnt mean its not easy. And no, i dont want to make content hard enough for 4 good players to complete. I never said that. All i said is that the current content we have is very easy. We are not talking here about people getting good at the game. We are talking about people not even knowing the basics of the game and whenever anyone attempts to give advice to them they completely ignore him and insult him. With all due respect but such players shouldnt be able to complete the game. An awful tank, an awful healer and two awful DPS can still complete most content if they have a combined DPS of 20k. And to do that u dont need to be good. You just need to know the basics.

bunnydaisuki · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

You're entire argument rests on your own self approved assumptions that people aren't learning the basics and coming up with your own statistics, You should read the above aforementioned comment here

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)
Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed

Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum

Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction

Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

Sure people come to the game to relax and play. That does not mean you should not learn the basics of a game because you just want to be strong from the beginning.

Just because you are casual does not mean that you don't need to learn things about the game. And just because you sub and have spent money on crowns does not mean you know those basics.

Sure the game is an escape, but this isn't hello kitty game or sesame Street. This is rated M. It requires a bit of effort to learn something about the game.

Please please stop with most people this most people that crap. It is, "in your own experience that many people are against the change." That is not true for everyone.

Sure casual make up a solid part of the game, but ignorant casuals do not. To be a casual does not mean you no nothing. A casual can still take time to learn the basics to succeed in majority of this game. Something many casuals do in my experience.

Again, simply thinking you do not need to learn these basics because you should just be able to do it is such an entitled stance. Grrrr I bought the game and now I have to learn the basics. The sky is falling.

What does the M rating relates to player needing to learn the game mechanics?

Quoted from Wiki:

Games with this rating contain content which the ESRB believes is generally suitable for those aged 17 years and older; they can contain content with an impact higher than the "Teen" rating can accommodate, including intense and/or realistic portrayals of violence (such as blood, gore, mutilation, and depictions of death), stronger sexual themes and content, partial nudity, and more frequent use of strong language.

Based on your statement, I guess have to learn to be more violent and curse more vulgar language? Hmmm... Interesting.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

I already have enough issues getting people to do vet trials and get them done in timely manners.

So this is the game breaking change for me after 3 years of subbing and buying from the crown store.

I don't have any more patience or support for these kind of *** changes (yes I said ***, ***k your feelings)

So if this change goes live without Appropriately adjusting Content (since all content CURRENTLY TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THESE CHAMPION POINTS) to compensate for these nerfs since mechanics and enrage timers on bosses makes DPS stacking necessary. Then I'm really done and will be recommending the same to anyone who asks. Terrible customer relations and responses.

No you can't have my stuff, I'll be destroying everything and deactivating account.

I'll wait until an official announcement comes at PTS or until the actions patch notes release and if they have done nothing to rectify the issues laid here in this thread then I'll wish everyone well but will not be supporting this game or the company.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

I already have enough issues getting people to do vet trials and get them done in timely manners.

So this is the game breaking change for me after 3 years of subbing and buying from the crown store.

I don't have any more patience or support for these kind of *** changes (yes I said ***, ***k your feelings)

So if this change goes live without Appropriately adjusting Content (since all content CURRENTLY TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THESE CHAMPION POINTS) to compensate for these nerfs since mechanics and enrage timers on bosses makes DPS stacking necessary. Then I'm really done and will be recommending the same to anyone who asks. Terrible customer relations and responses.

No you can't have my stuff, I'll be destroying everything and deactivating account.

I'll wait until an official announcement comes at PTS or until the actions patch notes release and if they have done nothing to rectify the issues laid here in this thread then I'll wish everyone well but will not be supporting this game or the company.

not ALL content takes into account max cp. It takes into account up to CP 160.