IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

This thread has 28k views, still no word from devs. Gj ZOS, you beat the record in ignoring player base.

Apparently they mentioned it on eso live but did not go into detail explaining the real reasoning. We'll have to wait for an official announcement but they are certainly aware of this thread at this point

They actually explained the reasoning in depth. It was never intended that players should be able to only wear damage sets without giving any thought to sustain. With the constant increase in available cost reduction and regen CP this issue became more and more prevalent. They want the overall damage ceiling in PvE to drop significantly to emphasize mechanics as well as cooperative group play and accessibility and explicitly stated they don't want this game to be a competition of who can slot most damage sets and then mash his buttons fastest.

So all this talk about 40K DPS *** of finger-breaking keyboard hacking in "BiS" pure damage gear is exactly what they want to erase from this game.
Making space for well rounded and balanced approaches to character builds.

So basically bb hard mode rakkat.
They made this game all about damage, and not they take it away, absolute crap.

They can simply adjust PvE mechanics accordingly, though I seriously doubt the necessity.

Point is, nothing is going to change in good groups. The only thing that will actually change is:
1. We will have 1 cost reduction glyph (only on a Sorc anyway, the other classes can sustain just fine)
2. We will have to do a couple of heavy attacks (probably not going to happen cause who even does heavy attacks outside of trash pulls?)
3. We will have to ask for more orbs.
I don't know if you've done proper raiding with a proper team, but even on the worst sustain class (Sorc) you literally NEVER go below 80-90% magicka. The removal of cost reduction CP will make Sorcs sit at around 40-50%. Its no big deal. The DPS will be just as high, the sustain will be just as good. Is this hard? No. Is this more skillful? Not really, you're just popping orbs on cooldown instead of letting a few of them go past.

The problem is that people who aren't yet at this level of raiding, who don't have the group coordination, etc. they won't be able to clear content without sustain issues. And ZOS wanted to lower the ceiling and bring up the floor? Well, at this point you're doing the exact opposite, you're not lowering the ceiling, you're only lowering the floor (just like most changes in Homestead: proc sets, major force, etc.).

So this change will not make space for more well rounded and balanced approaches to DPS builds. It will just make life hard for those who don't have a proper group who will have to change their builds from damage dealing to sustain, which is never fun, especially for those who don't have high DPS to begin with.

PS: 40k DPS isn't about all about gear. Rotation, execution of said rotation and awareness is what makes a good DPS. Not gear.

Jitterbug wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)

• Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed
• Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum
• Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction
• Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

I feel you I do, but I'm sure you and your wife can rest easy. You will still be able to do your usual overland content just fine
This won't affect you as bad as you fear, I'm very certain.

Jitterbug wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)

• Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed
• Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum
• Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction
• Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

I feel you I do, but I'm sure you and your wife can rest easy. You will still be able to do your usual overland content just fine
This won't affect you as bad as you fear, I'm very certain.

Because Overland content is litterally all casuals care about and we should be thankfull our hardcore PVE/PVP overlords give us that much.

Change the channel.

Edit: Also, if you think we dont need minmaxed effectiveness to run delves, run vet Maz or Vet COS with DPS who randomize their bars. I'm -so- sure you'll do well.

The guy said delves. I responded. Why so aggressive?

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)

• Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed
• Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum
• Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction
• Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

This is not just to appease end game players people. The only reason this will really hurt players that run casual stuff is that it makes you learn the fundamentals of the game rather than just running through it. I'm talking the very basics here. You don't need to learn more then just the basics to complete overland and most dungeons in the game. Additionally, regardless of this change or not, those casuals don't run the tougher content anyway. So to say this hurts them with that is just crazy b/c they don't run it anyway.

Simply learning the fundamentals of the game allows you to complete damn near everything in the game. If your unwilling to learn the fundamentals of the game that is on you. Just as the game should not be balanced around the elite, it should not be balanced around people unwilling to learn the basics. The only requirement to complete 90% of this game. As is, you don't need to learn those basics.

A push to learn those basics is hardly game breaking.

You're entire argument rests on your own self approved assumptions that people aren't learning the basics and coming up with your own statistics, You should read the above aforementioned comment here

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

In laymans terms, they are balancing the endgame content around the few odd hundred or so players that can complete this content easily while the rest of the players (even if they have BIS gear good rotations and a good group) will not complete it no matter how hard they try because only Uber/masochistic players who want to spend every waking moment playing a dark souls type MMO for every single aspect of every fight will ever complete new content.

They never should have even considered players like alcast and guilds like hodor for input. They are the top less than 1 percenters and they should not be the baseline for the hardest content in the game just because they can do it on their terms with players who literally spend their time doing nothing but playing.

I'm not saying make the content easily attainable but not so ridiculous we are stuck in the situation we are in now where less than 5% of ESO's entire playerbase combined on all three platforms have ever even completed a Vet Trial. (this information is pulled from the trophies on consoles, PC's maybe be slightly different)

Very well said, and you're absolutely correct.

bunnydaisuki wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Already a thread going on about this in the Alliance War forum, but I think maybe it needs to be brought to the wider attention of PvE folks who don't visit there.

Screenshots from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB (not mine)

• Stamina and Magicka cost reduction CP apparently removed
• Mooncalf and Arcanist regen CP reduced to 15% maximum from 25% maximum
• Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction
• Magician replaced by Siphoner, which reduces target's regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy attacks

Not trying to offend anyone here, but this isn't going to be very good thing as far as I can tell.

Why so many changes in a game that was amazing to begin with? Are people trying to justify their jobs? Just wondering. Call me cynical if you want, but I love this game. It is a beautiful game, and it feel like it's headed south pretty rapidly.

I think most players felt the same. I just hope the developers will actually think twice before blindly implementing this into the game.

My wife and I feel that way.

We've looked at this proposed change, and if it goes through "as is", even though we've each spent over $1000 USD on this game (Crown Store purchases and two Sub's), we'd leave the game in a heartbeat.

We play the game to relax, not to face a soul-crushing wall of disappointment when just trying to run a *** Delve. And that's what this change would do to the game. Remove the sustain.cost reduction, thus making players choose between Sustain or actually being able to do damage (which no other MMORPG on the planet makes their Players choose between...), and suddenly the Delves will attain a level of difficulty that would bring the aforementioned frustration.

We play to relax and lose our real world problems by delving into a High-Fantasy world. We do not play video games to suffer the same amount of frustration as if we had second careers.

So, as I said; if this change goes through "as is", my wife and I are gone that very day.

And judging by the attitudes in Area Chat, these Forums, and other sites such as Reddit; many, many other Players would leave as well. The VAST majority of Players in this game are the Casuals. As I've said before in this thread; those Silent Casuals aren't going to suddenly inspired to increase their play time by hours on end and grindgrindgrind for BiS gear in order to match the new difficulty and mitigate the loss of their CP stats. They will just see the game difficulty ramp up overnight, they'll see that their characters no longer works even half as well as they did the previous day, and they'll just quit for a game that doesn't arbitrarily bork their characters.

Because the vast of the Player base plays for the same casual reasons that my wife and I play: to relax and have a nice romp in a High-Fantasy world.

About the only players who are in favor of this change are; those arrogant, worthless Streamers, and the players who think they're uber-l33t and run nothing but end-game PvE/PvP content. And as has been proven many times over in the past; an MMO that specifically fine tunes itself to the <1% of l33t end-game players, is shortly after a dead MMORPG, as all the Casual players will leave for other games.

Hyper-focusing on the l33t-end-game-level-Players does not pay the bills in an MMO. Making the game as accessible as possible for everyone does.

And this change will chase away ZOS's revenue as if the Casual Gamers were fleeing the plague. It's happened many times before, it will happen here in ESO as well.

Wrobel's decision will be a cancer on this game.

Sure people come to the game to relax and play. That does not mean you should not learn the basics of a game because you just want to be strong from the beginning.

Just because you are casual does not mean that you don't need to learn things about the game. And just because you sub and have spent money on crowns does not mean you know those basics.

Sure the game is an escape, but this isn't hello kitty game or sesame Street. This is rated M. It requires a bit of effort to learn something about the game.

Please please stop with most people this most people that crap. It is, "in your own experience that many people are against the change." That is not true for everyone.

Sure casual make up a solid part of the game, but ignorant casuals do not. To be a casual does not mean you no nothing. A casual can still take time to learn the basics to succeed in majority of this game. Something many casuals do in my experience.

Again, simply thinking you do not need to learn these basics because you should just be able to do it is such an entitled stance. Grrrr I bought the game and now I have to learn the basics. The sky is falling.