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Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind
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Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭bunnydaisuki wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »Wrobel be like
I reckon this is what's going on the devs' minds when they looking at the thread complaining about the lack of endgame contents.
This is probably exactly what they had in mind lol
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Y'know what'd put this into -perspective-, ZOS?
An answer.
I'd be totally cool if you wanted people to run cost reduc glyphs (I allready do) and are stat crunching in order to get the game to the point you want it to be. The problem, is your so long to respond to stuff outside it's carefull release date.
This has allways been our problem with you. Even a 'this is still in the works' would be nice, it lets us know your on the phone, guys.6 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Y'know what'd put this into -perspective-, ZOS?
An answer.
I'd be totally cool if you wanted people to run cost reduc glyphs (I allready do) and are stat crunching in order to get the game to the point you want it to be. The problem, is your so long to respond to stuff outside it's carefull release date.
This has allways been our problem with you. Even a 'this is still in the works' would be nice, it lets us know your on the phone, guys.
11 pages of Rage and Confusion and still nothing. It's becoming a bit of a norm for them to just simply ignore issues that they don't feel comfortable answering, or rather can't answer because of 1 of 3 reasons
1. They don't know, with it still in the works and isn't set in stone (possible, but doesn't excuse the zero Replies or at least a statement)
2. They are trying to come up with an answer to placate while still not giving any solid answers and will wait till the last day to show developers comments. (likely)
3. Or (my theory) they don't care enough to provide an answer and will simply ignore this thread until it slowly dies so they don't have to deal with it anymore.9 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Y'know what'd put this into -perspective-, ZOS?
An answer.
I'd be totally cool if you wanted people to run cost reduc glyphs (I allready do) and are stat crunching in order to get the game to the point you want it to be. The problem, is your so long to respond to stuff outside it's carefull release date.
This has allways been our problem with you. Even a 'this is still in the works' would be nice, it lets us know your on the phone, guys.
11 pages of Rage and Confusion and still nothing. It's becoming a bit of a norm for them to just simply ignore issues that they don't feel comfortable answering, or rather can't answer because of 1 of 3 reasons
1. They don't know, with it still in the works and isn't set in stone (possible, but doesn't excuse the zero Replies or at least a statement)
2. They are trying to come up with an answer to placate while still not giving any solid answers and will wait till the last day to show developers comments. (likely)
3. Or (my theory) they don't care enough to provide an answer and will simply ignore this thread until it slowly dies so they don't have to deal with it anymore.
And this is why I encourage most people to find another MMO.
Honestly, I dont reccomend this game anymore.5 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You act as if removing the soft caps didn't make previously viable sets unviable either. I don't see why I should be concerned which precious set isn't going to be BIS when we are discussing the issue of game balance and play style diversity. I guess you couldn't give a rats ass about hybrid builds being viable, but your personal preference does not magically make being shoehorned into fewer play styles a good thing.
lmao, if you add soft caps in the game right now you are basically killing off about 40 or so sets and will pretty much shift all magicka and stamina builds to focus on one set to be the saving grace, racials will be useless too. But at least we get play it your way hybrid builds, right?HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You mean like how soft caps allowed hybrid builds and other novel build styles without completely gimping you for not just building in the direction of min maxing stat/dmg/crit/pen?
softcaps are the worst thing that could happen to ESO right now. Literally kills build and class diversity.milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »Soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, and soft caps.
Oh, did I mention soft caps?
Yeah, soft caps totally kill diversity
Yeah, soft caps totally kill diversity.
You guys are being overly simplistic with your argument. Similarity in character sheet stats =/= no diversity in builds. The soft caps being what they were meant that many of what would today be considered unoptimal sets were in fact viable because you would still reach the soft caps. Soft caps are not hard caps. Once you were soft capped in the key areas you could either push further against the diminishing returns or spec some into your utility stats (stam/stam regen for mag builds, ect).FriedEggSandwich wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You mean like how soft caps allowed hybrid builds and other novel build styles without completely gimping you for not just building in the direction of min maxing stat/dmg/crit/pen?
softcaps are the worst thing that could happen to ESO right now. Literally kills build and class diversity.milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »Soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, and soft caps.
Oh, did I mention soft caps?
Yeah, soft caps totally kill diversity
This is what soft caps look like:
Soft capped health, magicka, spell damage, spell resistance and magicka recovery. Everyone had these stats because they were so easy to obtain. That isn't diverse.
Removing soft caps has simply pushed "build variety" in the direction of building to extremes:- Max primary stat + dmg + crit on dps builds
- Max health trollplars
- Max regen rolly pollies
- Max mitigation troll tanks
Let's take a look and see the different playstyles of mag sorc that were viable in competitive pvp up through 1.5:- Standard Destr/Resto mag sorc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJFfcGbK7mk - 2 hander hybrid mag sorc on Skaffa's end (Sabre Ali did the same thing, but don't have videos)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YUOJhejA28 - High stam regen Resto dps bar mag sorc (this was after the 10% dmg passive was removed from resto)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ8xbF9ossk - Tanky heavy armor S/B mag sorc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-8ZGHxGI4o
Removing soft caps + adding the CP system and nerf after nerf after nerf that have been slapped on as bandaid fixes for that mess have succeeded in pushing us to just having destro & dual wield playstyles left, with dual wield losing out more and more just about every update (poisons, 8% dmg boost on destro, incoming siphoning CP, ect).
Please, go ahead and explain to me how I have more options in my playstyle with the current system?
Damn... I miss those glorious 1.5 days badly... And to believe how dramatic things have changed since then (regarding build design). Wow... Just... Wow...4 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You act as if removing the soft caps didn't make previously viable sets unviable either. I don't see why I should be concerned which precious set isn't going to be BIS when we are discussing the issue of game balance and play style diversity. I guess you couldn't give a rats ass about hybrid builds being viable, but your personal preference does not magically make being shoehorned into fewer play styles a good thing.
lmao, if you add soft caps in the game right now you are basically killing off about 40 or so sets and will pretty much shift all magicka and stamina builds to focus on one set to be the saving grace, racials will be useless too. But at least we get play it your way hybrid builds, right?HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You mean like how soft caps allowed hybrid builds and other novel build styles without completely gimping you for not just building in the direction of min maxing stat/dmg/crit/pen?
softcaps are the worst thing that could happen to ESO right now. Literally kills build and class diversity.milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »Soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, and soft caps.
Oh, did I mention soft caps?
Yeah, soft caps totally kill diversity
Yeah, soft caps totally kill diversity.
You guys are being overly simplistic with your argument. Similarity in character sheet stats =/= no diversity in builds. The soft caps being what they were meant that many of what would today be considered unoptimal sets were in fact viable because you would still reach the soft caps. Soft caps are not hard caps. Once you were soft capped in the key areas you could either push further against the diminishing returns or spec some into your utility stats (stam/stam regen for mag builds, ect).FriedEggSandwich wrote: »HoloYoitsu wrote: »
You mean like how soft caps allowed hybrid builds and other novel build styles without completely gimping you for not just building in the direction of min maxing stat/dmg/crit/pen?
softcaps are the worst thing that could happen to ESO right now. Literally kills build and class diversity.milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »Soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, soft caps, and soft caps.
Oh, did I mention soft caps?
Yeah, soft caps totally kill diversity
This is what soft caps look like:
Soft capped health, magicka, spell damage, spell resistance and magicka recovery. Everyone had these stats because they were so easy to obtain. That isn't diverse.
Removing soft caps has simply pushed "build variety" in the direction of building to extremes:- Max primary stat + dmg + crit on dps builds
- Max health trollplars
- Max regen rolly pollies
- Max mitigation troll tanks
Let's take a look and see the different playstyles of mag sorc that were viable in competitive pvp up through 1.5:- Standard Destr/Resto mag sorchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJFfcGbK7mk
- 2 hander hybrid mag sorc on Skaffa's end (Sabre Ali did the same thing, but don't have videos)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YUOJhejA28
- High stam regen Resto dps bar mag sorc (this was after the 10% dmg passive was removed from resto)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ8xbF9ossk
- Tanky heavy armor S/B mag sorchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-8ZGHxGI4o
Removing soft caps + adding the CP system and nerf after nerf after nerf that have been slapped on as bandaid fixes for that mess have succeeded in pushing us to just having destro & dual wield playstyles left, with dual wield losing out more and more just about every update (poisons, 8% dmg boost on destro, incoming siphoning CP, ect).
Please, go ahead and explain to me how I have more options in my playstyle with the current system?
Damn... I miss those glorious 1.5 days badly... And to believe how dramatic things have changed since then (regarding build design). Wow... Just... Wow...
I know, right? Honestly, I wish I took advantage of it when it lasted.1 -
Brutusmax1mus✭✭✭✭✭
✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »While this done to directly hurt heavy armor builds.
If anything it would seem at first glance to make heavy armor even more popular than it already is, since sustain comes from constitution passive more than recovery stat.
If they want to improve the balance to armor types, I imagine they will either buff light and medium passives or slight nerf to heavy passives.
At any rate, the update is still a long ways out, and this is not the complete picture of whatever balance changes are planned.
.
What he means is it will make the passives from light and medium much much much more appealing since it will impact you much more than Constitution.0 -
Dao_Jones✭✭✭I guess I'm actually indifferent to this change, because I don't play at a high enough level where this will ever matter to me.
I'm more annoyed that I came back to the game, and now racials matter. Racials should absolutely NOT matter; something like character appearance should always be driven by player choice - not mandated by the fear of making your character irrelevant for end-game content. That is an absolutely horrible choice ZOS has forced on players. (And one that has no precedent in previous ES games.)
...but that's not really germane to this thread, I guess. (Except that they'll matter even more, if one of the critical sources for resource management will be racial passives. I suppose I'll be glad I picked Breton for my new MagSorc, instead of Dunmer.Edited by Dao_Jones on March 14, 2017 3:07PMYou've played with the best... now play with the rest!
www.unrepentantgaming.com. Pants off - game on!4 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭
^ This. "Build diversity" today means "dual destro staff for Mag DPS, and dual wield daggers for Stam DPS". Every build maximizes their resource stat, with 0 into the other stat or health.HoloYoitsu wrote: »Removing soft caps + adding the CP system and nerf after nerf after nerf that have been slapped on as bandaid fixes for that mess have succeeded in pushing us to just having destro & dual wield playstyles left, with dual wield losing out more and more just about every update (poisons, 8% dmg boost on destro, incoming siphoning CP, ect).
And worst of all, racials matter. Racials should absolutely NOT matter; something like character appearance should always be driven by player choice - not mandated by the fear of making your character irrelevant for end-game content. That is an absolutely horrible choice ZOS has forced on players. (And one that has no precedent in previous ES games.)
The build diversity choice I agree with
However the while the racials do give Buffs, they aren't make or breaking builds. You can literally do anything in the game (provided your gear, CP and rotation is good) And your racial affinity won't make a big difference in your overall DPS. Maybe 1 or 2k difference in very specific setups such as a Mag Dk Dunmer.
But otherwise they are not significant
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Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭I'm wondering if this was in when ZoS invited all those players for their summit.
From what I understand they said the new stuff was pretty good. They are on a non-disclosure for who knows how long now. If these changes were in, there most likely will be some compensation happening elsewhere. We just don't know yet, and the streamers etc. can't talk about it yet. /shrug
IMO though, bad changes all around. Too many builds will be destroyed by this. More so in PvP, but for everyone in general. 10% less regen we can live with. But an innate poison CP? That's just taking it too far. No Mag or Stam cost reduction? Ok, but let's hope every single ability in game is going to go down significantly in cost to cast then."The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭I wonder how many pages, comments, and plea's we'll have to go through to get some kind of acknowledgement or statement on this issue.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Some clarification on this would be appreciated in some shape or form.1 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭I guess I'm actually indifferent to this change, because I don't play at a high enough level where this will ever matter to me.
I'm more annoyed that I came back to the game, and now racials matter. Racials should absolutely NOT matter; something like character appearance should always be driven by player choice - not mandated by the fear of making your character irrelevant for end-game content. That is an absolutely horrible choice ZOS has forced on players. (And one that has no precedent in previous ES games.)
...but that's not really germane to this thread, I guess. (Except that they'll matter even more, if one of the critical sources for resource management will be racial passives. I suppose I'll be glad I picked Breton for my new MagSorc, instead of Dunmer.
Its an MMO of course they are going to matter. And while race didnt "matter" in single player Elder Scrolls games, there was certainly "benefits" to certain races. Altmer and Breton got more Magicka in games. Orcs had that crazy once a day power in Skyrim. So yeah racials should matter. Plus with race change being 3000 crowns its not going away any time soon.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »I guess I'm actually indifferent to this change, because I don't play at a high enough level where this will ever matter to me.
I'm more annoyed that I came back to the game, and now racials matter. Racials should absolutely NOT matter; something like character appearance should always be driven by player choice - not mandated by the fear of making your character irrelevant for end-game content. That is an absolutely horrible choice ZOS has forced on players. (And one that has no precedent in previous ES games.)
...but that's not really germane to this thread, I guess. (Except that they'll matter even more, if one of the critical sources for resource management will be racial passives. I suppose I'll be glad I picked Breton for my new MagSorc, instead of Dunmer.
Its an MMO of course they are going to matter. And while race didnt "matter" in single player Elder Scrolls games, there was certainly "benefits" to certain races. Altmer and Breton got more Magicka in games. Orcs had that crazy once a day power in Skyrim. So yeah racials should matter. Plus with race change being 3000 crowns its not going away any time soon.
I direct you to WoW, where Racials largely didn't, outside of PVP. And even when it did it was one racial for PVP.
They shouldn't to the point where if you pick a different race you fail. Period.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I say an 10% more magic is significant, in an setting where damage scales from max magic.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »
^ This. "Build diversity" today means "dual destro staff for Mag DPS, and dual wield daggers for Stam DPS". Every build maximizes their resource stat, with 0 into the other stat or health.HoloYoitsu wrote: »Removing soft caps + adding the CP system and nerf after nerf after nerf that have been slapped on as bandaid fixes for that mess have succeeded in pushing us to just having destro & dual wield playstyles left, with dual wield losing out more and more just about every update (poisons, 8% dmg boost on destro, incoming siphoning CP, ect).
And worst of all, racials matter. Racials should absolutely NOT matter; something like character appearance should always be driven by player choice - not mandated by the fear of making your character irrelevant for end-game content. That is an absolutely horrible choice ZOS has forced on players. (And one that has no precedent in previous ES games.)
The build diversity choice I agree with
However the while the racials do give Buffs, they aren't make or breaking builds. You can literally do anything in the game (provided your gear, CP and rotation is good) And your racial affinity won't make a big difference in your overall DPS. Maybe 1 or 2k difference in very specific setups such as a Mag Dk Dunmer.
But otherwise they are not significant
And its generates more difference in end game than in previous single player elder scroll games with the exception of Altmer in Morrowind, on the other hand magic damage in Morrowind was scaled on skills not max magic so the bonus was that they could cast longer before using potions.
On the other hand you are right about it not making or breaking an build however people with no option about race will follow the build guides, its an reason why its so many altmers around, nerfing the racial bonuses to the half would not help that issue as people would still min max.
Best option back then was to focus on spell crit and spell damage after your magic started getting capped.
Regen was also an serious issue.
And no going back to soft caps will probably screw up stuff even more at this stage.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I say an 10% more magic is significant, in an setting where damage scales from max magic.Nelson_Rebel wrote: »
^ This. "Build diversity" today means "dual destro staff for Mag DPS, and dual wield daggers for Stam DPS". Every build maximizes their resource stat, with 0 into the other stat or health.HoloYoitsu wrote: »Removing soft caps + adding the CP system and nerf after nerf after nerf that have been slapped on as bandaid fixes for that mess have succeeded in pushing us to just having destro & dual wield playstyles left, with dual wield losing out more and more just about every update (poisons, 8% dmg boost on destro, incoming siphoning CP, ect).
And worst of all, racials matter. Racials should absolutely NOT matter; something like character appearance should always be driven by player choice - not mandated by the fear of making your character irrelevant for end-game content. That is an absolutely horrible choice ZOS has forced on players. (And one that has no precedent in previous ES games.)
The build diversity choice I agree with
However the while the racials do give Buffs, they aren't make or breaking builds. You can literally do anything in the game (provided your gear, CP and rotation is good) And your racial affinity won't make a big difference in your overall DPS. Maybe 1 or 2k difference in very specific setups such as a Mag Dk Dunmer.
But otherwise they are not significant
And its generates more difference in end game than in previous single player elder scroll games with the exception of Altmer in Morrowind, on the other hand magic damage in Morrowind was scaled on skills not max magic so the bonus was that they could cast longer before using potions.
On the other hand you are right about it not making or breaking an build however people with no option about race will follow the build guides, its an reason why its so many altmers around, nerfing the racial bonuses to the half would not help that issue as people would still min max.
Best option back then was to focus on spell crit and spell damage after your magic started getting capped.
Regen was also an serious issue.
And no going back to soft caps will probably screw up stuff even more at this stage.
Yes to an extent that max stat increase is a better options in certain builds. The biggest offender with racials I would assume you are talking about would be the High Elf. As yes it is the best Magic user for most any Mag build. But any setup could do just as effectively with less damage, but would have other benefits.
I don't personally think the racials should be changed and they are good where they are.
Edited by Nelson_Rebel on March 14, 2017 3:47PM0 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭The amount of people crying, omg just leave and play something else.
Oh mimiimi, i have to run now 2 reduced cost glyphs, oh mimimi, my DPS goes down 3k.
Really, u guys are so *** annoying, u have no idea what zos did plan, nor what exactly is coming, but better create drama3 -
Asgari✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm wondering if this was in when ZoS invited all those players for their summit.
From what I understand they said the new stuff was pretty good. They are on a non-disclosure for who knows how long now. If these changes were in, there most likely will be some compensation happening elsewhere. We just don't know yet, and the streamers etc. can't talk about it yet. /shrug
IMO though, bad changes all around. Too many builds will be destroyed by this. More so in PvP, but for everyone in general. 10% less regen we can live with. But an innate poison CP? That's just taking it too far. No Mag or Stam cost reduction? Ok, but let's hope every single ability in game is going to go down significantly in cost to cast then.
Most if not all of this was in when they went. I really hope they go back and look at base costs and reduce them after they raised them from CP.Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
Princess Asgari | Sorc
Asgari | NB
-Asgari | Stamplar
Ariana Kishi | DK | True Liberator of Haderus
Banner Down!
No Mercy
Youtube: Asgari0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭The amount of people crying, omg just leave and play something else.
Oh mimiimi, i have to run now 2 reduced cost glyphs, oh mimimi, my DPS goes down 3k.
Really, u guys are so *** annoying, u have no idea what zos did plan, nor what exactly is coming, but better create drama
1. We have literal screenshots of what they are planning.
2. Are you a child? Who actually whines about other people conversing about an issue they concerned about. Seriously how conceited do you have to be for that kind of high horse. I can only imagine.
3. If you don't like the conversation, in your own words, Just LEAVE. Clearly Tons of players feel this is a huge issue that should be addressed so why the hell do you care?
The fact you took the time to QQ on an online forums because other people are concerned about it is sad.
Edited by Nelson_Rebel on March 14, 2017 4:05PM15 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »Honestly sustain took for me his biggest hit at the introduction of Imperial City (and especially for me as healer for almost 3 years) :
- Willpower and Agility sets
- Molag Kena monster set
- SPC set, must have for healers with no regen on it
- and the nail in the coffin, the values on the enchant between VR14 and VR16 (legendary enchants ):- VR14 Cost Reduction Glyph was 200, went to 199, VR16 is 203 1.5/2% increase
- VR14 Regen Glyps is 163, VR16 is 169 4%increase
- VR14 Spell/Weapon Power Glyph is 133, VR16 is 174 31% increase
And now, because of the Power creep, they intend to nerf all the corresponding CP ?
I really hope not because as healer i'm already feeling as a living battery (bubbles, more bubbles please
), forced to use some sets for a long time now, didn't craft a single set for my healer since i got SPC (IC went out in august 2015 !), not using a single monster set on my healer (no good monster set for healing, and with mandatory resto/destro staff, no room for them).
And to add to this, healing passives and healing Ultimate of the Warden seems better than the Templar ones (i have to wait to see the morphs of the skills to fully judge). At first view the only skills who don't have a better version for PvE HM trials are Shards and BoL (less sure for this one)
The only thing that i have to say about this is: i don't really think that eso has such a big power creep problem, with most groups vet dungeons will provide a decently difficult challenge, some more then others.
Only with the best groups you will be able to roflstomp dungeons and normal trials, but let's be fair here, there's not a single mmo where a group composed by the best players is not able to destroy content. And vet trials still provide a decent challenge even to the best players in eso, so no i don't think that power creep is a problem right now.
Don't think there is a power creep?
Last year at this time I was doing half the DPS I am now and it's not like ZoS buffs these dungeons to ccompensate (in fact they don't; they nerf them). If I join a PuG group we will have zero problems running SpindleclutcH II or Banished Cells II or any of the "hard" orignal dungeons. I will get the speed run and most likely the flawless just from pugging. There was a time when the Praxin fight was legit challenging, Bloodspawn was a group DPS check as opposed to a target skeleton, and Rilus's hard mode was actually hard. All that has become trivialized even by PuG groups because we are so ridiculously powerful.
And that's not mentioning PvP. If I, or anyone else who knows what they are doing, re not Stuned + burst or Zerged down, we don't die. We will heal up to full ... and have to because the burst damage everyone puts out is insane (sorry mDKs, you're not invited to this club).
It's not just the best players who are destroying content and making PvP a joke. All it takes is a clue (i.e. Google search engine) and enough CP and even mediocre players laugh at Undaunted dungeons bosses and can wipe PvP raids with the destro ultimates.
That is a crazy power creep.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
Absalon✭✭✭It seems now we might just have a reason to buy Morrowind Collector's Edition. Seducer's Morag Tong style here I go. Good play, ZOS.CP 810 (PC-NA)
Harnak - Magplar Healer (PVE)
Gavin - Magsorc DPS (PVE)
Manthys - Magplar DPS (PVP)
Adrya - Stamblade DPS (PVP)
Targesh - Stamplar DPS (PVP)0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭So they're buffing Stamsorcs again?"IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations2 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »Honestly sustain took for me his biggest hit at the introduction of Imperial City (and especially for me as healer for almost 3 years) :
- Willpower and Agility sets
- Molag Kena monster set
- SPC set, must have for healers with no regen on it
- and the nail in the coffin, the values on the enchant between VR14 and VR16 (legendary enchants ):- VR14 Cost Reduction Glyph was 200, went to 199, VR16 is 203 1.5/2% increase
- VR14 Regen Glyps is 163, VR16 is 169 4%increase
- VR14 Spell/Weapon Power Glyph is 133, VR16 is 174 31% increase
And now, because of the Power creep, they intend to nerf all the corresponding CP ?
I really hope not because as healer i'm already feeling as a living battery (bubbles, more bubbles please ), forced to use some sets for a long time now, didn't craft a single set for my healer since i got SPC (IC went out in august 2015 !), not using a single monster set on my healer (no good monster set for healing, and with mandatory resto/destro staff, no room for them).
And to add to this, healing passives and healing Ultimate of the Warden seems better than the Templar ones (i have to wait to see the morphs of the skills to fully judge). At first view the only skills who don't have a better version for PvE HM trials are Shards and BoL (less sure for this one)
The only thing that i have to say about this is: i don't really think that eso has such a big power creep problem, with most groups vet dungeons will provide a decently difficult challenge, some more then others.
Only with the best groups you will be able to roflstomp dungeons and normal trials, but let's be fair here, there's not a single mmo where a group composed by the best players is not able to destroy content. And vet trials still provide a decent challenge even to the best players in eso, so no i don't think that power creep is a problem right now.
Don't think there is a power creep?
Last year at this time I was doing half the DPS I am now and it's not like ZoS buffs these dungeons to ccompensate (in fact they don't; they nerf them). If I join a PuG group we will have zero problems running SpindleclutcH II or Banished Cells II or any of the "hard" orignal dungeons. I will get the speed run and most likely the flawless just from pugging. There was a time when the Praxin fight was legit challenging, Bloodspawn was a group DPS check as opposed to a target skeleton, and Rilus's hard mode was actually hard. All that has become trivialized even by PuG groups because we are so ridiculously powerful.
And that's not mentioning PvP. If I, or anyone else who knows what they are doing, re not Stuned + burst or Zerged down, we don't die. We will heal up to full ... and have to because the burst damage everyone puts out is insane (sorry mDKs, you're not invited to this club).
It's not just the best players who are destroying content and making PvP a joke. All it takes is a clue (i.e. Google search engine) and enough CP and even mediocre players laugh at Undaunted dungeons bosses and can wipe PvP raids with the destro ultimates.
That is a crazy power creep.
You must be getting lucky with pug groups. I still get into groups that wipe on those bosses.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP1 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Still no words? This is possibly the single biggest negative change to cp and silence is a bad way to maintain our trust in you guys.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP8 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭Another pve nerf because of stupid pvp disbalances... goodluck sustaining with a dunmer dps character with such changes.
I wish ZOS could separate how CP works in cyrodiil and pve zones, or just disable CP permanently in pvp and leave it for pve.8 -
WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭A few of my guildies who are at the CP cap have been removing all their CP (and food plus no potions) and running vMA...
This has got me thinking about removing all of my cp as well. That should be interesting for ZOS; when they do their data collection and analysis, they'll start to see people at and beyond the CP cap with no CP allotted... in fact, I like the message that sends. I'm going to go remove it all now.The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?0 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I assume that the information shared was obtained from Pax East convention and so I am definitely holding my judgment until Morrowind hits PTS. Usually at these conventions ZOS and, I assume, other companies experiment with ideas to see how well/badly they go over. It's easy testing because you know at least some will play your game and most will provide feedback.
IF this does hit PTS then it will be interesting to say the least. I don't get why they keep messing with things that don't need to be messed with and it just goes to show that PvE will always be affected by PvP and vice versa. I don't know how they can separate they the two. Maybe ZOS can come up with two different CP systems?
IF this goes in PTS like this and they keep doing things like this the game will never be balanced, or at least as close as it could be. Truthfully the game will never be 100% balanced but it definitely could be closer but not when they keep drastically changing/nerfing things without addressing other current balancing issues first. It's like a teeter-totter that ZOS just keep over loading up one side at a time versus finding a healthy balance that let's it go back and forth on it's own.Edited by OtarTheMad on March 14, 2017 6:45PM3 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »I assume that the information shared was obtained from Pax East convention and so I am definitely holding my judgment until Morrowind hits PTS. Usually at these conventions ZOS and, I assume, other companies experiment with ideas to see how well/badly they go over. It's easy testing because you know at least some will play your game and most will provide feedback.
IF this does hit PTS then it will be interesting to say the least. I don't get why they keep messing with things that don't need to be messed with and it just goes to show that PvE will always be affected by PvP and vice versa. I don't know how they can separate they the two. Maybe ZOS can come up with two different CP systems?
IF this goes in PTS like this and they keep doing things like this the game will never be balanced, or at least as close as it could be. Truthfully the game will never be 100% balanced but it definitely could be closer but not when they keep drastically changing/nerfing things without addressing other current balancing issues first. It's like a teeter-totter that ZOS just keep over loading up one side at a time versus finding a healthy balance that let's it go back and forth on it's own.
20 years in MMO history, prove that IF you wait to react until they are on PTS, then you are BONED.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO8 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Agreed.OtarTheMad wrote: »I assume that the information shared was obtained from Pax East convention and so I am definitely holding my judgment until Morrowind hits PTS. Usually at these conventions ZOS and, I assume, other companies experiment with ideas to see how well/badly they go over. It's easy testing because you know at least some will play your game and most will provide feedback.
IF this does hit PTS then it will be interesting to say the least. I don't get why they keep messing with things that don't need to be messed with and it just goes to show that PvE will always be affected by PvP and vice versa. I don't know how they can separate they the two. Maybe ZOS can come up with two different CP systems?
IF this goes in PTS like this and they keep doing things like this the game will never be balanced, or at least as close as it could be. Truthfully the game will never be 100% balanced but it definitely could be closer but not when they keep drastically changing/nerfing things without addressing other current balancing issues first. It's like a teeter-totter that ZOS just keep over loading up one side at a time versus finding a healthy balance that let's it go back and forth on it's own.
20 years in MMO history, prove that IF you wait to react until they are on PTS, then you are BONED.
If we don't show our displeasure now, and this change to the CP constellations makes it to PTS; then it will almost assuredly make it to the Live servers.
Then, if they ever reverse it, it won't be until an unknown, distant point in the future.
Which means it will be around for a long, long time.
We have to show them now, that we're not OK with these changes.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!16 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭12 pages and counting
Still nothing
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_TristanK
Pulling out as many names for some statement to the original posters thread
Is there any verification that this is what the developers are going to do? Is it being actively worked on and are considerations being made to player input thus far? Or no comment?
Any response at all4
