Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind

Uriel_Nocturne

They definitely need to take in more Player feedback than just those worthless streamers.

If this change goes through, it will (as I and many others have mentioned previously) destroy most of the Magicka builds in the game.

And before anyone goes off on how "forum comments are from the vast minority who take the time to come to the forums, most players just play and never visit the forums"...

Sure, but those players also don't min/max and probably don't have the slightest idea what Sets might mitigate the loss of their sustain/regen. Those players also don't really go for entirely rebuilding a Magicka character from the ground up.

Those very same players, if this change goes through, would see their sustain and regen take a steaming dump, realize what happened, and would just stop playing in favor of other games. Because those other players aren't as "invested" as we are here on the Forums. They're far more likely to simply go play another game rather than spend the time/Gold to research new character builds, grind for gear/equipment to fix the loss of sustain/regen, and then hit the game hard enough to get all those points accomplished.

The sheer numerical hit to ESO's population from the "casual" gamer ditching ESO because their characters are no longer viable would be (almost literally) world-shattering for Tamriel.

So, yeah; ZOS definitely needs to include Player feedback from the regular, average player base before instituting an idea this atrocious.

Asgari

Removing reduced cost cp and not reducing skill base costs will ruin the combat system. An incredible amount of skills have all been adjusted in base cost increase due to CP. On top of stacking costs for some items.

Just simply removing these two items will not fix anything. It will make combat in both pve and pvp worse off in the sense that it will be even less fun.

JinMori

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

They definitely need to take in more Player feedback than just those worthless streamers.

If this change goes through, it will (as I and many others have mentioned previously) destroy most of the Magicka builds in the game.

And before anyone goes off on how "forum comments are from the vast minority who take the time to come to the forums, most players just play and never visit the forums"...

Sure, but those players also don't min/max and probably don't have the slightest idea what Sets might mitigate the loss of their sustain/regen. Those players also don't really go for entirely rebuilding a Magicka character from the ground up.

Those very same players, if this change goes through, would see their sustain and regen take a steaming dump, realize what happened, and would just stop playing in favor of other games. Because those other players aren't as "invested" as we are here on the Forums. They're far more likely to simply go play another game rather than spend the time/Gold to research new character builds, grind for gear/equipment to fix the loss of sustain/regen, and then hit the game hard enough to get all those points accomplished.

The sheer numerical hit to ESO's population from the "casual" gamer ditching ESO because their characters are no longer viable would be (almost literally) world-shattering for Tamriel.

So, yeah; ZOS definitely needs to include Player feedback from the regular, average player base before instituting an idea this atrocious.

This time i have to agree with you, these changes are ***, if this goes through, you can say goodbye to mag dk, mag sorc and probably also templar sustain.
Same for stamina. not only that, but they replaced those useful cp with cancerous cp like siphoner, I swear to god if this change goes through without anything to balance it out, i will probably leave the game.

AhPook_Is_Here

If they are ever going to make regen sets useful for something other than upgrade matts or no CP campaigns they need to do this. Their CP system was poorly designed and they really should have thought the whole thing out better to begin with. They didn't, and now they need to go back and fix things players have gotten used to.

People need to remember the reason why skills aren't back-loaded with cool-downs, and infrequently front-loaded with warm ups is because resource pools are supposed to limit outlandish spaming of a small range of abilities.

Uriel_Nocturne

JinMori wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

They definitely need to take in more Player feedback than just those worthless streamers.

If this change goes through, it will (as I and many others have mentioned previously) destroy most of the Magicka builds in the game.

And before anyone goes off on how "forum comments are from the vast minority who take the time to come to the forums, most players just play and never visit the forums"...

Sure, but those players also don't min/max and probably don't have the slightest idea what Sets might mitigate the loss of their sustain/regen. Those players also don't really go for entirely rebuilding a Magicka character from the ground up.

Those very same players, if this change goes through, would see their sustain and regen take a steaming dump, realize what happened, and would just stop playing in favor of other games. Because those other players aren't as "invested" as we are here on the Forums. They're far more likely to simply go play another game rather than spend the time/Gold to research new character builds, grind for gear/equipment to fix the loss of sustain/regen, and then hit the game hard enough to get all those points accomplished.

The sheer numerical hit to ESO's population from the "casual" gamer ditching ESO because their characters are no longer viable would be (almost literally) world-shattering for Tamriel.

So, yeah; ZOS definitely needs to include Player feedback from the regular, average player base before instituting an idea this atrocious.

This time i have to agree with you, these changes are ***, if this goes through, you can say goodbye to mag dk, mag sorc and probably also templar sustain.
Same for stamina. not only that, but they replaced those useful cp with cancerous cp like siphoner, I swear to god if this change goes through without anything to balance it out, i will probably leave the game.

Yeah, you and I rarely agree on things like this, but in this we're on the same page.

My wife and I both only run Magicka Characters. She's got a couple of Magicka Sorcs, and I have a Magicka Sorc, and Main a Magicka Templar.

These changes would (literally) destroy the build on every character that we have.

Just the sheer Gold cost, cost in Gold crafting mats (because we'd have to rework the gear on ALL of our characters, as well as have to regrind for gear that we can't Craft ourselves, and the time to do it on multiple characters on both of our accounts... all just to rework everything on all of our characters to attempt to mitigate the loss of sustain and regen for our Primary stat!!!

That would simply be too much. There's no way we'd be able to get back to actually playing our characters for an extended period of time...

We'd most likely have to leave the game. It's just too big of a hit, and to every single one of our characters as well...

FriedEggSandwich

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

If they are ever going to make regen sets useful for something other than upgrade matts or no CP campaigns they need to do this. Their CP system was poorly designed and they really should have thought the whole thing out better to begin with. They didn't, and now they need to go back and fix things players have gotten used to.

People need to remember the reason why skills aren't back-loaded with cool-downs, and infrequently front-loaded with warm ups is because resource pools are supposed to limit outlandish spaming of a small range of abilities.

People keep saying this but I have no idea where they're coming from. I feel like I have to wear a regen set in pvp. We get ability cost increases every other patch. Even with 3x cost reduction glyphs, 5x seducer and 85cp in magician my skill cost is higher than it used to be before cp with just 3x cost reduction glyphs. Abilities have never been as expensive as they are now. If they just remove magician without mitigating the impact then regen sets won't just be viable, they'll be the only viable sets. Has it not occurred to anyone that the only reason people don't worry about sustain in pvp in this meta is because of heavy armour?

JinMori

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

If they are ever going to make regen sets useful for something other than upgrade matts or no CP campaigns they need to do this. Their CP system was poorly designed and they really should have thought the whole thing out better to begin with. They didn't, and now they need to go back and fix things players have gotten used to.

People need to remember the reason why skills aren't back-loaded with cool-downs, and infrequently front-loaded with warm ups is because resource pools are supposed to limit outlandish spaming of a small range of abilities.

Even with 600 cp you will run out of resources very fast in pve, if you don't have a healer to back you up with the right abilities, so no i don't think this change was needed, in wow you aren't forced to sacrifice damage for sustain, why should you here?
The fact is that this will not add variety, because right now you have variety, you wanna run a bit more sustain because you are having trouble sustaining, guess what you can, you wanna run full damage because you have the right abilities to sustain, guess what you can.
This change will actually ruin variety.

I tried this, without minor magickasteal, orbs, synergies etc, you will run out of resources in about 1 and a half minute (if you are lucky, most time you can't even get to 1 min), even with potions, so i don't see the problem.
Recently they made very stupid nerfes (trap beast, major force etc...) and this needs to stop, stop punishing people for being in a good group, stop punishing people for putting more effort into the game.
Bring down the ceiling my ass. And actually this would punish bad players just as much, the ones who can't sustain right now will be basically useless.

So yea, think before you make such big changes please.

Stam is dead, and if this change goes through magicka is also dead. And nb will become king, thanks to they're insane regen, meaning they will not have to drop damage to sustain.

Waffennacht

I think it's a part of bring the top down.

Im guessing it's suppose to make us worse.

I hate it.

Alcast

Before Champ Points were introduced to the game, people played without Champion points. And they did just as fine as they did now, what a surprise.

bowmanz607

Good! Sustain is a joke despite people on here seemingly thinking that some sort of change needs to be made to offset these resource nerfs. This will actually make heavy armor operate more how it should while also indirectly buffing light and medium armor. What makes heavy over the top is the cost reduction in cp. Now they will have to properly manage resources and run sustain sets over damage to compensate.

Wrubius_Coronaria

I really hope one day zenimax will remove completly the badly designed champion points system by something totally new who doenst bring more nerfs after each new update. So many things been nerfed since they're added on live server, like streak, dodgeroll, cost increase for every skill for example, ect...
The strengh of ESO is the dynamic gameplay (for pve and pvp), not like others mmos (swtor, FF14), removing these cp will be a huge mistake and change in a bad way the gameplay with something more slow and less dynamic in my opinion and reducing even more many fights and builds possibilities.
Seems to be an invitation for more zerging in pvp clearly. And I wonder if zergs in pvp will be worst than actually after Morrowind. It's possible?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Kodrac

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Any response at all

If they're not talking it's probably because they have an announcement or press release planned and they (no game studio) never discuss stuff before that announcement. Just like with the last update, they wouldn't talk about housing or class balance until after their news articles went live.

bowmanz607

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Waffennacht

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

Yay no more valid unique builds! META ONLY FOREVER!

/sarcasm

WreckfulAbandon

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

If I mained a NB I probably wouldn't contest these changes too much either

djdc1234

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

These are senseless changes. ZOS just doesn't know when to leave things well enough alone.

that has been the theme since before beta 2013.
changes like these were even noted on their FB page and twitter account in back in 2012.
we did not like it back then and is still the same today.

Time to quit... Idk why but it seems like the right thing to do if they do that

Voxicity

Sounds like some good changes

Tannus15

ROFL, hyperbole much?

omg, I might have to change my gear in 3 months time and rework my build a bit *flips desk and rage quits*

If my regen drops by 10% and skills cost 16% more then it's game over man! All end game content is IMPOSSIBLE!!
No one will ever complete Cradle of Shadows AGAIN!!!

Really guys? Are your dungeon / trial runs really that close? "woah, we only just cleared that. if that fight went for another 15 seconds we were screwed*

Oh, hold on a sec, what's this weird thing I found.
vet CoS solo

Ohhh, that's 1 dude solo'ing SOTH. Maybe there is a little wriggle room in there at the moment. I dunno, it might just be possible.

One thing is for certain though, There is no way possible for anyone with less than 300cp to EVER finish those dungeons in vet mode, because unless you've got 100 points in regen AND 100 points in cost reduction the game is basically UNPLAYABLE!

Marabornwingrion

Still no single word about this...?
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_MattFiror

Waseem

i like the fact CPs getting such rework, it will make new players of ESO more welcomed to enjoy "endgame" as the gap between CP 600 and 10 is getting slightly reduced.
the forum was full of QQ regarding poisons not so long.. now everyone uses poisons to fit his/her playstyle and are liking it
and as @Alcast said, people used to play the game without CP some years ago, so its not that big of a deal as the adaption space is wide open all the time..

Koolio

Waseem wrote: »

i like the fact CPs getting such rework, it will make new players of ESO more welcomed to enjoy "endgame" as the gap between CP 600 and 10 is getting slightly reduced.
the forum was full of QQ regarding poisons not so long.. now everyone uses poisons to fit his/her playstyle and are liking it
and as @Alcast said, people used to play the game without CP some years ago, so its not that big of a deal as the adaption space is wide open all the time..

But they have adjusted moves with CP in mind. Stamplar just had their move cost reduced because they were "wrong". How long have then been wrong? People also make large time invested decisions because of Cp. I'll probably play either way. But if I spend 20 hours to get a setup together (sometimes it might take 100) then as soon as I'm comfortable they change it. Ok whatever I'll do it again. Now that I've been doing that for a year I finally feel like I was 18months ago. *** gets old and I don't feel like playing another year just to be where I'm at right now. That's got to be insanity.

usmcjdking

A good metric for build longevity is the following:

Do I require anything outside of my build and typical skill rotation to function properly? If the answer is yes you do, then I would propose that your build is so delicate that it's bound to break regardless of how much QQ you put out there.

Baconlad

Um...lets all do this re spec CP cost redux and regen CPs to somthing else that will help us just to see how bad it really is. If its only a slight change (which i think it will be small) then thats it! Learn to heavy attack! On magplars with dual swords and sword and board. Meh, maybe run LA with shields and a resto staff instead

Draqone

I think it's a good change, even if it'll mean I'll have to deal with hordes of DD's going

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Ch4mpTW

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I assume that the information shared was obtained from Pax East convention and so I am definitely holding my judgment until Morrowind hits PTS. Usually at these conventions ZOS and, I assume, other companies experiment with ideas to see how well/badly they go over. It's easy testing because you know at least some will play your game and most will provide feedback.

IF this does hit PTS then it will be interesting to say the least. I don't get why they keep messing with things that don't need to be messed with and it just goes to show that PvE will always be affected by PvP and vice versa. I don't know how they can separate they the two. Maybe ZOS can come up with two different CP systems?

IF this goes in PTS like this and they keep doing things like this the game will never be balanced, or at least as close as it could be. Truthfully the game will never be 100% balanced but it definitely could be closer but not when they keep drastically changing/nerfing things without addressing other current balancing issues first. It's like a teeter-totter that ZOS just keep over loading up one side at a time versus finding a healthy balance that let's it go back and forth on it's own.

20 years in MMO history, prove that IF you wait to react until they are on PTS, then you are BONED.

Agreed.

If we don't show our displeasure now, and this change to the CP constellations makes it to PTS; then it will almost assuredly make it to the Live servers.

Then, if they ever reverse it, it won't be until an unknown, distant point in the future.

Which means it will be around for a long, long time.

We have to show them now, that we're not OK with these changes.

If we don't speak up about our displeasure with these changes, it'll be the end of all of us! Noooooo!

Vahrokh

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

We don't owe ZOS any money too.

I hate reminding you the obvious, who needs money to keep going is them, not us.

bowmanz607

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

If I mained a NB I probably wouldn't contest these changes too much either

What does that have to do with the heavy armor issues created by cp??

bowmanz607

Vahrokh wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Omg we can't sustain in heavy any more awwwww the sky is falling!!!!!!! Get a grip people.

Also, stop acting like you all ready entitled to a response just because a thread goes for a little while. They owe you no response. They are still working their own stiff out.

God such a sense of entitlement.

We don't owe ZOS any money too.

I hate reminding you the obvious, who needs money to keep going is them, not us.

Yah because some forum warriors rage quitting hurts their pockets.