Furniture Crafting : Completely Inaccessible

BlackSparrow · February 2017

Baratan wrote: »

There's also a hidden level requirement on furniture recipes. I have one my crafter char, level 47 and he's being told his level is too low to read the recipe, even though no level requirement is listed on the item.

I'm pretty sure this is a bug.

At least, the thread on it was moved to the Bug Reports section, and there doesn't seem to be much consistency in what recipes are affected.

kewl · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

We've known this would be the case since it first appeared on PTS, but I'll say it here now that it's live.

Furniture crafting is really cool in theory but completely impractical to get into. You cannot realistic furnish a home with this method.

The problem centers around a few major issues, only one of which is reasonable.
Crafting furniture requires a "plan/blueprint/etc." This could have gone either way in the design, with the end result looking either more like armor crafting or more like provisioning, and I don't consider it a major loss that it ended up looking like provisioning. Yes, it's a long grind and a long search for all the recipes, but as it compares to other systems in game it's pretty reasonable. Higher drop rates for blueprints could fix any undue strain, at the very least.

The plans require enormous amounts of materials. Even simple objects require a comparatively large amount of resources. Never mind that the resources make zero sense sometimes (as a friend asked, "why am I putting runestones IN MY BREAD??"). Even worse, objects require huge amounts of material regardless of their size or aesthetic impact. You need nearly as much material to make a tiny cup as you do a large brazier. I can't see this being fixed because it would require a lot of work going back through each recipe and fixing the bad decisions.

This one is the worst aspect. Furniture crafting base materials are scarce. VERY. SCARCE. I spent many hours last night farming materials and Ra Gada motif chapters and I would up with more motif chapters (3) than certain furniture crafting materials like Decorative Wax (0). SERIOUSLY, how did anyone think that was a good idea? I can make a full set of CP 160 gear of all armor types with the crafting materials I got, but I can't even make a green-quality table? Awful! This is the part that is not only easiest to change, but which would also have the most impact. Please, make furniture materials drop from every node, and make Decorative Wax drop literally ever, because right now it doesn't.

This is holding back what should a fun and engaging system. If I need to spend hours a day farming just to make a single furniture item then I won't even have a fully furnished large home by this time next year. That is not fun or engaging, it is debilitating.

Working as intended. Designed to direct traffic to crown store.

Preyfar · February 2017

kewl wrote: »

Working as intended. Designed to direct traffic to crown store.

If the Crown Store had enough items to sell you could make that argument, but there's gaping holes in the selection that makes basic decorating by race impossible.

Loves_guars · February 2017

kewl wrote: »

Working as intended. Designed to direct traffic to crown store.

Not even swtor got this greedy with the housing launch. My crafters were able to make a lot of stuff, you could by furniture in the GTN and get them everywhere in the world for much less grind. And I'm talking about EA.

Biro123 · February 2017

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

This is correct, but that's pretty easy and I'm pretty sure represents the typical way people play, with all crafts on at least one character.

Not true at all. I for one have my equipment crafting spread out on several different toons - one is a woodworker, one is a blacksmith, one is a clothier. It's been that way since beta. While all of these toons also are level 50 in all crafts at this point in time due to deconstruction, they certainly do not have any skill points invested into those other crafts.

Same here. I have levelled every craft to 50 - and all are on a different toons - and it took my entire elapsed playtime so far to do it (and still don't have all 9 traits)

This has got to be the biggest RNG joke so far in this game.. You're laughing if you do happen to have one dedicated crafter toon - screwed if you don't....

Preyfar · February 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

LOL.

Just got into Stormcrag Crypt in Eastmarch. First drop was Redgard Work Cart.

All The Best

I can't vouch for delves and dungeons, but I can vouch that overworld droprates are majority racial. Farm in Wrothgar you'll get Orc, farm in Stormhaven you'll get Breton, farm in Reaper's you'll get majority Khajiit. I don't know if every delve/dungeon follows the same pattern as overworld.

jarydf · February 2017

The grind is illogical from a lore / game perspective. As in real life having grind on rare items makes sense but to have to grind in 3 different ways to get basic household items makes no sense.

Also the idea that I have been going around searching and taking one set of resources like wood, ore and food, stealing items from houses to make one type of food / clothing / furnishings etc and I can't use these in my house but need a completely different type of the same resource makes no sense from an roleplay immersion stand point. I can't come up with a reason to justify it besides "you are playing a game and it has new huge grindy mechanics in it".

Vez · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

[*] The plans require enormous amounts of materials. Even simple objects require a comparatively large amount of resources. Never mind that the resources make zero sense sometimes (as a friend asked, "why am I putting runestones IN MY BREAD??"). Even worse, objects require huge amounts of material regardless of their size or aesthetic impact. You need nearly as much material to make a tiny cup as you do a large brazier. I can't see this being fixed because it would require a lot of work going back through each recipe and fixing the bad decisions.
.

To make some display carrots you need carrots (!), nikel (?!), decorative wax, and flour (...). In most other games - certainly in other TES games - the carrots themselves would just be displayable. If this doesn't say onerous, almost punitive, unimmersive gating then I don't know what does. This makes it seem almost like ZOS has disdain for their players and see them as nothing more than numbers to manage with little concern as to whether their players actually enjoy this.

heaven13 · February 2017

I definitely found altmer design plans in Stormhaven. And I agree...Why must I have all this extra crap to display carrots? Maybe the decorative wax, so they don't go bad. But nothing else should be needed. The redguard candle plan I found requires WOODWORKING ffs.

Korinth · February 2017

BlackSparrow wrote: »

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

This is correct, but that's pretty easy and I'm pretty sure represents the typical way people play, with all crafts on at least one character.

Not true at all. I for one have my equipment crafting spread out on several different toons - one is a woodworker, one is a blacksmith, one is a clothier. It's been that way since beta. While all of these toons also are level 50 in all crafts at this point in time due to deconstruction, they certainly do not have any skill points invested into those other crafts.

Agreed. Since launch, I've had Smithing and Clothier on one character (for convenience and to save motifs), but the other four crafts have each gone to a different character. All but the Enchanter have now mastered their individual craft.

This has been a very popular method of crafting since early in the game. When we were all first leveling, skill points were at a premium, so it made a lot of sense to spread crafting across multiple characters. I remember when "crafting alts" were considered risky and hard to level.

Because of this update, I've basically started training my Master Woodworker in the other crafts, just so I can make some of these more complicated recipes. It's a pain. I've had to respec her just to free up some skill points for it.

No doubt.... whoever on the Dev team thought "lets make furniture crafting require more than one crafting skill" evidently has NOT played this game.

DeadlyRecluse · February 2017

Blueprint droprate needs to go waaaay up.

I'm okay with the matgrind, but after grinding mats you still probably can't make what you want (or anything close to it).

My house is full of redguard couches and fake rum bottles.

Alpheu5 · February 2017

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't know the design behind what spawns where, but I laughed when you mentioned you couldn't find Decorative Wax.

I've been stealing in Orsinium for like 2 hours and found over 100 of them.

@IronCrystal are you getting them by stealing from containers that have food or food that's sitting out in the open? The first 2 Wax I found yesterday was from 2 bananas sitting in an open crate.

Vez · February 2017

Alpheu5 wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't know the design behind what spawns where, but I laughed when you mentioned you couldn't find Decorative Wax.

I've been stealing in Orsinium for like 2 hours and found over 100 of them.

@IronCrystal are you getting them by stealing from containers that have food or food that's sitting out in the open? The first 2 Wax I found yesterday was from 2 bananas sitting in an open crate.

I've gotten most of my decorative wax from food and ingredients that are laying out in the open on surfaces. It seems like the drop rate for it from food/ingredients laying out is about the same as the drop rate of regulus/heartwood/bast/mundane runes from nodes. I got a couple from containers that typically have ingredients (barrels, crates, sacks) but at what looks like a much lower drop rate than from food/ingredients that are displayed.

ETA: I've gotten wax both from stealing and from looting unowned food/ingredients.

AlnilamE · February 2017

Recremen wrote: »

[*] This one is the worst aspect. Furniture crafting base materials are scarce. VERY. SCARCE. I spent many hours last night farming materials and Ra Gada motif chapters and I would up with more motif chapters (3) than certain furniture crafting materials like Decorative Wax (0). SERIOUSLY, how did anyone think that was a good idea? I can make a full set of CP 160 gear of all armor types with the crafting materials I got, but I can't even make a green-quality table? Awful! This is the part that is not only easiest to change, but which would also have the most impact. Please, make furniture materials drop from every node, and make Decorative Wax drop literally ever, because right now it doesn't.
[/list]

While I agree that the mats could drop a little bit more frequently (I spent a good chunk of my evening looking for 7 heartwood I needed to craft the item to complete my quest), I want to point out that unless you were rigorously searching crates and barrels while you were farming Ra Gada, you would not be likely to find any Decorative Wax, as that is a by-product of provisioning containers.

Though having them drop from every node would be a bit overkill. The patch has been out for a day.

SaRuZ · February 2017

c0rp wrote: »

CASH SHOP. It is never going to go away, and it will always dictate game mechanics like this. Crafting furniture is supposed to be ridiculous else no one would buy it with real money.

^^^^ This guy gets it.

heaven13 · February 2017

I'm also a little miffed that the decorative wax is mostly found through stealing. There are far less places to farm it "legally" than the other 5, which makes playing a law abiding character (who also happens to be my consumables crafter) even more of a grind.

AlnilamE · February 2017

heaven13 wrote: »

I definitely found altmer design plans in Stormhaven. And I agree...Why must I have all this extra crap to display carrots? Maybe the decorative wax, so they don't go bad. But nothing else should be needed. The redguard candle plan I found requires WOODWORKING ffs.

Well, how exactly do you want to hold that candle? Are you trying to burn down your house?

heaven13 · February 2017

AlnilamE wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

I definitely found altmer design plans in Stormhaven. And I agree...Why must I have all this extra crap to display carrots? Maybe the decorative wax, so they don't go bad. But nothing else should be needed. The redguard candle plan I found requires WOODWORKING ffs.

Well, how exactly do you want to hold that candle? Are you trying to burn down your house?

An iron stand? Not wood! Lol

Unsent.Soul · February 2017

c0rp wrote: »

CASH SHOP. It is never going to go away, and it will always dictate game mechanics like this. Crafting furniture is supposed to be ridiculous else no one would buy it with real money.

This and if people would realize this update is just 1 giant grind till the "chapter" release...

It's content though, you guys will be okay.

AlnilamE · February 2017

heaven13 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

I definitely found altmer design plans in Stormhaven. And I agree...Why must I have all this extra crap to display carrots? Maybe the decorative wax, so they don't go bad. But nothing else should be needed. The redguard candle plan I found requires WOODWORKING ffs.

Well, how exactly do you want to hold that candle? Are you trying to burn down your house?

An iron stand? Not wood! Lol

Either would work. I've had candlesticks made of carved wood, iron and glass IRL.

So there may be some iron candle stands out there too.

Lynx7386 · February 2017

They royally screwed up with furniture crafting imo. It should have been an extension of the other crafting trades, i.e.:

-woodworking makes tables, chairs, etc.
-blacksmithing makes metal objects/decor
-clothing makes rugs, drapes/curtains, etc.
-alchemy makes glassware and plant decor
-enchanting makes magical furnishings
-Provisioning makes food related items

But no, they had to force another ridiculous grind into the game

SneaK · February 2017

Sounds awful, and pointless considering everything we're talking about is purely cosmetic.

SaRuZ · February 2017

heaven13 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

I definitely found altmer design plans in Stormhaven. And I agree...Why must I have all this extra crap to display carrots? Maybe the decorative wax, so they don't go bad. But nothing else should be needed. The redguard candle plan I found requires WOODWORKING ffs.

Well, how exactly do you want to hold that candle? Are you trying to burn down your house?

An iron stand? Not wood! Lol

They're redguards, they aren't that advanced yet. Duh

MopeyHat · February 2017

heaven13 wrote: »

I'm also a little miffed that the decorative wax is mostly found through stealing. There are far less places to farm it "legally" than the other 5, which makes playing a law abiding character (who also happens to be my consumables crafter) even more of a grind.

Just going through a humanoid based delve should give you some results. I managed to get 2-3 from probably 50 containers looted in a delve run.

Edit - That tip from @Vez sounds amazing. Will be checking food displays when I get home.

Iselin · February 2017

kewl wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

We've known this would be the case since it first appeared on PTS, but I'll say it here now that it's live.

Furniture crafting is really cool in theory but completely impractical to get into. You cannot realistic furnish a home with this method.

The problem centers around a few major issues, only one of which is reasonable.
Crafting furniture requires a "plan/blueprint/etc." This could have gone either way in the design, with the end result looking either more like armor crafting or more like provisioning, and I don't consider it a major loss that it ended up looking like provisioning. Yes, it's a long grind and a long search for all the recipes, but as it compares to other systems in game it's pretty reasonable. Higher drop rates for blueprints could fix any undue strain, at the very least.

The plans require enormous amounts of materials. Even simple objects require a comparatively large amount of resources. Never mind that the resources make zero sense sometimes (as a friend asked, "why am I putting runestones IN MY BREAD??"). Even worse, objects require huge amounts of material regardless of their size or aesthetic impact. You need nearly as much material to make a tiny cup as you do a large brazier. I can't see this being fixed because it would require a lot of work going back through each recipe and fixing the bad decisions.

This one is the worst aspect. Furniture crafting base materials are scarce. VERY. SCARCE. I spent many hours last night farming materials and Ra Gada motif chapters and I would up with more motif chapters (3) than certain furniture crafting materials like Decorative Wax (0). SERIOUSLY, how did anyone think that was a good idea? I can make a full set of CP 160 gear of all armor types with the crafting materials I got, but I can't even make a green-quality table? Awful! This is the part that is not only easiest to change, but which would also have the most impact. Please, make furniture materials drop from every node, and make Decorative Wax drop literally ever, because right now it doesn't.

This is holding back what should a fun and engaging system. If I need to spend hours a day farming just to make a single furniture item then I won't even have a fully furnished large home by this time next year. That is not fun or engaging, it is debilitating.

Working as intended. Designed to direct traffic to crown store.

Of course. This is what crafting looks like after the Crown Store. I fully expect jewelry crafting, if it ever gets implemented, to also look like this and not like the crafting professions that were developed initially to provide a balanced and fair progression when it wasn't all about nickels and dimes.

Chadak · February 2017

I could be more disappointed by the accessibility to vendor goods and blueprints, but I'm not exactly sure how.

Benefit of the doubt. It could always be worse, right?

Its been dismaying enough that every time I think I'd like to log in and go adventuring, I think about the house I'd like to furnish and realize, with 100% certainty, that I have no option of doing that...

...unless I wanna drop a couple hundred bucks on the cash shop, and even that's a vomited puddle of incomplete offerings.

Also, it isn't gonna happen. I'll take my dollars and set them aside for something worth buying, because their asking prices for furniture in the crown store are beyond acceptable by several orders of magnitude.

Several. Not just one: several.

Giraffon · February 2017

I don't mind the system. Sure a lot of the items and the materials required to make them are not in synch, but I was telling my guildies last night that over all, it gives me an excuse to just sort aimlessly wander around and pick things up. Before Homestead, doing that was a complete waste of time. At least now I'll have something to show for it. I'm in no hurry to decorate my homes. The big benefit is the ability to port to them. I've already got a few of them and I've found the utility of traveling between them to be quite nice.

IronCrystal · February 2017

Alpheu5 wrote: »

IronCrystal wrote: »

I don't know the design behind what spawns where, but I laughed when you mentioned you couldn't find Decorative Wax.

I've been stealing in Orsinium for like 2 hours and found over 100 of them.

@IronCrystal are you getting them by stealing from containers that have food or food that's sitting out in the open? The first 2 Wax I found yesterday was from 2 bananas sitting in an open crate.

I know at least some came from food containers, but I know they didn't all come from them. I steal from a house in orsinium that has lots of backpacks/urns/dressers/barrels/food containers. Some came from there yes, but definitely not all of them.

heaven13 · February 2017

MopeyHat wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

I'm also a little miffed that the decorative wax is mostly found through stealing. There are far less places to farm it "legally" than the other 5, which makes playing a law abiding character (who also happens to be my consumables crafter) even more of a grind.

Just going through a humanoid based delve should give you some results. I managed to get 2-3 from probably 50 containers looted in a delve run.

Edit - That tip from @Vez sounds amazing. Will be checking food displays when I get home.

Thanks. Will give that a look when I find one. That said, I'm honestly in no rush. I haven't even done the free room quest yet. If it had more.of a purpose, I might put more effort in, but as it stands, I'm just gonna play business as usual and what I get, I get.

AlnilamE · February 2017

I would like to gauge some expectations here:

1. What percentage of blueprints did you expect to find by yourself in the first 24 hours of the update being out?

2. How many housing items did you expect to have crafted in the first 24 hours of the game being out?

3. How did this expectation meet with reality?

4. Do you think more blueprints should be available for purchase?