Furniture Crafting : Completely Inaccessible

Linaleah

so upon crafting some more furniture after yet more farming... I have realized something that I was missing before. the biggest block? is not even going to be furniture specific mats. its going to be tempers. I have.. actualy ran out of pitch. managed to snag some in couple of guild stores after checking out a LOT of sellers (half didn't have it listed at all, 40% had it listed at 100 gold+ per pitch.. and for the things i wanted to craft, I needed 9. and not even super amazing things, just a dining table)

this is nuts.

I mean, I love this game. a lot. and most of the time, i will defend it. but this... is NUTS

Gandrhulf_Harbard

The most important thing that could (and SHOULD) happen to Furnishing, in time for the next Patch, is for someone with an ounce of common sense to go through EVERY SINGLE Pattern and adjust the Mats required to something reasonable.

Whoever came up with the current values must've been enjoying some very, very potent Skooma.

All The Best

STEVIL

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Fully outfitting a large house - lets compare that to getting top class gear - 9 trait sets -
Learning 9 traits on 7 different slots plus one to four more slolts for weapon/shield - that took how long exactly?

Comparing one unreasonably long grind to another unreasonably long grind and then concluding they are therefore reasonable is just about the weakest and most dishonest defence I have ever seen - in any forum, ever.

Still what should we expect from @STEVIL - the person who never sees anything wrong at all with ESO, ever.

All The Best

I admire your gusto in the misinfo department.

For those not living in #altfacts world, just look in my sig and see just three issues, two fairly major IMO, where i have issues with how things in the game are right now and suggestions for changes going forward. these are just some of the ones i have discussed and put forth - the ones i wanted to put in my sig - much less the ones i have discussed but did not feel strongly enough about to add to sig.

but some don't want to let obvious facts as "its there in the very sig" get in the way of a good barb at a poster - not their ideas.

But, it is easier for some to imagine objections to their ideas or ideas they like are based off some sort of blind or broad brush bias as opposed to a difference of opinion thats based in considered reason.

When someone rejects their ideas (ideas they like) or their advances its easier for some to just chalk it up to generalities like " the person who never sees anything wrong at all with ESO, ever" or " she/he just isn't into guys/gals" instead of thinking maybe it is actually for cause and specific to those ideas or them.




Meanwhile moving beyond the #altfacts and barbs... as to the idea barely mentioned...

"reasonable" has meaning.

When looking at "is a new addition reasonable or not" it is only logical to consider similar things already in the game.

Is the timeframe for housemats "reasonable" - well when you compare it to other long term high score crafting related aspects already in the game - like the time requirments on getting equip to "end game" 9 traits - it doesn't seem inconsistent or out of whack. it seems "reasonable" in the context of the game already established. In both you can get started really easily but there is a slow progression towards "fully done" which will take quite some time. in boht, there are options one can take which will speed it up a good bit - getting stuff from others so you can research traits quickly for instance compares nicely with buying furnishings, mats and plans from the guild stores.

So as far as expectation and being "reasonable" if one sees say fully furnishing a large house as say some form of "end game" play or prep for it especially if one adds in "fully crafted only" as some do - the timeframe is "reasonable" based on the rest of the game.

There is nothing weak or dishonest about judging additions by comparison to what is already there, forming expectations based on past and current comparisons - that is almost the definition of "reasonable" as in "thought through" or "considered."

On the other hand, we can look at the term "preferred."

if you replace the word reasonable with preferred or unreasonable with unpreferred the argument presented looks like this:

Comparing one unreasonably unpreferred long grind to another unreasonably unpreferred long grind and then concluding they are therefore reasonable preferrable is just about the..." blah blah

it makes perfect sense and is reasonable to say that if one does not like the long timeframe for traits one would maybe not prefer or like a similar timeframe added for housing mats acquisition under certain limitations.

That is however just about preference, people each liking different things.

A reasonable expectation is that longer developing content added to a game will be on the same order as longer developing content already existing in the game.

Although let me be clear - there is a big difference between the trait hunt and the furnishing hunt. While both have long base development times depending on choices one makes - traits have a basic negative that furnishings do not - with traits you hit a brick wall of minimum time cannot get around. The 8th traits and 8th traits of each line no matter what will take weeks each as the clock ticks down and there is nothing you can do to avoid that. You can get the guild store purchases to get the traits items ready and spend skill points to reduce the timeclock but that "do nothing else and wai for weeks" cannot by any means at all be avoided. there is a massive unavoidable roadblock to progress there.

There is no such things with house furnishing progress. in game gold at the guild stores and npc vendors and the like can accelerate the process and there is always activity that can be taken to move along the progress - if one is wanting to do so. there is absolutely no "player cannot push forward for weeks" equivalent in the house furnishings to the max side of things. So in that regard, i would say that as far as long term development content - housing furnishing is far superior to the example case i used - trait maxing. So it does appear they may have learned that for some - that would be preferrable.

ASIDE ADDED BY EDIT: in recent past i came under fire by some for agreeing that the long dead clock downtime factors in trait research was unreasonable and should be adjusted to allow ways for the player/character to accelerate that process more than exist now. One of the options presented was crown store purchases but i also mentioned just a smaller cap on trait time. I compared it to all the other dead clock timeframes in this game - which tend to be mostly under 24 hours and only one iirc is up to a week (vamp/ww bite) to show that a month is just too long for a single dead clock timer countdown to elapse - its inconsistent. Number of folks who "already had theirs" did not want it shortened for other going forward - felt it cheapened their work put in and such. Likely just another example of what you know who tries to make you believe as "Still what should we expect from @STEVIL - the person who never sees anything wrong at all with ESO, ever." altfacts.


Don't get me wrong. i never expect anybody to be happy with long term type content. there are lotsa folks who dont like this or that. Different tastes after all are common and expected. There are plenty of forum threads going back likely to day one of the forums about how some folks did not like this aspect or that aspect and though this took too long.

Some folks dont want to have to play for a long while to get the drop set weapon in the right weapon in the right trait. Some want to just get the weapon and maybe craft its trait to their liking and be done quickly.
Some folks dont want to play thru quests to level up and just prefer to grind out levels and some of those have issues with homesetad where not doing those quests has severe limitations due to not having the achievements.
Some folks dont like the slow pace of horse improvements especially on alts and want them to be quicker or made account wide - much like say how many aren't happy about or bring up the timeframe for furnishing fully multiple houses if they choose to go that route.

There are scads of those.

But i think it is helpful to keep the terms and ideas related to "reasonable" and "preferrential" in mind and distinct when considering these.

Wanting to get something in the game faster - i get that.

Is the timeframe for fully furnishing the next to biggest houses - are they the biggest non-crown ones? have to check - if one chooses to hamstring their progress "unreasonable" when compared to other long development content already in the game? i dont see that at all especially given so many options for speeding up the progress available to those who do not self-limit.

is the timeframe going to be liked or preferred by everyone - nope. But then no timeframe would be.

history shows that if the timeframe for crafting furnishings a house - a large house - fully from start to finish was weeks or even a couple months - if the mats flowed tons more freely and patterns were more available - etc - we would not be seeing a world of happy joy joy forum threads...

instead we would be seeing threads about how:

1. there is no market side benefits in this - why craft furniture for sale if it is so quick to gethher and craft
2. here once again ZoS catered to the want it now quick and easy crowd and we cant ever have any long and work at it content added anymore
3. its a just weeks in and i am already loaded with mats i cant use fast enough cuiz my house is loaded ...

etc etc etc etc ..

Gandrhulf_Harbard

@STEVIL

Yesterday was the first day of my "3 day weekend". I spent approx 12 hours in-game. I did Delves and Dungeons most of the day, and deliberately traveled "normally" between them so as to farm Mats.

Throughout the entire day I got 2 Patterns (for things I already had), and enough Furnishing Mats to make ONLY 2x Rough Stools.

For 12 Hours!!!!!

I don't want things "fast".

I want things REASONABLE.

All The Best

STEVIL

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

@STEVIL

Yesterday was the first day of my "3 day weekend". I spent approx 12 hours in-game. I did Delves and Dungeons most of the day, and deliberately traveled "normally" between them so as to farm Mats.

Throughout the entire day I got 2 Patterns (for things I already had), and enough Furnishing Mats to make ONLY 2x Rough Stools.

For 12 Hours!!!!!

I don't want things "fast".

I want things REASONABLE.

All The Best

the fun of partial info and parsing.

wouldn't it have been so simple to make the clearer point by listing the amount of furnishing mats acquired? But that would be - if taken at his word - a specific claim that can be analyzed.

instead the claim is about not even how many mats were acquired but how many of a single give type of thing (not specifically defined) could be crafted by this character with only the mats gained. (even that is a bit of assumption on my part )

One of the craftable rough stool require only 4heartwoods of the furnishing mats.
Another nicer one the cabled one requires 6 heartwood and 4 regulous.
Did not see another stool with rough that was craftable in a quick look. Might have missed it.

So all we can surmise from this is that during the day the character acquired between 8 and 17 heart wood and not much else. the character may have acquired 500 bast... 1000 alchemy resin and mundane runes... if the characxter doesn't have plans learned that craft with those.

its great packaging, to be sure, not just providing a list of how much was gained.

There is no explicit statement that the character found no other furnishing mats at all, no bast no clean pelts, no this or that... but we might erroneously think it was implied maybe kinda sideways...

but a simple list of "this is what i got from the day" would have been sufficient to clear all that up.

Also, from 12 hours of dungeoning and delving thats a lot of loot and gold and sellables and that gold can buy furnishing mats too at the guild stores so - wait did i miss the part where the overall wealth that could be used to buy furnishing mats was provided? Surely if this is about playtime and rate of gain of mats for crafting and exemplified in the "12 hours to get stuff to craft four stools" kind of logic then surely the profits to buy mats that are in store after store would be a reasonable way to present a rational or dare we say reasonable example?

We can of course jump to the conclusion that its just an oversight and not an attempt to mischaracterize or mislead but then given the track record... that jump may be an olympic record if we make it.

Either way, i am sure the complete info will be provided quickly and accurately and this will all be cleared up.

Oh and just to be clear and to be on the same page - what would you consider to have been a reasonable rate of gains? once we know the full list of gains you got that could have been applied to crafting (which includes wealth for guild buys for mats and patterns and the like) then please also let us know how many doublings or triplings or ten-fold increases or more you think would get it to "reasonable".

Then we can asses the example and the position a little better.

i mean over in the homestead storage blah blah threads one guy thought being able to craft a single crate that added 2500 extra storage spaces as one furnishing was a "reasonable" idea. we have no idea if your particular idea of reasonable is in line with that or what and that makes your example a bit hard to assess.

Iselin

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

@STEVIL

Yesterday was the first day of my "3 day weekend". I spent approx 12 hours in-game. I did Delves and Dungeons most of the day, and deliberately traveled "normally" between them so as to farm Mats.

Throughout the entire day I got 2 Patterns (for things I already had), and enough Furnishing Mats to make ONLY 2x Rough Stools.

For 12 Hours!!!!!

I don't want things "fast".

I want things REASONABLE.

All The Best

Got to be careful around here. Whenever you point out that something is excessively grindy clearly for no reason other than to keep you playing longer, as has always been the case with all MMOs from the very first one, or in these cash shop days, ro steer you toward cash shop grind relief, you'll always get "so you want it all now?" replies from the faithful.

Unlike all crafting that was developed before the game turned to the cash shop dark side that had a good balance between the easily accessible mundane and the grindy 9-trait sets, furniture crafting is grindy from step one... deliberately so. Why? Because it was "balanced" with crown store furnishings sales in mind unlike the previous crafting trades.

Expect future additional crafting professions, such as jewelry crafting if they ever get around to that one, to be like furniture crafting and not like blacksmithing.

MornaBaine

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

The most important thing that could (and SHOULD) happen to Furnishing, in time for the next Patch, is for someone with an ounce of common sense to go through EVERY SINGLE Pattern and adjust the Mats required to something reasonable.

Whoever came up with the current values must've been enjoying some very, very potent Skooma.

All The Best

ALL of this! ^^ Apparently ZOS has decided us folks with crafting bags just have wayyyy too much stuff in them and are using furniture to drain them. It's incredibility awful and the thing I hate the very most about this new system. As a crafter with all my maxxed crafts on one character I was reallllly looking forward to this. Now, it's just yet another irritating disappointment.

Hallothiel

@Iselin

Normally I am quite supportive of this game but having played around since the update (on PS4) I am deeply frustrated and disappointed with the whole crafting aspects of Homestead. It's fecking ludicrous. Maybe I was delusional in hoping that it might be similar to Skyrim - not because I'm a fan but because although it could be hideously grindy it had some logic.

This system is ill thought out and badly designed. And don't get me started on the idiocy of the Master Writ system. Tried explaining to a colleague & they looked at me as if I had gone insane.

esp1992

Some of the cool stuff I want to craft... I can never craft.

I Have a Huge House in Riften for my Nightblades who are Supposed to be Poachers and Meat Chefs with heads, Hides, and Meats of countless innocent creatures, but I can't because A) Designs ae rare and Since when do fish or hanging rabbits have runestones or heartwood for crafting?! I'm like... NOT HAPPY! >:(

Araviel2

so you want furniture crafting to be just like armor crafting where crafted armor sets sells for less than material value because everyone and their mother can make them?

Recremen

Araviel2 wrote: »

so you want furniture crafting to be just like armor crafting where crafted armor sets sells for less than material value because everyone and their mother can make them?

@Araviel2

I have no idea how you could come to that conclusion after reading the post. The thrust of the argument is that it required too many materials per object and that materials are too darn rare. The cost of the materials is exactly the problem itself.

hmsdragonfly

Recremen wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

so you want furniture crafting to be just like armor crafting where crafted armor sets sells for less than material value because everyone and their mother can make them?

@Araviel2

I have no idea how you could come to that conclusion after reading the post. The thrust of the argument is that it required too many materials per object and that materials are too darn rare. The cost of the materials is exactly the problem itself.

So, ummm, is furniture crafting accessible for you now? I mean, with those 150g blueprints, cheap crafting mats...

Recremen

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

so you want furniture crafting to be just like armor crafting where crafted armor sets sells for less than material value because everyone and their mother can make them?

@Araviel2

I have no idea how you could come to that conclusion after reading the post. The thrust of the argument is that it required too many materials per object and that materials are too darn rare. The cost of the materials is exactly the problem itself.

So, ummm, is furniture crafting accessible for you now? I mean, with those 150g blueprints, cheap crafting mats...

@hmsdragonfly

lol what server are you playing on and can I get an invite? Even with the anniversary event blueprints are expensive and materials are rare. I don't mind the blueprints, like I said originally, it's only bad in combination with the rare materials. But yeah, materials are still rare. I did 72 daily quests across my characters every day for the event and only have about 200 of any given crafting material. That's enough for about 20 chairs. Not great.

hmsdragonfly

Recremen wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

so you want furniture crafting to be just like armor crafting where crafted armor sets sells for less than material value because everyone and their mother can make them?

@Araviel2

I have no idea how you could come to that conclusion after reading the post. The thrust of the argument is that it required too many materials per object and that materials are too darn rare. The cost of the materials is exactly the problem itself.

So, ummm, is furniture crafting accessible for you now? I mean, with those 150g blueprints, cheap crafting mats...

@hmsdragonfly

lol what server are you playing on and can I get an invite? Even with the anniversary event blueprints are expensive and materials are rare. I don't mind the blueprints, like I said originally, it's only bad in combination with the rare materials. But yeah, materials are still rare. I did 72 daily quests across my characters every day for the event and only have about 200 of any given crafting material. That's enough for about 20 chairs. Not great.

PC EU. Green blueprints are 150g, Blue ones are 3k-4k

Heartwood 220-280.
Pelt 8-10.
Bast 75-90.
Regulus 50-60.
Mundane Rune 90-100.
Resin 16-20.
Wax 40-50.

Spend 100k-200k and you will be able to craft the entire world xD

AndrewQ84

I think it's ridiculous that I need 8, yes 8 honing stones to make a mug. I can upgrade 4 pieces of gear to green for that.

IwakuraLain42

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

so you want furniture crafting to be just like armor crafting where crafted armor sets sells for less than material value because everyone and their mother can make them?

@Araviel2

I have no idea how you could come to that conclusion after reading the post. The thrust of the argument is that it required too many materials per object and that materials are too darn rare. The cost of the materials is exactly the problem itself.

So, ummm, is furniture crafting accessible for you now? I mean, with those 150g blueprints, cheap crafting mats...

@hmsdragonfly

lol what server are you playing on and can I get an invite? Even with the anniversary event blueprints are expensive and materials are rare. I don't mind the blueprints, like I said originally, it's only bad in combination with the rare materials. But yeah, materials are still rare. I did 72 daily quests across my characters every day for the event and only have about 200 of any given crafting material. That's enough for about 20 chairs. Not great.

PC EU. Green blueprints are 150g, Blue ones are 3k-4k

Heartwood 220-280.
Pelt 8-10.
Bast 75-90.
Regulus 50-60.
Mundane Rune 90-100.
Resin 16-20.
Wax 40-50.

Spend 100k-200k and you will be able to craft the entire world xD

For PS4/EU the blueprint costs are similar but material costs are 10x more expensive still ....