PTS Feedback Thread for Templar Balance Improvements

templesus · January 2017

The fact my detailed stamplar comment got 0 attention is proof how neglected our class is...

Trottz · January 2017

maxjapank wrote: »

well...I didn't want to speak for all Templars. But I know quite a few that use the Explosive morph. Thing is that most read to use Toppling and follow the status quo. But Explosive hits hard, at least in pvp, and hits multiple players.

....

yep. i do enjoy my explosive charge. and there are 2 stamina gap closers.

Grumble_and_Grunt · January 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

ellahellabella wrote: »

Yeah, we lost Dawnbreaker of Smiting so Cresent is the only cheap burst ult we have now

in the last year i dont recall seeing a single Crescent in a death recap. It gets changed and suddenly everyone was using it? lol all magplars are running meteor/bats/soul strike/eots

+1

As I have already highlighted a few pages back in this thread. Templars who are still using Sword and Shield and DW (classic set up aka not converted to Destro cheese which is viable on literally any build/class) synergise best with Crescent Sweep for ultimate. It's cheap and very good burst, procs Burning light, only drawback being range and how it's so easily shuffled/dodged now changed this PTS.

Now it is stamina and basically a cheaper but worse DB in every possible scenario almost and anyone arguing for PvE lol, again no way CS is viable or will earn your stamplar a spot in competitive raids. So the change is only at the expense of magicka Templar losing the only burst ultimate it had that was good imo.

As mentioned before destro is just broken and performs well on any class, meteor synergises the absolute worst with templar in comparison to any other class due to the fact it has no CC to go through block rendering Meteor wasted in most situations, bats is not a competent dmg ulti. It's a 'oh Sh**t let me use bats to not die to this zerg for a couple more secs to mist away or die anyway'

I see the Stamplars rejoicing because they've been thrown a bone, but if the changes goes live, everyone will be back to DBoS for PvP and Rend for PvE and next patches or so Crescent will be the next skill everyone cries for a rework because it serves no use and Templars will just have to lose the only low cost offensive ulti available to them and forced to slot a destro and grate more cheese across Cyrodiil.

Finally to the people who argue that DBoS is better for Mageplar anyways (Which isn't true test dmg yourself) but want a physical Crescent because it gives stamplars more burst and viability than DBoS already provides them, I can't be the only person seeing the flawed logic in this?

templesus · January 2017

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

ellahellabella wrote: »

Yeah, we lost Dawnbreaker of Smiting so Cresent is the only cheap burst ult we have now

in the last year i dont recall seeing a single Crescent in a death recap. It gets changed and suddenly everyone was using it? lol all magplars are running meteor/bats/soul strike/eots

+1

As I have already highlighted a few pages back in this thread. Templars who are still using Sword and Shield and DW (classic set up aka not converted to Destro cheese which is viable on literally any build/class) synergise best with Crescent Sweep for ultimate. It's cheap and very good burst, procs Burning light, only drawback being range and how it's so easily shuffled/dodged now changed this PTS.

Now it is stamina and basically a cheaper but worse DB in every possible scenario almost and anyone arguing for PvE lol, again no way CS is viable or will earn your stamplar a spot in competitive raids. So the change is only at the expense of magicka Templar using the only burst ultimate it had that was good imo.

As mentioned before destro is just broken and performs well on any class, meteor synergises the absolute worst with templar in comparison to any other class due to the fact it has no CC to go through block rendering Meteor wasted in most situations, bats is not a competent dmg ulti. It's a 'oh Sh**t let me use bats to not die to this zerg for a couple more secs to mist away or die anyway'

I see the Stamplars rejoicing because they've been thrown a bone, but if the changes goes live, everyone will be back to DBoS for PvP and Rend for PvE and next patches or so Crescent will be the next skill everyone cries for a rework because it serves no use and Templars will just have to lose the only low cost offensive ulti available to them and forced to slot a destro and grate more cheese across Cyrodiil.

Finally to the people who argue that DBoS is better for Mageplar anyways (Which isn't true test dmg yourself) but want a physical Crescent because it gives stamplars more burst and viability than DBoS already provides them, I can't be the only person seeing the flawed logic in this?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

Grumble_and_Grunt · January 2017

templesus wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

ellahellabella wrote: »

Yeah, we lost Dawnbreaker of Smiting so Cresent is the only cheap burst ult we have now

in the last year i dont recall seeing a single Crescent in a death recap. It gets changed and suddenly everyone was using it? lol all magplars are running meteor/bats/soul strike/eots

+1

As I have already highlighted a few pages back in this thread. Templars who are still using Sword and Shield and DW (classic set up aka not converted to Destro cheese which is viable on literally any build/class) synergise best with Crescent Sweep for ultimate. It's cheap and very good burst, procs Burning light, only drawback being range and how it's so easily shuffled/dodged now changed this PTS.

Now it is stamina and basically a cheaper but worse DB in every possible scenario almost and anyone arguing for PvE lol, again no way CS is viable or will earn your stamplar a spot in competitive raids. So the change is only at the expense of magicka Templar using the only burst ultimate it had that was good imo.

As mentioned before destro is just broken and performs well on any class, meteor synergises the absolute worst with templar in comparison to any other class due to the fact it has no CC to go through block rendering Meteor wasted in most situations, bats is not a competent dmg ulti. It's a 'oh Sh**t let me use bats to not die to this zerg for a couple more secs to mist away or die anyway'

I see the Stamplars rejoicing because they've been thrown a bone, but if the changes goes live, everyone will be back to DBoS for PvP and Rend for PvE and next patches or so Crescent will be the next skill everyone cries for a rework because it serves no use and Templars will just have to lose the only low cost offensive ulti available to them and forced to slot a destro and grate more cheese across Cyrodiil.

Finally to the people who argue that DBoS is better for Mageplar anyways (Which isn't true test dmg yourself) but want a physical Crescent because it gives stamplars more burst and viability than DBoS already provides them, I can't be the only person seeing the flawed logic in this?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

For ESO PvP there is everything wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale with your CP until/If they address the system, hence the Stamina morphs we have today and why every other stam class was inferior to Stam DK at that point. It's about balancing the books not about magicka/stamina bias I couldn't care less about that. All skills should be meaningful/useful and my argument is CS and DBoS are very much the same so it only detracts from a certain playstyle without adding to another... Nor do you see me arguing about making stamina morphs magicka this is about reverting a change that just doesn't make much sense imo, Magicka builds lost DBoS, it was warranted it made sense, to remedy loss of DBoS ZoS buffed Crescent and now making it physical, it's one step forward two steps back.

templesus · January 2017

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

ellahellabella wrote: »

Yeah, we lost Dawnbreaker of Smiting so Cresent is the only cheap burst ult we have now

in the last year i dont recall seeing a single Crescent in a death recap. It gets changed and suddenly everyone was using it? lol all magplars are running meteor/bats/soul strike/eots

+1

As I have already highlighted a few pages back in this thread. Templars who are still using Sword and Shield and DW (classic set up aka not converted to Destro cheese which is viable on literally any build/class) synergise best with Crescent Sweep for ultimate. It's cheap and very good burst, procs Burning light, only drawback being range and how it's so easily shuffled/dodged now changed this PTS.

Now it is stamina and basically a cheaper but worse DB in every possible scenario almost and anyone arguing for PvE lol, again no way CS is viable or will earn your stamplar a spot in competitive raids. So the change is only at the expense of magicka Templar using the only burst ultimate it had that was good imo.

As mentioned before destro is just broken and performs well on any class, meteor synergises the absolute worst with templar in comparison to any other class due to the fact it has no CC to go through block rendering Meteor wasted in most situations, bats is not a competent dmg ulti. It's a 'oh Sh**t let me use bats to not die to this zerg for a couple more secs to mist away or die anyway'

I see the Stamplars rejoicing because they've been thrown a bone, but if the changes goes live, everyone will be back to DBoS for PvP and Rend for PvE and next patches or so Crescent will be the next skill everyone cries for a rework because it serves no use and Templars will just have to lose the only low cost offensive ulti available to them and forced to slot a destro and grate more cheese across Cyrodiil.

Finally to the people who argue that DBoS is better for Mageplar anyways (Which isn't true test dmg yourself) but want a physical Crescent because it gives stamplars more burst and viability than DBoS already provides them, I can't be the only person seeing the flawed logic in this?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

For ESO PvP there is everything wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale with your CP until/If they address the system, hence the Stamina morphs we have today and why every other stam class was inferior to Stam DK at that point. It's about balancing the books not about magicka/stamina bias I couldn't care less about that. All skills should be meaningful/useful and my argument is CS and DBoS are very much the same so it only detracts from a certain playstyle without adding to another... Nor do you see me arguing about making stamina morphs magicka this is about reverting a change that just doesn't make much sense imo, Magicka builds lost DBoS, it was warranted it made sense, to remedy loss of DBoS ZoS buffed Crescent and now making it physical, it's one step forward two steps back.

They aren't the same at all, crescent sweep is near half the cost and the initial damage is equivalent to incap. Have you even tested the PTS?

ellahellabella · January 2017

ManDraKE wrote: »

ellahellabella wrote: »

Yeah, we lost Dawnbreaker of Smiting so Cresent is the only cheap burst ult we have now

in the last year i dont recall seeing a single Crescent in a death recap. It gets changed and suddenly everyone was using it? lol all magplars are running meteor/bats/soul strike/eots

I actually love it for duels... Am I a rare breed?

Grumble_and_Grunt · January 2017

templesus wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

ellahellabella wrote: »

Yeah, we lost Dawnbreaker of Smiting so Cresent is the only cheap burst ult we have now

in the last year i dont recall seeing a single Crescent in a death recap. It gets changed and suddenly everyone was using it? lol all magplars are running meteor/bats/soul strike/eots

+1

As I have already highlighted a few pages back in this thread. Templars who are still using Sword and Shield and DW (classic set up aka not converted to Destro cheese which is viable on literally any build/class) synergise best with Crescent Sweep for ultimate. It's cheap and very good burst, procs Burning light, only drawback being range and how it's so easily shuffled/dodged now changed this PTS.

Now it is stamina and basically a cheaper but worse DB in every possible scenario almost and anyone arguing for PvE lol, again no way CS is viable or will earn your stamplar a spot in competitive raids. So the change is only at the expense of magicka Templar using the only burst ultimate it had that was good imo.

As mentioned before destro is just broken and performs well on any class, meteor synergises the absolute worst with templar in comparison to any other class due to the fact it has no CC to go through block rendering Meteor wasted in most situations, bats is not a competent dmg ulti. It's a 'oh Sh**t let me use bats to not die to this zerg for a couple more secs to mist away or die anyway'

I see the Stamplars rejoicing because they've been thrown a bone, but if the changes goes live, everyone will be back to DBoS for PvP and Rend for PvE and next patches or so Crescent will be the next skill everyone cries for a rework because it serves no use and Templars will just have to lose the only low cost offensive ulti available to them and forced to slot a destro and grate more cheese across Cyrodiil.

Finally to the people who argue that DBoS is better for Mageplar anyways (Which isn't true test dmg yourself) but want a physical Crescent because it gives stamplars more burst and viability than DBoS already provides them, I can't be the only person seeing the flawed logic in this?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

For ESO PvP there is everything wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale with your CP until/If they address the system, hence the Stamina morphs we have today and why every other stam class was inferior to Stam DK at that point. It's about balancing the books not about magicka/stamina bias I couldn't care less about that. All skills should be meaningful/useful and my argument is CS and DBoS are very much the same so it only detracts from a certain playstyle without adding to another... Nor do you see me arguing about making stamina morphs magicka this is about reverting a change that just doesn't make much sense imo, Magicka builds lost DBoS, it was warranted it made sense, to remedy loss of DBoS ZoS buffed Crescent and now making it physical, it's one step forward two steps back.

They aren't the same at all, crescent sweep is near half the cost and the initial damage is equivalent to incap. Have you even tested the PTS?

I have actually and DBoS gave me better results personally for what it brings to the table, besides comparing the skill to another incap is not something we should be striving towards for this so called 'balance patch' don't you think?

josh.lackey_ESO · January 2017

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

Luthid · January 2017

I main a Templar healer, and also have a Templar tank. I raged at the BoL nerf and other Templar changes since launch, but I was completely unprepared for how upset I am about the stun being taken away from Blazing Spear. It's what finally drove me to sign up for the forums.

This change hurts my healer, it hurts my tank. There is no other reasonable cc skill for Templars. This is a serious issue for Eric's "come onto my house and we're gonna have a problem" theory. I read Rich's reasoning behind the change, and I did not lose one bit of ire about it. Rather, I lost even more respect for the devs. I beg that this change be reverted before U13 goes live.

templesus · January 2017

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

ellahellabella wrote: »

Yeah, we lost Dawnbreaker of Smiting so Cresent is the only cheap burst ult we have now

in the last year i dont recall seeing a single Crescent in a death recap. It gets changed and suddenly everyone was using it? lol all magplars are running meteor/bats/soul strike/eots

+1

As I have already highlighted a few pages back in this thread. Templars who are still using Sword and Shield and DW (classic set up aka not converted to Destro cheese which is viable on literally any build/class) synergise best with Crescent Sweep for ultimate. It's cheap and very good burst, procs Burning light, only drawback being range and how it's so easily shuffled/dodged now changed this PTS.

Now it is stamina and basically a cheaper but worse DB in every possible scenario almost and anyone arguing for PvE lol, again no way CS is viable or will earn your stamplar a spot in competitive raids. So the change is only at the expense of magicka Templar using the only burst ultimate it had that was good imo.

As mentioned before destro is just broken and performs well on any class, meteor synergises the absolute worst with templar in comparison to any other class due to the fact it has no CC to go through block rendering Meteor wasted in most situations, bats is not a competent dmg ulti. It's a 'oh Sh**t let me use bats to not die to this zerg for a couple more secs to mist away or die anyway'

I see the Stamplars rejoicing because they've been thrown a bone, but if the changes goes live, everyone will be back to DBoS for PvP and Rend for PvE and next patches or so Crescent will be the next skill everyone cries for a rework because it serves no use and Templars will just have to lose the only low cost offensive ulti available to them and forced to slot a destro and grate more cheese across Cyrodiil.

Finally to the people who argue that DBoS is better for Mageplar anyways (Which isn't true test dmg yourself) but want a physical Crescent because it gives stamplars more burst and viability than DBoS already provides them, I can't be the only person seeing the flawed logic in this?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

For ESO PvP there is everything wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale with your CP until/If they address the system, hence the Stamina morphs we have today and why every other stam class was inferior to Stam DK at that point. It's about balancing the books not about magicka/stamina bias I couldn't care less about that. All skills should be meaningful/useful and my argument is CS and DBoS are very much the same so it only detracts from a certain playstyle without adding to another... Nor do you see me arguing about making stamina morphs magicka this is about reverting a change that just doesn't make much sense imo, Magicka builds lost DBoS, it was warranted it made sense, to remedy loss of DBoS ZoS buffed Crescent and now making it physical, it's one step forward two steps back.

They aren't the same at all, crescent sweep is near half the cost and the initial damage is equivalent to incap. Have you even tested the PTS?

I have actually and DBoS gave me better results personally for what it brings to the table, besides comparing the skill to another incap is not something we should be striving towards for this so called 'balance patch' don't you think?

The key to balance is not nerfs, but buffs.

templesus · January 2017

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

BuddyAces · January 2017

Hmm I am wondering how the changes are affecting pve? Has anyone been doing any testing? It would be nice to know if I need to retire my magplar to an empty house. Or is this thread for pvp complaints only???

MalakithAlamahdi · January 2017

ManDraKE wrote: »

ellahellabella wrote: »

Yeah, we lost Dawnbreaker of Smiting so Cresent is the only cheap burst ult we have now

in the last year i dont recall seeing a single Crescent in a death recap. It gets changed and suddenly everyone was using it? lol all magplars are running meteor/bats/soul strike/eots

I've been using it pre 1.6 and so have quite some other people.

MalakithAlamahdi · January 2017

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

Cinbri · January 2017

1. I will just remind main current problem that will have disastrous effect if not being fixed: (Luminous)

2. Stop with Empowering Sweep. It will never be changed for stamina for same reason as Ferocious Leap was made magicka ult for dk, not Take Flight. Don't like - roll magicka. As it finally stoped missing targets that stands 5m infront of you and doing nothing, this ult may finally become viable.
3. Unstable Core still suffering by 25% dps nerf from Enduring Rays passive. Must be fixed.
4. Backlash - right now it became just buggy mess with battle spirit, for that reason it impossible to test in pvp. Comparable analysis how it changed based on pve I doubt can be counted as valid point.
5. Blazing Spear - fix to long-standing bugs and ticking bug will make this morph so much stronger. 8 ticks in 8m area is huge boost to dps in PvP:

For that reason Luminous must not just get fixed CC but get some tiny buff also.
6. Time bomb remain on dead enemies is cool feture against zergs but it would be even greater if it worked same as Vicious Death - to proc explosion on died enemy instead of continue it's countdown on corpse.
7. Still no visual clue when Honor proced or if Radiant Aura restore you magicka. While Purifying Light healings have same visual as Siphon heals, why not add magicka procs same visual as mana returns from Siphon Spirit?! (once again: this visual removed in U13, so why not add it for this debuff)

8. Radiant Destruction - it must get same treatment as Soul Strike - "Soul Strike: Removed 350 milliseconds of empty channeling time without another tick of damage occurring from this ability". Currently time from activating skill to time when target will be damage is kinda long. In PvP dynamic fights it means that target can be healed in time between you activated execute to a time when execute will hit(already healed/shielded target). Also currently it leads to 2 stupid situations: 1. when you activate execute but in time when it will hit enemy your teammates already killing it: as result your templar stuck at casting full channel on already dead body, that require you to cancel channel manually, like on my small screeshot how terrible it looks like when you stuck to beam dead enemy and loose precious time:

2. A.when you try to execute enemy that run away from you and spam purge - you can't land even 1 execute tick on him because time of him casting purge is equal to time of activating execute. Recap: any templar or enemy with purge can simply walk away from distance of execute while not being hit by it while executor will be constantly snared upon trying to activate channel.
B. also any enemy with interrupt by spamming it can fully negate your possibility to execute him as channel will be interrupted even before it will start ticking.
9. Radiant Glory - it is understanadble why damage of RD was nerfed. However it have huge negative impact on Glory morph as it working different ways and didn't have impact on current situation: when healbots standing behind zergs and spam it, Radiant Oppression morph had full benefit from it as it boosted damage, while spamming Radiant Glory wasn't effective for reason that it not boost damage but grant healing to caster: those who hide behind zerg never needed healings.
Now with nerfed damage - Oppression affected by it, but Glory that was never part of problem now negatively affected by it too, making this morph less viable in PvP in compare to other morph, as healing even from executing almost dead enemy became too low to be even noticable. In return of decreased damage it should get 4% healing buff.
10. Piercing Javelin - this skill still weak and CC of magicka morph is not viable, utility-cost is too low (just compare it with dk's Stonefist). How about make it unblockable, so it will counter permablockers, and more important - stamplars will get skill that can be used to fight those permablockers, as it is only class stamina build that can't deal with blocking target. Also they won't need to slot magicka skill Luminous Shards for that purpose.

Curragraigue · January 2017

Luthid wrote: »

I main a Templar healer, and also have a Templar tank. I raged at the BoL nerf and other Templar changes since launch, but I was completely unprepared for how upset I am about the stun being taken away from Blazing Spear. It's what finally drove me to sign up for the forums.

This change hurts my healer, it hurts my tank. There is no other reasonable cc skill for Templars. This is a serious issue for Eric's "come onto my house and we're gonna have a problem" theory. I read Rich's reasoning behind the change, and I did not lose one bit of ire about it. Rather, I lost even more respect for the devs. I beg that this change be reverted before U13 goes live.

I still haven't seen a reasonable explanation for it. A disorient with the other skill is not the same. I play all four classes and this one is the big problem for me. We have had this argument before, Temps need a stun so either put it back on Blazing or change the disorient to a stun on the other morph.

Lore_lai · January 2017

technohic wrote: »

Just think if all of us Templars could keep our mouth shut; we'd have a 30 m radius reveal stealth and a true death mark ability this next patch.

That's not the right mentality. Bugs should be fixed and you should not rely on unintended mechanics!
What saddens me though is that they only fix bugs that benefit us, yet leave us in the dust with other stuff, like Luminous Shards CC being utterly broken.

Not only that, but it is very disheartening when all other classes got feedback like "We're monitoring this and that" and Sorcs even got their candy back (and more!) after stomping their feet, but when we provided constructive feedback on why we need a working CC in the form of Luminous, we got crickets and tumbleweeds.

It's sad to see constructive feedback and proposals like @Cinbri gave be utterly ignored.

I choose not to equip Destro staff and cheese my way trough my encounters. I choose not to be Vampire (like 99.99% or the Templar population - gee, I wonder why...maybe you should post some charts on that and ask yourself why) and rely on better skills, outside of my class, that would synergize with my class 10x better than my actual class skills do. I try to, Zenimax, I try everyday - but with each and each patch, you're giving me less and less reason, and more reason to look outside my class.

Thank you for giving me one less decent class Ulti and one less class hard CC on top of all the other nerfs.
Do you want all Templars to be healbots?? Or "mage guards" sitting atop walls spamming Javelin and RD?!
If I put on destro staff and Destro Ullti, I get"accused" of running "cheese" despite the fact that most of my playtime in Cyro is in group of 2(!!). I get accused of being Vampire and using "cheese mist form" even when I am CLEARLY not Vampire. Are you even aware of the bullying?
There are a handful of us who even choose to be different - I guess we don't matter. I just want you to know how betrayed I feel.
I love Templar and will play it despite all the nerfs and all the accusations and bullying. I will play Templar because that is what I like. I don't care if tomorrow it's the most OP class or the most nerfed class - I will still play Templar.
I will stick with Templar through thick and thin -but every human has its limits.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

templesus · January 2017

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

You really must not play stamplar. DB simply does not hit hard like leap or incap and the dot is easily purified or healed through. The addition of crescent sweep will add high burst damage to the class without need of proc sets(I never use them) and because of our lack of sustain as mentioned in my detailed post before we are forced to suffer damage loss to compensate for it. I'm all for giving crescent back, as long as they buff our sustain so we won't need it for burst.

MalakithAlamahdi · January 2017

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

You really must not play stamplar. DB simply does not hit hard like leap or incap and the dot is easily purified or healed through. The addition of crescent sweep will add high burst damage to the class without need of proc sets(I never use them) and because of our lack of sustain as mentioned in my detailed post before we are forced to suffer damage loss to compensate for it. I'm all for giving crescent back, as long as they buff our sustain so we won't need it for burst.

You already got your substain fixed a bit now with the reduced cost of your spammable attack. We don't even have a decent stun anymore, and now our only decent ulti besides soulstrike is getting stolen for no reason. DB hits like a truck, even on my magicka characters the tooltip for it is higher than the other morph of sweep, and people already have less physical resistance than spell resistance to begin with. The 2H ulti can also hit like a truck and is rather cheap.

People complain about magplars being tanky healbots yet every tool we still have to do some kind of offensive is just getting stripped away.

How much regen do you have on your stamplar?

templesus · January 2017

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

You really must not play stamplar. DB simply does not hit hard like leap or incap and the dot is easily purified or healed through. The addition of crescent sweep will add high burst damage to the class without need of proc sets(I never use them) and because of our lack of sustain as mentioned in my detailed post before we are forced to suffer damage loss to compensate for it. I'm all for giving crescent back, as long as they buff our sustain so we won't need it for burst.

You already got your substain fixed a bit now with the reduced cost of your spammable attack. We don't even have a decent stun anymore, and now our only decent ulti besides soulstrike is getting stolen for no reason. DB hits like a truck, even on my magicka characters the tooltip for it is higher than the other morph of sweep, and people already have less physical resistance than spell resistance to begin with. The 2H ulti can also hit like a truck and is rather cheap.

People complain about magplars being tanky healbots yet every tool we still have to do some kind of offensive is just getting stripped away.

How much regen do you have on your stamplar?

I have 1800 on a redguard in 7 medium and sustain is still difficult. I have to run less damage because of it. The ability cost isn't the problem our problem is we have 0 means of Stam back except for lack luster repentance which also got nerfed. Crescent sweep on pts for me tooltips higher then DB and allows me to burst people without broken PoTL. Every stamplar anywhere will tell you dawnbreaker only seriously does damage to people with little resistance and or no impen/shields. That in combination with its cost and our lack of sustain forcing us to sacrifice damage equates to a situation where we have an ultimate that does little initial damage to anyone decently good at the game effectively eliminating possibility of 1vx due to lack of burst. Db is great on any class(stam sorcs) where you can run around with 500 recovery and sustain. As previously stated I'm all for giving back crescent sweep but our sustain ABSOLUTELY needs to be buffed. If you had read my detailed stamplar post a page ago you would have seen all this already.

MalakithAlamahdi · January 2017

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

You really must not play stamplar. DB simply does not hit hard like leap or incap and the dot is easily purified or healed through. The addition of crescent sweep will add high burst damage to the class without need of proc sets(I never use them) and because of our lack of sustain as mentioned in my detailed post before we are forced to suffer damage loss to compensate for it. I'm all for giving crescent back, as long as they buff our sustain so we won't need it for burst.

You already got your substain fixed a bit now with the reduced cost of your spammable attack. We don't even have a decent stun anymore, and now our only decent ulti besides soulstrike is getting stolen for no reason. DB hits like a truck, even on my magicka characters the tooltip for it is higher than the other morph of sweep, and people already have less physical resistance than spell resistance to begin with. The 2H ulti can also hit like a truck and is rather cheap.

People complain about magplars being tanky healbots yet every tool we still have to do some kind of offensive is just getting stripped away.

How much regen do you have on your stamplar?

I have 1800 on a redguard in 7 medium and sustain is still difficult. I have to run less damage because of it. The ability cost isn't the problem our problem is we have 0 means of Stam back except for lack luster repentance which also got nerfed. Crescent sweep on pts for me tooltips higher then DB and allows me to burst people without broken PoTL. Every stamplar anywhere will tell you dawnbreaker only seriously does damage to people with little resistance and or no impen/shields. That in combination with its cost and our lack of sustain forcing us to sacrifice damage equates to a situation where we have an ultimate that does little initial damage to anyone decently good at the game effectively eliminating possibility of 1vx due to lack of burst. Db is great on any class(stam sorcs) where you can run around with 500 recovery and sustain. As previously stated I'm all for giving back crescent sweep but our sustain ABSOLUTELY needs to be buffed. If you had read my detailed stamplar post a page ago you would have seen all this already.

I have read it, but a while ago. You do know that magplars run at around 2.5k regen to even keep up with it right? If you wear heavy you'll still need to heavy attack with resto staffs to keep up, so it's both of us that have that issue. That comes with having expensive skill, mag DK's have the same problem.

Taking away the only decent Ulti magplars have because stam doesnt have one either (in your opinion, I disagree with that) isn't a fix, it's shifting the problem. If you want to have decent substain you're going to have to run at high regen, im close to 3k regen on light to be able to keep it up, I also sacrifice a lot of potential damage for that. As I said, stamina Templar isn't the exception here. Magicka Templars have a lot worse choice without crescent than stamina has now with dawnbreaker.

Sound a bit odd to call dawnbreaker bad on a stamina char to have stamina Templars tell us Magicka to use it because it's better than crescent don't you think?

templesus · January 2017

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

You really must not play stamplar. DB simply does not hit hard like leap or incap and the dot is easily purified or healed through. The addition of crescent sweep will add high burst damage to the class without need of proc sets(I never use them) and because of our lack of sustain as mentioned in my detailed post before we are forced to suffer damage loss to compensate for it. I'm all for giving crescent back, as long as they buff our sustain so we won't need it for burst.

You already got your substain fixed a bit now with the reduced cost of your spammable attack. We don't even have a decent stun anymore, and now our only decent ulti besides soulstrike is getting stolen for no reason. DB hits like a truck, even on my magicka characters the tooltip for it is higher than the other morph of sweep, and people already have less physical resistance than spell resistance to begin with. The 2H ulti can also hit like a truck and is rather cheap.

People complain about magplars being tanky healbots yet every tool we still have to do some kind of offensive is just getting stripped away.

How much regen do you have on your stamplar?

I have 1800 on a redguard in 7 medium and sustain is still difficult. I have to run less damage because of it. The ability cost isn't the problem our problem is we have 0 means of Stam back except for lack luster repentance which also got nerfed. Crescent sweep on pts for me tooltips higher then DB and allows me to burst people without broken PoTL. Every stamplar anywhere will tell you dawnbreaker only seriously does damage to people with little resistance and or no impen/shields. That in combination with its cost and our lack of sustain forcing us to sacrifice damage equates to a situation where we have an ultimate that does little initial damage to anyone decently good at the game effectively eliminating possibility of 1vx due to lack of burst. Db is great on any class(stam sorcs) where you can run around with 500 recovery and sustain. As previously stated I'm all for giving back crescent sweep but our sustain ABSOLUTELY needs to be buffed. If you had read my detailed stamplar post a page ago you would have seen all this already.

I have read it, but a while ago. You do know that magplars run at around 2.5k regen to even keep up with it right? If you wear heavy you'll still need to heavy attack with resto staffs to keep up, so it's both of us that have that issue. That comes with having expensive skill, mag DK's have the same problem.

Taking away the only decent Ulti magplars have because stam doesnt have one either (in your opinion, I disagree with that) isn't a fix, it's shifting the problem. If you want to have decent substain you're going to have to run at high regen, im close to 3k regen on light to be able to keep it up, I also sacrifice a lot of potential damage for that. As I said, stamina Templar isn't the exception here. Magicka Templars have a lot worse choice without crescent than stamina has now with dawnbreaker.

Sound a bit odd to call dawnbreaker bad on a stamina char to have stamina Templars tell us Magicka to use it because it's better than crescent don't you think?

My magplar is a prefect and I don't zerg(or zerg surf or hold radiant in the back) at all, I've played magplar/stamplar since ps4 launch. I run 1800 recovery on my magplar DW/destro 5 kags 5 seducer 3 willpower and sustain fine because of channeled focus, no heavy attacks needed. I would imagine in light it'd be even easier. I have tried crescent sweep and find it underwhelming against people in heavy armor so I stick with meteor/bats or meteor/destro ult in sewers. The difference between stamina and magicka is magicka has vamp bane, blazing spear, radiant etc for added burst potential. Stamplars have none of that. And it was sarcasm when I said to use DB on magicka character because stamina characters had to use magicka ultimates for years. Maybe I should put #sarcasm or sonething.

MalakithAlamahdi · January 2017

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

You really must not play stamplar. DB simply does not hit hard like leap or incap and the dot is easily purified or healed through. The addition of crescent sweep will add high burst damage to the class without need of proc sets(I never use them) and because of our lack of sustain as mentioned in my detailed post before we are forced to suffer damage loss to compensate for it. I'm all for giving crescent back, as long as they buff our sustain so we won't need it for burst.

You already got your substain fixed a bit now with the reduced cost of your spammable attack. We don't even have a decent stun anymore, and now our only decent ulti besides soulstrike is getting stolen for no reason. DB hits like a truck, even on my magicka characters the tooltip for it is higher than the other morph of sweep, and people already have less physical resistance than spell resistance to begin with. The 2H ulti can also hit like a truck and is rather cheap.

People complain about magplars being tanky healbots yet every tool we still have to do some kind of offensive is just getting stripped away.

How much regen do you have on your stamplar?

I have 1800 on a redguard in 7 medium and sustain is still difficult. I have to run less damage because of it. The ability cost isn't the problem our problem is we have 0 means of Stam back except for lack luster repentance which also got nerfed. Crescent sweep on pts for me tooltips higher then DB and allows me to burst people without broken PoTL. Every stamplar anywhere will tell you dawnbreaker only seriously does damage to people with little resistance and or no impen/shields. That in combination with its cost and our lack of sustain forcing us to sacrifice damage equates to a situation where we have an ultimate that does little initial damage to anyone decently good at the game effectively eliminating possibility of 1vx due to lack of burst. Db is great on any class(stam sorcs) where you can run around with 500 recovery and sustain. As previously stated I'm all for giving back crescent sweep but our sustain ABSOLUTELY needs to be buffed. If you had read my detailed stamplar post a page ago you would have seen all this already.

I have read it, but a while ago. You do know that magplars run at around 2.5k regen to even keep up with it right? If you wear heavy you'll still need to heavy attack with resto staffs to keep up, so it's both of us that have that issue. That comes with having expensive skill, mag DK's have the same problem.

Taking away the only decent Ulti magplars have because stam doesnt have one either (in your opinion, I disagree with that) isn't a fix, it's shifting the problem. If you want to have decent substain you're going to have to run at high regen, im close to 3k regen on light to be able to keep it up, I also sacrifice a lot of potential damage for that. As I said, stamina Templar isn't the exception here. Magicka Templars have a lot worse choice without crescent than stamina has now with dawnbreaker.

Sound a bit odd to call dawnbreaker bad on a stamina char to have stamina Templars tell us Magicka to use it because it's better than crescent don't you think?

My magplar is a prefect and I don't zerg(or zerg surf or hold radiant in the back) at all, I've played magplar/stamplar since ps4 launch. I run 1800 recovery on my magplar DW/destro 5 kags 5 seducer and sustain fine because of channeled focus, no heavy attacks needed. I would imagine in light it'd be even easier. I have tried crescent sweep and find it underwhelming against people in heavy armor so I stick with meteor/bats or meteor/destro ult in sewers. The difference between stamina and magicka is magicka has vamp bane, blazing spear, radiant etc for added burst potential. Stamplars have none of that. And it was sarcasm when I said to use DB on magicka character because stamina characters had to use magicka ultimates for years. Maybe I should put #sarcasm or sonething.

Yea, with seducer. You got a set that pretty much does the same for stamina, I suggest you wear that one then. You lack a lot of damage with that setup, any of my stam chars wouldn't even feel it. Besides, meteor is useless without a decent stun, which they remove next patch. Bats doesn't really hit hard either.

With crescent I can burst someone down in one stun if they don't pay attention, it's a very good ulti if you use it well. I've Mained a templar since PC beta btw, it's not really a new class for me either.

templesus · January 2017

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

You really must not play stamplar. DB simply does not hit hard like leap or incap and the dot is easily purified or healed through. The addition of crescent sweep will add high burst damage to the class without need of proc sets(I never use them) and because of our lack of sustain as mentioned in my detailed post before we are forced to suffer damage loss to compensate for it. I'm all for giving crescent back, as long as they buff our sustain so we won't need it for burst.

You already got your substain fixed a bit now with the reduced cost of your spammable attack. We don't even have a decent stun anymore, and now our only decent ulti besides soulstrike is getting stolen for no reason. DB hits like a truck, even on my magicka characters the tooltip for it is higher than the other morph of sweep, and people already have less physical resistance than spell resistance to begin with. The 2H ulti can also hit like a truck and is rather cheap.

People complain about magplars being tanky healbots yet every tool we still have to do some kind of offensive is just getting stripped away.

How much regen do you have on your stamplar?

I have 1800 on a redguard in 7 medium and sustain is still difficult. I have to run less damage because of it. The ability cost isn't the problem our problem is we have 0 means of Stam back except for lack luster repentance which also got nerfed. Crescent sweep on pts for me tooltips higher then DB and allows me to burst people without broken PoTL. Every stamplar anywhere will tell you dawnbreaker only seriously does damage to people with little resistance and or no impen/shields. That in combination with its cost and our lack of sustain forcing us to sacrifice damage equates to a situation where we have an ultimate that does little initial damage to anyone decently good at the game effectively eliminating possibility of 1vx due to lack of burst. Db is great on any class(stam sorcs) where you can run around with 500 recovery and sustain. As previously stated I'm all for giving back crescent sweep but our sustain ABSOLUTELY needs to be buffed. If you had read my detailed stamplar post a page ago you would have seen all this already.

I have read it, but a while ago. You do know that magplars run at around 2.5k regen to even keep up with it right? If you wear heavy you'll still need to heavy attack with resto staffs to keep up, so it's both of us that have that issue. That comes with having expensive skill, mag DK's have the same problem.

Taking away the only decent Ulti magplars have because stam doesnt have one either (in your opinion, I disagree with that) isn't a fix, it's shifting the problem. If you want to have decent substain you're going to have to run at high regen, im close to 3k regen on light to be able to keep it up, I also sacrifice a lot of potential damage for that. As I said, stamina Templar isn't the exception here. Magicka Templars have a lot worse choice without crescent than stamina has now with dawnbreaker.

Sound a bit odd to call dawnbreaker bad on a stamina char to have stamina Templars tell us Magicka to use it because it's better than crescent don't you think?

My magplar is a prefect and I don't zerg(or zerg surf or hold radiant in the back) at all, I've played magplar/stamplar since ps4 launch. I run 1800 recovery on my magplar DW/destro 5 kags 5 seducer and sustain fine because of channeled focus, no heavy attacks needed. I would imagine in light it'd be even easier. I have tried crescent sweep and find it underwhelming against people in heavy armor so I stick with meteor/bats or meteor/destro ult in sewers. The difference between stamina and magicka is magicka has vamp bane, blazing spear, radiant etc for added burst potential. Stamplars have none of that. And it was sarcasm when I said to use DB on magicka character because stamina characters had to use magicka ultimates for years. Maybe I should put #sarcasm or sonething.

Yea, with seducer. You got a set that pretty much does the same for stamina, I suggest you wear that one then. You lack a lot of damage with that setup, any of my stam chars wouldn't even feel it. Besides, meteor is useless without a decent stun, which they remove next patch. Bats doesn't really hit hard either.

With crescent I can burst someone down in one stun if they don't pay attention, it's a very good ulti if you use it well. I've Mained a templar since PC beta btw, it's not really a new class for me either.

You lack damage(2400 spell damage unbuffed 41k max magicka) yet you have supporting abilities to aid your damage, the ones I mentioned. Unless you run 2h and bow all you have on a stamplar is rending slashes and biting jabs. No execute unless you back bar it, no other dots, nothing. We are pidgeonholed into the same setup all the other stam classes run. If I had a nickel for everytime it was 1v3 in sewers and I dropped reflective light elemental blockade and meteor and demolished people I'd be as rich as bill gates. But we aren't talking magicka vs stam here, this is about crescent sweep. We need it for any kind of burst potential unless they buff our sustain.

templesus · January 2017

Assuming no proc sets.
Stamblades have burst because they can run little recovery and sustain and have insane damage ouput because of incap. Stam sorcs have burst because they can run no recovery and sustain paired with their passives for extra damage and implosion. Stam dks have burst because they can run little recovery and sustain and leap can 1 shot half cyrodiils population on the right build. Stamplars have burst because they have to run high recovery to sustain.<

see how it makes little to no sense?

Joy_Division · January 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Glad you found the comments useful!

We're still evaluating the overall balance, and will continue to do so after PTS is back online and we collect more feedback when you have a chance to test the changes. There likely won't be any large, sweeping changes at this point, though.

That said, we know everyone is very passionate about their classes, but please keep your comments constructive. If you'd like to see something changed, let us know and explain why. Hop onto the PTS and try out the changes we've made so far, and explain why you do or don't like some of the things you see. Also, keep in mind if we don't implement some of your feedback, it could be due to a number of reasons. Balance is one of those things that affect the entire game, and when we're working with four different classes, there's a lot to consider. We are reading, though, and appreciate the time you take writing out your thoughts.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

I did this. I did a whole Templar run in Maelstrom arena (on a template). I also participated in some duels for PvP insight. This isn't theoretical complaining. This is hours of PTS experience.

See here:

Cute reward for the house by the way:

Weapon was a charged bow. Not so cute. Please do something with weapon and armor traits.

It's been months since I have run Maelstrom, so I was a little rusty. The most apparent thing I noticed on the PTS is that the Power Creep is real and Out of Control. Enemies, including bosses, died so fast it was difficult for me to assess just how effective the abilities are because vMA is no longer competitive content: I can ignore most of the mechanics even on a template with crappy gear and me being totally out of practice. I'm not sure why the developers feel the same basic combat mechanics that were introduced when we had 18,000 health and did 14K DPS works fine when we have 18,000 health and do 55K DPS, but I think that is the underlying cause for much of the complaints in PvP. Since there won't be any "large sweeping changes," I'll leave it at that and suggest ZoS look into that for the future.

*******As far as the changes to Templar:******

Stamina stuff I never ran a stamplar so I'm not the right person to ask. I'm pretty sure I would still use Dawnbreaker over Crescent Sweep though. I dislike Crescent because the range is too short and ultimates that just do damage have to do a lot of damage IMHO and this one doesn't.

Radiant aura. I tried this but stuff died so fast using the skill was actually a net loss. I am familiar enough with the magickasteal mechanic, however, to recognize that in competitive environments Vs. numerous enemies this would be an excellent resource management skill. I would want a templar in my raid using this so, This change has Joy's stamp of approval

Backlash Because I think this is ignoring Battle Spirit, I did not use in while dueling. Even with Battle Spirit, if this works out to be 10K, which is half my tooltip, then that is too strong. A sorcerer has to devote a lot toward damage to even get a 8K crit curse and that class is designed for burst unlike a templar. My gut tells me the "PvE Raid" mechanics this spell uses makes it trouble for PvP. This must be closely monitored when it gets bug-fixed and ZoS needs to implement a rapid balance should this turn out to be too strong.

Piercing Javelin To be honest, I never though the projectile speed was too slow or that it was difficult to hit targets with this spell. It's a buff, so I suppose as a templar I'll take it. I still think this ability is too expensive for what it does.

Radial Sweep I think the miss issues the spell has goes beyond it getting dodged as NPCs do not have Major Evasion. As far as the mgaicka version Empowering goes, I view this ultimate as strictly niche; a DPS will never use it, it won't improve Maelstrom Arena times, a tank will want Warhorn or something to buff the group, etc. I like the versatile mechanics, but the short range of this skill undermines it; it is just easier to use the destro ultimate.

Radiant Destruction : I felt the 21% damage decrease; it is significant and too much. The best reform proposal I have seen is to make the damage also scale with range. If you are right in the grill of the target, have it do that damage currently on Live. The further away you are, the less damage this does.

Healing Ritual: I ran solo so I was unable to test thus. When I see and end game competitive Trial Guilds have their templars use this spell to heal the tank in Hel-Ra hardmode or in Maw, then I will believe the concept of a delayed heal is worth it in this meta of one-shots and high burst damage. Until then, I will continue to use Healing Springs.

Eclipse Every time the PTS comes up, I make it very clear why people will not use this spell and with every patch it doesn’t get used. I don’t mean to toot my own horn, however nobody on the PC NA server has used this ability more than I have. Easily over 10,000 casts. It is too expensive. Its defensive effects only work against weak NPCs and inexperienced players. Its damage is too underwhelming. This patch has done nothing with respect to these issues.

I tried it again in vMA:

Magicka ran dry. It's easier to take the 3 seconds to kill the ranged mages
Useless against the Firespinners. That's what I need to reflect.

Used this against players:

Magicka ran dry.
Max spell cost for 2K damage. Way too inefficient
Reflected nothing one opponent used. Other opponent simply broke and took the small damage and enjoyed CC immunity
Stopped using it. Immediately did better

The offensive morph is the most inefficient skill in the game. These characters have the exact same gear.

A sorcerer will spend 2000 magicka to do 23,400 unblockable damage in 8.5 seconds.
A Templar will spend 6000 magicka to do 18,500 blockable damage in 14+ seconds.

I already wrote how and and why some minor changes to the skill would make it potentially more useful here. In short:

It. Is.Too. Inefficient. Adjust cost of spell or damage or augment its effects.
Make both morphs reflect. Damage morph is pointless because it's so inefficient. Dark morph heals. Unstable doesn't and instead does more damage. Just like old spell.
It reflects spells, not projectiles. Just like it used to.
Drak morph gives templar so minor buff. Unstable morph debuffs enemy. That way when CC broken, the templar still gets some benefit.

Blazing Spear - I didn't like the patch notes when I saw them. After playing with this on the PTS, I can 100% say in confidence that the changes contradict the reasoning given by @ZOS_RichLambert " [Blazing Spear] falls into the “simplify” category ... Simplifying some of the more intense rotations to make them a bit easier for players of all skill levels."

Veteran Maelstrom Arena is going to be harder for all players of all skill levels with this change. Yes, a pure DPS rotation against a target dummy will be a little easier and more efficient with the extra 2 seconds of damage. But the game isn't played against target dummies. The most efficient and versatile use of this skill was to stun dangerous adds while putting decent damage on them. In particular rounds 5 (Ice flows), 8 (fire spinners) and 9 (Final) is where this skill really shines because the sheer number of high damaging (and ranged) adds. Lacking the stun, I was overwhelmed and died at some points where I know I would not have been with the old spell.

Could I adjust my build? Yes, but it would be less efficient, less effective, and make my rotations and general survival more difficult. I tried Eclipse. Terrible. If I want the CC, then it's Javelin or Destructive reach, which are single target as opposed to AoE and lose the valuable Burning Light procs. The best solution is what it always is in ESO moar damage. So just live without the stuns, and throw up an extra shield or breath of life. With 600 CPs and the current power creep, this isn't much of an issue, but had this change been done when Orsinium was released, vMA would have been noticeably more difficult on a Templar.

Against players, Blazing Spear is hard to justify using. It's not easy to hit them in the first place and they just move out of the DoT. Templars who relied on the stun will once again have to put in multiple skills to make up for the loss of stun and AOE that this spell provided which, again, makes for more intense rotations and increases the difficulty a PvP templar will face.

Can't I just use Luminous? No. Because I PvE DPS. The thing ZoS does not seem to appreciate with morphs is sometimes one morph just has something that cannot be discarded. Blazing Spear is very good DPS skill; if I run end-game content or want to get a decent score in vMA, I have to take this morph. I am not going to respec my character whenever I do PVP. Asking me to do so is in no way "simplifying" the game.. Besides, Luminous is not a true CC. Disorient breaks on damage.

The whole routine of "Dont use of DoT and an enemy and yell in zone for your allies to not to put a DoT on the target" is not making the game easier.

ZoS, if your goal is too truly "simplify" things for a templar, revert the stun back to Blazing Spear. Here are other suggestions for a future patch that would make the Templar’s life simpler:

Puncturing Strikes: I hate that this locks the Templar into the direction they are facing. Getting it to actually hit a target four times requires a CC beforehand and this class has terrible CCs
Focused Charge: It’s so slow now. And I still get stuck in the animation. This ability was perfectly fine at Launch. Please just revert it back to what it once was.
Solar Barrage It self-snares and pales in comparison to other PBAoEs in the game.
Rune Focus I *have* to move in PvP ZoS! Do you not watch videos of Eye of the Storm or read what Negate does?
Light Weaver I do not even unlock this passive even though I have 40 skill points. That is how pointless it is.
We have 25K health and players do 55K DPS. The days of "stand your ground" in PvP are as dead as the 1.5 patch. All magicka human players need to move. Please make a new Alliance War skill that makes it possible for them to move away from ball-groups and their Encases, Negates, and Eyes of the Storm spam. I am tired of being an undead abomination just so I can move in PvP.

*******In short:******

I did what ZoS asked me to do. All of this feedback based on PTS playing against PvE and players. To sum up and prioritize what I think is most different from Live:

Radiant Aura - I think this is a compelling change. I'll give credit. Probably the most important templar change.
Blazing Spear - No stun makes Templar play unnecessarily more complicated.
Backlash - Will probably be too good after the bugfix.
Radiant Destruction - Was too good. Flat damage nerf is too high and does not address issues most players had with it.
Eclipse - I didn't use this before and won't use it again because it is the most inefficient skill in the game.
Radial Sweep - I didn't use this before because the range is too short.
Javelin - I don't think it had an issue hitting targets so not much to say here.

Other non-templar feedback

The minor Lifesteal is too low. I tried using Force Siphon against Stamina opponents. The difference between their HoTs and mine ... as a Templar was night and day.
A "normal" build of 27K health with Light Armor or Medium Armor stands zero chance of surviving a gank from a NB that knows what they are doing. It was not proc crits that they were abusing. This change is not going to help and only serve to make marginal sets useless, take strategy out of PvE, and unnecessarily complicating game mechanics. Revert and adds cooldown to proc damage. Occam's razor please.
Eye of the Storm is still too strong. Spamming Harness magicka or running away hoping the caster doesn't have a gap closer is the only counterplay. I fought a Nightblade using a Fire staff and even spamming honor of the dead was not good enough. Just use your original formula for this morph please.
The One-hand and Shield Skill Defensive Stance is bugged. It is supposed to reflect projectiles but does not reflect the Inferno version of Destruction Staff skill, Flame Touch.
Negate is OP An enemy DK uses a 250 ultimate that inconveniences my character with a heal debuff and puts a DoT on me. A sorcerer uses a 200 ultimate that completely shuts down my character, puts a DoT on me, and removes an enemy DK banner. And you nerfed Standard?
Light Armor in PvP works OK in duels. In the open world without a zerg for protection is a whole 'nother story.

That's it for now

MalakithAlamahdi · January 2017

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

You really must not play stamplar. DB simply does not hit hard like leap or incap and the dot is easily purified or healed through. The addition of crescent sweep will add high burst damage to the class without need of proc sets(I never use them) and because of our lack of sustain as mentioned in my detailed post before we are forced to suffer damage loss to compensate for it. I'm all for giving crescent back, as long as they buff our sustain so we won't need it for burst.

You already got your substain fixed a bit now with the reduced cost of your spammable attack. We don't even have a decent stun anymore, and now our only decent ulti besides soulstrike is getting stolen for no reason. DB hits like a truck, even on my magicka characters the tooltip for it is higher than the other morph of sweep, and people already have less physical resistance than spell resistance to begin with. The 2H ulti can also hit like a truck and is rather cheap.

People complain about magplars being tanky healbots yet every tool we still have to do some kind of offensive is just getting stripped away.

How much regen do you have on your stamplar?

I have 1800 on a redguard in 7 medium and sustain is still difficult. I have to run less damage because of it. The ability cost isn't the problem our problem is we have 0 means of Stam back except for lack luster repentance which also got nerfed. Crescent sweep on pts for me tooltips higher then DB and allows me to burst people without broken PoTL. Every stamplar anywhere will tell you dawnbreaker only seriously does damage to people with little resistance and or no impen/shields. That in combination with its cost and our lack of sustain forcing us to sacrifice damage equates to a situation where we have an ultimate that does little initial damage to anyone decently good at the game effectively eliminating possibility of 1vx due to lack of burst. Db is great on any class(stam sorcs) where you can run around with 500 recovery and sustain. As previously stated I'm all for giving back crescent sweep but our sustain ABSOLUTELY needs to be buffed. If you had read my detailed stamplar post a page ago you would have seen all this already.

I have read it, but a while ago. You do know that magplars run at around 2.5k regen to even keep up with it right? If you wear heavy you'll still need to heavy attack with resto staffs to keep up, so it's both of us that have that issue. That comes with having expensive skill, mag DK's have the same problem.

Taking away the only decent Ulti magplars have because stam doesnt have one either (in your opinion, I disagree with that) isn't a fix, it's shifting the problem. If you want to have decent substain you're going to have to run at high regen, im close to 3k regen on light to be able to keep it up, I also sacrifice a lot of potential damage for that. As I said, stamina Templar isn't the exception here. Magicka Templars have a lot worse choice without crescent than stamina has now with dawnbreaker.

Sound a bit odd to call dawnbreaker bad on a stamina char to have stamina Templars tell us Magicka to use it because it's better than crescent don't you think?

My magplar is a prefect and I don't zerg(or zerg surf or hold radiant in the back) at all, I've played magplar/stamplar since ps4 launch. I run 1800 recovery on my magplar DW/destro 5 kags 5 seducer and sustain fine because of channeled focus, no heavy attacks needed. I would imagine in light it'd be even easier. I have tried crescent sweep and find it underwhelming against people in heavy armor so I stick with meteor/bats or meteor/destro ult in sewers. The difference between stamina and magicka is magicka has vamp bane, blazing spear, radiant etc for added burst potential. Stamplars have none of that. And it was sarcasm when I said to use DB on magicka character because stamina characters had to use magicka ultimates for years. Maybe I should put #sarcasm or sonething.

Yea, with seducer. You got a set that pretty much does the same for stamina, I suggest you wear that one then. You lack a lot of damage with that setup, any of my stam chars wouldn't even feel it. Besides, meteor is useless without a decent stun, which they remove next patch. Bats doesn't really hit hard either.

With crescent I can burst someone down in one stun if they don't pay attention, it's a very good ulti if you use it well. I've Mained a templar since PC beta btw, it's not really a new class for me either.

You lack damage(2400 spell damage unbuffed 41k max magicka) yet you have supporting abilities to aid your damage, the ones I mentioned. Unless you run 2h and bow all you have on a stamplar is rending slashes and biting jabs. No execute unless you back bar it, no other dots, nothing. We are pidgeonholed into the same setup all the other stam classes run. If I had a nickel for everytime it was 1v3 in sewers and I dropped reflective light elemental blockade and meteor and demolished people I'd be as rich as bill gates. But we aren't talking magicka vs stam here, this is about crescent sweep. We need it for any kind of burst potential unless they buff our sustain.

Stamina has plenty of supporting abilities and can stack damage a lot higher. Also their set choices are genrally a lot stronger. They also face less resistance and can stack penetration higher by just slotting maces. I have every class in stamina and magicka en stamina is superior in pvp on pretty much every class. The only downside of most stamina classes is the lack of AoE and cleanse, which the templar actually has the latter of. Magicka is nice in groups as they can support, all you need to do against most magicka builds is just stun them every 6 seconds or root them in traps.

templesus wrote: »

Assuming no proc sets.
Stamblades have burst because they can run little recovery and sustain and have insane damage ouput because of incap. Stam sorcs have burst because they can run no recovery and sustain paired with their passives for extra damage and implosion. Stam dks have burst because they can run little recovery and sustain and leap can 1 shot half cyrodiils population on the right build. Stamplars have burst because they have to run high recovery to sustain.<
see how it makes little to no sense?

And yet every magicka class needs to do that and still does less damage overal. The other 3 classes are unbalanced as they can stack anything they want without it having downsides, that should be fixed, and not make another class unbeatable. ESO was never designed to have stam only builds, stamina used to be utility. They moment they tried to make stamina equal to magicka and added cp they ruined the balance like never before. You just need to stack more regen, it's really that easy. Stamplar got some nice buffs this update, the ulti is completely unneeded.

templesus · January 2017

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using an ultimate that doesn't scale of your cp. Don't believe me? Ask every stam class but stam dk pre dark brotherhood. Stamina deserves ults just as much as magicka does. Just because you have the argument "they won't use it anyway" doesn't give you reason to take it away. In that case, I want the other morph of overload, nova, healing ult, storm atronach, soul tether etc because "you won't use it anyaays". People need to quit the "magicka only" bs and realize they aren't the only ones in the game.

You're right. Let's give stam everything magicka gets, with extra damage, an added effect, and 20% less cost. Sounds balanced. Apart from group support/heals, the only magicka class holding its own right now is sorc. Stam builds are so vastly superior to magicka right now, and that's not even considering the proc set madness.

You obviously haven't been in cyrodiil lately...80% destro ult magplars and mag dks with grothdarr. And your comprehension levels must not be very high as it was obvious use of sarcasm to outline the flaw in his ideology that just because the other side doesn't use it doesn't also mean they shouldn't have it.

So one ulti is OP in Cyrodiil, that doesn't mean Magicka has good alternatives to use. Stamina always had the superior single target ulti's after they got dawnbreaker, they don't need sweep, while Magicka could very much use one.

The irony is that a lot of people will probably slot soul assault after this as it's the only magicka Ulti left for Templars that does decent damage and has low cost, yet it's an ulti lots of stamina builds rage on.

Crescent was a great ulti for magicka Templars to have some burst, especially now the stun is removed from spears as meteor will simply get blocked by every competent player.

You really must not play stamplar. DB simply does not hit hard like leap or incap and the dot is easily purified or healed through. The addition of crescent sweep will add high burst damage to the class without need of proc sets(I never use them) and because of our lack of sustain as mentioned in my detailed post before we are forced to suffer damage loss to compensate for it. I'm all for giving crescent back, as long as they buff our sustain so we won't need it for burst.

You already got your substain fixed a bit now with the reduced cost of your spammable attack. We don't even have a decent stun anymore, and now our only decent ulti besides soulstrike is getting stolen for no reason. DB hits like a truck, even on my magicka characters the tooltip for it is higher than the other morph of sweep, and people already have less physical resistance than spell resistance to begin with. The 2H ulti can also hit like a truck and is rather cheap.

People complain about magplars being tanky healbots yet every tool we still have to do some kind of offensive is just getting stripped away.

How much regen do you have on your stamplar?

I have 1800 on a redguard in 7 medium and sustain is still difficult. I have to run less damage because of it. The ability cost isn't the problem our problem is we have 0 means of Stam back except for lack luster repentance which also got nerfed. Crescent sweep on pts for me tooltips higher then DB and allows me to burst people without broken PoTL. Every stamplar anywhere will tell you dawnbreaker only seriously does damage to people with little resistance and or no impen/shields. That in combination with its cost and our lack of sustain forcing us to sacrifice damage equates to a situation where we have an ultimate that does little initial damage to anyone decently good at the game effectively eliminating possibility of 1vx due to lack of burst. Db is great on any class(stam sorcs) where you can run around with 500 recovery and sustain. As previously stated I'm all for giving back crescent sweep but our sustain ABSOLUTELY needs to be buffed. If you had read my detailed stamplar post a page ago you would have seen all this already.

I have read it, but a while ago. You do know that magplars run at around 2.5k regen to even keep up with it right? If you wear heavy you'll still need to heavy attack with resto staffs to keep up, so it's both of us that have that issue. That comes with having expensive skill, mag DK's have the same problem.

Taking away the only decent Ulti magplars have because stam doesnt have one either (in your opinion, I disagree with that) isn't a fix, it's shifting the problem. If you want to have decent substain you're going to have to run at high regen, im close to 3k regen on light to be able to keep it up, I also sacrifice a lot of potential damage for that. As I said, stamina Templar isn't the exception here. Magicka Templars have a lot worse choice without crescent than stamina has now with dawnbreaker.

Sound a bit odd to call dawnbreaker bad on a stamina char to have stamina Templars tell us Magicka to use it because it's better than crescent don't you think?

My magplar is a prefect and I don't zerg(or zerg surf or hold radiant in the back) at all, I've played magplar/stamplar since ps4 launch. I run 1800 recovery on my magplar DW/destro 5 kags 5 seducer and sustain fine because of channeled focus, no heavy attacks needed. I would imagine in light it'd be even easier. I have tried crescent sweep and find it underwhelming against people in heavy armor so I stick with meteor/bats or meteor/destro ult in sewers. The difference between stamina and magicka is magicka has vamp bane, blazing spear, radiant etc for added burst potential. Stamplars have none of that. And it was sarcasm when I said to use DB on magicka character because stamina characters had to use magicka ultimates for years. Maybe I should put #sarcasm or sonething.

Yea, with seducer. You got a set that pretty much does the same for stamina, I suggest you wear that one then. You lack a lot of damage with that setup, any of my stam chars wouldn't even feel it. Besides, meteor is useless without a decent stun, which they remove next patch. Bats doesn't really hit hard either.

With crescent I can burst someone down in one stun if they don't pay attention, it's a very good ulti if you use it well. I've Mained a templar since PC beta btw, it's not really a new class for me either.

You lack damage(2400 spell damage unbuffed 41k max magicka) yet you have supporting abilities to aid your damage, the ones I mentioned. Unless you run 2h and bow all you have on a stamplar is rending slashes and biting jabs. No execute unless you back bar it, no other dots, nothing. We are pidgeonholed into the same setup all the other stam classes run. If I had a nickel for everytime it was 1v3 in sewers and I dropped reflective light elemental blockade and meteor and demolished people I'd be as rich as bill gates. But we aren't talking magicka vs stam here, this is about crescent sweep. We need it for any kind of burst potential unless they buff our sustain.

Stamina has plenty of supporting abilities and can stack damage a lot higher. Also their set choices are genrally a lot stronger. They also face less resistance and can stack penetration higher by just slotting maces. I have every class in stamina and magicka en stamina is superior in pvp on pretty much every class. The only downside of most stamina classes is the lack of AoE and cleanse, which the templar actually has the latter of. Magicka is nice in groups as they can support, all you need to do against most magicka builds is just stun them every 6 seconds or root them in traps.

templesus wrote: »

Assuming no proc sets.
Stamblades have burst because they can run little recovery and sustain and have insane damage ouput because of incap. Stam sorcs have burst because they can run no recovery and sustain paired with their passives for extra damage and implosion. Stam dks have burst because they can run little recovery and sustain and leap can 1 shot half cyrodiils population on the right build. Stamplars have burst because they have to run high recovery to sustain.<
see how it makes little to no sense?

And yet every magicka class needs to do that and still does less damage overal. The other 3 classes are unbalanced as they can stack anything they want without it having downsides, that should be fixed, and not make another class unbeatable. ESO was never designed to have stam only builds, stamina used to be utility. They moment they tried to make stamina equal to magicka and added cp they ruined the balance like never before. You just need to stack more regen, it's really that easy. Stamplar got some nice buffs this update, the ulti is completely unneeded.

Stamplar has plenty of supporting abilities? Name them. The other stam classes have said abilities(hurricane, stam dk dots, assassins scourge). Stamplar does not. We got buffs but AS STATED SEVERAL TIMES unless our sustain is buff nothing changes. "Superior in PvP" is subjective. At 1vx sure, dueling magicka is better(mag dk, mag sorc, magplar have edge), group play magicka dominates. As someone who also has all classes, that statement is subjectively false.

Neoauspex · January 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno please confirm that a representative of your company has read the entirety of @Joy_Division 's most recent post in this thread.