ZoS, can you please update us on your plans to deal with multiple proc sets?

arkansas_ESO · October 2016

Not to say proc builds aren't overperforming, but I'd attribute the drop in campaign population more to dueling than to them.

Most people playing ESO these days are more in it for the Elder Scrolls aspect than for the MMO aspect, Elder Scrolls has never been about huge battles (remember the Battle for Bruma that had a whopping 8 NPCs between both sides? Or the Battle for Whiterun that had a whopping 12 NPCs?) but about exploration and casual solo-friendly play. Dueling better suits this playstyle as it's something you can do with a group of friends in between dungeons or questing, and you lose nothing when you die, unlike Cyrodiil where you face a long ride back to the battle, or the Imperial City, where you stand to lose stones.

Alucardo · October 2016

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Not to say proc builds aren't overperforming, but I'd attribute the drop in campaign population more to dueling than to them.

And farming. Looking at my friends list (which most of them I met in PVP), they are all doing dungeons or farming overland sets right now.
Having said that, a few of them have stopped going to Cyro because of the state of PVP right now, and have limited themselves to PVE. Myself included.

Biro123 · October 2016

I was on the side of agreeing that procs are bad - now I'm not so sure. You have to ask the question - at what level should PVP be balanced? I think we all know it is geared for large-scale not small-scale.

Take organised group play.. you have a group sticking together, with the stam players spamming rapids, magicka players spamming purge, give them proxy-det, new staff ulti's (the ones that are centred on the player), throw in a bit of VD and a lot of healing - put them in a fairly enclosed space (tower/keep/gate) and you get a constant ball of death moving at constant high speed, mowing down any and all who come in range. And guess what? Its the Magicka builds that are doing all the damage here.

I honestly think the proc sets and heavy armour buffs are there to give soloers/pugs half a fighting chance against this. Are proc sets too strong in 1v1? - arguably. Is a heavy armour tank build too strong in 1v1 - arguably.. Are they too strong in larger scale engagements? I don't think so.

Yes, it means you can both do high damage and take high damage with a hvy armour proc build, but surely put one against the other, and that extra damage vs extra defence kind of evens out to some degree? You can still go to extremes and build for pure tank and survive half a pug zerg for minutes on end. You can still go for high burst and do massive burst from stealth - and with the proc help still take down heavy armour wearers quickly. These builds can either survive the organised group (but do no damage) - or take down one of them quickly (but die in the process) - seems ok to me.

At the end of the day, the sets are here, the new ulti's are here, and it just seems like we have those that are adapting, those who don't want to, and those who are only looking at it from a small-scale/1v1 perspective.

Tyrion87 · October 2016

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Valencer · October 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Almost noone uses viper, selene, tremorscale and widowmaker in PvE lol. Even velidreth doesnt get much use anymore because kra'gh.

Come on, use your brain. It's actively destroying PvP and does nothing in PvE where there's far better gear options for DPS.

Alucardo · October 2016

Valencer wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Almost noone uses viper, selene, tremorscale and widowmaker in PvE lol. Even velidreth doesnt get much use anymore because kra'gh.

Come on, use your brain. It's actively destroying PvP and does nothing in PvE where there's far better gear options for DPS.

Boom. Nailed it

Tyrion87 · October 2016

Valencer wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Almost noone uses viper, selene, tremorscale and widowmaker in PvE lol. Even velidreth doesnt get much use anymore because kra'gh.

Come on, use your brain. It's actively destroying PvP and does nothing in PvE where there's far better gear options for DPS.

I see many people using these sets also in PvE. I agree some of them fit the PvP playstyle more but it's all about variety of choices. Not everyone needs to / has to wear only Infallible Aether or Vicious Ophidian + TBS.

Jaronking · October 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Are you honestly telling me that you run multiple proc sets in PVE?Especially since running multiple proc sets would lower your DPs in dungeons?Harder for you to kill world bosses?Your gimping yourself by using multiple proc sets so what's the issue with them being change.It seems your issue really is that it affects PVP and so you don't want it change even if it doesn't affect you.

Most of us are asking that only 1 proc set can be activated at a time and their 2-3 second cool down between the other set procs. Personal I say it should he a 10 second cool down between procs.

Alucardo · October 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Almost noone uses viper, selene, tremorscale and widowmaker in PvE lol. Even velidreth doesnt get much use anymore because kra'gh.

Come on, use your brain. It's actively destroying PvP and does nothing in PvE where there's far better gear options for DPS.

I see many people using these sets also in PvE. I agree some of them fit the PvP playstyle more but it's all about variety of choices. Not everyone needs to / has to wear only Infallible Aether or Vicious Ophidian + TBS.

I tried Viper in PVE, but I found I was getting more damage with sets that have a more constant bonus, like NMG, Automaton, or Sunderflame.
Viper gives you burst, but not sustained damage, which is why it excels in PVP. I'm not saying it's weak in PVE either, it's just not BiS or anything.

Tyrion87 · October 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Are you honestly telling me that you run multiple proc sets in PVE?Especially since running multiple proc sets would lower your DPs in dungeons?Harder for you to kill world bosses?Your gimping yourself by using multiple proc sets so what's the issue with them being change.It seems your issue really is that it affects PVP and so you don't want it change even if it doesn't affect you.

Most of us are asking that only 1 proc set can be activated at a time and their 2-3 second cool down between the other set procs. Personal I say it should he a 10 second cool down between procs.

Excuse me but where exactly I wrote that I use multiple proc sets for PvE? I'm mag and the only proc set I use for PvE is Ilambris.

And my previous comment was general - it referred to the arguments that proc sets need to be gone from this game or nerfed somehow.

So don't push into my mouth words that I didn't use.

covenant_merchant · October 2016

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I've said this earlier and I will say it again here: There is no problem with dmg proc sets. The problem is, that the numbers are simply too strong (compare Ashen Grip with any set and you can also say that proc sets are useless). But the numbers from some other non proc sets are too strong too. This pure proc builds have really low defense and if they can't get a lucky they die most of the time, it's not as easy to play as people say. The power of drop sets is just too strong... take Lich, Necropotence, Spinners or Burning Spellweave for example. All magicka based sets which are also much stronger than the magicka craft sets.

I've talked to many people from NA on the PTS and it's a bit disturbing how weak they talk magicka builds. I mean on EU there is a lot QQ about stamina too, but not on that level. I don't know NA live server, but on EU people start realising how strong magicka actually is (sure, it depends on the class but Necroblade for example should defeat most stam builds in 1vs1 and outperforms all stambuilds in group pvp by a large margin because of the destro ult). I wouldn't be surprised for a second if magicka will be the Meta in a few weeks because of that destro staff ultimate. And don't forget about that new food which helps magicka a lot.

I find it also disturbing that so many complain about stamina proc sets, but nobody complains about Skoria or Infernal Guardian. Hey, they are magicka sets, so they can't be OP I guess

Valkyn is only suited for dot builds and has a lower proc chance and longer cooldown. Compare that to 20%/10% on all kinds of damage, 50% on taunt and 4 second cooldown that can be used by any stam build. If Valkyn would proc on any damage, and not just dot based, it would be suited for all magicka builds in the same way stamina sets are. (I'm not arguing to change valkyn, just saying that it's far more specific than stamina undaunted sets).

As for Infernal Guardian, same as Nerieneth. You can side-step it. Seriously, maybe open world when confronted with a pack of enemies, you can hit one or two for what? 2k damage, which they will shrug off because of heavy armor. If anything it will only serve to give them resources back and increase their own spell/weapon damage. I think Grothdarr is more effective than Infernal Guardian, so if people would complain about something, that would be it.

And magicka sets are far more specific. Spinner only counters heavy armor and is useless against shields. Necropotence is conditional on pets, and while there are awesome pet sorcs out there, the pets themselves suck. Their damage isn't buffed by spinner, or any other damage buff sets, and their resistances are weak. And once they disappear, good luck going through that whole recasting animation that any decent player will bash/streak through/w.e. Lich is great though, but even so, sustain for stamina builds with black rose is better than anything you would get with lich. And Spellweave is conditional on your fire damage output, again not suited for all magicka classes/builds.

It's as if Viper only proc'ed on poison damage with a 10% chance instead of an uptime of 100% every 4 seconds on any kind of damage. Seems to me like there is a difference.

I don't think stamina skills per se are inbalanced. The sets however, are.

Taylor_MB · October 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Wait, so you've only had fun in PvE since proc sets were introduced? Don't be ridiculous. Not a single person has suggested getting rid of proc sets, just some sensible balancing required. A light attack should not deal 12k+ dmg (posting this screenshot yet again to demonstrate how simple minded combat has become with lack of counterplay) (this dmg is double against NPC's).

ESO%20Combat%20Log%20Screen.png

It use to be people had to build for glass cannon, if they got the drop on you it was hard, often impossible, to recover. But these peoples names got recognised, as soon as people see them they get targeted (Blueberry Tautersauce in PC/NA AS for example). Glass cannons use to either kill immediately, or be out of stamina after 2 dodge rolls and easy to kill, now people can be extremely tanky (not a bad thing) but use multiple proc sets + ultimate to instantly and easily do 15k+ dmg (conservatively).

Valencer · October 2016

kasa-obake wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I've said this earlier and I will say it again here: There is no problem with dmg proc sets. The problem is, that the numbers are simply too strong (compare Ashen Grip with any set and you can also say that proc sets are useless). But the numbers from some other non proc sets are too strong too. This pure proc builds have really low defense and if they can't get a lucky they die most of the time, it's not as easy to play as people say. The power of drop sets is just too strong... take Lich, Necropotence, Spinners or Burning Spellweave for example. All magicka based sets which are also much stronger than the magicka craft sets.

I've talked to many people from NA on the PTS and it's a bit disturbing how weak they talk magicka builds. I mean on EU there is a lot QQ about stamina too, but not on that level. I don't know NA live server, but on EU people start realising how strong magicka actually is (sure, it depends on the class but Necroblade for example should defeat most stam builds in 1vs1 and outperforms all stambuilds in group pvp by a large margin because of the destro ult). I wouldn't be surprised for a second if magicka will be the Meta in a few weeks because of that destro staff ultimate. And don't forget about that new food which helps magicka a lot.

I find it also disturbing that so many complain about stamina proc sets, but nobody complains about Skoria or Infernal Guardian. Hey, they are magicka sets, so they can't be OP I guess

I don't think stamina skills per se are inbalanced. The sets however, are.

This, basically. Try playing a medium armour build without proc sets right now. It's not nearly as faceroll as all the heavy armour proc builds running amok right now.

But we're talking about ZOS here. These proc sets are here to stay and they will probably end up nerfing some core stamina skills because of overpowered gear, further driving people towards abusing those proc sets as much as they can.

These proc sets simply shouldnt be in the game the way they are. Imo, adding a global cooldown to these sets changes very little since even just using 1 proc set like viper is really a no-brainer at the moment. Theyre simply too strong.

Tyrion87 · October 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Almost noone uses viper, selene, tremorscale and widowmaker in PvE lol. Even velidreth doesnt get much use anymore because kra'gh.

Come on, use your brain. It's actively destroying PvP and does nothing in PvE where there's far better gear options for DPS.

I see many people using these sets also in PvE. I agree some of them fit the PvP playstyle more but it's all about variety of choices. Not everyone needs to / has to wear only Infallible Aether or Vicious Ophidian + TBS.

I tried Viper in PVE, but I found I was getting more damage with sets that have a more constant bonus, like NMG, Automaton, or Sunderflame.
Viper gives you burst, but not sustained damage, which is why it excels in PVP. I'm not saying it's weak in PVE either, it's just not BiS or anything.

I fully agree but such thinking has one basic flaw.

When I run vet trials, vMA or vet DLC dungeons, I always use my best gear I have got so far (TBS or Julianos, Ilambris, gold IA jewelry, vMA inferno staff) just to pull the highest DPS as possible. But in some easier content like vanilla dungeons or solo questing I would like to test some other funny builds from time to time cuase in such places the highest possible DPS does not matter that much. E.g. in easier content I like to play as a frost mage - it's not BiS in terms of DPS but gives a lot of pleasure when you see Winterborn and Iceheart proc (both of these sets are proc-based and wearing them both at the same time gives you a nice feel of a true frost mage). As such, potential nerf to proc sets in PvP should not affect PvE. That is my point of view.

Lava_Croft · October 2016

I applaud the effort, but what makes you think that ZOS will all of a sudden start to act sensibly when it comes to PvP? The latest patch is the clearest indication one can get that PvP is just not that important to ZOS. I honestly wonder what Wheeler and his actual experience with creating PvP games has to say about the current meta, but I'm afraid we'll never get a straight answer from him due to company politics.

Jaronking · October 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

Are you honestly telling me that you run multiple proc sets in PVE?Especially since running multiple proc sets would lower your DPs in dungeons?Harder for you to kill world bosses?Your gimping yourself by using multiple proc sets so what's the issue with them being change.It seems your issue really is that it affects PVP and so you don't want it change even if it doesn't affect you.

Most of us are asking that only 1 proc set can be activated at a time and their 2-3 second cool down between the other set procs. Personal I say it should he a 10 second cool down between procs.

Excuse me but where exactly I wrote that I use multiple proc sets for PvE? I'm mag and the only proc set I use for PvE is Ilambris.

And my previous comment was general - it referred to the arguments that proc sets need to be gone from this game or nerfed somehow.

So don't push into my mouth words that I didn't use.

Than the changes asked for doesn't affect your game at all like I said no one use multiple proc sets in PVe only in PVP that's the problem.Adding a global cool down so 2 or more procs sets can not proc at the same time.As I said before doesn't affect PVE and no need to remove proc sets from PVP.These sets need to be balanced which can be done without completely gutting them for PVE while having them balanced for us.

You statement also said without saying it don't Nerf PVE because of PVP balancing which many people who mainly PVE has posted even when things don't affect PVE because PVE upset they have to light attack a mob one more time.

Saint_Bud · October 2016

This sets are the easy way pvp. Thats why they dont will change it, because to many people like it. They just like to win fights and with this sets they are able to do it. It says all thats able to play with 5 blackrose 5 viper monsterprocset and taken the mundus for more crit for a high dps, high substan and tanky build in one. A global cooldown on procs will changes nothing. Btw pet builds are also brocken.

Derra · October 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Not to say proc builds aren't overperforming, but I'd attribute the drop in campaign population more to dueling than to them.

And farming. Looking at my friends list (which most of them I met in PVP), they are all doing dungeons or farming overland sets right now.
Having said that, a few of them have stopped going to Cyro because of the state of PVP right now, and have limited themselves to PVE. Myself included.

The rgn loot system allover the place makes ppl just want to kill themselves. No matter how much effort a person puts in - there is no way to get success in a reasonable timeframe when interested in dungeon sets.

Biro123 · October 2016

Saint_Bud wrote: »

This sets are the easy way pvp. Thats why they dont will change it, because to many people like it. They just like to win fights and with this sets they are able to do it. It says all thats able to play with 5 blackrose 5 viper monsterprocset and taken the mundus for more crit for a high dps, high substan and tanky build in one. A global cooldown on procs will changes nothing. Btw pet builds are also brocken.

See, this confuses me. What makes it easy? Lets assume this is the standard setup for stam PVP. What does this really give that is so strong. Is it the heavy armour making them unkillable? Or is it the viper proc making them instakill everyone else?

Wait a minute? Immovable object vs unstoppable force?! Isn't there balance there somewhere? Seems to me, the only place balance doesn't exist is if one of the combatants isn't built properly for the current PVP game.

Sort your gear out - and lets face it - most gear isn't hard to get in this game.

Master_Kas · October 2016

PvPd some hours today, like 75% if not more are Blackrose+Tremorscale+Viper builds running around thinking they are good.

Nerf won't happen. ZOS wants everyone to feel like a superhero and keep playing the game, instead of learning to play (by dying and learning from mistakes).

Biro123 · October 2016

Master_Kas wrote: »

PvPd some hours today, like 75% if not more are Blackrose+Tremorscale+Viper builds running around thinking they are good.

Nerf won't happen. ZOS wants everyone to feel like a superhero and keep playing the game, instead of learning to play (by dying and learning from mistakes).

Seems to me that it doesn't stop you from dying.. I remember you flattening me a few times the other week on your stamblade - with no procs - just really hard initial burst that I couldn't recover from. Was sat on siege in the middle of Nickel surrounded by allies on one of them. Was quite impressed by that.

Saint_Bud · October 2016

Biro123 wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

This sets are the easy way pvp. Thats why they dont will change it, because to many people like it. They just like to win fights and with this sets they are able to do it. It says all thats able to play with 5 blackrose 5 viper monsterprocset and taken the mundus for more crit for a high dps, high substan and tanky build in one. A global cooldown on procs will changes nothing. Btw pet builds are also brocken.

See, this confuses me. What makes it easy? Lets assume this is the standard setup for stam PVP. What does this really give that is so strong. Is it the heavy armour making them unkillable? Or is it the viper proc making them instakill everyone else?

Wait a minute? Immovable object vs unstoppable force?! Isn't there balance there somewhere? Seems to me, the only place balance doesn't exist is if one of the combatants isn't built properly for the current PVP game.

Sort your gear out - and lets face it - most gear isn't hard to get in this game.

What it make it op? High damage with no penalty in substain and defance. Burst builds should have there place, but burst, defance and substain in one? Once players choose between this 3 things. Now you can have all un one. And i dont say thats are just stam builds, also blazplars and other trollbuilds get out of controll

Manoekin · October 2016

Biro123 wrote: »

Saint_Bud wrote: »

This sets are the easy way pvp. Thats why they dont will change it, because to many people like it. They just like to win fights and with this sets they are able to do it. It says all thats able to play with 5 blackrose 5 viper monsterprocset and taken the mundus for more crit for a high dps, high substan and tanky build in one. A global cooldown on procs will changes nothing. Btw pet builds are also brocken.

See, this confuses me. What makes it easy? Lets assume this is the standard setup for stam PVP. What does this really give that is so strong. Is it the heavy armour making them unkillable? Or is it the viper proc making them instakill everyone else?

Wait a minute? Immovable object vs unstoppable force?! Isn't there balance there somewhere? Seems to me, the only place balance doesn't exist is if one of the combatants isn't built properly for the current PVP game.

Sort your gear out - and lets face it - most gear isn't hard to get in this game.

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

12k damage from a light attack. Even siege monkeys know how to left click, and now you're putting siege level damage into the light attacks of people who actually know how to use abilities as well.

RadioheadSh0t · October 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

I really detest this attitude by PvE players, it's essentially saying "I don't care about PvP balance since I don't PvP, therefore PvP players just have to suck it up and deal with terrible balance and outrageous proc sets that take no skill."

RadioheadSh0t · October 2016

The fact is that Viper is the head-and-shoulders main offender right now.

Sure, some other proc sets are high performing right now, but if you gave a hard nerf to Viper, you'd do a ton to balance these proc sets.

Tremorscale, Velidreth, Selene, etc., don't give me too many problems on their own, but combine that with Viper and, to put it bluntly, it's disgustingly bad game balance.

Master_Kas · October 2016

Biro123 wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

PvPd some hours today, like 75% if not more are Blackrose+Tremorscale+Viper builds running around thinking they are good.

Nerf won't happen. ZOS wants everyone to feel like a superhero and keep playing the game, instead of learning to play (by dying and learning from mistakes).

Seems to me that it doesn't stop you from dying.. I remember you flattening me a few times the other week on your stamblade - with no procs - just really hard initial burst that I couldn't recover from. Was sat on siege in the middle of Nickel surrounded by allies on one of them. Was quite impressed by that.

These days if I do engage in melee combat, I mostly die to peoples gapcloser + lightattack + ransack (and all the procs that brings xD)
The alchemist+marksman build I run has some nice burst, but easy counterable by just holding block. It works wonders against unaware targets tough ^^

Tyrion87 · October 2016

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

I really detest this attitude by PvE players, it's essentially saying "I don't care about PvP balance since I don't PvP, therefore PvP players just have to suck it up and deal with terrible balance and outrageous proc sets that take no skill."

But I clearly gave my suggestion to resolve this problem, by disabling proc sets in PvP. Introducing cooldown after one proc, suggested in this thread, is also a nice option provided that it will be introduced only in Cyrodiil, without affecting PvE.

What I detest is when problems in PvP are being solved to the detriment of PvE (e.g. massive nerf to dmg shields with DB).

Alucardo · October 2016

Tyrion87 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

I really detest this attitude by PvE players, it's essentially saying "I don't care about PvP balance since I don't PvP, therefore PvP players just have to suck it up and deal with terrible balance and outrageous proc sets that take no skill."

What I detest is when problems in PvP are being solved to the detriment of PvE (e.g. massive nerf to dmg shields with DB).

Hey mate, remember when my crit surge was nerfed because ZOS said sorcs were healing too much in Maelstrom arena? Yeah. You can be quiet now.

Biro123 · October 2016

Saint_Bud wrote: »

What it make it op? High damage with no penalty in substain and defance. Burst builds should have there place, but burst, defance and substain in one? Once players choose between this 3 things. Now you can have all un one. And i dont say thats are just stam builds, also blazplars and other trollbuilds get out of controll

You miss my point though. Is it still high damage if its hitting high defence? Is it still high defence if getting hit by high damage? It's not like damage has gone up without the defence - That would be unbalanced. It's not like defence has gone up without damage going up - cos again that would be unbalanced. The fact that you (and your opponent) can get high damage with high defence is exactly the thing that balances it for PVP.

And you know what? You can drop the defence part and go 100% damage and still flatten these best of both builds very, very quickly. You can drop the damage, go full defence and still be able to indefinitely tank these best of both builds(till they run out of resources then you have them). Its not like they give you MAX dmg and MAX defence all in one. its just more than it used to be, and ppl have to adjust.

Tyrion87 · October 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, please no.

PvPers have always been the loudest screamers in this game. Don't destroy the fun of playing PvE with these proc sets just because the minority of players started to scream again.

The only solution to this, which would not harm any players, is to disable proc sets in Cyrodiil. But don't change them/nerf them/delete them from the game just because of PvP.

E.g. you have listened to a few players who were crying about how will they get lower level mats after One Tamriel, and introduced the shipment of these mats after completion of almost every crafting writ. And what? These screamers are still not satisfied because it's not enough for them, while most of us get bunch of worthless materials.

I really detest this attitude by PvE players, it's essentially saying "I don't care about PvP balance since I don't PvP, therefore PvP players just have to suck it up and deal with terrible balance and outrageous proc sets that take no skill."

What I detest is when problems in PvP are being solved to the detriment of PvE (e.g. massive nerf to dmg shields with DB).

Hey mate, remember when my crit surge was nerfed because ZOS said sorcs were healing too much in Maelstrom arena? Yeah. You can be quiet now.

Why so rude?

And like the surge nerf would not affect PvE as well... nobody wanted this and nobody benefited from this. That's the difference.