ZoS, can you please update us on your plans to deal with multiple proc sets?

Joy_Division

ZOS_JohanaB wrote:

We've closed this thread for lack of constructive conversation. We understand your frustration but we ask that if you wish to express it you do so in a more productive manner.

@Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler

OK.

If I am “more productive” than the 20 or so threads ZoS has closed, down, can ZoS at least in return be as thoughtful and productive in a basic “state of PvP, here is where we are thinking of going update” as I am in this thread?

In my humble opinion, I think most of the complaints by PvPers on this forum are a little overstated and with the exception of proc-set builds and those brave hardcore magicka DKs, there is in most cases, a reasonably competitive balance out there. This does not mean I enjoy the near infinite sustain-high heal-high burst-high damage avoidance/mitigation that most specs can roll out in Cyrodiil. However, since it is not that difficult to make a build that does this (of course it’s quite another to play it effectively), I would attribute most deaths and defeats due to the player’s mistake or circumstance than to poor balance. In short, I disagree with most of the “Nerf X” or “X is cancerous build” threads and feel they are made from subjective and myopic frustration.

There is, however, one issue that needs IMMEDIATE attention:

Multiple instantaneous high damage procs. There is no need to rehash what has been said for months. There reasons for addressing the issue now are many and obvious:

Most importantly, just 6 weeks ago or so on the NA server, both standard PvP campaigns were fully locked (Trueflame with a 40+ queue!) and even the non-CP one had up to three bars and was bustling with action. Now, 1 bar pops are so common except Trueflame, which I can get into without a que. I already farmed my gear. Multiple sets already. People aren’t PvPing.

This is a critical issue and needs the entire ESO PvP community’s input. I know you work hard on your internal testing, but we’ve been frustrated with this for months. What if your well-intended resolution/fix doesn’t quite work out in the next patch? Then we will have to wait another balance cycle and thus will have been plagued by this proc meta that has driven some many away for over a year!. For the love of the 8 divines, can you please recognize the importance of this issue and make an exception to your usual procedure of no-balance change without a patch and let us help you out with the ideas you are tossing about by trying the most promising one you are thinking of on the Live server? Yes, please, please, please use me as a testing dummy: I would much prefer that to insta-dying one more time to a viper, velidreth, widomaker simultaneous proc.

And, I’m sure it needs not be said but this is so important that I’m taking no chance, the “solution” should not be to give magicka users the same ability to have their own ridiculous procs. In particular, I don’t find it healthy that everyone just goes for damage damage damage sets, but it would be at least bearable if these things did not proc at the same time on demand.

It's only October. Are you really going to make us suffer through this terrible mechanic for months ... especially since we have already suffered for months! Please, please, please put for once be a bit proactive here and let us give you some feedback so Update 13 can roll out with a solid mechanic already in place to prevent proc set abuse. Why do we have to beg for this logical, efficient solution that 95% of your community desperately wants? It makes zero sense and begs for an explanation from Zos!

The simplest and easiest to implement band-aid fix that has been floated around is to add a global cooldown to insta-damage procs. Just try it out please and see how it works out. If it doesn’t, then fine, we gave it a go and that way we’ll at least have narrowed down the options so that ZoS has more data to come up with something better for the next balance patch. If it does work, great, then that’s more time for ZoS to develop other areas and a better PvP for all of us starting today.

• It is not necessary to nerf PvE. Let’s not ruin their part of ESO for a specific Cyrodiil problem
• Thus make it part of the Battlespirit mechanic.
• I have no problem with DoT and debuff procs, leave them alone
• A global cooldown of 2 seconds is enough time for a player who is hit by a proc to recognize the damage and react accordingly before the next one hit. 1 second is not enough to react and fire off another action. I could live with a 3 second cooldown, though we have so many methods of damage mitigation/avoidance that I would deem anything longer overkill.

I am also of the belief that there are 2 sets that are particularly overperforming: the tremorscale and widowmaker. Tremorscale does way too much (AOE damage, almost on demand proc, high damage, long 70% snare) for a 4 second cooldown. Widowmaker can proc multiple times in rapid succession by someone who uses duel wielding:



The final thing I will say about damage sets is that they way better than the utility or even defensive oriented sets available.

There is no way this:

can compete with this:

susmitds

I find Viper and Tremorscale much more broken. Widowmaker multi-proccing is a bug with Hidden Dagger skill, which is exploited by some players. Otherwise, it is still limited.

But on the other hand, Viper and Tremorscale have nearly guaranteed proc chances for a massive burst. It is ridiculous that a 30k HP Stamina DK or Sorc in heavy armor can pull the same burst as my 18k HP Stamina Nightblade or 20k HP Magicka Nightblade, while having times as much survivability and much higher sustain.

Ragnaroek93

I've said this earlier and I will say it again here: There is no problem with dmg proc sets. The problem is, that the numbers are simply too strong (compare Ashen Grip with any set and you can also say that proc sets are useless). But the numbers from some other non proc sets are too strong too. This pure proc builds have really low defense and if they can't get a lucky they die most of the time, it's not as easy to play as people say. The power of drop sets is just too strong... take Lich, Necropotence, Spinners or Burning Spellweave for example. All magicka based sets which are also much stronger than the magicka craft sets.

I've talked to many people from NA on the PTS and it's a bit disturbing how weak they talk magicka builds. I mean on EU there is a lot QQ about stamina too, but not on that level. I don't know NA live server, but on EU people start realising how strong magicka actually is (sure, it depends on the class but Necroblade for example should defeat most stam builds in 1vs1 and outperforms all stambuilds in group pvp by a large margin because of the destro ult). I wouldn't be surprised for a second if magicka will be the Meta in a few weeks because of that destro staff ultimate. And don't forget about that new food which helps magicka a lot.

I find it also disturbing that so many complain about stamina proc sets, but nobody complains about Skoria or Infernal Guardian. Hey, they are magicka sets, so they can't be OP I guess

LeifErickson

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

I've said this earlier and I will say it again here: There is no problem with dmg proc sets. The problem is, that the numbers are simply too strong (compare Ashen Grip with any set and you can also say that proc sets are useless). But the numbers from some other non proc sets are too strong too. This pure proc builds have really low defense and if they can't get a lucky they die most of the time, it's not as easy to play as people say. The power of drop sets is just too strong... take Lich, Necropotence, Spinners or Burning Spellweave for example. All magicka based sets which are also much stronger than the magicka craft sets.

I've talked to many people from NA on the PTS and it's a bit disturbing how weak they talk magicka builds. I mean on EU there is a lot QQ about stamina too, but not on that level. I don't know NA live server, but on EU people start realising how strong magicka actually is (sure, it depends on the class but Necroblade for example should defeat most stam builds in 1vs1 and outperforms all stambuilds in group pvp by a large margin because of the destro ult). I wouldn't be surprised for a second if magicka will be the Meta in a few weeks because of that destro staff ultimate. And don't forget about that new food which helps magicka a lot.

I find it also disturbing that so many complain about stamina proc sets, but nobody complains about Skoria or Infernal Guardian. Hey, they are magicka sets, so they can't be OP I guess

Skoria is crazy OP and Infernal Guardian and that one other one that looks like a mini destro ult seem pretty good too, but I have never used them so I don't know for sure.

NBrookus

People don't complain about Skoria or Infernal Guardian because they proc way, way less often and don't stack with other sets. Infernal Guardian is easy to avoid. Grothdarr has a powerful area-of-denial but it's also easy to stay out of. You can't avoid viper, widowmaker, tremorscale and can barely avoid Velidreth if you are close up. At a minimum, proc sets need to not be able to proc off each other.

Magicka proc sets should also be part of the solution, and I'm in 100% agreement with @Joy_Division that it shouldn't be to buff the magicka sets or make more of them. That said, there are a few magicka based proc armor sets you can stack. I can think of several proc builds for magsorcs and magNBs but I haven't seen people using those builds. Maybe because I never see magsorcs outside of zergs anymore and a magNB is a rare sight indeed.

My only complaint with the destro ult (and I haven't used it myself) is that it's hard to see. It has viable counter moves.

DHale

Sigh, always asking for nerfs. More pew pew less qq.

Minno

@Joy_Division thanks for the constructive post!

Though any set that procs off taunt should not work in pvp. I think that's both obvious and very easy to figure out a way to negate it from pvp.

BurritoESO

Cut damage of all of sets in half, make it so you can only effectively use on proc set at a time
K

timidobserver

Good try but ZOS almost never talks balance on the forums. You will see their plans in the next patch.

Alucardo

Proc sets on their own aren't much of a problem. For example, Widowmaker will/should only proc once every 10 seconds, and that's if your poison goes off (20% chance). Tremorscale is a problem because that has a 50% chance to proc on a standard S+B DPS ability (yes, I called it a DPS ability, not a taunt) with a 4 second cooldown. Viper will proc on any melee ability every 4 seconds without fail.
These sets, on their own, won't cause you too much harm. It's when they all go off together, or even 2 at a time. Tremorscale and Viper can proc every 4 seconds because of Tremorscale's ridiculous 50% chance.
So I'm ok with some proc sets. What I'm not ok is with being able to stack them.
Having said that, losing a fight to a random proc just god damn sucks. I was ganked by a Nightblade today, but I had defensive rune up so they were stunned before they could complete the kill, I roll dodged away but velidreth had proc just before they were stunned and I died to one of the *** orbs while the Nightblade was just sitting there in my rune.

CHANCE SHOULD NOT AFFECT THE OUTCOME OF A FIGHT

DeadlyRecluse

Until proc sets are adjusted, I have no further desire to take PvP seriously.

My 2 cents on the root of the procset issue:

They don't scale off of anything. Not max stat, weap/spell damage, etc. Nada. They are static amounts--and they are balanced AS IF they are being used on class cannon builds who are giving up a large 5 piece to run them.

But that isn't what's happening. People are rolling all heavy (which is honestly not overperforming to the extent people think it is), tanky builds, and are amazed at the damage they get out of 1-2 procsets (viper+tremorscale is the most egregious at the moment, but others are almost as bad), because despite building for sustain/surivivability they are getting two procs that are hitting for extremely high numbers.

Seriously, the I burst can do on a stamDK with under 2k weapon damage is unreal, and that's just with tremorscale on it. If armor procs scaled off of max stat/damage (similar to ultimates) and performed at their current level ONLY on a glass-cannon full damage spec, I would be fine with them. Allowing them to dish out this level of damage on a tank is unreasonable.

I can throw tremorscale (or velidreth/selenes) on my health regen tank and get 7k health regen and still hit 7k burst spikes. Woo.

Sena

Like we have a campaign with no CP, we need a campaign where you can use only craft set and cyrodiil set.

Glory

NBrookus wrote: »

People don't complain about Skoria or Infernal Guardian because they proc way, way less often and don't stack with other sets. Infernal Guardian is easy to avoid. Grothdarr has a powerful area-of-denial but it's also easy to stay out of. You can't avoid viper, widowmaker, tremorscale and can barely avoid Velidreth if you are close up. At a minimum, proc sets need to not be able to proc off each other.

Magicka proc sets should also be part of the solution, and I'm in 100% agreement with @Joy_Division that it shouldn't be to buff the magicka sets or make more of them. That said, there are a few magicka based proc armor sets you can stack. I can think of several proc builds for magsorcs and magNBs but I haven't seen people using those builds. Maybe because I never see magsorcs outside of zergs anymore and a magNB is a rare sight indeed.

My only complaint with the destro ult (and I haven't used it myself) is that it's hard to see. It has viable counter moves.

I think there are a few significant differences that people need to consider when comparing stamina and magicka sets that proc damage:

1. Generally the damage per proc is signficantly lower for magicka sets (look at Grothdarr vs. Tremorscale, Selene vs. Skoria, etc.
2. Generally the proc conditions are much easier to meet on stamina than magicka. This has changed slightly, but if you compared Selene (15% proc on any direct melee damage) or Velidreth (20% in general) to something like Skoria (8% chance on DoTs only) there is a disparity. Same thing goes for non-monster sets: proccing Viper and Widowmaker are significantly easier (guaranteed or very consistent) to even the best of the magicka sets like Thunderbug (50% on taking damage). This isn't even considering the magicka sets that have very, very poor proc mechanics such as Galerion's Revenge which takes 6 light/heavy attacks to proc 4730 base magic damage.
3. Generally the cooldown duration favors stamina compared to magicka. Selene can proc every 4 seconds, viper every 4 seconds, Widow does not technically have a cooldown besides waiting for poisons to become usable (can be procced on both bars). The best magicka sets have more reasonable proc cooldowns like Skoria's 5 seconds, Illambris's 8 seconds, Grothdarr's 10s.
4. Finally, it is important to note that most stamina proc sets are offensive in nature while most magicka are defensive or allow counterplay. Viper, Widowmaker, Tremorscale are good examples of sets that, when procc'ed, do not allow for counterplay and contribute significant pressure on opponents at little cost. Compare that to sets like Grothdarr (AoE that can be avoided), Infernal Guardian (can be easily walked away from), Thunderbug/Storm Knight (don't want to get hit by these procs? Don't attack this person mindlessly), you can see that there is no counterplay to the most popular stamina sets around, while most magicka proc sets allow for the enemy to respond accordingly (move out of AoE, stop attacking Thunderbugged enemy, etc.). The only exceptions I can think of off the top of my head right now are Skoria (procs instant) and Twin Sisters (due to it being a defensive proc that is not burst oriented).

Just my constructive 2c insight. It seems like magicka proc sets are much more balanced in all regards compared to stamina: proc chance and conditions, proc cooldown, proc damage, and allowing enemy counterplay.

Cheers.

DeadlyRecluse

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Generally the proc conditions are much easier to meet on stamina than magicka.

Viper, Widowmaker, Tremorscale are good examples of sets that, when procc'ed, do not allow for counterplay and contribute significant pressure on opponents at little cost.

These two are huge. You have to build intentionally to get productive uses out of neireneth or skoria, and neireneth is easily avoidable, skoria is telegraphed.

Stamina builds just equip a proc set and go to town, no build adjustment necessary.


IMO, proc sets should:
1. scale off of max stat, with current power level being equivalent to their power on glass cannon builds. No more full tanks throwing on a proc set and having free access to burst.
2. Require build/skill considerations. No more "procs off of damage," make it require specific player actions/damage types, etc. Grothdar is also guilty here, but they could just change it to "procs off of fire" or "Procs off of dots" and it would still fulfill it's role"
3. Allow for counterplay. No invisible, unavoidable damage spikes. (I'm actually cool with Velidreth's amount of available counterplay, if it were slightly more difficult to proc).

bikerangelo

Not even going to add my opinion about proc sets since that's what everyone else has already done one way or another.

Wrobel and Wheeler should seriously consider starting up public updates every other week. They should address bugs, the meta, and the future of pvp in general. I don't care if it's a vlog or just a blog post, but some form of open communication between them and the player base is sorely needed. Random guest appearances on ESO Live will only incite most people since they'll dodge the touchier subjects or gloss over most of their unpopular past decisions.

@Wrobel and @ZOS_BrianWheeler, mull it over, if anything it will just help you appear less alienated from the players.

Valencer

Proc sets simply shouldn't have as much of an impact as they do right now. It's ridiculous.

Best solution? Remove them because theyre completely silly in a PvP setting.
Another option is making their damage scale off your actual stats so you would need to go full glass cannon to reach the current values. And maybe make them unable to crit...

stealthyevil

Thanks for throwing up this post @Joy_Division I find it increasingly hard to keep enjoying this game in this patch. Please no blanket nerfs, no counter magicka proc sets, all we want is something balanced T_T

Sallington

Disable all 5-piece set bonuses in Cyrodil for a week. I'm curious to see the results of people only being able to passively increase stats.

Ishammael

I have a stronger opinion than Joy, though I think he described the situation well.

Remove all dmg proc sets from PvP. RNG has no place in a competitive environment. Leave them as is for PvE.

What I would really like to see is the following: gear separated between PvP and PvE. That is, there are only a certain number of allowable sets in PvP which are obtained by (!!!) PvPing (shocking): AP bags/vendors, merchants in the towns, or the Golden. Everything else is reserved for PvE. Since the beginning of the game I have hated that I have to PvE in order to get stuff to PvP.

Minalan

Stamina nightblade stealth opening attacks are nearly unbeatable this patch. You've handed the invisible sharks nuclear weapons, and you need to fix this mess.

You're not playing a game anymore if you're killed in one attack with zero chance of counter play.

One proc set activation should set all of the other worn proc sets on cooldown.
Proc set damage needs to be toned down, as many people are running three sets of it.
Melee Proc sets should not activate on poisons or ranged damage.
Players should not be taunt-able. Sorry tremor scale.

Robbmrp

Any change made so that these Proc sets cannot hit as often as they do would be a welcomed change.

As far as my 2 cents go, I don't see a reason that people should have the need to use 3 Proc sets at anytime ever. When you combine that with the ease of Animation Cancelling on a Nightblade, your going to give someone the one shot capability that everyone complained about for so long. Combine that with gaming mice where you can add in multiple attacks on a macro with 1 button press and we have the lack of skill PVP that most of us hate and the ever more so I win button.

Since ZOS can't really do much about macro programmable gaming mice or animation cancelling, they need to handle it through the use of the players sets.

IMO they should limit proc sets to one set per player. It will force players to use the other sets in the game instead of specifically trying to build these multi proc sets.

As others have mentioned, RNG doesn't belong in PVP. These sets are taking actual player skill and setting them to the side. Any trained monkey with a Proc set build can one shot someone. PVP is supposed to be about skill, not who's Proc goes off sooner.

HoloYoitsu

Minalan wrote: »

Stamina nightblade stealth opening attacks are nearly unbeatable this patch. You've handed the invisible sharks nuclear weapons, and you need to fix this mess.

You're not playing a game anymore if you're killed in one attack with zero chance of counter play.

One proc set activation should set all of the other worn proc sets on cooldown.
Proc set damage needs to be toned down, as many people are running three sets of it.
Melee Proc sets should not activate on poisons or ranged damage.
Players should not be taunt-able. Sorry tremor scale.

Agreed, except for one thing.

Judging from the amount of teabagging I get, I'd say players are tauntable.

God_flakes

I think they intro'd these stupid OP proc sets and unkillable builds to cater to the CE crowd who get no enjoyment from this game unless they can be running around in God mode, with very little actual skill, and swinging their e-peen around like big shots. It's killing the game and I agree chasing people from pvp. And when you die to these people they're just as insufferable and obnoxious as the CE users were.

CapuchinSeven

Sena wrote: »

Like we have a campaign with no CP, we need a campaign where you can use only craft set and cyrodiil set.

People might moan about that idea but you know what, I'd love it.
The crafted sets often feel like the only ones where any thought to PVP balance was made.

AhPook_Is_Here

Joy_Division wrote: »

ZOS_JohanaB wrote:

We've closed this thread for lack of constructive conversation. We understand your frustration but we ask that if you wish to express it you do so in a more productive manner.

@Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler

OK.

If I am “more productive” than the 20 or so threads ZoS has closed, down, can ZoS at least in return be as thoughtful and productive in a basic “state of PvP, here is where we are thinking of going update” as I am in this thread?

In my humble opinion, I think most of the complaints by PvPers on this forum are a little overstated and with the exception of proc-set builds and those brave hardcore magicka DKs, there is in most cases, a reasonably competitive balance out there. This does not mean I enjoy the near infinite sustain-high heal-high burst-high damage avoidance/mitigation that most specs can roll out in Cyrodiil. However, since it is not that difficult to make a build that does this (of course it’s quite another to play it effectively), I would attribute most deaths and defeats due to the player’s mistake or circumstance than to poor balance. In short, I disagree with most of the “Nerf X” or “X is cancerous build” threads and feel they are made from subjective and myopic frustration.

There is, however, one issue that needs IMMEDIATE attention:

Multiple instantaneous high damage procs. There is no need to rehash what has been said for months. There reasons for addressing the issue now are many and obvious:

Most importantly, just 6 weeks ago or so on the NA server, both standard PvP campaigns were fully locked (Trueflame with a 40+ queue!) and even the non-CP one had up to three bars and was bustling with action. Now, 1 bar pops are so common except Trueflame, which I can get into without a que. I already farmed my gear. Multiple sets already. People aren’t PvPing.

This is a critical issue and needs the entire ESO PvP community’s input. I know you work hard on your internal testing, but we’ve been frustrated with this for months. What if your well-intended resolution/fix doesn’t quite work out in the next patch? Then we will have to wait another balance cycle and thus will have been plagued by this proc meta that has driven some many away for over a year!. For the love of the 8 divines, can you please recognize the importance of this issue and make an exception to your usual procedure of no-balance change without a patch and let us help you out with the ideas you are tossing about by trying the most promising one you are thinking of on the Live server? Yes, please, please, please use me as a testing dummy: I would much prefer that to insta-dying one more time to a viper, velidreth, widomaker simultaneous proc.

And, I’m sure it needs not be said but this is so important that I’m taking no chance, the “solution” should not be to give magicka users the same ability to have their own ridiculous procs. In particular, I don’t find it healthy that everyone just goes for damage damage damage sets, but it would be at least bearable if these things did not proc at the same time on demand.

It's only October. Are you really going to make us suffer through this terrible mechanic for months ... especially since we have already suffered for months! Please, please, please put for once be a bit proactive here and let us give you some feedback so Update 13 can roll out with a solid mechanic already in place to prevent proc set abuse. Why do we have to beg for this logical, efficient solution that 95% of your community desperately wants? It makes zero sense and begs for an explanation from Zos!

The simplest and easiest to implement band-aid fix that has been floated around is to add a global cooldown to insta-damage procs. Just try it out please and see how it works out. If it doesn’t, then fine, we gave it a go and that way we’ll at least have narrowed down the options so that ZoS has more data to come up with something better for the next balance patch. If it does work, great, then that’s more time for ZoS to develop other areas and a better PvP for all of us starting today.

• It is not necessary to nerf PvE. Let’s not ruin their part of ESO for a specific Cyrodiil problem
• Thus make it part of the Battlespirit mechanic.
• I have no problem with DoT and debuff procs, leave them alone
• A global cooldown of 2 seconds is enough time for a player who is hit by a proc to recognize the damage and react accordingly before the next one hit. 1 second is not enough to react and fire off another action. I could live with a 3 second cooldown, though we have so many methods of damage mitigation/avoidance that I would deem anything longer overkill.

I am also of the belief that there are 2 sets that are particularly overperforming: the tremorscale and widowmaker. Tremorscale does way too much (AOE damage, almost on demand proc, high damage, long 70% snare) for a 4 second cooldown. Widowmaker can proc multiple times in rapid succession by someone who uses duel wielding:



The final thing I will say about damage sets is that they way better than the utility or even defensive oriented sets available.

There is no way this:

can compete with this:

I agree more or less with all of this, if battle spirit is active, armor or weapons that have a random chance to do damage won't activate. It's simple, it's elegant and it takes the RNG out of PVP, something most people would be happy with.

Xsorus

you guys keep talking about Proc Sets and such while ignoring the fact that PvP is dominated by Magicka User Trains of Players using the Destro Ult with no actual Counter to it because they gutted things like Prox Det.

Minalan

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Sena wrote: »

Like we have a campaign with no CP, we need a campaign where you can use only craft set and cyrodiil set.

People might moan about that idea but you know what, I'd love it.
The crafted sets often feel like the only ones where any thought to PVP balance was made.

It would have to be crafted, Cyrodiil town, and imperial city sets. It doesn't make sense to farm sets in a PVP zone that don't work there.

I doubt that'll be done though. Most likely they'll add more sets with proc defense, that will result in stam builds being even more difficult to kill.

And Magicka specs will be screwed/forgotten of course.

Ankael07

Every proc set should come with a condition. Like Nerieneth's 3 seconds build up time , Valkyn's dot only proc chance, Infernal guardian's projectile arrival time and ''farthest enemy''.
But what do we have instead? proc sets not only going on without a condition but theyre triggering each other and performing combos for you.

JamilaRaj

Ankael07 wrote: »

Every proc set should come with a condition. Like Nerieneth's 3 seconds build up time , Valkyn's dot only proc chance, Infernal guardian's projectile arrival time and ''farthest enemy''.
But what do we have instead? proc sets not only going on without a condition but theyre triggering each other and performing combos for you.

But that is brilliant! If ZOS introduces new OP items in each update, or generally reshuffles things so that in each update something else will become OP, players will be perpetually busy with adjusting their builds, which is good, because busy can do as substitute for fun and besides gives impression of the game improving, and, because everything procs automatically, the game basically plays itself, everyone will have some random success in PvP, which will likewise keep players engaged.

Dreyloch

Ishammael wrote: »

I have a stronger opinion than Joy, though I think he described the situation well.

Remove all dmg proc sets from PvP. RNG has no place in a competitive environment. Leave them as is for PvE.

What I would really like to see is the following: gear separated between PvP and PvE. That is, there are only a certain number of allowable sets in PvP which are obtained by (!!!) PvPing (shocking): AP bags/vendors, merchants in the towns, or the Golden. Everything else is reserved for PvE. Since the beginning of the game I have hated that I have to PvE in order to get stuff to PvP.

Been saying the same. PvP sets with PvP procs, set bonuses, buffs etc. Totally seperate and useless in PvE. Same would go for PvE sets in Cyrodiil. Could go even further by making all skills scale and change according to what enviroment your in. Although this kind of happens with Battlespirit already, I'm talking about the individual skills themselves for each class to balance it all out. (pipe dream for sure, but these days I just go with the flow. We know change comes to slow and often opposite in direction of what we players ask for and suggest)

caeliusstarbreaker

I legit don't think they are going to deal with it. They spent months planning and creating these sets, already having viper and velidreth in the game.

Their rationale was to not fix those, but to just create other means to do roughly the same thing, to push their "do content for gear" agenda.

Personally I don't think mobbing from one world boss to another, or leap frogging through dungeon bosses as "doing content." If people are grinding pve, they can't complain about performance in pvp. If people are in instanced zones, they can't complain about degraded performance in pve zones. Which means they don't have to actually improve performance.
If we addict players to a lottery system where drop rates for preferred traits are lower than dirt, players were be too encapsulated by trying to get their gear than noticing glaring flaws, or it will just postpone their discovery of such. They seem to have run out of creativity in regards to actual content, and are just shooting metaphorical t-shirts at people, potentially diminishing appeal of TES games in the future.

All of it just kicks the can down the road while they "create content," so we have to do the gear grind all over again come CP 180 gear update. More time spent in game, to even play the game, more chances you see something interesting in the crown store to buy, more money in their pocket.

They have a track record of not listening to players, or communicating other than forum moderation (which I'm sure this post will feel.) When a bone is thrown, it's half-done. (Flags in IC, Captureable towns.)

Trust me, they are more occupied with throwing more glitter at you than fixing things they have screwed up.

ZoS is a commercial painter, who will only paint the rooms they want in your house, the colors they want, will charge you for it, and then can later be seen bragging at the bar over how awesome they painted for these people.