While I'm still playing, I'm still subbing.

If they add something so absurdly atrocious to the Crown Crates that it makes me want to unsub, then it will make me also want to quit. I don't separate one thing from the other because I made the option to see this game as a sub-based game with a B2P option rather than a B2P game with a sub option (and yes, that's different).

I cancelled my sub with the last teeny weeny DLC. Although with these Crates I would cancel all over again.

Oh,

UrQuan wrote: »

trbrelinskib14_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

Of course I'm not unsubbing.

So, you'll give up your awesome craft bag, your subscription crowns, your extra XP, and your access to all DLC in protest to something that you DON'T HAVE TO BUY an has NO IMPACT to your actual gaming experience?

Go ahead. You'll stick it to "The Man".

Some people have lines they simply won't cross. I'm not thinking about unsubbing so that I can "stick it to the man," I'm thinking about unsubbing because I want my money to go to companies that deal fairly and honestly with their customers. ZOS will not be the first company I've abandoned because I disagree with how they choose to do business and certainly won't be the last.

If you don't have any ethical disagreements with how the crown crates work then good for you, but don't mock people for having their own convictions.

I'll mock whomever I want. It's the American way! The ridiculous thing is that people will cancel a leisure service in protest of a leisure within it. So, go ahead... protest something that you don't have to pay for to a company that has to make money to improve content.

Are you reading the posts you are replying to or just YOLOing on your keyboard? I'm not protesting anything, I'm choosing where to spend my money based on how companies behave toward their customers. That's like trying to insinuate that I protest bananas because I don't like how they taste. It's not a protest, it's a simple decision.

If people (not just you) unsubscribe to ESO+ because they don't like crown crates... they're protesting. They're quite literally protesting crown crates. YOLO!!!

No. We're deciding that we don't want to support a company that has exploitative practices, and we'd rather spend our money on a company that's interested in making their profits honestly. That's not a protest, that's an informed decision on where we'll spend our money based on the ethics of the company.

Unless I have no other choice, my money never goes to companies which I don't consider to be ethical. If I know that a company is doing the wrong thing, I won't buy their product. That's not a protest, it's a choice based on my personal beliefs. And unless ZOS makes sufficient changes to the crown crates to make them fair (and yes, they're still allowed to be profitable for ZOS - they're even allowed to make more off them than they do off regular crown store stuff), then I'll be making that choice with ESO.

Even though I've spent over $1500 on ESO since PC launch, I don't expect ZOS will notice the loss of income from me. I don't expect they'll care or change their minds. If they ask, I'll happily explain to them why they will no longer get my money, but my choice not to support this predatory practice is simply because I don't want to support a company that would do that. It's not a protest, it's choosing not to be a part of what they're becoming.

How is this "Predatory"? When ESO was launched I heard a lot of negative reaction to the fact it was subscription required. This was different than the industry standard now that MMO's are pretty much free to play. So they went free to play with an option to subscribe for more benefits. That went over pretty well.

I typically don't support corporate America, but this protesting is a bit ridiculous. If subscription is an option and many people won't subscribe no matter what they do...they need to find more streams of revenue to help offset the loss of the required subscription. They need income to keep the developers around to keep developing quality content for the game. This isn't predatory or exploitative. Some people will buy them and some won't. If anything it gives us the consumer/player/user more options of how we want to support their product...much better than only one option, which was subscription required.

I probably will buy at least 1 or 2 just to see what I get, but I for the most part will just ignore them.

Have you not read any of the threads about them? It's predatory and exploitative because it takes shiny exclusives that you can't get any other way, and puts them behind a gambling box where you have no idea what the odds are, and depending on which particular item you're looking to get you're likely to have to spend hundreds of dollars chasing it in order to get it.

In their current form (even with the changes Gina has mentioned they are planning to make) it's impossible for a consumer to make an informed decision about whether to buy them, because there's no way of knowing the odds of getting something you want, or of having any idea of the maximum number of crates you'd need to get to buy any given item using gems. That's predatory.

As I've said many times, gambling boxes don't necessarily have to be predatory. They can be implemented in a way that they're a legitimate income stream without being predatory - even if they on average end up costing customers more than buying items outright. From what we've seen on PTS the crown crates need significant changes before they can be in the non-predatory category.

Wow... So since you can't get something that's only in a crate...unless you buy said crate...that's unfair? Do you feel like you have to have access to everything in the game? Like that is a requirement for ZOS? Really? That is what it seems like. So going with that... they are preying on your OCD to have everything? It's an OPTION... NOT REQUIRED. YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE ANY OF THE THINGS IN THE CRATES. YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO BUY THEM. But they do need to have some incentive for people to buy them, otherwise, there would be no point. So put stuff in there that make sense to buy them. AGAIN... they are not forcing you to buy them.

So taking that logic further...one should be upset that they can't get the Emperor's stuff because the only way they can get it is to be really good at PvP...which would take a fair amount of time to get to that point...time is money so to speak, so they are paying to get that content above the normal cost of the game. Also any dyes that might go along with said content in the game. How is this any different than the crates? Or other content that you have to work for? Or other aspects of the game where you can only get said content if you like that aspect of the game...?

Needing to have everything in the game is not ZOS's issue. That is a desire, not a requirement. I am a completionist, I've had to come to grips with the fact I won't have it all completed... I don't like PvP, so I've resigned to the fact that I won't complete the PvP stuff. It's my issue, not ZOS's.

Ever heard of the drama triangle? Victim, Enabler, Persecutor? Crates are not preying on anyone... you are not a victim... It's best to step out of the triangle...

trbrelinskib14_ESO wrote: »

Oh,

UrQuan wrote: »

trbrelinskib14_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

Of course I'm not unsubbing.

So, you'll give up your awesome craft bag, your subscription crowns, your extra XP, and your access to all DLC in protest to something that you DON'T HAVE TO BUY an has NO IMPACT to your actual gaming experience?

Go ahead. You'll stick it to "The Man".

Some people have lines they simply won't cross. I'm not thinking about unsubbing so that I can "stick it to the man," I'm thinking about unsubbing because I want my money to go to companies that deal fairly and honestly with their customers. ZOS will not be the first company I've abandoned because I disagree with how they choose to do business and certainly won't be the last.

If you don't have any ethical disagreements with how the crown crates work then good for you, but don't mock people for having their own convictions.

I'll mock whomever I want. It's the American way! The ridiculous thing is that people will cancel a leisure service in protest of a leisure within it. So, go ahead... protest something that you don't have to pay for to a company that has to make money to improve content.

Are you reading the posts you are replying to or just YOLOing on your keyboard? I'm not protesting anything, I'm choosing where to spend my money based on how companies behave toward their customers. That's like trying to insinuate that I protest bananas because I don't like how they taste. It's not a protest, it's a simple decision.

If people (not just you) unsubscribe to ESO+ because they don't like crown crates... they're protesting. They're quite literally protesting crown crates. YOLO!!!

No. We're deciding that we don't want to support a company that has exploitative practices, and we'd rather spend our money on a company that's interested in making their profits honestly. That's not a protest, that's an informed decision on where we'll spend our money based on the ethics of the company.

Unless I have no other choice, my money never goes to companies which I don't consider to be ethical. If I know that a company is doing the wrong thing, I won't buy their product. That's not a protest, it's a choice based on my personal beliefs. And unless ZOS makes sufficient changes to the crown crates to make them fair (and yes, they're still allowed to be profitable for ZOS - they're even allowed to make more off them than they do off regular crown store stuff), then I'll be making that choice with ESO.

Even though I've spent over $1500 on ESO since PC launch, I don't expect ZOS will notice the loss of income from me. I don't expect they'll care or change their minds. If they ask, I'll happily explain to them why they will no longer get my money, but my choice not to support this predatory practice is simply because I don't want to support a company that would do that. It's not a protest, it's choosing not to be a part of what they're becoming.

How is this "Predatory"? When ESO was launched I heard a lot of negative reaction to the fact it was subscription required. This was different than the industry standard now that MMO's are pretty much free to play. So they went free to play with an option to subscribe for more benefits. That went over pretty well.

I typically don't support corporate America, but this protesting is a bit ridiculous. If subscription is an option and many people won't subscribe no matter what they do...they need to find more streams of revenue to help offset the loss of the required subscription. They need income to keep the developers around to keep developing quality content for the game. This isn't predatory or exploitative. Some people will buy them and some won't. If anything it gives us the consumer/player/user more options of how we want to support their product...much better than only one option, which was subscription required.

I probably will buy at least 1 or 2 just to see what I get, but I for the most part will just ignore them.

Have you not read any of the threads about them? It's predatory and exploitative because it takes shiny exclusives that you can't get any other way, and puts them behind a gambling box where you have no idea what the odds are, and depending on which particular item you're looking to get you're likely to have to spend hundreds of dollars chasing it in order to get it.

In their current form (even with the changes Gina has mentioned they are planning to make) it's impossible for a consumer to make an informed decision about whether to buy them, because there's no way of knowing the odds of getting something you want, or of having any idea of the maximum number of crates you'd need to get to buy any given item using gems. That's predatory.

As I've said many times, gambling boxes don't necessarily have to be predatory. They can be implemented in a way that they're a legitimate income stream without being predatory - even if they on average end up costing customers more than buying items outright. From what we've seen on PTS the crown crates need significant changes before they can be in the non-predatory category.

Wow... So since you can't get something that's only in a crate...unless you buy said crate...that's unfair? Do you feel like you have to have access to everything in the game? Like that is a requirement for ZOS? Really? That is what it seems like. So going with that... they are preying on your OCD to have everything? It's an OPTION... NOT REQUIRED. YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE ANY OF THE THINGS IN THE CRATES. YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO BUY THEM. But they do need to have some incentive for people to buy them, otherwise, there would be no point. So put stuff in there that make sense to buy them. AGAIN... they are not forcing you to buy them.

So taking that logic further...one should be upset that they can't get the Emperor's stuff because the only way they can get it is to be really good at PvP...which would take a fair amount of time to get to that point...time is money so to speak, so they are paying to get that content above the normal cost of the game. Also any dyes that might go along with said content in the game. How is this any different than the crates? Or other content that you have to work for? Or other aspects of the game where you can only get said content if you like that aspect of the game...?

Needing to have everything in the game is not ZOS's issue. That is a desire, not a requirement. I am a completionist, I've had to come to grips with the fact I won't have it all completed... I don't like PvP, so I've resigned to the fact that I won't complete the PvP stuff. It's my issue, not ZOS's.

Ever heard of the drama triangle? Victim, Enabler, Persecutor? Crates are not preying on anyone... you are not a victim... It's best to step out of the triangle...

Is it really so offensive that other people have values that differ from yours? I just don't get why it's hard to accept that people might not want to spend money on the same thing you do for reasons you disagree with.

Those of us that do not like this business model know these are optional, we are not stupid.

Those of us that do not like this business model simply dislike the direction ZOS is taking the game and are choosing to spend our money elsewhere.

Why is that bad? Why the raging capslock? I don't see anyone calling for boycotts or setting up change.org petitions or DOXing Firor, just people saying "I don't like a thing so I'm gonna go play a different thing." WTH is so wrong with that?

trbrelinskib14_ESO wrote: »

Do you feel like you have to have access to everything in the game?

If you followed the feedback threads, it would cost hundreds just trying to win one thing. If some one actually had the compulsion to own everything they'd easily run into the thousands. We are talking items that under the current system that cost a few dollars here or there, up 30-50 dollars at most. And complaints aren't just coming from players wanting free stuff, or even cheaper prices. These are players happy enough to give ZOS money directly for digital items under the current model.

The majority of them are probably smart enough to spot that crown crates are a bad deal. Given the choice of spending money on them for a new shinny, or doing without, most would go without. So using common sense, why would a business make a change that would cause fewer customers to give them money?

It's because a handful will buy the crates, and buy, and buy, and buy. ZOS is expecting to squeeze a minority of customers for more than enough money to make up for the dollars not spent by the old customer base. You don't have to be personally affected to see this practice as exploitative.

No, because cancelling over something completely optional that has absolutely no effect on me is stupid.

DocFrost72 wrote: »

CasNation wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Doesn't affect me or anyone I've talked to. Not exactly sure how this crate is different than say, selling skins seasonally and taking them off the store. Limited time sales aren't along the same lines of "Buy, buy, buy! Quickly!"? Cause to me they are, and I don't QQ about either.

If you paid 4k crowns without a second thought for an in game mount that looks like a spray painted nyan cat, it might be reasonable to not discuss crown crates.

The difference is that you know that spray painted cat costs 4k crowns. You can make an educated decision on whether to buy it based on your own knowledge of your finances and how much personal value you will get out of it.

On the other hand, if I want the storm atro senche (and I kinda do), I cant make an educated decision on whether it is worth it for me to purchase it, because I don't know how much it will cost. But you can bet your bonnet it is going to likely be way more than 4k crowns in the end. Not to mention even if I get lucky and recieve an apex reward, it might not be the one I want. What if I get the bear? I hate the bloody bears, but since it is all chance, too bad.

Do you see the difference? In one system, the consumer has the power to make informed choices. In the other, the seller takes that power away.

But you ARE making an informed decision. You know that you have a small chance of getting what you want, you know what you want, and you know the loot table. No different than say, trying to get a Sharpened maelstrom staff. You only need know how much your time/$/£/whatever is worth to you.

I guess it's cause I have no desire for the crates, but it is just baffling that people want to invoke others' concerns and rights. I don't want them, I won't buy them. It isn't nearly close to worth tossing my sub away and losing access to crafting bags, the DLCs, and costume dying. Not on the grounds of "someone else might get hurt". Way too subjective and removed from me and my experience.

Nope, I am not making an informed decision. Not unless they publish the drop rates, which they wont. You also can't really compare opening boxes to running vMA for the weapon you want. When you are running vMA, you are actually playing the game. Maybe I am alone in this, but I don't consider opening boxes part of "playing the game," and I don't have any interest in supporting that kind of activity.

I don't have some misplaced notion that by cancelling my sub I am somehow attempting to protect people with a gambling addiction, or anything along those lines. I am, however, choosing to cease financial support of a company that, in my mind, is partaking in degrading business practices. When I started playing back in the beta, this product was sold to me as a premium gaming experience, and the crates are just the most recent in a long line of disappointments that make the game feel more like a tawdry casino. Which is a tremendous shame, because the developers have made and continue to make tremendous improvements to the actual content of the game. There is remarkable potential, and if they had LAUNCHED the game in the state it is in OT but with a sub model, I doubt we would have these crates at all. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.

As it stands, I will clarify that I have currently cancelled my sub. I still have playtime left, and I am going to see where this is headed. Maybe they can convince me to resub. They are already making steps on changing the crates, and the level of negativity is obvious in the playerbase. We will see where this goes, but for the time being, I feel it is important to make my stance in the matter clear.

Diminish wrote: »

Chew_Magna wrote: »

No, because cancelling over something completely optional that has absolutely no effect on me is stupid.

Once crown crates sway the availability of items within the crown store, and the overall price it takes you to get the mount you actually want, then perhaps you will begin to realize how this "completely optional" change absolutely does have an impact on you.

It's not even just that. There were already two exp scrolls in the crates stronger than the crafted potions. On top of that, the last update they increased the power of the potions. A lot of the feedback was about how trash the consumables in the crate were compared to crafted items and that they didn't add value to the boxes.

ZOS response is considering making them even stronger, and then adding new recipes to the game. That's absolutely going to effect you in game. I invite everyone who hasn't read the feedback threads, and thinks it's only about optional cosmetic stuff, to read through them. I'm not saying it'll change your mind about subscribing, but you also shouldn't be so blasé about their addition either.

I pvp, I'm used to not getting anything for my countless hours playing.

People whining about crates are fools to me...

Diminish wrote: »

Chew_Magna wrote: »

No, because cancelling over something completely optional that has absolutely no effect on me is stupid.

Once crown crates sway the availability of items within the crown store, and the overall price it takes you to get the mount you actually want, then perhaps you will begin to realize how this "completely optional" change absolutely does have an impact on you.

Crown mounts are optional. I have a handful already, they all perform the same, so it still has no effect on me.

driosketch wrote: »

the last update they increased the power of the potions. A lot of the feedback was about how trash the consumables in the crate were compared to crafted items and that they didn't add value to the boxes.

ZOS response is considering making them even stronger, and then adding new recipes to the game.

It's so ridiculous.

No amount of buffing short of making them all better than in-game counterparts will make them desirable as an RNG grab bag filler.

The crown consumables aren't only a bad crate filler because they are underpowered.

They are bad crate filler because:

• For those that craft their own pots/food/drinks, spending *any* real money on such items is silly. They are - quite literally - worthless to us. We already have what we need for free.
• For those that want crown tripots, you can buy the exact ones you need for half the price (200 crowns)
• For those that want crown soul gems, repair crates or food/drink, the drop rates in the crates are so low, you would be better off directly buying a 10 pack for 400 crowns
• Ditto for mimic stones with 12 packs for 600 crowns

I cant... as long as they hold my craft bag hostage..... </3

Are they going to hold a gun to my face forcing me to gamble with these boxes?

Well atm i cant found them on PTS so i cant say if i like them or not sorry