Spending Undaunted Keys on the Update 12 PTS - Training, Prosperous, and no Impenetrable

Asmael · September 2016

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot i dont care what cp rank you have

my time is matter
and if you spent for example 30 days to grind to 730 with your non-training gear
i spent 20

simple, if you can to think

play as you like
if you prefer *** questing or lagging pvp or other things to earn 730 CP in a year
i prefer to reach 730 cp in 20 days

Training in the loot tables is technically wasting your time by forcing you to do more runs to get the gear you want tho.

Ghost-Shot · September 2016

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

@Ghost-Shot i dont care what cp rank you have

my time is matter
and if you spent for example 30 days to grind to 730 with your non-training gear
i spent 20

simple, if you can to think

play as you like
if you prefer *** questing or lagging pvp or other things to earn 730 CP in a year
i prefer to reach 730 cp in 20 days

Great, make some crafted training sets. My time matters too and the more time I spend farming gear only to get training over and over is time I can't spend playing the end game (trials and pvp).

Asardes · September 2016

Yep, waiting for the Khajiit vendor is certainly a waste of time. They should keep her there 7/24, but rotate trough her inventory every couple of days, or even daily and/or add impenetrable trait to all the loot pools in dungeons, trials, undaunted chests and overland sets. IMO they should extend the exclusion of training and prosperous and addition of impenetrable to include both undaunted chests and dungeon 5 piece sets. Also make the latter drop only in veteran mode of those dungeons, just like the monster heads. Then the rule would be consistent for all BoP sets - if you don't let me trade it, at least don't make me chop it down straight away for base materials after I've sweated for it.

Lumbermill_Emperor · September 2016

im glad training is still on monster sets

thats all
i hope you ZOS will not listen those ugly whiners!

Ghost-Shot · September 2016

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

im glad training is still on monster sets

thats all
i hope you ZOS will not listen those ugly whiners!

Good argument, sound logic, solid reasoning. GG

Asardes · September 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

im glad training is still on monster sets

thats all
i hope you ZOS will not listen those ugly whiners!

Good argument, sound logic, solid reasoning. GG

And even more suggestive account name. Hopefully they won't make training trait affect AP gain, or we'll have those run rampant in all campaigns

SleepyTroll · September 2016

Synozeer wrote: »

They mentioned on ESO LIve that one of the reasons they didn't/don't add Impen to the loot tables is that they don't want PvPers to feel like they have to PvE to get BiS (since if you can't wear impen, you're gimping yourself).

However, that theory goes out the window when you have jewelry and weapons for all sets. You can now run a 5 piece without wearing a single piece of armor, thus avoiding the limitation of not running impen, meaning PvPers need these sets. As a result, there's no reason not to have Impen, and like the majority of the vocal population has said, no need for Prosperous and Training on end game gear.

And the fact that you have to pve for fighters guild, mages guild, and the allmighty undaunted passive. Oh and do trials if you want impen trial gear.

Ghost-Shot · September 2016

Asardes wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

im glad training is still on monster sets

thats all
i hope you ZOS will not listen those ugly whiners!

Good argument, sound logic, solid reasoning. GG

And even more suggestive account name. Hopefully they won't make training trait affect AP gain, or we'll have those run rampant in all campaigns

Lol it will never be as bad as people parking their character in the tower of a blood port resource for ticks all day with a rubber band around their left mouse button.

Ashtaris · September 2016

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

im glad training is still on monster sets

thats all
i hope you ZOS will not listen those ugly whiners!

If you want Training gear for grinding, just have someone make a 7 piece set of whatever with the Training trait, take some XP scrolls or pots, subscribe, and go grind until you pass out from sleep deprevation :P There is no valid reason to have Training on end-game gear, period.

wildbear247 · September 2016

Totally agree with OP...please drop Prosperous and Training from the end-game loot tables and add Impenetrable.

Have we received any feedback from ZOS on this yet? They created that thread the General Discussion forum asking for feedback on just this issue and the overwhelming majority had the same stance regarding Prosperous, Training, and Impenetrable. I just assumed that it would be a part of Update 12, so I'm surprised it's not on the PTS yet.

*EDIT to add second paragraph*

DocFrost72 · September 2016

Asardes wrote: »

Not to mention grinding doesn't teach you how to play.

Everything else you said is fine, but this is silly. There is such a thing as grinding effectively.

Basically, yes I can spam puncturing sweeps over and over and drop mobs. No that will not work well in dungeons. But I learned how to fell massive groups of mobs in rapid fire succession through grinding. Better yet, I learned how to stay alive while doing so. I learned not to freak out, when to block, when to heal, when to roll dodge to reposition or avoid a pretty beefy salvo of red.

So thanks to grinding, I pop caltrops and endless hail, brawler then vigor, throw in a jabs flurry or two and a whole vet trash pull is wasted. I learned that from grinding.

To fix your quote: "Not striving for efficacy doesn't teach you how to play."

None of the above needs a freaking monster helm either. Let's drop prosperous and training from helms and shoulders.

mobicera · September 2016

Training and prosperous are op they are in need of a serious nerf, and drop rate needs to be increased to 92%...
That would fix everything I swear...

ZoM_Head · September 2016

redspecter23 wrote: »

I would love to sit down and have a one on one conversation with ZoS and find out their logic behind training and prosperous. The majority of players don't seem to want it at all, yet here we are still having to deal with it on our loot tables. Aside from annoyance, what is the reason they still exist on endgame gear? I was under the impression that annoying your playerbase was a bad thing when you can simply choose to just not do that instead.

Because they want their RNG to apply once a week to the cyrodiil vendor and spend you 100K gold or 200K AP on 1 of the impen pieces (shoulder or helmet) you are looking for, IF its on sale.

Then repeat this with the second monster set piece...whenever that will happen.

Transairion · September 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials

Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive

Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy

Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.

Already been linked but I'll do so again.

Training/Prosperous were never slated to be removed, so being surprised they're still around is pointless.

Impen IS meant to be drop everywhere but Trials, just because it doesn't on the current PTS build doesn't mean it won't in a future PTS build. No need to panic. Calm down and wait, it's literally in writing so ZOS isn't going to backflip and hoard Impen.

I'm not going to bother getting into the "Omg, Training/Properous in MY loot table?!" 'discussion' (rampant complaining) again, except to say it's selfish to remove traits from the loot table entirely because you personally don't want to use them. By that logic we'd go from 9 traits to about 2-4, since MOST of them are so specific in use they're worthless on most sets.

Deal with it already.

code65536 · September 2016

Keep in mind that with the key changes, ZOS has effectively boosted the drop rates of shoulders. Although I dislike both training and prosperous, I would be perfectly fine if they remained and impenetrable was added, which is what they had promised and which would be consistent with other dungeon drops. Replacing prosperous would be a nice bonus, but it was never the main thrust, and this bickering over these two traits is missing the point.

We need impenetrable because this is the One Tamriel update, not some Two Tamriel thing where we build more walls between the PvE and PvP player base.

I know @ZOS_RichLambert stated at PAX that they didn't want PvP players to feel like they have to PvE. But that's what the Golden vendor is for. Most PvP players that I have played with do a mix of both. What about those people? We should be giving people more options, not less, when it comes to where they get their gear.

People who never want to set foot in PvE have their vendor, but that shouldn't punish the many who choose to do both.

SwaminoNowlino · September 2016

Transairion wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We have an update for you. We will be making the following changes to Trait attainability with the launch of Update 12:
Prosperous and Training will be removed as a valid Trait for all items that drop in Trials

Valid Traits for Trials and Leaderboard rewards are as follows:
Weapons – Infused, Powered, Precise, Defending, Sharpened, Charged, Decisive

Armor – Infused, Divines, Well-Fitted, Reinforced, Sturdy

Items drops in the overland and in dungeons will have a chance of dropping with all available Traits, including Impenetrable

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us on this subject. We appreciate how constructive this discussion has been, and the ideas shared.

Already been linked but I'll do so again.

Training/Prosperous were never slated to be removed, so being surprised they're still around is pointless.

Impen IS meant to be drop everywhere but Trials, just because it doesn't on the current PTS build doesn't mean it won't in a future PTS build. No need to panic. Calm down and wait, it's literally in writing so ZOS isn't going to backflip and hoard Impen.

I'm not going to bother getting into the "Omg, Training/Properous in MY loot table?!" 'discussion' (rampant complaining) again, except to say it's selfish to remove traits from the loot table entirely because you personally don't want to use them. By that logic we'd go from 9 traits to about 2-4, since MOST of them are so specific in use they're worthless on most sets.

Deal with it already.

lol

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · September 2016

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Wycks · September 2016

LOL what a joke.

Years to fix the loot table and its still garbage.

arkansas_ESO · September 2016

Synozeer wrote: »

They mentioned on ESO LIve that one of the reasons they didn't/don't add Impen to the loot tables is that they don't want PvPers to feel like they have to PvE to get BiS (since if you can't wear impen, you're gimping yourself).

Wait, really? Why have things like Maelstrom and Master weapons, which are VERY strong (BiS for some builds) and make certain builds possible (I couldn't imagine running a stam DOT build without Maelstrom DW) gated behind the most difficult solo PVE content in the game? Not complaining, just curious why they use this stance for no impen in PVE, when they don't apply this stance anywhere else.

ZOS_RichLambert · September 2016

code65536 wrote: »

No, Impenetrable has not been restored.

Impen on monster mask sets isn't in yet. Should make the next PTS build. (not tomorrow's, but the one after)

WhiteMage · September 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

No, Impenetrable has not been restored.

Impen on monster mask sets isn't in yet. Should make the next PTS build. (not tomorrow's, but the one after)

Thank you! The more impen the better!

MissBizz · September 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

No, Impenetrable has not been restored.

Impen on monster mask sets isn't in yet. Should make the next PTS build. (not tomorrow's, but the one after)

@ZOS_RichLambert I mean this in this nicest way possible.

So you are further diluting the loot tables with impenetrable but NOT removing prosperous/training like what is happening with trials?

Paulington · September 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

No, Impenetrable has not been restored.

Impen on monster mask sets isn't in yet. Should make the next PTS build. (not tomorrow's, but the one after)

@ZOS_RichLambert I mean this in this nicest way possible.

So you are further diluting the loot tables with impenetrable but NOT removing prosperous/training like what is happening with trials?

This, plus it seems to go against the whole "We do not want to make PvP players feel they have to PvE to remain competitive" ethos that has been bandied about for a while.

Can we just get a really expensive trait reforging system and be done with it?

.

SleepyTroll · September 2016

Paulington wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

No, Impenetrable has not been restored.

Impen on monster mask sets isn't in yet. Should make the next PTS build. (not tomorrow's, but the one after)

@ZOS_RichLambert I mean this in this nicest way possible.

So you are further diluting the loot tables with impenetrable but NOT removing prosperous/training like what is happening with trials?

This, plus it seems to go against the whole "We do not want to make PvP players feel they have to PvE to remain competitive" ethos that has been bandied about for a while.

Can we just get a really expensive trait reforging system and be done with it? .

The fact that you have to pve for fighters guild, mages guild, and the almighty undaunted mettle passive already goes against that. Oh and do trials if you want impen trial gear.

bebynnag · September 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

No, Impenetrable has not been restored.

Impen on monster mask sets isn't in yet. Should make the next PTS build. (not tomorrow's, but the one after)

YAY!

MyNameIsElias · September 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

No, Impenetrable has not been restored.

Impen on monster mask sets isn't in yet. Should make the next PTS build. (not tomorrow's, but the one after)

EDIT: i read that too fast, my bad.

SirAndy · September 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I don't grind and I don't use a single piece of training gear and I have 730 CP, training should stay on crafted gear and trash items.

So you want ZOS to change their loot table because *you* don't need/want a certain trait?

Seems just a wee bit egotistical ...

ginoboehm · September 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

I don't grind and I don't use a single piece of training gear and I have 730 CP, training should stay on crafted gear and trash items.

So you want ZOS to change their loot table because *you* don't need/want a certain trait?

Seems just a wee bit egotistical ...

So you argue that there is a valid reason to grind for monster masks in training? You really argue that anybody will want monster masks in training or hell prosperous? Like literally wanting it and hoping for a drop? Who wants that and for what reason?

code65536 · September 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

No, Impenetrable has not been restored.

Impen on monster mask sets isn't in yet. Should make the next PTS build. (not tomorrow's, but the one after)

Awesome, thank you!

MissBizz wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

No, Impenetrable has not been restored.

Impen on monster mask sets isn't in yet. Should make the next PTS build. (not tomorrow's, but the one after)

@ZOS_RichLambert I mean this in this nicest way possible.

So you are further diluting the loot tables with impenetrable but NOT removing prosperous/training like what is happening with trials?

Keep in mind that every dilution of the table has been accompanied by an increase in the drop rate. Before Update 10, normal pledges had a 10% chance of a shoulder. This became 50% and soon it will be 100%. Vet pledges went from 50% to 100% and now every pledge can yield 2 keys for 200%.

While I would love to see prosperous removed, the important thing is that impenetrable is being restored and in the process, the drop rate increase has more than compensated for each dilution.

Grunim · September 2016

Lumbermill_Emperor wrote: »

im glad training is still on monster sets

thats all
i hope you ZOS will not listen those ugly whiners!

Seeing this makes me wish once someone reaches the CP cap the game was intelligent enough to exclude traits like Training from said player's loot table.

At this point in time, I could quit the game for one year, return, and still be above the new CP cap.

@ZOS_RichLambert Thanks for letting us know impen is coming soon