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The Removal of Bind on Equip from an Endgame Perspective

  • Autolycus
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    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    Pve players must now give up hours of time each week to have the resources to do their preferred content. You don't have to farm for flowers to keep a healthy stock of potions. I know this for a fact because I pvp too. I can make more money pvping all day that I can in pve, no matter how many hours I sink and no matter how good the rng is to me. A single PK in IC could be worth 20k gold. To make that much in a single kill in trials would take a great deal of favor from the RNG gods and assumes no cost associated with completing said trial from start to finish (which is the only way you'll have a chance at a lucrative drop, which I might remind you here is the going away in the next update; in other words, the whole point of this thread).

    Your conception of the "wealth gap" between pvp and pve is opposite of reality. You don't have to pay for repairs. You can very easily convert your AP into gold, which can be used to offset your potion consumption at a more reliable rate than any trials run would allow for. I think it's a pretty spoiled attitude to be sitting comfortably in a position that allows you to spend the overwhelming majority of your time doing what you want to do, and then take a stance against players who are unjustly having their primary reward system revoked. You don't have to farm; you choose to. Pve players are being forced to farm for no reason; the current system is fine and has been what the pve community has asked for and supported since day one.
  • Mojomonkeyman
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    Sallington wrote: »
    Sallington wrote: »
    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    So you can raid for your reasons, but other people's reasons make them spoiled.

    Got it.

    I only solo or duo.... your raids dont matter to me.

    Thanks for further proving my point I guess?

    Well, even if raids dont matter to me, I am usually quite a nice person who is enjoying other people having fun with whatever they do. I was progress raiding in wow for several years and can somehow relate to where OP is coming from.

    But since I was able to acquire another perspective by being PvP only I feel OP is completely ignoring the bigger picture (income gaps & stuff) in favor of defending his personal gain and the gain of people he considers part of his community.

    I can beat anyone in PvP, burn through so many stacks of potions a day when PvPing, I don`t think there´s any difference in quality of play or spendings. Yet I am not here claiming to be a super special 1% snowflake that needs to be subsidized by endless streams of sellable gold rewards.
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy
  • Mojomonkeyman
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    Autolycus wrote: »
    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    Pve players must now give up hours of time each week to have the resources to do their preferred content. You don't have to farm for flowers to keep a healthy stock of potions. I know this for a fact because I pvp too. I can make more money pvping all day that I can in pve, no matter how many hours I sink and no matter how good the rng is to me. A single PK in IC could be worth 20k gold. To make that much in a single kill in trials would take a great deal of favor from the RNG gods and assumes no cost associated with completing said trial from start to finish (which is the only way you'll have a chance at a lucrative drop, which I might remind you here is the going away in the next update; in other words, the whole point of this thread).

    Your conception of the "wealth gap" between pvp and pve is opposite of reality. You don't have to pay for repairs. You can very easily convert your AP into gold, which can be used to offset your potion consumption at a more reliable rate than any trials run would allow for. I think it's a pretty spoiled attitude to be sitting comfortably in a position that allows you to spend the overwhelming majority of your time doing what you want to do, and then take a stance against players who are unjustly having their primary reward system revoked. You don't have to farm; you choose to. Pve players are being forced to farm for no reason; the current system is fine and has been what the pve community has asked for and supported since day one.

    That was a worth a good laugh. Have you ever done PvP? I mean not the kindergarden handholding raid version. I mean just you solo out there fighting people for the PvP, not the AP. I play for good, challenging fights. You do not earn much that way.
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy
  • Autolycus
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    Autolycus wrote: »
    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    Pve players must now give up hours of time each week to have the resources to do their preferred content. You don't have to farm for flowers to keep a healthy stock of potions. I know this for a fact because I pvp too. I can make more money pvping all day that I can in pve, no matter how many hours I sink and no matter how good the rng is to me. A single PK in IC could be worth 20k gold. To make that much in a single kill in trials would take a great deal of favor from the RNG gods and assumes no cost associated with completing said trial from start to finish (which is the only way you'll have a chance at a lucrative drop, which I might remind you here is the going away in the next update; in other words, the whole point of this thread).

    Your conception of the "wealth gap" between pvp and pve is opposite of reality. You don't have to pay for repairs. You can very easily convert your AP into gold, which can be used to offset your potion consumption at a more reliable rate than any trials run would allow for. I think it's a pretty spoiled attitude to be sitting comfortably in a position that allows you to spend the overwhelming majority of your time doing what you want to do, and then take a stance against players who are unjustly having their primary reward system revoked. You don't have to farm; you choose to. Pve players are being forced to farm for no reason; the current system is fine and has been what the pve community has asked for and supported since day one.

    That was a worth a good laugh. Have you ever done PvP? I mean not the kindergarden handholding raid version. I mean just you solo out there fighting people for the PvP, not the AP. I play for good, challenging fights. You do not earn much that way.

    I'd wager that nearly 3 years of pvp experience (the overwhelming majority of which is solo or duo) is enough to earn my credibility. I have fun when I pvp; what makes you assume that I do not? Do you honestly believe I would partake in content that I do not enjoy? Were that the case, I would not be so adamant about seeing this change to BoE reversed before it hits live. I spent only 4-6 hours in IC during the double TV event last week, and of those few hours I earned over 100k gold, over 90% of which was taken directly from players in a fair fight (not ganking).

    Just because you personally do not know how to make money and have fun at the same time does not qualify you to tell players from a completely different form of content (of which you clearly have minimal knowledge at best, you said so yourself) what they may or may not do with their time. If you stepped back for a moment to realize that nobody here is asking for more, rather they are asking for things to remain as they are, maybe you'd start to realize how wrong you are.
    Edited by Autolycus on September 7, 2016 6:25PM
  • hedna123b14_ESO
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    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    Endgame is boring after u get all the gear you want...scores become the only goal, scores with no rewards is what we will have if this change goes through. We had this already prior to Trial scaling and no one did trials, because there was NO REASON TO!
  • hedna123b14_ESO
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    Sallington wrote: »
    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    So you can raid for your reasons, but other people's reasons make them spoiled.

    Got it.

    I only solo or duo.... your raids dont matter to me.

    Which is why your opinion is uninformed and thus unimportant.
  • Carbonised
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    Either we need a regular droppable reward to compensate the cost or the in trial vendor needs to buy our trial gear drops for a heck of a lot more than the overland vendors are doing.


    No you don't need that, you want that. There is a difference.

    And still you wonder why some people think you come off as entitled?

    Plenty of people play this game doing what they want with little or no reward to show for it, but apparently 'hardcore' trial raids think they belong to some sort of special category a large step above everyone else. Too sophisticated to pick up your own weeds and plants, apparently. Leave that work to the casual peasants.

    And god forbid you should actually carry those casual peasants through vMoL for a mere 800k. Like that will be the end of the world.
  • Mojomonkeyman
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    Sallington wrote: »
    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    So you can raid for your reasons, but other people's reasons make them spoiled.

    Got it.

    I only solo or duo.... your raids dont matter to me.

    Which is why your opinion is uninformed and thus unimportant.

    Because ESO raiding is fancy science to you? Good one. But since we are talking about income/time investment related issues, general attitude and not ESO raiding per se, your post is irrelevant either way.
    Edited by Mojomonkeyman on September 7, 2016 6:34PM
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy
  • Sallington
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    Sallington wrote: »
    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    So you can raid for your reasons, but other people's reasons make them spoiled.

    Got it.

    I only solo or duo.... your raids dont matter to me.

    Which is why your opinion is uninformed and thus unimportant.

    Because ESO raiding is fancy science to you? Good one. But since we are talking about income/time investment related issues, general attitude and not ESO raiding per se, your post is irrelevant either way.

    The title of the thread is "The Removal of Bind on Equip from an Endgame Perspective".

    Seems to me it's a pretty focused topic that you keep trying to derail for some reason. Something you yourself admit to not being involved in.
    Daggerfall Covenant
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  • Carbonised
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    Sallington wrote: »
    Sallington wrote: »
    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    So you can raid for your reasons, but other people's reasons make them spoiled.

    Got it.

    I only solo or duo.... your raids dont matter to me.

    Which is why your opinion is uninformed and thus unimportant.

    Because ESO raiding is fancy science to you? Good one. But since we are talking about income/time investment related issues, general attitude and not ESO raiding per se, your post is irrelevant either way.

    The title of the thread is "The Removal of Bind on Equip from an Endgame Perspective".

    Seems to me it's a pretty focused topic that you keep trying to derail for some reason. Something you yourself admit to not being involved in.

    It's funny how you keep dismissing everyone who doesn't agree with you (you being those of you who argue vehemently on this topic).

    it's not like it's not my tripots and spellpower/weapon power pots who support your whole raid. Seeing as I spend a good part of my gameing time gathering and trading, including said pots.

    And it's not like it's not all those dirty casual peasants who buy all your overpriced gold trial gear that you want to finance your raids with selling.

    It would be kinda nice if you stopped pretending you lived in an ESO vacuum, or that it somehow requires a phd in gaming economics to be entitled to having an opinion on the topic of this debate.

    Dirty casuals and dirty pvp'ers aren't allowed to participate in your discussion, but even the ESO devs (who came up with this bound item issue in the first place) have no idea what they're doing. I guess no one knows anything about this topic other than you? How convenient =p

    Maybe you could start going after the ball instead of the man. I still haven't seen any argument as to why you're too important to pick up your own darn plants when everyone else are doing exactly that.
    Edited by Carbonised on September 7, 2016 6:44PM
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
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    Carbonised wrote: »
    Sallington wrote: »
    Sallington wrote: »
    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    So you can raid for your reasons, but other people's reasons make them spoiled.

    Got it.

    I only solo or duo.... your raids dont matter to me.

    Which is why your opinion is uninformed and thus unimportant.

    Because ESO raiding is fancy science to you? Good one. But since we are talking about income/time investment related issues, general attitude and not ESO raiding per se, your post is irrelevant either way.

    The title of the thread is "The Removal of Bind on Equip from an Endgame Perspective".

    Seems to me it's a pretty focused topic that you keep trying to derail for some reason. Something you yourself admit to not being involved in.

    It's funny how you keep dismissing everyone who doesn't agree with you (you being those of you who argue vehemently on this topic).

    it's not like it's not my tripots and spellpower/weapon power pots who support your whole raid. Seeing as I spend a good part of my gameing time gathering and trading, including said pots.

    And it's not like it's not all those dirty casual peasants who buy all your overpriced gold trial gear that you want to finance your raids with selling.

    It would be kinda nice if you stopped pretending you lived in an ESO vacuum, or that it somehow requires a phd in gaming economics to be entitled to having an opinion on the topic of this debate.

    Dirty casuals and dirty pvp'ers aren't allowed to participate in your discussion, but even the ESO devs (who came up with this bound item issue in the first place) have no idea what they're doing. I guess no one knows anything about this topic other than you? How convenient =p

    Maybe you could start going after the ball instead of the man. I still haven't seen any argument as to why you're too important to pick up your own darn plants when everyone else are doing exactly that.

    All of the meaningless nonsense from this aside, I call attention specifically to the bolded portion.

    Perhaps you were too busy asserting your uneducated opinion on the matter to notice, but there is not a single person here who says they are too good to pick flowers. The absolute best you can do (to use against us) is to say that we would rather spend our time participating in trials content than farming, which is a playstyle preference, and even ZOS will take our side on that one.
  • potirondb16_ESO
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    @Mojomonkeyman ,

    As far as PVP goes, you can if you are as good as stated probably do what 150k AP and more per night ? That's usually what one would consider being Inside the Elite Pvp community no ? If you do that two night in a row you do around 250k which mean Something near 5 reward of the worthy (2k gold + 12 sellable) and you get acces to Akaviri or Other piece which can sell inbetween 10 to 50k depending how Lucky you are with RNG if you go for crates.

    That's about what you can get each two night as part of an elite community. So overall almost 35k a night and if you keep on doing once a week you gain a gold item which sell for 100k+ usually. so Overall considering a 5 night a week scenario 250k gold. That's if RNG is on your side and if may depend.

    Now on the Other end Pve has the same scenario, we get inbetwee 8 and 12 loot a night, most of us. On all of those some are BoP which makes for no money usually in vet it's over 80% of them. So you receive 1/2 sellable a night and 8 a week, some of them are BiS for specific build while other sell for Nothing.

    Overall the last reward is a gold ring which at launch of the trial (what we are experiencing right now) are Worth 500k sometimes... a price very likely to remind me of vicious death ring back at their launch... So overall as for Right now both team have the same income, and we didn't consider on both side the money making scenario (Tv player farming and Normal Trial farming)...

    So overall, even if the reward of the worthy should be updated sometime soon, pvp will keep their potential 35k a night for the best among them while pve will drop at 0. (Talk about a spoiled group !)

    @Carbonised ,

    Lolll, you know your point is valid, we should probably picks up weeds and plant, and go farm mats all around map and we should probably but in the end wouldn't it be the community who's doing that as their only source of income who would loose from it ? The way the economy is build is simple, people who gather stuff around map are really well paid ! If you have Temper and do Resselling in this game you probably carry more cash in your bank account that anyone else.

    People who buy what you guys are doing are usually the people to whom you buy some gear, it always was. but it's also true that If you ever have the occasion to bound with an end-game player you'll notice one thing they mostly all got in common, they are an helping bunch.

    We craft gear for people who need, take time to help people improve (rotation/gear advice/ etc.) , bring them into stuff they'd never experience (dungeon, trial, etc.) , give away loot when we know someone's been looking for it (sometimes even over 50k one), and give stuff to people when they miss it (potion/gems/etc.), while we pay for the one we receive...

    That's too what the end-game community is about, lowering income from those people or lowering their capacity to share stuff through the community also mean creating cluster for this part of the community !

  • code65536
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    Carbonised wrote: »
    it's not like it's not my tripots and spellpower/weapon power pots who support your whole raid. Seeing as I spend a good part of my gameing time gathering and trading, including said pots.

    And it's not like it's not all those dirty casual peasants who buy all your overpriced gold trial gear that you want to finance your raids with selling.

    Economics is about exchange. Alice farms gear, sells to Bob. Bobs farms flower, sells to Alice. What happens when Alice can't farm gear any more? Who is Bob going to sell the flowers to if Alice is forced to farm her own flowers and if Alice has no gold to pay for Bob's flowers? And where is Bob going to get that gear if Alice is no longer able to farm for him?

    If you care about selling potions (and I know you do), then you should be worried about how this change will adversely impact you and your style of play.
    Edited by code65536 on September 7, 2016 6:51PM
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  • Carbonised
    Carbonised
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    @Carbonised ,

    Lolll, you know your point is valid, we should probably picks up weeds and plant, and go farm mats all around map and we should probably but in the end wouldn't it be the community who's doing that as their only source of income who would loose from it ? The way the economy is build is simple, people who gather stuff around map are really well paid ! If you have Temper and do Resselling in this game you probably carry more cash in your bank account that anyone else.

    People who buy what you guys are doing are usually the people to whom you buy some gear, it always was. but it's also true that If you ever have the occasion to bound with an end-game player you'll notice one thing they mostly all got in common, they are an helping bunch.

    We craft gear for people who need, take time to help people improve (rotation/gear advice/ etc.) , bring them into stuff they'd never experience (dungeon, trial, etc.) , give away loot when we know someone's been looking for it (sometimes even over 50k one), and give stuff to people when they miss it (potion/gems/etc.), while we pay for the one we receive...

    That's too what the end-game community is about, lowering income from those people or lowering their capacity to share stuff through the community also mean creating cluster for this part of the community !

    You know what, basically I agree with you, and agree with this. If you even go way back to my first reply in this thread, you can see just that. I agree. It's not like I'm a biggr fan of BoP than any of you either.

    What Mojo and I seem to be arguing about here is that we don't really appreciate the tone of entitlement that comes across from many of these so-called 'hardcore' trial raiders. It seems entitled, somewhat arrogant and it seems like you think you're too good for something as base as picking up flowers. Maybe if you had been more humble and reflected about this, instead of many of you going on the extreme defensive, even so much as to demean others who have different opinions than you, then you wouldn't have gotten these reactions from Mojo and I.

    And you're not entirely correct in your assumption about my bank account. I spend a lot of time (or rather, used to spend, now I don't rally play the game any more) picking up stuff and farming and selling stuff. But when 1 motif sets me back 1M, and when 4 new motifs are released every 3 months, guess what, that doesn't really make me a rich person. Sure I don't have to buy motifs, but i want to, hence I'm no fat cat. There you go, it's all about choices. We decide what we do with our gaming time, but we can't expect that all choices will yield a bounty of rewards.

    So once again, if you feel grinding vet trials is unrewarding and not fun, well, it's not like anyone's forcing you to do it then.
  • Shadesofkin
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    Carbonised wrote: »
    Either we need a regular droppable reward to compensate the cost or the in trial vendor needs to buy our trial gear drops for a heck of a lot more than the overland vendors are doing.


    No you don't need that, you want that. There is a difference.

    And still you wonder why some people think you come off as entitled?

    Plenty of people play this game doing what they want with little or no reward to show for it, but apparently 'hardcore' trial raids think they belong to some sort of special category a large step above everyone else. Too sophisticated to pick up your own weeds and plants, apparently. Leave that work to the casual peasants.

    And god forbid you should actually carry those casual peasants through vMoL for a mere 800k. Like that will be the end of the world.

    1. I am entitled. I am entitled to a quality experience, which I believe is being removed from me.
    2. People who play the game for enjoyment are welcome to, that doesn't mean they're better or less, they're just...not us. This thread is about us.
    3. Anyone who's carried knows how annoying it gets having to rez and compensate for casual players in a trial. It might not be worth it in the end. Plus, it's cheap.

    I respect that you're providing an opposing viewpoint here though.
    @shadesofkin -NA Server.
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    MagDK Main forever (even in the bad times)
  • potirondb16_ESO
    potirondb16_ESO
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    Carbonised wrote: »
    @Carbonised ,

    Lolll, you know your point is valid, we should probably picks up weeds and plant, and go farm mats all around map and we should probably but in the end wouldn't it be the community who's doing that as their only source of income who would loose from it ? The way the economy is build is simple, people who gather stuff around map are really well paid ! If you have Temper and do Resselling in this game you probably carry more cash in your bank account that anyone else.

    People who buy what you guys are doing are usually the people to whom you buy some gear, it always was. but it's also true that If you ever have the occasion to bound with an end-game player you'll notice one thing they mostly all got in common, they are an helping bunch.

    We craft gear for people who need, take time to help people improve (rotation/gear advice/ etc.) , bring them into stuff they'd never experience (dungeon, trial, etc.) , give away loot when we know someone's been looking for it (sometimes even over 50k one), and give stuff to people when they miss it (potion/gems/etc.), while we pay for the one we receive...

    That's too what the end-game community is about, lowering income from those people or lowering their capacity to share stuff through the community also mean creating cluster for this part of the community !

    You know what, basically I agree with you, and agree with this. If you even go way back to my first reply in this thread, you can see just that. I agree. It's not like I'm a biggr fan of BoP than any of you either.

    What Mojo and I seem to be arguing about here is that we don't really appreciate the tone of entitlement that comes across from many of these so-called 'hardcore' trial raiders. It seems entitled, somewhat arrogant and it seems like you think you're too good for something as base as picking up flowers. Maybe if you had been more humble and reflected about this, instead of many of you going on the extreme defensive, even so much as to demean others who have different opinions than you, then you wouldn't have gotten these reactions from Mojo and I.

    And you're not entirely correct in your assumption about my bank account. I spend a lot of time (or rather, used to spend, now I don't rally play the game any more) picking up stuff and farming and selling stuff. But when 1 motif sets me back 1M, and when 4 new motifs are released every 3 months, guess what, that doesn't really make me a rich person. Sure I don't have to buy motifs, but i want to, hence I'm no fat cat. There you go, it's all about choices. We decide what we do with our gaming time, but we can't expect that all choices will yield a bounty of rewards.

    So once again, if you feel grinding vet trials is unrewarding and not fun, well, it's not like anyone's forcing you to do it then.

    Bah you know how an MMO works right, 20% of the reason you got in is situationnal, 80% of the reason why you're still playing after two year is the community surrounding you ! Most people have felt the harsh cost of IC release where all the trial had no loot to sell since they were all v12 or v14 and when we knew Nothing as for when the new trial would come. When that happend guild lost over 80% of their core group whom all decide to switch game in order to go Inside one where they could be taken into account by the developper.

    Now a scenario which is likely to repeat that experience is about to happend. @Nifty2g group isn't at their first run and they are most likely running those dungeon with already fully equip player who mostly are tied together by time more then content and which he wouldn't like to loose for some stupidity as a BoP system.

    On my side, my team is not yet veteran trial material but this fall we recruted a bunch of player. I play in French on N/A so guess how low the community is when 80% of the french population in the continent come from a tiny province counting 6 millions people :pensive: but we think we have a shot at this, and for the first time we might actually have the right momentum to keep people interested into trial... guess how disapointing that would be if those twelve player we assemble would leave... That would probably be the end of raiding in french on N/A server for a while.

    So that's also our position and where we come from, at least me. I do believe this can also explain why we are so eager to protect the attractivity of the trial, because we try to protect the integrity of our team too.
    Edited by potirondb16_ESO on September 7, 2016 7:11PM
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sallington wrote: »
    What is EPEEN? I play for improving as a player, for the challenge and ultimately for the fun. I don`t need aynthing more.

    I think it`s a pretty spoiled attitude to not only be the horse demanding a carrot to chase, no, but also demanding that the carrot can be sold to cover any cost with it. Especially when considering the income gap between both endgame worlds, pvp and pve.

    So you can raid for your reasons, but other people's reasons make them spoiled.

    Got it.

    I only solo or duo.... your raids dont matter to me.

    Which is why your opinion is uninformed and thus unimportant.

    Because ESO raiding is fancy science to you? Good one. But since we are talking about income/time investment related issues, general attitude and not ESO raiding per se, your post is irrelevant either way.

    You are not involved in an activity that you keep making judgements on, therfore you are ineligible from offering constructive criticism on it.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User]
    Soul Shriven
    Hello everyone,

    Recently we've had to remove a few posts for going a little further than they needed to. Please keep in mind that flaming another member's opinion is against the Forum Rules, as it tends to only lead to off topic arguments. We understand there are two sides to this discussion, we only ask that both sides remain civil when stating their cases on the matter and respectful towards the other sides views and vice versa.

    Thank you for understanding.
    Staff Post
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Either we need a regular droppable reward to compensate the cost or the in trial vendor needs to buy our trial gear drops for a heck of a lot more than the overland vendors are doing.


    No you don't need that, you want that. There is a difference.

    And still you wonder why some people think you come off as entitled?

    Plenty of people play this game doing what they want with little or no reward to show for it, but apparently 'hardcore' trial raids think they belong to some sort of special category a large step above everyone else. Too sophisticated to pick up your own weeds and plants, apparently. Leave that work to the casual peasants.

    And god forbid you should actually carry those casual peasants through vMoL for a mere 800k. Like that will be the end of the world.

    If we pick our own flower how will you make money? Are you atalking all familiar with optimization? In an assembly line there are people that make one part and other people making another part. This system is what allies fast production pace. If you force each worker to do the complete assembly of parts your productivity plummets.
  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    What a shame
    that a legitimate post describing a practical issue arisen from the changes of the coming patch update

    is drawn into the gutter

    of controversities between PVP vs PVE, Elitist vs Non-elitist, etc
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • AmberLaTerra
    AmberLaTerra
    ✭✭✭✭
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Again let me repeat myself, I'm not a bigger fan og BoP than you are, I don't like it either, but don't make trial people appear as beggars who can barely make ends meet, because that's really a l2p issue aka. learn to prioritize.
    You can not come in here and tell people what to do, or how to spend their time. I do not tell PvPers to go and do undaunted pledges for their helms, neither does the game force them to anymore, their are other ways for them to do it.
    So tell me, why should I have to stop doing what I like so I can buy my potions as another way of not having to farm.

    Don't come in here and tell people to prioritize, who are you?

    Uhm, as long as there is freedom of speech, I believe I can come in here and say pretty much what I want.

    Sure, you're free to do whatever the heck you want to mate, live in vet trials if that's what you want, but no, I don't think you should get more rewards out of that than what you already get. That's a consequence of the choice you make - deal with it.

    We don't want to get more, we just don't want to get less than now. Is it that hard to understand?

    Nope, I understand you pretty well. And I don't agree with you, and I have made it clear why I don't agree, is that hard to understand?

    Also, going back a page or two in this thread, and others have made the exact same arguements like I have so it's not like I'm the only one.

    Sure, I get it, you want to do only trials and get rich from that, selling your 500k rings and jewels to fools like me. I disagree with that, that's all. Can we disagree on something without feeling the need to throw a hissyfit about it?

    Yeah get rich from it my cash stack combined across 12 chars currently is about 500k, I have gotten so rich raiding haven't I??? Between the money I put back into my trade guild, and the money I spend on supplies to help guild mates in social guilds learn to raid I break even from my raid drops. My main income is fishing and selling the Psijic Ambrosia I make from the perfect roe I get not raiding.

    All the change to BoP for everything in raids will do is make something I currently break even doing lose me way more money then will be worth bothering with.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    CP 365 Nord DK DPS EP
    CP 365 Imperal DK Stam Tank EP
    Level 9 Imperial Stam Templar EP
    Cp 365 Khajiit Stam Blade EP

    For the glory of the Pact
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Mojomonkeyman ,

    As far as PVP goes, you can if you are as good as stated probably do what 150k AP and more per night ? That's usually what one would consider being Inside the Elite Pvp community no ? If you do that two night in a row you do around 250k which mean Something near 5 reward of the worthy (2k gold + 12 sellable) and you get acces to Akaviri or Other piece which can sell inbetween 10 to 50k depending how Lucky you are with RNG if you go for crates.

    That's about what you can get each two night as part of an elite community. So overall almost 35k a night and if you keep on doing once a week you gain a gold item which sell for 100k+ usually. so Overall considering a 5 night a week scenario 250k gold. That's if RNG is on your side and if may depend.

    Now on the Other end Pve has the same scenario, we get inbetwee 8 and 12 loot a night, most of us. On all of those some are BoP which makes for no money usually in vet it's over 80% of them. So you receive 1/2 sellable a night and 8 a week, some of them are BiS for specific build while other sell for Nothing.

    Overall the last reward is a gold ring which at launch of the trial (what we are experiencing right now) are Worth 500k sometimes... a price very likely to remind me of vicious death ring back at their launch... So overall as for Right now both team have the same income, and we didn't consider on both side the money making scenario (Tv player farming and Normal Trial farming)...

    So overall, even if the reward of the worthy should be updated sometime soon, pvp will keep their potential 35k a night for the best among them while pve will drop at 0. (Talk about a spoiled group !)

    @Carbonised ,

    Lolll, you know your point is valid, we should probably picks up weeds and plant, and go farm mats all around map and we should probably but in the end wouldn't it be the community who's doing that as their only source of income who would loose from it ? The way the economy is build is simple, people who gather stuff around map are really well paid ! If you have Temper and do Resselling in this game you probably carry more cash in your bank account that anyone else.

    People who buy what you guys are doing are usually the people to whom you buy some gear, it always was. but it's also true that If you ever have the occasion to bound with an end-game player you'll notice one thing they mostly all got in common, they are an helping bunch.

    We craft gear for people who need, take time to help people improve (rotation/gear advice/ etc.) , bring them into stuff they'd never experience (dungeon, trial, etc.) , give away loot when we know someone's been looking for it (sometimes even over 50k one), and give stuff to people when they miss it (potion/gems/etc.), while we pay for the one we receive...

    That's too what the end-game community is about, lowering income from those people or lowering their capacity to share stuff through the community also mean creating cluster for this part of the community !

    I agree with this sentiment. Were it that more people understood just how many others in the community are helped by the alleged "hardcore raiders that are too sophisticated to pick their own flowers." Let's be honest here, while there may be hardcore raiders present on this thread, it isn't owned or dictated by people who think they have the only valid opinion, nor is anyone here asking for anything unreasonable.

    I cannot begin to count the number of people I've taken through content they just weren't ready for. I don't charge people to come on veteran trial runs when there are spots open, or when we just feel like bringing new faces along. But it's important to consider that this is a completely separate topic from what is being discussed here.

    The point of this thread is that ESO, on the live server, allows for the occasional loot drop be sold to the community for a price determined entirely by the free market. The term "unreasonable" only applies to those circumstances that involved dishonest practices, and the vast majority of people who participate in this economy (which is virtually everyone to some extent) are doing so fairly and humbly.

    There is nothing unfair about asking for things to remain the way they are. The current system is one that benefits the entire community, as many have pointed out. Time spent by those who farm materials for potions is modestly rewarded with a humble (many might say overpriced, but again I point to the free market) price for potions and materials. Those potions and materials are used to aid other players in content, which awards gear that goes back to the community. In some cases, the gear is retained by the raiders who completed the trial, but even in this circumstance is undoubtedly a piece that cannot be sold anyway (like VO or IA).

    Again, as many have pointed out already, removal of BoE gear from trials and dungeons breaks this cycle. It's not the players who are to blame for this; we didn't ask for it and we are obviously opposed. If this change goes live, all of the "softcore" (lol, can't help but laugh b/c these labels are so stupid) players will have to compete with everyone else who has to begin farming their own potion materials, and there will be no gear for them to buy.

    Basically, those of you who are arguing with us against this change, and would see BoE gear removed from dungeons and trials, will see two things happen when it goes live:
    1. You will have a harder time making money from your potions and flowers, because we will have to start doing it ourselves or will buy it from someone else who sees the opportunity to undercut your prices.
    2. You will have to spend less time farming for flowers and potions, and more time doing the content yourself. This means you're going to spend hours upon hours learning it and improving your character to get that same gear you could have just purchased from other players. Maybe you are someone who would prefer to earn yourself; there's nothing wrong with that. But that in and of itself is not justification to trash talk people who not only appreciate what you do for the community, but would like to be allowed that discretion as well.

    It doesn't matter what form of content each of us prefers, at the end of the day what matters is that we are allowed to make that decision for ourselves. Removal of BoE gear forces a portion of this community to spend time on something they would prefer to spend elsewhere.
    Edited by Autolycus on September 7, 2016 8:23PM
  • SirMewser
    SirMewser
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If ZoS is to make everything bind of pickup then they better add more and further improved set bonus crafting stations. This would be good as it would serve ZoS a way to add diversity for builds and playstyles while also making crafting a way to gain money through guild vendors. So far this is not the case, shame.
  • Daveheart
    Daveheart
    ✭✭✭✭
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    It's a game, you should be able to only do what you like...

    "It's a game, so please have material nodes spawn AP as well, I shouldn't be forced to get AP from pvp since I don't like pvp'ing"

    "It's a game, so please have Dro-m'Athra motif and celestial motif drop from solo content. I don't like trials and I shouldn't be forced to do trials to get motifs"

    "It's a game, so remove BoP from IC sets and Orsinium sets. I don't like doing IC dungeons and Wrothgar dailies, so don't force me to do it if I don't want to"

    "It's a game, so remove BoP from Maelstrom weapons and Master weapons. I shouldn't have to do DSA and MA if I don't like it"

    "It's a game, so have all content in the game drop all rewards. I should be forced to solo/pvp/pve/trial if I don't want to, but I still want access to everything while doing 2 % of the content"

    etc etc etc

    Anyway, I believe I made my point clear in the first post in this thread, the aggression and somewhat immature reponses that followed from you three so-called 'hardcore top trial raiders' was a little funny, but this is quickly spiralling towards the inconstructive, so I'm out. Enjoy your raiding.

    1. you only need AP to buy siege-weapons and akaviri-motif and to get the sets from rewards of the worthy. You can sell your materials and then buy all of this. --> no problem
    2. You can do solo-content, sell the stuff from solo-content and buy the motifs --> no problem
    3. you can buy the triphies and open all the vaults in the nex patch to get those sets --> won't be a problem
    4. people are constantly asking for a better system especially regarding those maelstromeweapons (token system, master weapons through pvp-rewards...) --> needs to be solved
    5. as long as you get something in this 2% which can be exchanged for other things that sounds great isn't it?

    the game isn't perfect in it's current state, but it's ok (or even great) for endgame-raiding atm. Why do they change something which is good? People get sets from trials without doing them and raider can get some money to buy potions. Those who sell potions get money from the raiders and can (if they need) buy equipment from raiders. What's the problem with this?

    For me, the issue lies in the "need" for potions. Again, sympathetic and you guys should all be able to raid to your heart's content, but I don't see why content that requires you to chug expensive pots is a good idea.

    Change alchemy, change the need for pots, but ZoS typically doesn't go back on things. It may help to come.up with alternatives for a world.with BoP. Is BoP a good idea? No, not at all, but I'm not sure any number of player requests will change the course we're on.

    It's as much a competitive thing as anything else. Are there some guild who can complete veteran trials without potions? Sure. However, if trial guild A currently holds number 1 scores for 2/4 trials, guild B has the other two, and guild C is really close to breaking several of those scores but decides to run without potions, do you think guild C is likely to break into the lead for any of those trials? Do you think guilds A and B are likely to agree to lower their efficiency by forgoing potions too?

    Essentially, the competitive guilds must maintain the use of potions in order to remain competitive.
    Daggerfall Covenant (PC-NA)

    The Order of Mundus | Nightfighters
  • Dromede
    Dromede
    ✭✭✭✭
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Why not adjust tactics around NOT consuming pots?

    You can for things like vet dungeons. But for vet trials, the content is tuned such that the amount of DPS and sustain that is required doesn't really leave you much room for adjustment.

    I guess that is the thing I can't quite wrap my head around. I don't raid Vet, I raid normal so I'm missing a key component, but I can definately say if I had to run crafed potions that cost an arm and a leg to compete, to me it would seem gold, not skill, buys leaderboards (assuming two identicle groups one with potions one with trash pots).

    Just my view.

    OMG! What if devs are behind pots cost increase to promote the upcoming rng crates full of consumables to make your raids cheaper in terms of gold and more expensive in terms of real money? This way you gain advantage through crowns, this is game slowly moving to p2w through consumables?!!!111 >:)>:)>:)

    Semi-crazy conspiracy theories aside, this is how it goes in my guild: noone cares what you bring to normal trial farms, but if a player shows up to a vet trial progression, he/she is expected to perform at the best of their abilities. It's also pretty obvious who's slacking for whatever reason - fights like vHel-Ra upstairs boss make it crystal clear as each player gets their own add to deal with.

    Pots used to be one of the easiest and cheapest ways to increase dps - it allows you to take pure buff skills out of rotation, eases sustain and helps you suck a little less. Showing up to a vet trial with mediocre dps and drop pots is just plain rude - just like not having enough soul gems or repair kits.

    Good crafted pots are a nessessity of a vet trial, not a luxury. Whatever reward for vet trial is, tradeable value should be not less than of 50-100 pots.

    Idk about ways to adjust reward value to ever increasing pots market value, but 10k once every 5 days is not goimg to cut it :(
    Skye Cloude - Sorc DPS, Master Crafter. Main, the bestest
    Lae Lenne - Templar Healer Trial grade.
    Dromede - Stamina Nightblade, she's a newb and doesn't know what she's doing
    V'oghatta - Stamplar pretending to be a tank
    Ulville Thonvella - aspiring Fire Mage, be careful around her fire sticks!
    Dromedaris - lost and not found. Named after a shoe, what else can you expect from her? A proper tank in her wildest dreams
    Swims-Naked - too pretty to grind, too silly to quest.
    Sun Flair - Dunmer Templar that can't spell for life. To bad she's too broke to afford a name change... Well, at least she's pretty...
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Daveheart wrote: »
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    It's a game, you should be able to only do what you like...

    "It's a game, so please have material nodes spawn AP as well, I shouldn't be forced to get AP from pvp since I don't like pvp'ing"

    "It's a game, so please have Dro-m'Athra motif and celestial motif drop from solo content. I don't like trials and I shouldn't be forced to do trials to get motifs"

    "It's a game, so remove BoP from IC sets and Orsinium sets. I don't like doing IC dungeons and Wrothgar dailies, so don't force me to do it if I don't want to"

    "It's a game, so remove BoP from Maelstrom weapons and Master weapons. I shouldn't have to do DSA and MA if I don't like it"

    "It's a game, so have all content in the game drop all rewards. I should be forced to solo/pvp/pve/trial if I don't want to, but I still want access to everything while doing 2 % of the content"

    etc etc etc

    Anyway, I believe I made my point clear in the first post in this thread, the aggression and somewhat immature reponses that followed from you three so-called 'hardcore top trial raiders' was a little funny, but this is quickly spiralling towards the inconstructive, so I'm out. Enjoy your raiding.

    1. you only need AP to buy siege-weapons and akaviri-motif and to get the sets from rewards of the worthy. You can sell your materials and then buy all of this. --> no problem
    2. You can do solo-content, sell the stuff from solo-content and buy the motifs --> no problem
    3. you can buy the triphies and open all the vaults in the nex patch to get those sets --> won't be a problem
    4. people are constantly asking for a better system especially regarding those maelstromeweapons (token system, master weapons through pvp-rewards...) --> needs to be solved
    5. as long as you get something in this 2% which can be exchanged for other things that sounds great isn't it?

    the game isn't perfect in it's current state, but it's ok (or even great) for endgame-raiding atm. Why do they change something which is good? People get sets from trials without doing them and raider can get some money to buy potions. Those who sell potions get money from the raiders and can (if they need) buy equipment from raiders. What's the problem with this?

    For me, the issue lies in the "need" for potions. Again, sympathetic and you guys should all be able to raid to your heart's content, but I don't see why content that requires you to chug expensive pots is a good idea.

    Change alchemy, change the need for pots, but ZoS typically doesn't go back on things. It may help to come.up with alternatives for a world.with BoP. Is BoP a good idea? No, not at all, but I'm not sure any number of player requests will change the course we're on.

    It's as much a competitive thing as anything else. Are there some guild who can complete veteran trials without potions? Sure. However, if trial guild A currently holds number 1 scores for 2/4 trials, guild B has the other two, and guild C is really close to breaking several of those scores but decides to run without potions, do you think guild C is likely to break into the lead for any of those trials? Do you think guilds A and B are likely to agree to lower their efficiency by forgoing potions too?

    Essentially, the competitive guilds must maintain the use of potions in order to remain competitive.

    I agree that it is a concept associated with competition, but not necessarily between players or guilds. What you say in your comparison between guilds vying for leaderboard spots is undoubtedly true; I'm not arguing that point. But it goes beyond simple competition between guilds.

    There are a great many players and guilds out there who are not trying to place on the all-time leaderboards for any given trial. I'd wager that most raiders are competing for a sense of accomplishment, rather than bragging rights. For many players, simply getting through a veteran trial (any trial, doesn't matter which one) is what they seek and why they play. The need for potions exists in these circumstances too... it's not like potions are only useful for obtaining a leaderboard spot. They are, depending on role, class and build, largely necessary to just participate in an effective manner. Those that choose to forego potions in veteran and hardmode trials are giving something up to save that cost, and what they give up can (and in many cases does) mean the difference between beating a boss (or a glorified trash pull, looking at you vMoL) and a wipe.
    Edited by Autolycus on September 7, 2016 9:27PM
  • Daveheart
    Daveheart
    ✭✭✭✭
    Autolycus wrote: »
    Daveheart wrote: »
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Carbonised wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    It's a game, you should be able to only do what you like...

    "It's a game, so please have material nodes spawn AP as well, I shouldn't be forced to get AP from pvp since I don't like pvp'ing"

    "It's a game, so please have Dro-m'Athra motif and celestial motif drop from solo content. I don't like trials and I shouldn't be forced to do trials to get motifs"

    "It's a game, so remove BoP from IC sets and Orsinium sets. I don't like doing IC dungeons and Wrothgar dailies, so don't force me to do it if I don't want to"

    "It's a game, so remove BoP from Maelstrom weapons and Master weapons. I shouldn't have to do DSA and MA if I don't like it"

    "It's a game, so have all content in the game drop all rewards. I should be forced to solo/pvp/pve/trial if I don't want to, but I still want access to everything while doing 2 % of the content"

    etc etc etc

    Anyway, I believe I made my point clear in the first post in this thread, the aggression and somewhat immature reponses that followed from you three so-called 'hardcore top trial raiders' was a little funny, but this is quickly spiralling towards the inconstructive, so I'm out. Enjoy your raiding.

    1. you only need AP to buy siege-weapons and akaviri-motif and to get the sets from rewards of the worthy. You can sell your materials and then buy all of this. --> no problem
    2. You can do solo-content, sell the stuff from solo-content and buy the motifs --> no problem
    3. you can buy the triphies and open all the vaults in the nex patch to get those sets --> won't be a problem
    4. people are constantly asking for a better system especially regarding those maelstromeweapons (token system, master weapons through pvp-rewards...) --> needs to be solved
    5. as long as you get something in this 2% which can be exchanged for other things that sounds great isn't it?

    the game isn't perfect in it's current state, but it's ok (or even great) for endgame-raiding atm. Why do they change something which is good? People get sets from trials without doing them and raider can get some money to buy potions. Those who sell potions get money from the raiders and can (if they need) buy equipment from raiders. What's the problem with this?

    For me, the issue lies in the "need" for potions. Again, sympathetic and you guys should all be able to raid to your heart's content, but I don't see why content that requires you to chug expensive pots is a good idea.

    Change alchemy, change the need for pots, but ZoS typically doesn't go back on things. It may help to come.up with alternatives for a world.with BoP. Is BoP a good idea? No, not at all, but I'm not sure any number of player requests will change the course we're on.

    It's as much a competitive thing as anything else. Are there some guild who can complete veteran trials without potions? Sure. However, if trial guild A currently holds number 1 scores for 2/4 trials, guild B has the other two, and guild C is really close to breaking several of those scores but decides to run without potions, do you think guild C is likely to break into the lead for any of those trials? Do you think guilds A and B are likely to agree to lower their efficiency by forgoing potions too?

    Essentially, the competitive guilds must maintain the use of potions in order to remain competitive.

    I agree that it is a concept associated with competition, but not necessarily between players or guilds. What you say in your comparison between guilds vying for leaderboard spots is undoubtedly true; I'm not arguing that point. But it goes beyond simple competition between guilds.

    There are a great many players and guilds out there who are not trying to place on the all-time leaderboards for any given trial. I'd wager that most raiders are competing for a sense of accomplishment, rather than bragging rights. For many players, simply getting through a veteran trial (any trial, doesn't matter which one) is what they seek and why they play. The need for potions exists in these circumstances too... it's not like potions are only useful for obtaining a leaderboard spot. They are, depending on role, class and build, largely necessary to just participate in an effective manner. Those that choose to forego potions in veteran and hardmode trials are giving something up to save that cost, and what they give up can (and in many cases does) mean the difference between beating a boss (or a glorified trash pull, looking at you vMoL) and a wipe.

    I don't disagree and had most of what you wrote in my post as well but opted to just go with presenting one reason for the necessity of potions rather than diving further into the topic.
    Daggerfall Covenant (PC-NA)

    The Order of Mundus | Nightfighters
  • Dromede
    Dromede
    ✭✭✭✭
    I can get in board with boe to bop change (oversaturating market with gold jewelry, overall rapid power creep, gold depreciation, casual non-trial type player motivation to run trials, whatever else dev's reasoning behind it is), but you can't just take a fat chunk of the reward out and expect players who are used to running content get their allowance cut off and be ok with it.

    If you want an analogy - let's make AP and telvar stone purchased goodies untradeable and see how community reacts to that.

    We're not asking for a new carrot - we're asking that if an old carrot has to be taken away, substitute it with something of equal value.

    This is PTS week one, i have high hopes for this cause to be taken seriously.
    Skye Cloude - Sorc DPS, Master Crafter. Main, the bestest
    Lae Lenne - Templar Healer Trial grade.
    Dromede - Stamina Nightblade, she's a newb and doesn't know what she's doing
    V'oghatta - Stamplar pretending to be a tank
    Ulville Thonvella - aspiring Fire Mage, be careful around her fire sticks!
    Dromedaris - lost and not found. Named after a shoe, what else can you expect from her? A proper tank in her wildest dreams
    Swims-Naked - too pretty to grind, too silly to quest.
    Sun Flair - Dunmer Templar that can't spell for life. To bad she's too broke to afford a name change... Well, at least she's pretty...
  • Chori
    Chori
    ✭✭✭✭
    200 tripots for 44k? roflmao

    Better start looking at other guild traders or better get your own seller or better, farm your own flowers.

    You get stacks of 100 for 15k and there are also several other traders selling them for amounts around that. Not enough of a reason to justify or prove wrong the changes being made, this thread is bias.
    EP NA-PC - Invictus - Odem Mortis
    1. Stamina NB Cat - ChoriB'Good
    2. Magicka NB High Elf - Lîndara
    3. Stam Sorc High Elf - Lindara Moonlight
    4. Red Guard Stamina DK - Chorî
    5. Red Guard Stamina Templar - Choripaninikinnie
    6. Magplar High Elf - Vagitarian Sillonour
    Don't tell me you lag, I play with 200-300 ms all the time ^_^
  • Bosov
    Bosov
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So how will this work? Im not very interested in doing the trials since i just dont enjoy them that much but i like pvp and i like mag dk.

    Will these changes mean i need to run Hell Ra hard mode myself to get golden jewelry because i dont expect the gold jewelry to drop in Stonefalls with the rest of the sun set? I dont mind paying for it from people who like to run trials and make most of their eso gold with selling the stuff as long as the means i dont have to farm a trial 294848223838 times to get the drop i want. In also really unlucky with drops so if i cant buy the sun set i will never get it.
    Xbox One - EU - GT : Bosov
    PC - EU - @Bosov91

    ESO Highight :
    https://twitter.com/SlashLurk/status/895068339273310208

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