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Official Discussion Thread for "Matt Firor's Message from BE3"

  • Cogo
    Cogo
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    Champion points should really have been char specific and not account. I got zero interest playing my alts now.
    I'm almost tempted to buy another copy to at least get a new char I can develop.

    I like ESO a lot. But everything is way to easy to get now. For the first time since launch, I am starting to loose interest.
    Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
    Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
    Guildsite: The Nephilim

    "I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
    -Voltaire

    "My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"
  • Blackbird_V
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    I think it should be optional, so those who want to start over after maxing have the option to do so. Others like me for example aren't max (even if I were I'd wanna have all CP) would like to keep champion points acc specific.

    When making a new Character it should say: Carry over Champion Points: Yes No.
  • Cogo
    Cogo
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    BlackbirdV wrote: »
    I think it should be optional, so those who want to start over after maxing have the option to do so. Others like me for example aren't max (even if I were I'd wanna have all CP) would like to keep champion points acc specific.

    When making a new Character it should say: Carry over Champion Points: Yes No.

    I hear ye. How about you earn Champion points to your account, but once you use it on a char, it's "used"?
    That way you carry your points and still have progress.

    Reaching max points is = You win, the end. The magic with ESO for 2 years have been just that....you always have something you improve.
    Edited by Cogo on July 4, 2016 1:19AM
    Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
    Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
    Guildsite: The Nephilim

    "I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
    -Voltaire

    "My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"
  • Arato
    Arato
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    I'm wondering how this system will work going forward...right now the top end for enemies, gear, etc. are cp160. Going into any of the DLC zones, lower-levelled players are scaled up, true, but they still have a bit of a tough time considering they don't have the gear, skill points, attribute points, and especially champion points that someone doing it at max level would have.

    So what's going to happen in future updates after One Tamriel launches? Are they going to just keep the cap at cp 160? (Which means the game is just going to stagnate and die) Or are they going to raise this top end from time to time, which seems like a whole lot of work to do for the entire game world? And will make the difficulty for pre-50 characters worse and worse? For example...Imagine a new player, who has no cp, getting out of the tutorial area and getting dropped into Bleakrock, Khenarthi's, or Stros M'kai at level 3 when the enemies are all cp500 or whatever.

    While this system sounds really great at first glance, I am somewhat wary of what's going to happen with it in the future

    It won't stagnate from a lack of vertical """"""progression"""""" they introduce new sets of gear all the time with each new DLC and time to time, people find a set they like and change up their gear even without gaining more "levels" just because the set bonuses fit what they want better. They are raising the cap on how many CP you can spend too.

  • Arato
    Arato
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    Cogo wrote: »
    Champion points should really have been char specific and not account. I got zero interest playing my alts now.
    I'm almost tempted to buy another copy to at least get a new char I can develop.

    I like ESO a lot. But everything is way to easy to get now. For the first time since launch, I am starting to loose interest.

    I'm the opposite, I've retired my first main and switched to 2 different alts, 1 is gaining CP doing enough content to use up enlightenment every day and then I have a level 41 nightblade I'm leveling up. I wouldn't even bother, I'd have quit the game completely if I had to get 501 champion points on each individual character. I like that it's account based progression which makes it alt friendly.

    Making it character based just means an extra large barrier to being able to do group play. As it is people will kick you from groups for not having at least 300cp.
  • RubyTigress
    RubyTigress
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    I left this game many months ago because I really didn't need a WOW clone with an Elder Scrolls skin...

    I just heard about this news on MMO Reporter, and it is just possible I'll be coming back to the game as a result.

    So, there's that data point. :)
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    I left this game many months ago because I really didn't need a WOW clone with an Elder Scrolls skin...

    I just heard about this news on MMO Reporter, and it is just possible I'll be coming back to the game as a result.

    So, there's that data point. :)

    Forgive me for asking, as I played WoW for years and don't consider this to be a WoW clone with an Elder Scrolls skin:

    What exactly is it in that announcement that would possibly change the game for you, if you think it is a WoW clone?
    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    • "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    • "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    • PSA: If anyone finds the Update 35 Q&A, please return it to the community staff. Thank you.
    ><)))*>
  • mistermacintosh
    mistermacintosh
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    Add to the next video a Prosperous End-Game Items Deconstructed tally. It might rival the mud-crab death toll.
    Legalize Nirnroot!

    Mac User, NA Server (CP810+, PVE focused):
    Magicka Templar Ra the Everlasting (Level 50 - Main Character)
    Stamina Sorcerer Khazaka-ri (Level 50 - Crafter)
    Dragonknight Tank Skalda Flamewreath (Level 50)
    Pet Sorcerer Hellias Ocume (Level 50)
    Magicka Necromancer Socelon (Level 4)

    Templar Healer Mends-Through-Panic (Level 50)
    Stamina Nightblade Adanna-daro (Level 50)
    Stamina Warden Marely Sprigs (Level 50)
    Stamina Dragonknight Ursula Trollcalmer (Level 50)
    Stamina Necromancer Daengeval (Level 4)

    Stamina Templar Cornellus Graves (Level 50)
    Warden Healer Pays-For-Luxury (Level 50)
    Magicka Sorcerer Sophia Flash (Level 50)
    Magicka Dragonknight Cinvalo Aloavel (Level 50)
    Magicka Nightblade Esmerelda the Cruel (Level 50)
  • RubyTigress
    RubyTigress
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    Forgive me for asking, as I played WoW for years and don't consider this to be a WoW clone with an Elder Scrolls skin:

    What exactly is it in that announcement that would possibly change the game for you, if you think it is a WoW clone?

    You would have more of a comparison than I regarding WOW. I stopped paying a sub for this game, and eventually uninstalled it because every update started to be about forcing people to group, and making it difficult to do so if you were not on the exact level/quest leg as whoever you were grouping with. That seems to me very WoW like, based on the incessant lectures I get from WoW players about how casual soloist players are doing it ALL WRONG!!!

    The main point of interest for me in this change is that my playstyle tends to be solo/exploration type. I'll group occasionally, often on the fly if folks are in the area-which this would seem to support in at least it's earliest description.

    I'm not certain I'll come back in any case, but this development has caught my attn for another look see.



  • Corysia
    Corysia

    The main point of interest for me in this change is that my playstyle tends to be solo/exploration type. I'll group occasionally, often on the fly if folks are in the area-which this would seem to support in at least it's earliest description.



    This is also my play style. While I don't mind grouping, and would like to group, that can be far more frustrating than it's worth at times. Myself, I have to AFK a lot. I have too many things going on in Real Life to focus for hours. And the Quests are mostly geared for Solo play, anyway. There's one or two I can think of where you need to partner (not even actually group) in order to complete.

    As the explorer type, I think there's something really wrong with traveling way out in to Valenwood and coming across ancient ruins and finding it crawling with others. As I leveled my first 15-20 levels, that's what it was like, regardless of the chosen faction. After that 20 point, things started thinning out and it began to feel more like adventuring and not just moving from the City to the Suburbs.

    Yes, I want battle leveling. That makes it much more like the ES games where the world scales with you.
    Yes, I want to be able to travel anywhere.
    Yes, I want to be able to group with higher and lower level players.
    Yes, I want to group with friends, regardless of their faction, for PvE

    But...

    No, I don't want overcrowded zones. Cities should be crowded. The countryside shouldn't be.
    I want more instances. What if every delve was instanced to you or your group? Games as old as Anarchy Online had that from launch-date.
    I want solo content that can be completed by yourself or you can call a friend to come help (the way it is today).
    I want group content where you MUST group to complete (like Dungeons today)
    I want to feel like I'm on a journey like Louis and Clark (50+ zones today), not going over to a friends house and playing in their back yard. (what I'm afraid this is going to become)

    Massively Multiplayer shouldn't mean Massively Crowded
    Edited by Corysia on July 14, 2016 9:56PM
  • Holycannoli
    Holycannoli
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    I don't like this. I was never a fan of the way the world scaled to your level in the single player Elder Scrolls games and I don't want to see that here, any more than it already is. I can see it's purpose with some of the DLC but to make the entire game like that? no.

    ESO was designed similar to Dark Age Of Camelot - 3 factions at war with each other, with their own exclusive PvE content. That's the game I tested and enjoyed. That's the game I want. Albion wasn't running around in Hibernia. Midgard wasn't walking hunting trees in Lyonesse.

    I also don't play games - and especially MMORPGs - for the story. I play them for the progression. You level your character, you unlock new skills and abilities, earn better and better gear, access tougher and tougher areas etc. Imagine in Everquest if you could do any dungeon or PvE content you wanted because it scaled you to it's level. I wouldn't like that one bit.

    I also seriously dislike the idea of seeing enemy factions and not being able to attack them. That goes against the heart of the game - 3 factions at war.

    DAOC was a brilliant game and in many ways this was a successor to it. Now they're screwing it up and it smells of desperation.

    Level scaling is acceptable in certain limited instances, but a MMORPG shouldn't have it everywhere like ESO plans on doing. What the hell is even the point of leveling then?

    And what's this about a barbershop feature that will cost tokens instead of in-game currency? Or am I reading that wrong. If I'm not reading that wrong it will seriously affect my decision to keep this game on my drive.
    Edited by Holycannoli on July 20, 2016 5:07AM
  • BlueBlurChrome
    I don't like this. I was never a fan of the way the world scaled to your level in the single player Elder Scrolls games and I don't want to see that here, any more than it already is. I can see it's purpose with some of the DLC but to make the entire game like that? no.

    ESO was designed similar to Dark Age Of Camelot - 3 factions at war with each other, with their own exclusive PvE content. That's the game I tested and enjoyed. That's the game I want. Albion wasn't running around in Hibernia. Midgard wasn't walking hunting trees in Lyonesse.

    I also don't play games - and especially MMORPGs - for the story. I play them for the progression. You level your character, you unlock new skills and abilities, earn better and better gear, access tougher and tougher areas etc. Imagine in Everquest if you could do any dungeon or PvE content you wanted because it scaled you to it's level. I wouldn't like that one bit.

    I also seriously dislike the idea of seeing enemy factions and not being able to attack them. That goes against the heart of the game - 3 factions at war.

    DAOC was a brilliant game and in many ways this was a successor to it. Now they're screwing it up and it smells of desperation.

    Level scaling is acceptable in certain limited instances, but a MMORPG shouldn't have it everywhere like ESO plans on doing. What the hell is even the point of leveling then?

    And what's this about a barbershop feature that will cost tokens instead of in-game currency? Or am I reading that wrong. If I'm not reading that wrong it will seriously affect my decision to keep this game on my drive.

    Prepare to pack your bags and head out onto the highway, if this passes. My friend refuses to join the Aldmir Dominion sense I play that area the most, She won't spend a dime on getting Any Race in Any Alliance. This made it hard for me to enjoy ESO beacuse I am forced to have to start over to get the same amount of progress as my main character, That's twice the work and I will burn out faster this way, If two friends cannot agree to be in eather faction then this One Tamerial would be the solution, I hate PvP with a passion and have no interest in it. Private Casual dualing one on one in most MMOs are fine for me but that is it.

    Told Korissaa countless times that if she has some sort of a problem being part of the Aldmir Dominion even if she did have the Any Race in Any Alliance.

    Anyways, If this passes I can turn her into a vampire regardless of wasting my darn time finding new Werewolf and Vampire locations on a different faction area than the one I am faimilar with.
    "I'll never look back, I've got no regrets. Because time does not wait for me, I choose to go my own way"
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    I don't like this. I was never a fan of the way the world scaled to your level in the single player Elder Scrolls games and I don't want to see that here, any more than it already is. I can see it's purpose with some of the DLC but to make the entire game like that? no.

    ESO was designed similar to Dark Age Of Camelot - 3 factions at war with each other, with their own exclusive PvE content. That's the game I tested and enjoyed. That's the game I want. Albion wasn't running around in Hibernia. Midgard wasn't walking hunting trees in Lyonesse.

    I also don't play games - and especially MMORPGs - for the story. I play them for the progression. You level your character, you unlock new skills and abilities, earn better and better gear, access tougher and tougher areas etc. Imagine in Everquest if you could do any dungeon or PvE content you wanted because it scaled you to it's level. I wouldn't like that one bit.

    I also seriously dislike the idea of seeing enemy factions and not being able to attack them. That goes against the heart of the game - 3 factions at war.

    DAOC was a brilliant game and in many ways this was a successor to it. Now they're screwing it up and it smells of desperation.

    Level scaling is acceptable in certain limited instances, but a MMORPG shouldn't have it everywhere like ESO plans on doing. What the hell is even the point of leveling then?

    And what's this about a barbershop feature that will cost tokens instead of in-game currency? Or am I reading that wrong. If I'm not reading that wrong it will seriously affect my decision to keep this game on my drive.

    I am also not looking forward to the world scaled to me. (Check my signature) This is mostly because I can see a path to a great One Tamriel that would be a solid Elder Scrolls RPG move, but I expect that ZOS will be taking a more laid back MMO approach to it.

    Account-wide champion points that can be applied to all characters is simply too much power for low level characters, and level scaling amplifies this.
    • At ~350 CP, my Level 27 Sorcerer does more DPS with less effort than my Level 50 Sorcerer in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, and Gold Coast. This is due to different skill choices. Character level no longer matters, but what surprised me the most is that skill line level is also not as much of a deciding factor as I was thinking it would be.

    In a world where character level does not matter, will ZOS simply remove them? My guess is that they won't.

    I like wandering the world because it is so varied, but I really need something to make me want to go there and stay. Farming resources is something I do while I am "in town" because zones have different resources due to level. This allows me to collect a variety of materials while I am in the area for other reasons, most recently on Guild business, that can be used by other characters on my account. I can focus my time on what other characters want to do and spend less time farming.
    • I expect that ZOS will take the easy way out and simply scale all resources to the character, meaning that I will get a maximum of 2 different resources for a crafting skill line no matter where I go. This means that no matter where I am, the world will have exactly the resources I need for my character to do whatever I want to do. If I need Rubedite, I can just run a circuit in the zone I am in and every node will give me Rubedite. This is already the case for Potency runes.
    • When housing rolls out next year, this could be amplified. For max level characters, there may never be a reason to leave the "home zone". (see signature) It might be the game design equivalent of putting a big screen TV across from the "throne" and putting a microwave and refrigerator in the "throne room" so that you never have to stop gaming.

    ZOS has a huge game design gap that they sort of did not resolve when they got rid of Veteran Ranks, but they will have to deal with it in One Tamriel. This is what to do about crafted items and resource for all the Champion Ranks below 150. This is a "no man's zone" for a lot of players, and becomes an instant no man's zone for any player that manages to get to CP 160. Cadwell zones provide the materials for those who need stuff below top tier equipment, but this all goes away with One Tamriel.

    ZOS needs to provide a solution to how first time players get to CP 160 that includes the gear needed for that awkward area below CP 150. This is why I expect that they will scale resource nodes to the character. It is the easy way out of a number of problems.

    What they could do is scale the zones, not the resources, so that they drop materials in bands spread out across the zones in some manner of order. Using the Pact as an example...
    • Bleakrock: Tier 1 materials
    • Stonefalls: Tier 1 and 2 materials
    • Deshaan: Tier 3 and 4 materials
    • Shadowfen: Tier 5 and 6 materials
    • Eastmarch: Tier 7 and 8 materials
    • Rift: Tier 9 and 10 materials

    Naturally, exclusive DLC zones work against them if they need to add a Tier when they increase the Rank from 160.

    I don't really see any of this as desperation. What I see is that they see a need for some changes, which are driven by player comments and requests, but their ambition is throttled by a lack of bandwidth to actually do it. They do what they can, within the constraints of the resources and time, and call it "good enough". Maybe they intend to come back some day and continue work on it, but like everything else, that thought is also constrained by resources and time. There is no guarantee that they will ever get back to it. Call it a "fact of business life", but part of me thinks they should dream smaller things and do those dreams completely rather than dream big things, do half the dream, and then promise to get back to the rest later.

    The Elder Scrolls Online: One Tamriel
    A world of places to visit, no reason to leave home.

    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    • "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    • "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    • PSA: If anyone finds the Update 35 Q&A, please return it to the community staff. Thank you.
    ><)))*>
  • Holycannoli
    Holycannoli
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    I am also not looking forward to the world scaled to me. (Check my signature) This is mostly because I can see a path to a great One Tamriel that would be a solid Elder Scrolls RPG move, but I expect that ZOS will be taking a more laid back MMO approach to it.

    Account-wide champion points that can be applied to all characters is simply too much power for low level characters, and level scaling amplifies this.
    • At ~350 CP, my Level 27 Sorcerer does more DPS with less effort than my Level 50 Sorcerer in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, and Gold Coast. This is due to different skill choices. Character level no longer matters, but what surprised me the most is that skill line level is also not as much of a deciding factor as I was thinking it would be.

    In a world where character level does not matter, will ZOS simply remove them? My guess is that they won't.

    I like wandering the world because it is so varied, but I really need something to make me want to go there and stay. Farming resources is something I do while I am "in town" because zones have different resources due to level. This allows me to collect a variety of materials while I am in the area for other reasons, most recently on Guild business, that can be used by other characters on my account. I can focus my time on what other characters want to do and spend less time farming.
    • I expect that ZOS will take the easy way out and simply scale all resources to the character, meaning that I will get a maximum of 2 different resources for a crafting skill line no matter where I go. This means that no matter where I am, the world will have exactly the resources I need for my character to do whatever I want to do. If I need Rubedite, I can just run a circuit in the zone I am in and every node will give me Rubedite. This is already the case for Potency runes.
    • When housing rolls out next year, this could be amplified. For max level characters, there may never be a reason to leave the "home zone". (see signature) It might be the game design equivalent of putting a big screen TV across from the "throne" and putting a microwave and refrigerator in the "throne room" so that you never have to stop gaming.

    ZOS has a huge game design gap that they sort of did not resolve when they got rid of Veteran Ranks, but they will have to deal with it in One Tamriel. This is what to do about crafted items and resource for all the Champion Ranks below 150. This is a "no man's zone" for a lot of players, and becomes an instant no man's zone for any player that manages to get to CP 160. Cadwell zones provide the materials for those who need stuff below top tier equipment, but this all goes away with One Tamriel.

    ZOS needs to provide a solution to how first time players get to CP 160 that includes the gear needed for that awkward area below CP 150. This is why I expect that they will scale resource nodes to the character. It is the easy way out of a number of problems.

    What they could do is scale the zones, not the resources, so that they drop materials in bands spread out across the zones in some manner of order. Using the Pact as an example...
    • Bleakrock: Tier 1 materials
    • Stonefalls: Tier 1 and 2 materials
    • Deshaan: Tier 3 and 4 materials
    • Shadowfen: Tier 5 and 6 materials
    • Eastmarch: Tier 7 and 8 materials
    • Rift: Tier 9 and 10 materials

    Naturally, exclusive DLC zones work against them if they need to add a Tier when they increase the Rank from 160.

    I don't really see any of this as desperation. What I see is that they see a need for some changes, which are driven by player comments and requests, but their ambition is throttled by a lack of bandwidth to actually do it. They do what they can, within the constraints of the resources and time, and call it "good enough". Maybe they intend to come back some day and continue work on it, but like everything else, that thought is also constrained by resources and time. There is no guarantee that they will ever get back to it. Call it a "fact of business life", but part of me thinks they should dream smaller things and do those dreams completely rather than dream big things, do half the dream, and then promise to get back to the rest later.

    The Elder Scrolls Online: One Tamriel
    A world of places to visit, no reason to leave home.

    You have very good points. I understand that a One Tamriel world could actually be the best thing ever, but honestly I'd prefer if they kept the zone levels like they are now and simply let us travel anywhere we want, with one caveat - do NOT go near enemy alliance guards!

    I mean yeah, would a DC character ever have to leave Glenumbra? Will harvest nodes scale to our character level, or maybe skill level? (they should NOT scale in my opinion. Give us reasons to travel to different zones)

    That's what I mean when I say the game was designed similar to Dark Age Of Camelot. It's not designed for a One Tamriel world, certainly not if they plan on scaling us to a zone's level. It was designed for 3 factions to have their own unique PvE content. To go back on that design now and try to change it with bandaid fixes like this will mess things up more than fix them, unless you like the idea of level scaling.

    If they open the entire world but leave zone levels and level scaling out of it I think it would work better. Zone/area levels are a staple of RPGs. You can't just go trouncing off to the most dangerous area in a game at level 5 and expect to survive. It's been like that for over 30 years, it's a tried and true formula.

    It's the level scaling more than anything else that bothers me. No, I don't like the fact that people can go skipping through enemy alliance zones without a care in the world but that's not as bad as level scaling. May as well remove levels altogether.

    Again, I'll go back to classic Everquest (who here has ever played it?). In that game there are multiple starter zones for new characters, multiple medium level zones for leveling and a few high level zones. You can start a level 1 troll or ogre in the swamp or jungle but move him to the dark elf starting area if you want. You can move a new high elf all the way across the world to Qeynos and start there. But you most certainly do NOT scale to the zone you're in, so the trek to from Gfay to Qeynos can get perilous around Kithicor or through East Karana, or Feerrott to Nektulos can be dangerous when you run through Oasis or East Commons with the Freeport guards looking to kill evil races. You also don't just move from your starting zone to Lower Guk, I mean that's ludicrous to even think about.

    Level scaling would have made that game incredibly lame, and I fear it will do the same here. Level scaling is only good in limited instances.
    Edited by Holycannoli on July 20, 2016 6:27PM
  • Corysia
    Corysia
    Again, I'll go back to classic Everquest (who here has ever played it?). In that game there are multiple starter zones for new characters, multiple medium level zones for leveling and a few high level zones. You can start a level 1 troll or ogre in the swamp or jungle but move him to the dark elf starting area if you want. You can move a new high elf all the way across the world to Qeynos and start there. But you most certainly do NOT scale to the zone you're in, so the trek to from Gfay to Qeynos can get perilous around Kithicor or through East Karana, or Feerrott to Nektulos can be dangerous when you run through Oasis or East Commons with the Freeport guards looking to kill evil races. You also don't just move from your starting zone to Lower Guk, I mean that's ludicrous to even think about.

    Level scaling would have made that game incredibly lame, and I fear it will do the same here. Level scaling is only good in limited instances.

    Oh I did! Day 1. Naked newbie runs from Gfay to Qeynos! SOW, PLZ!!

    Very good points about the level scaling. I've never really liked 'newbie land' and think Anarchy Online did a good job with that one with a cordoned off area. That's another 3-faction world where you can technically go anywhere, but Omni had better not run in to Clan guards and vice-versa. But players should be able to get in way over their heads. In AO, however, and EQ, you can kill the guards and players could duel each other. ESO has a lot going for it, but it missed out on some basic MMO features that its great-great-grandpappy's MMOs had.
  • Swindy
    Swindy
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    Although I totally understand the commercial realism of why, I'm utterly opposed to battle leveling, and account based non-Vet CP.
    Point of proof:
    I've played almost 4,000 hours on XBox alone, plus Mac and pre-release before that (accidentally deleted my character & bank transfer though...noob mistake) and when I build a new toon, I get my CP at level 3, not Vet 3, just 3.
    That makes every new toon omnipotent in every Pve (solo) instance with a set of crafted gear at his/her level. So you set off looking for higher level content to challenge said toon. Now there won't be any.

    At level 12, my (now semi-retired) sorc in purple had harder frags with higher magicka pool than he does at CP 501 in gold. That's just wrong.
    Then he was off to *insert any DLC here* and notwithstanding DLC world bosses (beyond my modest skills to solo so far), again hit harder with higher stats at low sub Vet than at Vet 501.
    That makes the RPG building of a toon redundant, and instead it becomes a skill point/skyshard smash.
    It makes Pvp much easier than it should be for a sub Vet level toon, negating a lot of the hours many players have "ground" to build their toons in time gone past when it took real weeks and months to max out a toon.
    Don't get me wrong, good players still wipe you off of their boots, skill is still skill.

    Now I'm not even going to have higher level areas to adventure in to look for challenges whilst leveling toons...sigh.
    They will all level to V150, as will my stats, plus CP points if I allocate them, and yes I often quest in IC in the CP free server for the challenge...die sometimes, but that's the point of an NPC fight isn't it?

    So...I leveled my Templar CP-free for the challenge, which was harder work with stronger dolmens and bosses post TG & DB, but now ZOS are going to ruin that idea as I'll still always be battle leveled. This effectively negates leveling in its entirety.
    You should always be able to go somewhere you're too weak to go (group delves/bosses & VMA solo as examples), and die relentlessly trying to achieve something you shouldn't be yet able to achieve. If there's no high bar set...where's the goals?

    Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of finally getting to quest on my Blue alongside my Red friends, and the opportunities to meet Yellow players I've not yet met (not leveled a Yellow toon yet).
    But it mostly smells of commercialism pandering to new players wanting to be OP on day 2...
    II Swindy II

    Australian on Xbox NA (ex EU)
  • Elsonso
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    Swindy wrote: »
    Now I'm not even going to have higher level areas to adventure in to look for challenges whilst leveling toons...sigh.
    They will all level to V150, as will my stats, plus CP points if I allocate them, and yes I often quest in IC in the CP free server for the challenge...die sometimes, but that's the point of an NPC fight isn't it?

    Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of finally getting to quest on my Blue alongside my Red friends, and the opportunities to meet Yellow players I've not yet met (not leveled a Yellow toon yet).

    Yeah, this is the core of my concern and why I expect that One Tamriel will be one big boring game with no challenge for players like me.

    But... they have not released the details about One Tamriel. While it is entirely predictable as to how they will do things, they might just surprise me. If they don't, there probably won't be enough to keep me around.
    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    • "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    • "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    • PSA: If anyone finds the Update 35 Q&A, please return it to the community staff. Thank you.
    ><)))*>
  • Cogo
    Cogo
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    I don't like this. I was never a fan of the way the world scaled to your level in the single player Elder Scrolls games and I don't want to see that here, any more than it already is. I can see it's purpose with some of the DLC but to make the entire game like that? no.

    ESO was designed similar to Dark Age Of Camelot - 3 factions at war with each other, with their own exclusive PvE content. That's the game I tested and enjoyed. That's the game I want. Albion wasn't running around in Hibernia. Midgard wasn't walking hunting trees in Lyonesse.

    I also don't play games - and especially MMORPGs - for the story. I play them for the progression. You level your character, you unlock new skills and abilities, earn better and better gear, access tougher and tougher areas etc. Imagine in Everquest if you could do any dungeon or PvE content you wanted because it scaled you to it's level. I wouldn't like that one bit.

    I also seriously dislike the idea of seeing enemy factions and not being able to attack them. That goes against the heart of the game - 3 factions at war.

    DAOC was a brilliant game and in many ways this was a successor to it. Now they're screwing it up and it smells of desperation.

    Level scaling is acceptable in certain limited instances, but a MMORPG shouldn't have it everywhere like ESO plans on doing. What the hell is even the point of leveling then?

    And what's this about a barbershop feature that will cost tokens instead of in-game currency? Or am I reading that wrong. If I'm not reading that wrong it will seriously affect my decision to keep this game on my drive.

    I am also not looking forward to the world scaled to me. (Check my signature) This is mostly because I can see a path to a great One Tamriel that would be a solid Elder Scrolls RPG move, but I expect that ZOS will be taking a more laid back MMO approach to it.

    Account-wide champion points that can be applied to all characters is simply too much power for low level characters, and level scaling amplifies this.
    • At ~350 CP, my Level 27 Sorcerer does more DPS with less effort than my Level 50 Sorcerer in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, and Gold Coast. This is due to different skill choices. Character level no longer matters, but what surprised me the most is that skill line level is also not as much of a deciding factor as I was thinking it would be.

    In a world where character level does not matter, will ZOS simply remove them? My guess is that they won't.

    I like wandering the world because it is so varied, but I really need something to make me want to go there and stay. Farming resources is something I do while I am "in town" because zones have different resources due to level. This allows me to collect a variety of materials while I am in the area for other reasons, most recently on Guild business, that can be used by other characters on my account. I can focus my time on what other characters want to do and spend less time farming.

    • I expect that ZOS will take the easy way out and simply scale all resources to the character, meaning that I will get a maximum of 2 different resources for a crafting skill line no matter where I go. This means that no matter where I am, the world will have exactly the resources I need for my character to do whatever I want to do. If I need Rubedite, I can just run a circuit in the zone I am in and every node will give me Rubedite. This is already the case for Potency runes.
    • When housing rolls out next year, this could be amplified. For max level characters, there may never be a reason to leave the "home zone". (see signature) It might be the game design equivalent of putting a big screen TV across from the "throne" and putting a microwave and refrigerator in the "throne room" so that you never have to stop gaming.

    ZOS has a huge game design gap that they sort of did not resolve when they got rid of Veteran Ranks, but they will have to deal with it in One Tamriel. This is what to do about crafted items and resource for all the Champion Ranks below 150. This is a "no man's zone" for a lot of players, and becomes an instant no man's zone for any player that manages to get to CP 160. Cadwell zones provide the materials for those who need stuff below top tier equipment, but this all goes away with One Tamriel.

    ZOS needs to provide a solution to how first time players get to CP 160 that includes the gear needed for that awkward area below CP 150. This is why I expect that they will scale resource nodes to the character. It is the easy way out of a number of problems.

    What they could do is scale the zones, not the resources, so that they drop materials in bands spread out across the zones in some manner of order. Using the Pact as an example...
    • Bleakrock: Tier 1 materials
    • Stonefalls: Tier 1 and 2 materials
    • Deshaan: Tier 3 and 4 materials
    • Shadowfen: Tier 5 and 6 materials
    • Eastmarch: Tier 7 and 8 materials
    • Rift: Tier 9 and 10 materials

    Naturally, exclusive DLC zones work against them if they need to add a Tier when they increase the Rank from 160.

    I don't really see any of this as desperation. What I see is that they see a need for some changes, which are driven by player comments and requests, but their ambition is throttled by a lack of bandwidth to actually do it. They do what they can, within the constraints of the resources and time, and call it "good enough". Maybe they intend to come back some day and continue work on it, but like everything else, that thought is also constrained by resources and time. There is no guarantee that they will ever get back to it. Call it a "fact of business life", but part of me thinks they should dream smaller things and do those dreams completely rather than dream big things, do half the dream, and then promise to get back to the rest later.

    The Elder Scrolls Online: One Tamriel
    A world of places to visit, no reason to leave home.

    What a fantastic post! I urge everyone to read the whole thing!

    I highlighted a few parts where I think you hit the nail!

    ESO is great, but the huge lack of "dangerous" levels and content may attract players in the short term, but never keep them.
    Vet ranks gave levels and ranks meaning and you progressed almost all the time and could upgrade in many different ways.
    Now its only some level gear and then CP 160 everything.

    To make CP char based and not account based would bring back the reason to play alts again. But there needs to be "Level" areas from CP160 and up. I have 600CP and I WANT areas that are to hard for me alone.

    The only zone in game that has challenging "content" is Cyrodiil and Imp city. Why? Because players skills have no level, are unpredictable and no day are the same. My top level and gear don't win battles for me....
    Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
    Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
    Guildsite: The Nephilim

    "I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
    -Voltaire

    "My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"
  • Captain8504
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    OK so how does this affect DLC? Do we still need to purchase them in order to access the content or are they just dumping the DLC stuff, making it free and telling everyone who purchased it .... "Oh Well These Things Happen"....

    That's what happens with guild wars 2.. They put base game in with expansion and refunded people money that bought base game a few months up til the release of expansion.
  • Elsonso
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    OK so how does this affect DLC? Do we still need to purchase them in order to access the content or are they just dumping the DLC stuff, making it free and telling everyone who purchased it .... "Oh Well These Things Happen"....

    That's what happens with guild wars 2.. They put base game in with expansion and refunded people money that bought base game a few months up til the release of expansion.

    This is what Bethesda Softworks will do with ESO Gold, minus the refunds. If you buy the Tamriel Unlimited Standard Edition the day before Gold comes out, bummer.
    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    • "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    • "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    • PSA: If anyone finds the Update 35 Q&A, please return it to the community staff. Thank you.
    ><)))*>
  • sentientomega
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    I don't care for game challenge myself, real life I find to be enough of one.

    And there's a very simple solution to those complaining about OP lowbies, do NOT assign ANY CPs to them if it really matters that much to you.

    Lots of people want the game to be easy for them, and more than a few want the opposite.

    And so I say, player-affecting difficulty slider, the challenge being its own reward for those who want it so much, and with no difference in awards across difficulty. As I said, based on said complaints, the challenge would be its own reward for those players demanding colossal risks of self-destruction, and such players should be able to do that if they want.

    We also don't know what they'll do with the mats of various tiers, so there's no reason to assume they absolutely will only leave us with two tiers of mats to gather, at best. And even if they do that, surely they'd give us a way to obtain the other mats that doesn't involve guild stores.
    Edited by sentientomega on July 26, 2016 9:37AM
  • Jade1986
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    This is simply an amazing change. I was getting really tired of having to make new characters justto group.
  • keto3000
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    Rev Rielle wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    Rev Rielle wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

    Can you explain these two to me?
    [*]You will be able to explore the entire world in any sequence you wish - just walk across the world and you will always find appropriately leveled content.
    [*]We are dropping all PvE Alliance restrictions. You will be free to explore of all Tamriel, including other Alliances. It is up to you how you want to role-play your character while doing this. “Silver" and “gold" versions of zones will be replaced by Cadwell quest storylines that you can do in any order you wish.
    -> Question
    Does this mean that we can now communicate and or be part of the other factions zone? Say I'm DC and I want to see EP area with EP players, are we still separated? Or are we combine?(Ex: DC hanging with EP in EP town)
    I can answer this one: From what we've been told, yes. For PvE, basically we will all be as one. We will be limited by where we go and whom we group/play with only by ourselves. If we want to group with Pact and Dominion as a Daggerfall alliance character for example, we will be able to: any alliance, any level.
    Casterial wrote: »
    [*]Alliance restrictions will still be enforced in all PvP areas, of course. One Tamriel will not affect the PvP systems in Cyrodiil.

    ->Question
    Will there eventually be open world pvp areas, and or will we be able to attack certain EP/DC/AD areas with players defending, like open-world?
    Thank you, Jessica.
    Cast


    Isn't that what Cyrodiil is already?
    @Rev Rielle
    Cyrodiil isn't really an open-world. Its more or so one big map, with PVP/PVE objectives. Its large-scale and usually very boring, I like the entire "Oh another faction member!"(in a certain area) and kill them with some penalty to me(Red name, bounty, etc)
    It'd also be neat if they did it perfectly and maybe added flagging and able to kill your own faction in PVE zones(that have PVP open)

    I think ESO should if not thinking of it, add some form of open-world PVP and they should consider objective small-scale PVP battles, arena, duels, and even better - a bounty open world system(PVP related[scrapped before])

    @Casterial
    Yes, you're right. Maybe they will. I was really hoping to see something loosely like this with the justice system. Who knows, perhaps they will revisit their initial plans with regards to that and expanding it to included opposing alliance players in some way. It would be very interesting.

    For me, personally, as a fairly new gamer, I prefer a game that has faction pride built in. PvP gets boring when ppl have multiple faction toons and simply switch when the going gets tough for the faction they are currently playing. They simply log onto their other faction toon(s). No sense of team (faction pride work hard to grow the team and help mentor junior faction players. All my toons are AD... my faction, win or lose I stay loyal. I am noticing many new games that are coming out this year are moving in that direction, e.g. Crowfall, Camelot Unchained, etc. I hope that ZOS evaluates our game ( to which I am 100% committed) so that we can move in that direction as well.
    Just my humble opinion. :)
    “The point of power is always in the present moment.”

    ― Louise L. Hay
  • Merlin13KAGL
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    Hopefully they make the "Battle Leveling" go both ways.

    There's a ton of stuff I've never engaged in with my max level character, as there were no XP's to be had, merely wear to gear (or a complete steamroll to all NPC's). Neither is interesting.

    Would help breathe a little more life back into the content that's already there, especially since it's all but impossible not to be overleveled drastically on the way up.
    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on August 3, 2016 2:37PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • sentientomega
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    I think that comes with it:
    In general, higher level players will be the same “level" as lower level players, but they will have far more tools in their arsenal: better gear, more abilities, and of course more Champion points.

    So it seems that it will be something like Swtor's level sync, only both ways here.
  • WynonaStealth
    WynonaStealth
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    This is gonna be an EXCELLENT update. You all should be very happy. I've been playing since early access and words can't describe how bad I have wanted to do delves or what ever in previous zones that I loved. NOW I CAN. I have Real friends I play with. We made new toons the other day to play together, WE STILL haven't played together and he's in the 40's already! Now we won't have a problem. Plus I can play on my main when we do play together, perfect. For all those worried about too many people causing frame drop, the devs already clarified that there WILL be instances, not EVERYONE in the zone is gonna be in the same instance. That's not even possible anyway. Some towns are under your alliances control only AFTER you secure it
  • gard
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    You guys act like there aren't already zone instances with player caps. This won't affect performance.

    Obviously you've never been to Cyrodiil.
    My wife complains that I never listen to her. (Or something like that.)
    -- I'm a one man smurf zerg!

    My ESO addons:
    Midnight - Find out when midnight is so that you can check for ww/vamp spawn.
    Goto - Adds a tab to the map pane allowing you to teleport to a friend, guildmate, or groupmate for free.
  • gard
    gard
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    DaveMoeDee wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    Gotta love PR. "I just got off the stage at Bethesda's E3 Showcase" even though the article was written well in advance (and this forum post, too--anyone else notice, from the date and the thread ID, that this was created days ago and was merely hidden until now?).

    Anyway, my first concern is that the reason people don't group up isn't because of level/faction restrictions. It's because there is no reason to group up, unless you're doing the 4-man dungeons or 12-man trials. Everything is so ridiculously easy that even a barely competent player will breeze through zone content solo with ease. What exactly would be the point of grouping up? They need to revamp the difficulty and give people an incentive to group up.

    Second, I'd be very, very concerned about performance. Places like Wayrest, Mournhold, or Rawl during prime time are very crowded for DC, EP, and AD players respectively, and there's a very noticeable impact on performance (e.g., lags in bar swapping that I wouldn't notice elsewhere). Now instead of there being three separate Rawls that people funnel into, there will be just one.

    Third, I liked that the silver and gold zones were relatively quiet. If I wanted to farm mats, explore, etc., I prefer doing it in an empty zone, not one that's been trampled all over by other people.

    You really missed the point of grouping up.

    There are players who come to the game wanting to play with a player who recruited them. The problem is that the inviter's character is at a level such that they can't group up. Similarly, there are friends who want to play together but want to play classes in different factions.

    They don't need to add incentives for grouping up. The feature is there for people who already want to do it. There have been plenty of threads about this in the forum in the past if you were paying attention.

    Group up to do what? Many of the boss fights are solo only, as are the majority of the main quests.

    My wife complains that I never listen to her. (Or something like that.)
    -- I'm a one man smurf zerg!

    My ESO addons:
    Midnight - Find out when midnight is so that you can check for ww/vamp spawn.
    Goto - Adds a tab to the map pane allowing you to teleport to a friend, guildmate, or groupmate for free.
  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    gard wrote: »
    You guys act like there aren't already zone instances with player caps. This won't affect performance.
    Obviously you've never been to Cyrodiil.
    Cyrodiil doesn't have the dynamically-generated zone instances that PvE has.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
    Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp
  • Corysia
    Corysia
    gard wrote: »
    You guys act like there aren't already zone instances with player caps. This won't affect performance.

    Obviously you've never been to Cyrodiil.

    It's not even just Cyrodiil. I was in Auridon at the blacksmithing station and crashed 5 times in a row because of SO MANY PLAYERS crowding around the anvil. The moment I tried to turn and move, the game locked up. I had to wait until everyone and their brother and two sisters weren't crushing together to decon.
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