A trader for people outside guilds

Tandor · July 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I dont see a problem, sorry.
You can be the loneliest of lonely wolves and still be in trading guild, the only "social" thing that is actually required is asking for invite. I'm in 2 big trading guilds, and no one cares if I'm talking to other guild members or not, the only thing that matters is selling items.
If you're afraid of seeing guild chat and talking to people, just use "offline mode" so no one can whisper you and hide chat (or, if you still want to see /z chat, just make another tab).

Most people who choose not to join a trading guild don't make that decision through any kind of fear or a desire for social isolation, they make it because they either fail to have enough surplus stuff to justify guild membership or else are opposed to the principle of such a core part of the game being locked behind artificial barriers such as guild membership. Some, of course, will belong to guilds that don't get regular trading spots.In any of those circumstances they just sell any surplus stuff to NPC merchants and get on with the rest of the game.

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

Okay can we move past the point where we keep getting posts like " you can be in a guild and just not interact with it "? I know that this is possible, and works for some ok? Good, now with that settled, can we actually try and focus on the topic that's up for discussion?

LadyNalcarya · July 2016

Tandor wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I dont see a problem, sorry.
You can be the loneliest of lonely wolves and still be in trading guild, the only "social" thing that is actually required is asking for invite. I'm in 2 big trading guilds, and no one cares if I'm talking to other guild members or not, the only thing that matters is selling items.
If you're afraid of seeing guild chat and talking to people, just use "offline mode" so no one can whisper you and hide chat (or, if you still want to see /z chat, just make another tab).

Most people who choose not to join a trading guild don't make that decision through any kind of fear or a desire for social isolation, they make it because they either fail to have enough surplus stuff to justify guild membership or else are opposed to the principle of such a core part of the game being locked behind artificial barriers such as guild membership. Some, of course, will belong to guilds that don't get regular trading spots.In any of those circumstances they just sell any surplus stuff to NPC merchants and get on with the rest of the game.

I wouldnt say its "artificial barrier". You can say that an auction house npc would be a "barrier" too...
And actually, guild trader system serves a very important role - its a gold sink.
I'm not saying its perfect, but just removing it will just make the price inflation even stronger.
Speaking of people who fail to sell anything in guild stores... Even with auction house system, they wont be able to sell vendor trash items and other useless stuff, and tempers/flowers/motifs/other highly demanded items can be as well just sold in /z chat.
I still cant see a problem here.
P.S. Also, you cant speak for most of people... Theyre not even on forums.

dalodir · July 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I dont see a problem, sorry.
You can be the loneliest of lonely wolves and still be in trading guild, the only "social" thing that is actually required is asking for invite. I'm in 2 big trading guilds, and no one cares if I'm talking to other guild members or not, the only thing that matters is selling items.
If you're afraid of seeing guild chat and talking to people, just use "offline mode" so no one can whisper you and hide chat (or, if you still want to see /z chat, just make another tab).

Most people who choose not to join a trading guild don't make that decision through any kind of fear or a desire for social isolation, they make it because they either fail to have enough surplus stuff to justify guild membership or else are opposed to the principle of such a core part of the game being locked behind artificial barriers such as guild membership. Some, of course, will belong to guilds that don't get regular trading spots.In any of those circumstances they just sell any surplus stuff to NPC merchants and get on with the rest of the game.

I wouldnt say its "artificial barrier". You can say that an auction house npc would be a "barrier" too...
And actually, guild trader system serves a very important role - its a gold sink.
I'm not saying its perfect, but just removing it will just make the price inflation even stronger.
Speaking of people who fail to sell anything in guild stores... Even with auction house system, they wont be able to sell vendor trash items and other useless stuff, and tempers/flowers/motifs/other highly demanded items can be as well just sold in /z chat.
I still cant see a problem here.

Console pkayers dont have /z chat yet am afraid. Although it will be another means to sell in the future. Not ideal but its an option.

Vendor trash is vendor trash i would only put items for sale thats worth it.

I get what your saying about it being a gold sink. But my gut feel is this is not the case. Its making the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

@KoshkaMurka, I think you fail to see the point too

I have never spoken as to remove stuff at all.. Neither to remove the "tax" for selling.. The npc merchants obviously needs to be paid a tax too since we are buying room at his stand.. He's supposed to act just like a guild merchant, gold sink and all

.. It's an outstretched hand for people unwilling to be in a guild, but at the same time a penalty, since you won't have the same amount of slots as you would in a guilds

Even with auction house system, they wont be able to sell vendor trash items and other useless stuff, and tempers/flowers/motifs/other highly demanded items can be as well just sold in /z chat.

Not sure I understand this part

1: Can we please not call this an AH system, since it's not, and people will get negative if they think it is
2: What is it you think they won't be able to sell? Vendor trash can always be sold to vendors, and the merchant is to free up general chat from the often ocuring WTS shouts

LadyNalcarya · July 2016

dalodir wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I dont see a problem, sorry.
You can be the loneliest of lonely wolves and still be in trading guild, the only "social" thing that is actually required is asking for invite. I'm in 2 big trading guilds, and no one cares if I'm talking to other guild members or not, the only thing that matters is selling items.
If you're afraid of seeing guild chat and talking to people, just use "offline mode" so no one can whisper you and hide chat (or, if you still want to see /z chat, just make another tab).

Most people who choose not to join a trading guild don't make that decision through any kind of fear or a desire for social isolation, they make it because they either fail to have enough surplus stuff to justify guild membership or else are opposed to the principle of such a core part of the game being locked behind artificial barriers such as guild membership. Some, of course, will belong to guilds that don't get regular trading spots.In any of those circumstances they just sell any surplus stuff to NPC merchants and get on with the rest of the game.

I wouldnt say its "artificial barrier". You can say that an auction house npc would be a "barrier" too...
And actually, guild trader system serves a very important role - its a gold sink.
I'm not saying its perfect, but just removing it will just make the price inflation even stronger.
Speaking of people who fail to sell anything in guild stores... Even with auction house system, they wont be able to sell vendor trash items and other useless stuff, and tempers/flowers/motifs/other highly demanded items can be as well just sold in /z chat.
I still cant see a problem here.

Console pkayers dont have /z chat yet am afraid. Although it will be another means to sell in the future. Not ideal but its an option.

Vendor trash is vendor trash i would only put items for sale thats worth it.

I get what your saying about it being a gold sink. But my gut feel is this is not the case. Its makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Text chat comes to consoles in the next update I think.

It would make rich richer and poor poorer if said rich people could actually control all supplies. But that's not the case. Even if someone buys every item of specific kind, they're still unable to do anything with people farming those items or getting gold through different game activities.
On the other hand, sometimes guild traders offer items at very low price.

Undercutting is a thing as well... Its not a real market, but the basic supply/demand concept applies to it as well.

LadyNalcarya · July 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

@KoshkaMurka, I think you fail to see the point too I have never spoken as to remove stuff at all.. Neither to remove the "tax" for selling.. The npc merchants obviously needs to be paid a tax too since we are buying room at his stand.. He's supposed to act just like a guild merchant, gold sink and all .. It's an outstretched hand for people unwilling to be in a guild, but at the same time a penalty, since you won't have the same amount of slots as you would in a guilds

Even with auction house system, they wont be able to sell vendor trash items and other useless stuff, and tempers/flowers/motifs/other highly demanded items can be as well just sold in /z chat.

Not sure I understand this part
1: Can we please not call this an AH system, since it's not, and people will get negative if they think it is
2: What is it you think they won't be able to sell? Vendor trash can always be sold to vendors, and the merchant is to free up general chat from the often ocuring WTS shouts

I just dont see why people would need something with a penalty, when they can get the same thing without penalty, by joining a guild. Its like that smuggler assistant which is situational at best...
And I see a lot of vendor trash in guild stores, and generally overpriced items with 1-5 days left, which means that no one was interested in buying them.

Tipsy · July 2016

Ref wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNIpwhR66o

Like this, could open up many RP opportunities and socializing.

i don't think interacting with an npc really counts as socializing

If there would be stalls like these,i'd prefer them to only be allowed in certain areas like the market place.
For socializing purposes,it might be better to extend the idea.
so that players can offer themselves as mercenary in the tavern for dungeons,..
the ablities for players to offer certain expertis to others ,linked to a specific area that hasthe right context for it.

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

I just dont see why people would need something with a penalty, when they can get the same thing without penalty, by joining a guild.

Very simply

it's a system so both parties, guildies and non guildies, can be happy and do their trading

The reason for the penalty, aka the limited sale slots, is that it would be highly unlikely that a wandering adventurer had the same connections as a well established merchant.. A merchant has built up a ring of contacts and customers, while the adventurer just roams around and sell stuff when he can.. Hence you have more slots and even an extra stall from the guild trader, IF you are in a guild.. That way you can join a guild if you are more serious about selling or just want to group up with other people, but you also have options if such a lifestyle is not what suits you

dalodir · July 2016

@KoshkaMurka
I am looking forward to text chat :-) its one of those things we will look back on and laugh do you remember the days when...

The solution the op has is targeting a set of people who do not use the current trading system. (They have their reasons) It will increaase supply, which should reduce the prices overall and allow people to get involved. The cost of this is a high commision.

Supply is being throttled because of the player base not getting involved.

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

The solution is targeting a set of people who do not use the current trading system. (They have their reasons) It will increaase supply, which should reduce the prices overall and allow people to get involved. The cost of this is a high commision.

Pretty well worded

ty

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

C0wrex wrote: »

Sounds like a really good idea we could all use!

no we can't all use it. people in any kind of guild can't use it according to op.

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

An auction house thread by any other name is still an auction house thread.

They haven't done anything on it in 2 years because they already use guilds so another thread masquerading as a different idea (whether intentional or unintentional) will not make a difference.

You can stick your AH where the sun don't shine.. This is in NO WAY, a request for a global, or any other kind of auction.. It's a merchant, in no way different from those already in the game.. You purchase a ware, you don't bid on it..

the flow of wares, in your model, is not player to player its player to npc and (maybe, if it sell), npc to player. and that is not, by any generally accepted definition of the word, socializing.

So, pretty much like a guild, without being in one

no.... with the guild you have the option of socializing.

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

@jedtb16_ESO Yeah, the OPTION

but what would be wrong with being able to sell, yet having the option to do it without socializing?

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

C0wrex wrote: »

Sounds like a really good idea we could all use!

no we can't all use it. people in any kind of guild can't use it according to op.

It was suggested with the intent of letting people outside guilds do some trading

If the system can be made to work, I see no reason as to not let everyone use it.. I just started out as I did, so that the guilds would not be completely emptied

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

@KoshkaMurka, I think you fail to see the point too I have never spoken as to remove stuff at all.. Neither to remove the "tax" for selling.. The npc merchants obviously needs to be paid a tax too since we are buying room at his stand.. He's supposed to act just like a guild merchant, gold sink and all .. It's an outstretched hand for people unwilling to be in a guild, but at the same time a penalty, since you won't have the same amount of slots as you would in a guilds

Even with auction house system, they wont be able to sell vendor trash items and other useless stuff, and tempers/flowers/motifs/other highly demanded items can be as well just sold in /z chat.

Not sure I understand this part
1: Can we please not call this an AH system, since it's not, and people will get negative if they think it is
2: What is it you think they won't be able to sell? Vendor trash can always be sold to vendors, and the merchant is to free up general chat from the often ocuring WTS shouts

call it what you like. what it is is ah-lite. walks like a duck etc.

what do you think zone chat is for? player communication is my take on it. that involves people looking for all kinds of things - group members, guilds, guild members, help with quests, things to buy and things to sell - this is not intended to be an exhaustive list

it works fine.

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

Ok now we really need to kill this AH stuff.. With an AH, you place a bid on items, sometimes being allowed to outbid others.. This is a merchant, aka fixed prices.. Secondly, it's regional, removing that global crap..

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

And yes, it CAN be done in zone chat, but it can also be made to work in a better way.. I detest the fact that someone at the northern end of Glenumbra can somehow still hear what the person in the south wants to sell.. That system can be improved upon

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

@jedtb16_ESO Yeah, the OPTION but what would be wrong with being able to sell, yet having the option to do it without socializing?

you already have that

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

Again, try and move past shouting WTS in the chat please.. If I really need to spell it out for you.. MERCHANT

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Ok now we really need to kill this AH stuff.. With an AH, you place a bid on items, sometimes being allowed to outbid others.. This is a merchant, aka fixed prices.. Secondly, it's regional, removing that global crap..

that is one version of it. there are others.

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

The merchant solution that I suggested will work pretty much just like a guild merchant, taxes and all.. You don't get more advantages by using him instead of a guild merchant

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

And yes, it CAN be done in zone chat, but it can also be made to work in a better way.. I detest the fact that someone at the northern end of Glenumbra can somehow still hear what the person in the south wants to sell.. That system can be improved upon

detest?

what if the person in the north wants to buy the item? both parties happy and an element of socializing involved.

but you detest that?

Daemons_Bane · July 2016

No, and you know that it was not what I said.. I detest that you can shout across a zone

jedtb16_ESO · July 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

No, and you know that it was not what I said.. I detest that you can shout across a zone

i commented on what you said - your meaning may have been otherwise but it did not come across in your post.

so really what you should be seeking is an end to zone chat not a fudged ah.

i can see that going down really well.

i like using zone chat to sell stuff - go to the major trading areas /z wts whatever.... it works really well, and there is an element of a real auction there - put up something that people want to buy and take the highest bid. there is no tax to pay, no fees to pay - it makes good use of in-game communication.

it works fine.

Tandor · July 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I dont see a problem, sorry.
You can be the loneliest of lonely wolves and still be in trading guild, the only "social" thing that is actually required is asking for invite. I'm in 2 big trading guilds, and no one cares if I'm talking to other guild members or not, the only thing that matters is selling items.
If you're afraid of seeing guild chat and talking to people, just use "offline mode" so no one can whisper you and hide chat (or, if you still want to see /z chat, just make another tab).

Most people who choose not to join a trading guild don't make that decision through any kind of fear or a desire for social isolation, they make it because they either fail to have enough surplus stuff to justify guild membership or else are opposed to the principle of such a core part of the game being locked behind artificial barriers such as guild membership. Some, of course, will belong to guilds that don't get regular trading spots.In any of those circumstances they just sell any surplus stuff to NPC merchants and get on with the rest of the game.

I wouldnt say its "artificial barrier". You can say that an auction house npc would be a "barrier" too...
And actually, guild trader system serves a very important role - its a gold sink.
I'm not saying its perfect, but just removing it will just make the price inflation even stronger.
Speaking of people who fail to sell anything in guild stores... Even with auction house system, they wont be able to sell vendor trash items and other useless stuff, and tempers/flowers/motifs/other highly demanded items can be as well just sold in /z chat.
I still cant see a problem here.
P.S. Also, you cant speak for most of people... Theyre not even on forums.

An auction house isn't what is being suggested here. And no, a NPC trader wouldn't be any form of barrier, that's the whole point - it would be a feature that was accessible to all.

Would you be happy if you could only PvP if you belonged to a PvP guild that had won the right to enter Cyrodiil this week? Would you be happy if you could only do a PvE dungeon if you belonged to a guild that had won the right to enter dungeons this week? I'm guessing the answer to both is a hearty "No" because you would see those conditions as artificial barriers to your accessing core parts of the game. Requiring you to join a trading guild and win a trader slot before you can put your goods up for sale through the trading system is just such an artificial barrier.

dalodir · July 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

No, and you know that it was not what I said.. I detest that you can shout across a zone

i commented on what you said - your meaning may have been otherwise but it did not come across in your post.

so really what you should be seeking is an end to zone chat not a fudged ah.

i can see that going down really well.

i like using zone chat to sell stuff - go to the major trading areas /z wts whatever.... it works really well, and there is an element of a real auction there - put up something that people want to buy and take the highest bid. there is no tax to pay, no fees to pay - it makes good use of in-game communication.

it works fine.

No ones asked for an AH and no ones asked to remove any chat.

If it worked fine people wouldn't be suggesting inprovements.

Tandor · July 2016

Tipsy wrote: »

Ref wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NNIpwhR66o

Like this, could open up many RP opportunities and socializing.

i don't think interacting with an npc really counts as socializing

If there would be stalls like these,i'd prefer them to only be allowed in certain areas like the market place.
For socializing purposes,it might be better to extend the idea.
so that players can offer themselves as mercenary in the tavern for dungeons,..
the ablities for players to offer certain expertis to others ,linked to a specific area that hasthe right context for it.

I'm all in favour of restricting NPC traders or stalls to just the three starting cities, that way they would enable new players to use the trading system straightaway and they could get a quest that introduced them to the guild trader system, for example by requiring them to interact with a guild trader in a couple of different locations. Meanwhile they'd be able to sell just a few items at a high commission rate that would still constitute a gold sink and with the commission shared between the trading guilds in those cities. They wouldn't be required to move on to guild traders if they didn't want or need to, but the concept would be explained to them and the choice would be theirs to make. Members of unsuccessful guilds would also be able to continue using the feature. However, with the high commission rate and severe restrictions on the number of items that could be listed, the trading guilds would continue to offer great advantages over the feature.

The introduction of such a system would benefit those who don't want to join a trading guild for whatever reason, those who belong to a trading guild that has been unsuccessful in getting a trader slot, and those who haven't yet decided what they want to do about trading guilds and don't fully understand the system. It would strengthen the trading guilds by giving them a share of the additional commission and by introducing new players to the whole concept of trading guilds. Put simply, everyone would gain and nobody would lose.

I've yet to see a proper objection to such a system. Criticism of it is limited to things like "It's an MMO, join a guild" or "we don't need an AH", both of which are completely irrelevant to the issue.

LadyNalcarya · July 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

I just dont see why people would need something with a penalty, when they can get the same thing without penalty, by joining a guild.

Very simply it's a system so both parties, guildies and non guildies, can be happy and do their trading The reason for the penalty, aka the limited sale slots, is that it would be highly unlikely that a wandering adventurer had the same connections as a well established merchant.. A merchant has built up a ring of contacts and customers, while the adventurer just roams around and sell stuff when he can.. Hence you have more slots and even an extra stall from the guild trader, IF you are in a guild.. That way you can join a guild if you are more serious about selling or just want to group up with other people, but you also have options if such a lifestyle is not what suits you

But the thing is, if its less profitable than regular guild store, then where's the incentive to use it? We already have an npc that buys stolen items, and many people were really unhappy about 35% fee...
If it will be comparable to guild store profit-wise, then why join a guild and support it?
Also, there's a listing limit (30 items per guild). So naturally you need to prioritize what you want to sell and at what price. If anyone will be able to list 30 items in any guild, this will be meaningless - people wont need to actually care if the item theyve listed sells or not. And guild stores would become much harder to navigate without addons, by the way... Vanilla guild store ui isnt exactly user friendly.
So in my opinion it would be either imbalanced in favor of "lone wolves", or very situational, depending on the limitations...

Tandor wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I dont see a problem, sorry.
You can be the loneliest of lonely wolves and still be in trading guild, the only "social" thing that is actually required is asking for invite. I'm in 2 big trading guilds, and no one cares if I'm talking to other guild members or not, the only thing that matters is selling items.
If you're afraid of seeing guild chat and talking to people, just use "offline mode" so no one can whisper you and hide chat (or, if you still want to see /z chat, just make another tab).

Most people who choose not to join a trading guild don't make that decision through any kind of fear or a desire for social isolation, they make it because they either fail to have enough surplus stuff to justify guild membership or else are opposed to the principle of such a core part of the game being locked behind artificial barriers such as guild membership. Some, of course, will belong to guilds that don't get regular trading spots.In any of those circumstances they just sell any surplus stuff to NPC merchants and get on with the rest of the game.

I wouldnt say its "artificial barrier". You can say that an auction house npc would be a "barrier" too...
And actually, guild trader system serves a very important role - its a gold sink.
I'm not saying its perfect, but just removing it will just make the price inflation even stronger.
Speaking of people who fail to sell anything in guild stores... Even with auction house system, they wont be able to sell vendor trash items and other useless stuff, and tempers/flowers/motifs/other highly demanded items can be as well just sold in /z chat.
I still cant see a problem here.
P.S. Also, you cant speak for most of people... Theyre not even on forums.

An auction house isn't what is being suggested here. And no, a NPC trader wouldn't be any form of barrier, that's the whole point - it would be a feature that was accessible to all.

Would you be happy if you could only PvP if you belonged to a PvP guild that had won the right to enter Cyrodiil this week? Would you be happy if you could only do a PvE dungeon if you belonged to a guild that had won the right to enter dungeons this week? I'm guessing the answer to both is a hearty "No" because you would see those conditions as artificial barriers to your accessing core parts of the game. Requiring you to join a trading guild and win a trader slot before you can put your goods up for sale through the trading system is just such an artificial barrier.

Guilds are also accessible to all, they usually invite anyone if there's a free spot. How's that a "barrier"?
And these comparisons are not correct. I can go pvp without a guild and just pug or go alone, and I can sell items without any guilds, in /z chat. But in pvp, pve or trading, joining a guild is very beneficial.

I_killed_Vivec · July 2016

Tandor wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

I dont see a problem, sorry.
You can be the loneliest of lonely wolves and still be in trading guild, the only "social" thing that is actually required is asking for invite. I'm in 2 big trading guilds, and no one cares if I'm talking to other guild members or not, the only thing that matters is selling items.
If you're afraid of seeing guild chat and talking to people, just use "offline mode" so no one can whisper you and hide chat (or, if you still want to see /z chat, just make another tab).

Most people who choose not to join a trading guild don't make that decision through any kind of fear or a desire for social isolation, they make it because they either fail to have enough surplus stuff to justify guild membership or else are opposed to the principle of such a core part of the game being locked behind artificial barriers such as guild membership. Some, of course, will belong to guilds that don't get regular trading spots.In any of those circumstances they just sell any surplus stuff to NPC merchants and get on with the rest of the game.

I wouldnt say its "artificial barrier". You can say that an auction house npc would be a "barrier" too...
And actually, guild trader system serves a very important role - its a gold sink.
I'm not saying its perfect, but just removing it will just make the price inflation even stronger.
Speaking of people who fail to sell anything in guild stores... Even with auction house system, they wont be able to sell vendor trash items and other useless stuff, and tempers/flowers/motifs/other highly demanded items can be as well just sold in /z chat.
I still cant see a problem here.
P.S. Also, you cant speak for most of people... Theyre not even on forums.

An auction house isn't what is being suggested here. And no, a NPC trader wouldn't be any form of barrier, that's the whole point - it would be a feature that was accessible to all.

Would you be happy if you could only PvP if you belonged to a PvP guild that had won the right to enter Cyrodiil this week? Would you be happy if you could only do a PvE dungeon if you belonged to a guild that had won the right to enter dungeons this week? I'm guessing the answer to both is a hearty "No" because you would see those conditions as artificial barriers to your accessing core parts of the game. Requiring you to join a trading guild and win a trader slot before you can put your goods up for sale through the trading system is just such an artificial barrier.

But all of the "rules" of the game are "artificial" , and selling via trade guilds is one of them. It's part of the game, trade guilds competing against each other for vendor patches, with the winners being rewarded by being able to sell their wares at better prices than you get from NPC vendors.

However, there is nothing stopping people from selling items. Everyone has access to NPC vendors. The prices you get aren't as good as you get if you are selling via a trade guild, but that is your choice!

Anyone can sell, but you might be better off if you join a trade guild.

Anyone can go and PvP, but you might be better off if you are associated with a PvP guild.

Anyone can join a PUG and do a dungeon (well... ), but you might be better off if you're a member of a dedicated PvE guild.

Your analogy doesn't support your argument, rather the opposite.