Radiant Destruction AKA PVP/tamriel destruction

TequilaFire · July 2016

lag double post

Justice31st · July 2016

TequilaFire wrote: »

Fix shuffle and up the cost on roll dodge then you can make RD dodgeable.
Although with 4 templars on you it won't make a difference.

Uping the cost on roll dodge hurts magicka builds though.

Justice31st · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Fix shuffle and up the cost on roll dodge then you can make RD dodgeable.
Although with 4 templars on you it won't make a difference.

That is a pathetic thing to say, you're saying because I'm going to be dead either way it wont make a difference... it should make a difference and there should be a counter to it. With your view it sounds like you're saying you run in those 24 group only and all jump off your horse to chase down that 1 guy.
May as well stop trying to turn ESO into a numbers game and allow for some counters. Majority of the time skilled players are able to do 4v1 etc, but if there is a beam spammer there is such an unlikely chance. To have one guy in the back hitting that crap on you.

There are so many things I would give this skill to balance it out, one of them would be if the skill has been purged or dodged, then you have an 8 second cooldown before you can cast it again. what do you think about that one @Jules (calling in the ultimate beam nerf poster) and @KenaPKK

Zenimax are just enabling toxic and pathetic gameplay styles.

Purge could be acceptable for allowing a cooldown on RD, but a dodge RD cool down would be ridiculously OP.

KenaPKK · July 2016

@Nifty2g finally a templar player with some common sense. Forumplars beware!

Yes 1v4s are entirely possible in open world for a good player, depending on whom he faces, but one idiot spamming RD on him from the background negates a third of his health pool. If you dip below 30% health, you die. That's bs. You know what's great though? If you can reach the beamtard, he is no longer an issue. All you need is a way to gap close to him or cc him at range.

The same goes for snipers and overload spammers. They're all 3 stupid abilities for PvP.

My issue with RD is thus the range. Just nerf it to a medium, just out of melee range like 15m. 18m is the range of impale, which is pretty generous. RD is objectively stronger than impale -- there is no argument -- so if it keeps the damage and the channel (which due to the instant tick and higher tooltip IS a strength) and still can't be dodged, then it should have a shorter range than impale.

I don't like cooldowns in general for ESO. This is supposed to be a resource gated combat system. I'm a bit of a purist in that sense. Take away some regen or increase costs instead imo.

Edit: Also no one uses purge until the group size grows above 6 or so. It's unnecessary below about that many people, and beam becomes less of an issue as you gain group members. Purge is too expensive and ineffective as a solo or super small group to incorporate it into balancing that scale of PvP imo.

Hymzir · July 2016

Sharee wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

You did not stop and think about the true implications of what you said.

And you did not stop and think about whether your "So you basically said that..." is equivalent to my statement or not.

It wasn't.

Being able to deal with X (what i said) is not the same as having no issues with X (you twisted my statement into this).

You used a straw man fallacy to push your agenda that Dk reflect is somehow more overpowered than radiant destruction, to try and justify RD as 'the only thing that can counter reflect'. That is false.

Well, this is getting slightly embarrassing... Do you actually understand what the Strawman Fallacy, you so much like to evoke, actually means? After all, you are doing it here yourself. Do go ahead and re-read the earlier posts. You will find nothing about my "agenda" about Scales being "more powerful than" Radiant. Nor have I at any point I tried to "justify RD as 'the only thing that can counter reflect." Both of those claims are delusions conjured forth by your mind.

And this is not even the first time you have done it in this thread. Remember posting this thing?

Sharee wrote: »

And you took that statement, and twisted it into something else(also known as the straw man fallacy): "You essentailly stated that... ...you have no issues taking on 1v4, except against Templars"

Funnily enough you did it in a sentence where you also accused me of the very same thing you yourself did. That is a classic misquote. Taking two run of sentences from a larger block of text and making the two sentences seem like part of the same notion. Well they are not. They were different sentences, professing two different notions. When taken as whole, the actual meaning of said passage is different.

Hymzir wrote: »

Stop and think what you just wrote there... You essentailly stated that one skill, Scales, can shut down every other ranged attack except Radiant. So in otherwords, with that one skill, you can negate any ranged threat you face except Radiant. That you have no issues taking on 1v4, except against Templars since you can't just negate all their abilities with with that one skill.

So I never claimed that you "You essentailly stated that... ...you have no issues taking on 1v4, except against Templars" What I asserted is that you essentially claimed that Scales can shut down every other ranged skill except Radiant, which is indeed something you did do. I then postulated, that such a claim would mean, that all but Templar groups are easy for you to handle. All thanks to this one skill. See, there is a difference in a ascribing statements to others, and in propounding the actual implications of said statements within a larger frame of observation.

Now, if you want to get technical, you could've objected to my statements by claiming conjecture or perhaps even hyperbole, and that the implied intentions of your statements were much more muted. A stance which you eventually did try to adopt, but still with a wrong term attached to your objections. Unfortunately for you, you still end up losing that debate, since I can offer ample evidence to support my assertions to be well withing the mindset of your previous posts.

Do remember that the string of comments to which I originally interjected begun with this post form you:

Sharee wrote: »

Funny how it's only radiant destruction where you automatically get rekt 4v1, while all other skills have a counter even when you are in a 4v1, eh? When i get sniped by 4 archers, i can reflect it, i can dodge it. What makes RD so special that it should be an auto-kill when outnumbered?

Which demonstrates flippant attitude towards threats posed by other attacks when compared to that of Radiant. In other words, they're not a big deal, but Radiant is which you find objectionable.

And the actual quote from you in my first post was:

Sharee wrote: »

Feel free to wait 4 seconds. And then 4 more seconds as i recast it. And then some more, just for fun.

Which reeks of that certain kind of "Yeah, you and who's army?" kind of self certain swagger. Therefore, I maintain that my postulations on your statement were well within form and in accordance to your declaration. Granted, there are some word choices that I would probably re-edit or alter a bit, if I were like writing a dissertation or something on this subject. But I'm not, I'm posting on a forum. This is not an avenue for stringent academic debate. Conventions of colloquial conversation do apply here, and some amount of leeway is normal for such venues. Adding a bit of spin and an inferred layer to ones comments is normal.

But yeah, actually trying to rebuke claims made by others is hard, and a major bother. It's just so much easier to accuse them of strawmanning and moving on.

Can you kill a full health enemy in 4 seconds using nothing but whirlwind?

...thought so.

Can you kill 6 full health enemies in 8 seconds just by using nothing but Radiant?

...thought so.

AfkNinja · July 2016

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Nifty2g finally a templar player with some common sense. Forumplars beware!

Yes 1v4s are entirely possible in open world for a good player, depending on whom he faces, but one idiot spamming RD on him from the background negates a third of his health pool. If you dip below 30% health, you die. That's bs. You know what's great though? If you can reach the beamtard, he is no longer an issue. All you need is a way to gap close to him or cc him at range.

The same goes for snipers and overload spammers. They're all 3 stupid abilities for PvP.

My issue with RD is thus the range. Just nerf it to a medium, just out of melee range like 15m. 18m is the range of impale, which is pretty generous. RD is objectively stronger than impale -- there is no argument -- so if it keeps the damage and the channel (which due to the instant tick and higher tooltip IS a strength) and still can't be dodged, then it should have a shorter range than impale.

I don't like cooldowns in general for ESO. This is supposed to be a resource gated combat system. I'm a bit of a purist in that sense. Take away some regen or increase costs instead imo.

Edit: Also no one uses purge until the group size grows above 6 or so. It's unnecessary below about that many people, and beam becomes less of an issue as you gain group members. Purge is too expensive and ineffective as a solo or super small group to incorporate it into balancing that scale of PvP imo.

Thank you for the mostly reasonable post Kena, I wish more of us could leave the antagonizing comments at home and just discuss these things without assuming someone is a moron for disagreeing.

18m seems like a fair compromise if a change is determined to be needed by Zenimax. Impale was never meant to be a moderate dps skill outside of execute though and Radiant was which is why it scales so terribly until 30% but still does SOME dps. It was clearly designed as a counter to excessive rolling, however Zenimax has issues with getting any skill to function as they intended without overlooked side effects. Who knows though they may have intended it to counter 1vX'ers too, they seem to love changing the rules so potatoes have a chance against the better players. Except in Xv1 situations though I've never really seen the skill as being all that great.

Also I would like if they just flat out ignored the overflow dmg in the combat log so people would stop thinking they got hit for 27k dmg when they had like 10k hp or less left. This would be great if it ignored overflow dmg for all skills and executes. Let's stop pretending that execute did so much dmg when you had 1000 hp left and a sneeze could have killed you.

Justice31st · July 2016

Make RD an instant execute ability like the other class executes; not a channeled ability but an instant one, then you can go ahead and nerf the range and make it dodge able all you want. Right now it is a trade off, channeled abilities make you vulnerable to damage. I have over 5k+ spell damage 41k+ Max Magicka, and I can tell you from experience RD( Radiant Oppression morph) damage is crap without execution range, and it doesn't matter if 4 Templars are channeling it at the same time with 90%+ health of opponents.

Joy_Division · July 2016

If you want to talk about nerfing RD, what else has to be including in that conversation is the stam builds that will be (and arguably are already) out of control. All stam builds, regardless of class, has damage, mobility, and survivability all in one easy package. They don't have to invest anything in their magicka pool (whereas magicka users are dead if their stam runs out). Shuffle is crazy good between root immunity and dodge chance on a long buff. Just equipping a ranged weapon grants major expedition and the HoT stacking with rally/vigor is better than anything a magicka build can do. They come in these threads and complain about the "weakness" of having to use the primary pool for defense - maybe that was a thing at launch when resource management was a thing, but that's ancient history now. They are just like the 1.6 shield stacking sorcerers that got everything with a ridiculous burst to boot from a 100% investment in a single attribute.

The only thing these builds fear is RD, which is exactly why these threads come up every single day. They have ZERO interest in balance, their agenda is plain as day when they claim making RD dodgable is "balanced." What a joke. Tell me, how is adding all sorts of disadvantages to a single target skill that come with a channel (no block cast, subject to interruption, limited mobility, loss an animation cancelling, etc) but giving no offensive advantages "balanced"? It's not and they know it. When RD was dodgable it was a terrible skill. But that's what they want. Any potential threat needs to be neutered. They aren't looking for balance. They want convenience. They want to be rock and only fight scissors or at worse, other rocks. Nerf paper.

Every day they'll make these threads whining about RD and say nothing about the ridiculously strong skill Shuffle that they abuse just as templars abuse RD. All they care about is a PvP where they can spam shuffle, dizzying swing, while not even equipping a ranged weapon and have zero single target ability in the game that they cannot 100% avoid at the press of a button. This game is full of busted abilities and sets and mechanics that make cyrodiil a beer and pretzels game that appeals to a low common denominator. If you are looking for a highly tactical combat simulation, ESO isn't it. And it isn't just because of RD. It's because of the broken crap like shuffle, fear, Malbeth, 100% penetrating sharpend/nirn maces/staffs, or whatever it is that you justify using because some templar Jesus Beamed you.

juhasman · July 2016

Mitoice wrote: »

The only good skills templars got left are radiant destruction and BoL, we dont have major brutality, or any stuns or fear, and you wanna remove the only two good templar magicka skills?? why dont you throw in punctuting and kill the class?
I play as a templar, and radiant is far from OP if youre against a good player, especially one with stuns, and if you take these two abilities away, templars are gonna be completely useless in pvp and pve, soo no, you need to learn to play, instead of calling for nerfs.

@yvesfouquet4

No stuns? Templar have 3 stuns. In 1v1 I agree radiant isnt OP but we're talking about PvP overall and this is usually not 1v1. Belive me there are ways to make this skill usebale without nerfing PvE dmg but not insanely brainless to use. Make it doing 350% more dmg under 25% hp not ,,up to" 330% starting from 50%. It'll be execute as intended and will not loose the dmg. Lower the range which will not affact PvE at all and another problem solved. It'll be still undodgable and will do lot of dmg on low hp enemies. Noone saying about removing BoL and radiant just about ballancing it because for now brainless spam of those 2 skills is the way to win which should not be that way.

juhasman · July 2016

TequilaFire wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If any 4 of the same class cast a ranged spell you're going to die so why would you nerf one spell when this is no different than 2 NB's or 2-3 sorcs, DKs...

No You dont if You'll dodge in proper moment or if You'll use scales , cloak etc. That's the problem You can counter other skills in some way but jesus beam only way to counter(interrupt) makes it really uncounterable in open pvp scenario.

You shouldn't be able to counter a channeled spell at range just like others can't counter other channels. Until PvP skills are completely different from PvE, you'll have to L2P each night.

The design can be interrupted tho so it's just a learn to play topic.
Other folks complain that you can't avoid NB actions....
Other folks complain Sorcs are too powerful....
Other folks complain DK have too many shields and their chains needs to be nerfed....

In the end, PvP is an environment where you're suppose to die over and over again. If you stand back or allow enemies to attack you in their desired position.....You're going to die. With any class skills, if you allow someone to catch you in their ideal circumstance, guess what, You loose.

The other issue is that many players all run the same few builds instead of mixing up things so I'll be honest. I don't like PvP and spend less than 30 mins a week since launch in all campaigns but I kill many with my Templar, Sorc and NB because I do not run any typical builds found on any websites.

You need to be aware of what you're up against and if you die to certain skills, you have to adjust your bars and gear immediately.

It's really a learn 2 play issue and not a need for any nerfs.
PvP be design according to the devs promotes group play in where if you're out numbered, you are to die. Anytime a player wipes a group by themselves, it's often a case of L2P.

If you're wiping in a larger group to a select few and their not emperor...L2P

L2P means:
-Know when to adjust and how to approach encounters. When to fight and when not to fight. To expect to die if X and Y are the circumstance as well as looking for opportunities to offset the battle when you see or experience certain things.

If you're always loosing....stop doing what you're doing immediately and don't complain....figure out what you're missing or what you can't overcome.

Well even if You would not write You spend 30 minutes per week on PvP i would easily guess that. And I also asume You're maybe playing other classes but templar for 20 of that 30 minutes. Cheers.

@juhasman
Do you have a Templar at level 50?
-The time I spend each week tells you what?
-Are you seeking feedback or is the intent just to express your frustrations in hopes of a ZOS change to this skill only?

-Yes
-A lot
-Both

@juhasman
So is your opinion that all things should be equal, otherwise its OP or calls for a nerf?

Your short responses don't give context to what the issue is. Considering the changes were made due to the many other Templar changes which are widely accepted as nerfs, this one skill doesn't take the class from under-powered to OP.

What are you pointing out specifically?

Templar dont know the meaning of word ,,nerf" yet. Jesus beam is at the top of the problems list which is much longer. And wtf templar was underpowered? On PvP? Holly molly when? And maybe You dont remember but before changes jesus beam was other skill which was OP also.

Sorry, you're unable to engage in a discussion.

Good luck figuring out why you keep dying.

I know very well why I am diying. Because magicka templar is out of ballance now and no templar player will admit that. If templar isnt that strong why the heck suddenly we've flood of mag templars on PvP? Because of shiny looking skills? LOL

No, it's because you refuse to listen and learn. Please continue to be my AP fodder until you eventually do.

From what i listened right now i learned 1 thing. All that templars deferders mostly playing templars as main character or just started to play it now when it's op. So it's obvious They'll defend templar to dead but it's also obvious comment of those people have no meaning for me at all until they'll show reasonable arguments which they obviously cant. AP fodder? Come and get me I am waiting. we'll see how many friends You'll bring to be able to win.

Wrong. What we do is see every single solitary day what the limitations to our skills and class actually are, unlike you, and we know what our opponents successfully counter us with. You've been told over and over how to counter it, and quite frankly I wish we hadn't explained those in such detail, because the less our opponents know, the easier they are to kill.

Classic templars... No reason to discuss with You. Christ i was laughing last time from sorcs crying about how ther class was nerfed but templars are even worse. I know people were saying me over and over how to counter RD. But all those people was mostly templars using it on PvP and perfectly knew it have nothing to do with real state of things. The only Real counter to bunch of templar spamming RD is templar spamming ritual and BoL.

Classic someone without facts who probably doesn't even PvP and sucks if he does.

Classic somoene who'll defend his build to the dead with complete ignorance of facts.

TequilaFire · July 2016

juhasman wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If any 4 of the same class cast a ranged spell you're going to die so why would you nerf one spell when this is no different than 2 NB's or 2-3 sorcs, DKs...

No You dont if You'll dodge in proper moment or if You'll use scales , cloak etc. That's the problem You can counter other skills in some way but jesus beam only way to counter(interrupt) makes it really uncounterable in open pvp scenario.

You shouldn't be able to counter a channeled spell at range just like others can't counter other channels. Until PvP skills are completely different from PvE, you'll have to L2P each night.

The design can be interrupted tho so it's just a learn to play topic.
Other folks complain that you can't avoid NB actions....
Other folks complain Sorcs are too powerful....
Other folks complain DK have too many shields and their chains needs to be nerfed....

In the end, PvP is an environment where you're suppose to die over and over again. If you stand back or allow enemies to attack you in their desired position.....You're going to die. With any class skills, if you allow someone to catch you in their ideal circumstance, guess what, You loose.

The other issue is that many players all run the same few builds instead of mixing up things so I'll be honest. I don't like PvP and spend less than 30 mins a week since launch in all campaigns but I kill many with my Templar, Sorc and NB because I do not run any typical builds found on any websites.

You need to be aware of what you're up against and if you die to certain skills, you have to adjust your bars and gear immediately.

It's really a learn 2 play issue and not a need for any nerfs.
PvP be design according to the devs promotes group play in where if you're out numbered, you are to die. Anytime a player wipes a group by themselves, it's often a case of L2P.

If you're wiping in a larger group to a select few and their not emperor...L2P

L2P means:
-Know when to adjust and how to approach encounters. When to fight and when not to fight. To expect to die if X and Y are the circumstance as well as looking for opportunities to offset the battle when you see or experience certain things.

If you're always loosing....stop doing what you're doing immediately and don't complain....figure out what you're missing or what you can't overcome.

Well even if You would not write You spend 30 minutes per week on PvP i would easily guess that. And I also asume You're maybe playing other classes but templar for 20 of that 30 minutes. Cheers.

@juhasman
Do you have a Templar at level 50?
-The time I spend each week tells you what?
-Are you seeking feedback or is the intent just to express your frustrations in hopes of a ZOS change to this skill only?

-Yes
-A lot
-Both

@juhasman
So is your opinion that all things should be equal, otherwise its OP or calls for a nerf?

Your short responses don't give context to what the issue is. Considering the changes were made due to the many other Templar changes which are widely accepted as nerfs, this one skill doesn't take the class from under-powered to OP.

What are you pointing out specifically?

Templar dont know the meaning of word ,,nerf" yet. Jesus beam is at the top of the problems list which is much longer. And wtf templar was underpowered? On PvP? Holly molly when? And maybe You dont remember but before changes jesus beam was other skill which was OP also.

Sorry, you're unable to engage in a discussion.

Good luck figuring out why you keep dying.

I know very well why I am diying. Because magicka templar is out of ballance now and no templar player will admit that. If templar isnt that strong why the heck suddenly we've flood of mag templars on PvP? Because of shiny looking skills? LOL

No, it's because you refuse to listen and learn. Please continue to be my AP fodder until you eventually do.

From what i listened right now i learned 1 thing. All that templars deferders mostly playing templars as main character or just started to play it now when it's op. So it's obvious They'll defend templar to dead but it's also obvious comment of those people have no meaning for me at all until they'll show reasonable arguments which they obviously cant. AP fodder? Come and get me I am waiting. we'll see how many friends You'll bring to be able to win.

Wrong. What we do is see every single solitary day what the limitations to our skills and class actually are, unlike you, and we know what our opponents successfully counter us with. You've been told over and over how to counter it, and quite frankly I wish we hadn't explained those in such detail, because the less our opponents know, the easier they are to kill.

Classic templars... No reason to discuss with You. Christ i was laughing last time from sorcs crying about how ther class was nerfed but templars are even worse. I know people were saying me over and over how to counter RD. But all those people was mostly templars using it on PvP and perfectly knew it have nothing to do with real state of things. The only Real counter to bunch of templar spamming RD is templar spamming ritual and BoL.

Classic someone without facts who probably doesn't even PvP and sucks if he does.

Classic somoene who'll defend his build to the dead with complete ignorance of facts.

See I rest my case, I main a Stamblade!

EsoRecon · July 2016

I think the solution is to make all executes undodgeable and deal as much damage as rd. See how those Templars like it.

SirDopey · July 2016

This, as with every other "Nerf Templar" thread is purely a L2P issue. Why hasn't this this thread been locked yet for duplicate content??

On my templar, sure I can absolutely melt some people with my RD - but all the decent players I cross in Cyrodil have 0 issues countering it, in fact I generally don't use it until I see the player down to 2 or 3 k health because I know most decent players can counter it. The issue is, there's so many trash players running around that just cop the beam in the face, have poorly thought out CPs, running around in all light infused armor and no idea what they're doing and getting slaughtered because of it.

Inig0 · July 2016

juhasman wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Cambion wrote: »

The range is a slight issue, but not that much of one really I think. The only thing I want to know is why does the execute start at 50%? I think that the execute range of all of them should be 20%.

Because it was designed that way.

So it was designed wrong way. All range execytes should start to do increased dmg under 25% and not have that ,,increased up to" factor but just constant value. Hp falls under 25% dmg are increased by 300%. That ,,increased up to" factor should be reserved for meele executes.

Why? Because you are Melee?

Nope. Because i have eyes connected with brain.I have each class in magicka and stamina so no favours for any build.
Here take a look at execute balance now.
https://youtu.be/em46ajNfuTU

my favorite thing about this video is that people have accused me of using macros cause my animation cancel is so on point.
#l2p

juhasman · July 2016

Inig0 wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Cambion wrote: »

The range is a slight issue, but not that much of one really I think. The only thing I want to know is why does the execute start at 50%? I think that the execute range of all of them should be 20%.

Because it was designed that way.

So it was designed wrong way. All range execytes should start to do increased dmg under 25% and not have that ,,increased up to" factor but just constant value. Hp falls under 25% dmg are increased by 300%. That ,,increased up to" factor should be reserved for meele executes.

Why? Because you are Melee?

Nope. Because i have eyes connected with brain.I have each class in magicka and stamina so no favours for any build.
Here take a look at execute balance now.
https://youtu.be/em46ajNfuTU

my favorite thing about this video is that people have accused me of using macros cause my animation cancel is so on point.
#l2p

@Inig0 Hah lol good that noone accused templar of using macro on jesus beam:)

Idinuse · July 2016

juhasman wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If any 4 of the same class cast a ranged spell you're going to die so why would you nerf one spell when this is no different than 2 NB's or 2-3 sorcs, DKs...

No You dont if You'll dodge in proper moment or if You'll use scales , cloak etc. That's the problem You can counter other skills in some way but jesus beam only way to counter(interrupt) makes it really uncounterable in open pvp scenario.

You shouldn't be able to counter a channeled spell at range just like others can't counter other channels. Until PvP skills are completely different from PvE, you'll have to L2P each night.

The design can be interrupted tho so it's just a learn to play topic.
Other folks complain that you can't avoid NB actions....
Other folks complain Sorcs are too powerful....
Other folks complain DK have too many shields and their chains needs to be nerfed....

In the end, PvP is an environment where you're suppose to die over and over again. If you stand back or allow enemies to attack you in their desired position.....You're going to die. With any class skills, if you allow someone to catch you in their ideal circumstance, guess what, You loose.

The other issue is that many players all run the same few builds instead of mixing up things so I'll be honest. I don't like PvP and spend less than 30 mins a week since launch in all campaigns but I kill many with my Templar, Sorc and NB because I do not run any typical builds found on any websites.

You need to be aware of what you're up against and if you die to certain skills, you have to adjust your bars and gear immediately.

It's really a learn 2 play issue and not a need for any nerfs.
PvP be design according to the devs promotes group play in where if you're out numbered, you are to die. Anytime a player wipes a group by themselves, it's often a case of L2P.

If you're wiping in a larger group to a select few and their not emperor...L2P

L2P means:
-Know when to adjust and how to approach encounters. When to fight and when not to fight. To expect to die if X and Y are the circumstance as well as looking for opportunities to offset the battle when you see or experience certain things.

If you're always loosing....stop doing what you're doing immediately and don't complain....figure out what you're missing or what you can't overcome.

Well even if You would not write You spend 30 minutes per week on PvP i would easily guess that. And I also asume You're maybe playing other classes but templar for 20 of that 30 minutes. Cheers.

@juhasman
Do you have a Templar at level 50?
-The time I spend each week tells you what?
-Are you seeking feedback or is the intent just to express your frustrations in hopes of a ZOS change to this skill only?

-Yes
-A lot
-Both

@juhasman
So is your opinion that all things should be equal, otherwise its OP or calls for a nerf?

Your short responses don't give context to what the issue is. Considering the changes were made due to the many other Templar changes which are widely accepted as nerfs, this one skill doesn't take the class from under-powered to OP.

What are you pointing out specifically?

Templar dont know the meaning of word ,,nerf" yet. Jesus beam is at the top of the problems list which is much longer. And wtf templar was underpowered? On PvP? Holly molly when? And maybe You dont remember but before changes jesus beam was other skill which was OP also.

Sorry, you're unable to engage in a discussion.

Good luck figuring out why you keep dying.

I know very well why I am diying. Because magicka templar is out of ballance now and no templar player will admit that. If templar isnt that strong why the heck suddenly we've flood of mag templars on PvP? Because of shiny looking skills? LOL

No, it's because you refuse to listen and learn. Please continue to be my AP fodder until you eventually do.

From what i listened right now i learned 1 thing. All that templars defenders mostly playing templars as main character or just started to play it now when it's op. So it's obvious They'll defend templar to dead but it's also obvious comment of those people have no meaning for me at all until they'll show reasonable arguments which they obviously cant. AP fodder? Come and get me I am waiting. we'll see how many friends You'll bring to be able to win.

Now if that's true, there's one build that needs to be nerfed alright. "we'll see how many friends You'll bring to be able to win"? And you are here QQ for nerfs to the same people you'll kill en mass? Oh sweet lord (of any theology), these butthurt crying threads are just getting more and more amusing.

maxjapank · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

Omg! Is this another "I lost to 4+ enemies, so lets blame Radiant"? You could post any death recap of 4 or more players and you would still be dead.

Aliyavana · July 2016

when rd doesn't crit and it still take off half your health

Van_0S · July 2016

yvesfouquet4 wrote: »

And i think in addition to all of this if there are this many topics about Radiant that there is quite something wrong ^^ :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/276171/radiant-destruction

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/251885/radiant-destruction

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/266169/time-for-radiant-destruction-to-be-nerfed

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/255821/the-inability-to-dodge-radiant-destruction-is-too-extreme

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/270944/cyrodiil-unskilled-melee-dks-vs-radiant-destruction

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/251887/uhh-radiant-destruction-needs-to-be-toned-down

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/257450/radiant-destruction-hitting-for-29-134-that-is-what-i-call-broken

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/164824/radiant-destruction

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154664/radiant-destruction-seriously

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154713/radiant-destruction-needs-a-nerf-for-pvp-asap-spammable-soul-assault

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/170684/radiant-destruction-better-then-soul-assault

Nope, not even close!
If you want RD to get nerfed then remove cloak and shuffle from the game!

Van_0S · July 2016

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Yesterday I took 20k radiant damage with 27k Health and my character died.

Still i have not complaint about nerf! If you dodge in backward direction or increase gap Radiant breaks.

I do not know why people want the whole game to nerf! this is only templar best executioner + they are using now a days as Main DPS...

I also have templar character and I use this skill mainly but its not like a killing spree...guys learn game and avoid mistakes instead of asking Nerf! Nerf!

Even, I always dodge RD as a Magblade( just cloak

). For, my magplar, I use ritual or dodge near an obstacle.

maxjapank · July 2016

Van_0S wrote: »

yvesfouquet4 wrote: »

And i think in addition to all of this if there are this many topics about Radiant that there is quite something wrong ^^ :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/276171/radiant-destruction

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/251885/radiant-destruction

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/266169/time-for-radiant-destruction-to-be-nerfed

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/255821/the-inability-to-dodge-radiant-destruction-is-too-extreme

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/270944/cyrodiil-unskilled-melee-dks-vs-radiant-destruction

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/251887/uhh-radiant-destruction-needs-to-be-toned-down

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/257450/radiant-destruction-hitting-for-29-134-that-is-what-i-call-broken

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/164824/radiant-destruction

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154664/radiant-destruction-seriously

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/154713/radiant-destruction-needs-a-nerf-for-pvp-asap-spammable-soul-assault

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/170684/radiant-destruction-better-then-soul-assault

Nope, not even close!
If you want RD to get nerfed then remove cloak and shuffle from the game!

Yep. Let's take shuffle away. Allow dodge to be used with skill, and you can make Radiant dodge able again.

Nifty2g · July 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

Omg! Is this another "I lost to 4+ enemies, so lets blame Radiant"? You could post any death recap of 4 or more players and you would still be dead.

How about you read what i said above the image. Yes I'm blaming radiant, I would stand much more of a chance without 4 beams being on me by 4 different people.

And then when you have that many beams on you, your health desyncs

Van_0S · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

Omg! Is this another "I lost to 4+ enemies, so lets blame Radiant"? You could post any death recap of 4 or more players and you would still be dead.

How about you read what i said above the image. Yes I'm blaming radiant, I would stand much more of a chance without 4 beams being on me by 4 different people.

And then when you have that many beams on you, your health desyncs

Block, Ex-ritual( animation cancel)/Eff-purge, Healing ward(animation cancel) till barrier is up or just dodge near an obstacle.
Also, just move near the keep, where they can't get range( that is, if they are beaming above the keep)

juhasman · July 2016

Idinuse wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If any 4 of the same class cast a ranged spell you're going to die so why would you nerf one spell when this is no different than 2 NB's or 2-3 sorcs, DKs...

No You dont if You'll dodge in proper moment or if You'll use scales , cloak etc. That's the problem You can counter other skills in some way but jesus beam only way to counter(interrupt) makes it really uncounterable in open pvp scenario.

You shouldn't be able to counter a channeled spell at range just like others can't counter other channels. Until PvP skills are completely different from PvE, you'll have to L2P each night.

The design can be interrupted tho so it's just a learn to play topic.
Other folks complain that you can't avoid NB actions....
Other folks complain Sorcs are too powerful....
Other folks complain DK have too many shields and their chains needs to be nerfed....

In the end, PvP is an environment where you're suppose to die over and over again. If you stand back or allow enemies to attack you in their desired position.....You're going to die. With any class skills, if you allow someone to catch you in their ideal circumstance, guess what, You loose.

The other issue is that many players all run the same few builds instead of mixing up things so I'll be honest. I don't like PvP and spend less than 30 mins a week since launch in all campaigns but I kill many with my Templar, Sorc and NB because I do not run any typical builds found on any websites.

You need to be aware of what you're up against and if you die to certain skills, you have to adjust your bars and gear immediately.

It's really a learn 2 play issue and not a need for any nerfs.
PvP be design according to the devs promotes group play in where if you're out numbered, you are to die. Anytime a player wipes a group by themselves, it's often a case of L2P.

If you're wiping in a larger group to a select few and their not emperor...L2P

L2P means:
-Know when to adjust and how to approach encounters. When to fight and when not to fight. To expect to die if X and Y are the circumstance as well as looking for opportunities to offset the battle when you see or experience certain things.

If you're always loosing....stop doing what you're doing immediately and don't complain....figure out what you're missing or what you can't overcome.

Well even if You would not write You spend 30 minutes per week on PvP i would easily guess that. And I also asume You're maybe playing other classes but templar for 20 of that 30 minutes. Cheers.

@juhasman
Do you have a Templar at level 50?
-The time I spend each week tells you what?
-Are you seeking feedback or is the intent just to express your frustrations in hopes of a ZOS change to this skill only?

-Yes
-A lot
-Both

@juhasman
So is your opinion that all things should be equal, otherwise its OP or calls for a nerf?

Your short responses don't give context to what the issue is. Considering the changes were made due to the many other Templar changes which are widely accepted as nerfs, this one skill doesn't take the class from under-powered to OP.

What are you pointing out specifically?

Templar dont know the meaning of word ,,nerf" yet. Jesus beam is at the top of the problems list which is much longer. And wtf templar was underpowered? On PvP? Holly molly when? And maybe You dont remember but before changes jesus beam was other skill which was OP also.

Sorry, you're unable to engage in a discussion.

Good luck figuring out why you keep dying.

I know very well why I am diying. Because magicka templar is out of ballance now and no templar player will admit that. If templar isnt that strong why the heck suddenly we've flood of mag templars on PvP? Because of shiny looking skills? LOL

No, it's because you refuse to listen and learn. Please continue to be my AP fodder until you eventually do.

From what i listened right now i learned 1 thing. All that templars defenders mostly playing templars as main character or just started to play it now when it's op. So it's obvious They'll defend templar to dead but it's also obvious comment of those people have no meaning for me at all until they'll show reasonable arguments which they obviously cant. AP fodder? Come and get me I am waiting. we'll see how many friends You'll bring to be able to win.

Now if that's true, there's one build that needs to be nerfed alright. "we'll see how many friends You'll bring to be able to win"? And you are here QQ for nerfs to the same people you'll kill en mass? Oh sweet lord (of any theology), these butthurt crying threads are just getting more and more amusing.

Not 1 build but few not nerfed but ballanced. But since this discussion is about RD lets keep the topic. And my ,,invitation" was rather irony then a thing You take serious and makes post about.

maxjapank · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

Omg! Is this another "I lost to 4+ enemies, so lets blame Radiant"? You could post any death recap of 4 or more players and you would still be dead.

How about you read what i said above the image. Yes I'm blaming radiant, I would stand much more of a chance without 4 beams being on me by 4 different people.

And then when you have that many beams on you, your health desyncs

How much do you pvp, Nifty? There are tons of ways to die and tons of counter plays. I rarely die to Radiant. Mainly because I know how to los or I purge it. Or I heal through it. I am a Templar after all, so I have the necessary tools and knowledge to deal with it. But I am at the mercy of other things, for example dizzying swing and arrows. As a Magicka Templar I don't have the stamina to continually dodge or block those. But you don't see me up here asking for nerfs on stamina builds. We adjust our builds to overcome our weaknesses and also practice to get better. But when you're outnumbered, there really isn't that much you can do.

Now I'm not questioning your knowledge of Templar's, but I am asking how often you pvp?

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

@Nifty2g finally a templar player with some common sense. Forumplars beware!

Yes 1v4s are entirely possible in open world for a good player, depending on whom he faces, but one idiot spamming RD on him from the background negates a third of his health pool. If you dip below 30% health, you die. That's bs. You know what's great though? If you can reach the beamtard, he is no longer an issue. All you need is a way to gap close to him or cc him at range.

The same goes for snipers and overload spammers. They're all 3 stupid abilities for PvP.

My issue with RD is thus the range. Just nerf it to a medium, just out of melee range like 15m. 18m is the range of impale, which is pretty generous. RD is objectively stronger than impale -- there is no argument -- so if it keeps the damage and the channel (which due to the instant tick and higher tooltip IS a strength) and still can't be dodged, then it should have a shorter range than impale.

I don't like cooldowns in general for ESO. This is supposed to be a resource gated combat system. I'm a bit of a purist in that sense. Take away some regen or increase costs instead imo.

Edit: Also no one uses purge until the group size grows above 6 or so. It's unnecessary below about that many people, and beam becomes less of an issue as you gain group members. Purge is too expensive and ineffective as a solo or super small group to incorporate it into balancing that scale of PvP imo.

Thank you for the mostly reasonable post Kena, I wish more of us could leave the antagonizing comments at home and just discuss these things without assuming someone is a moron for disagreeing.

.

Ok, usually I'm pretty good at spotting it, but this is sarcasm right? I mean his very first line is antagonizing and insulting someone's intelligence?

Never mind it has to be sarcasm.

FearlessOne_2014 · July 2016

xerasia wrote: »

Templar here with RO on the bar. Plenty of players break radiant by line-of-sighting or just jack up the whole group by VD/Proxy bombing. If something has to be done to it I think reducing the range is a more fair compromise than making it dodgeable. The only powerful ranged skills I have in my rotation are dark flare (dodgeable) and radiant. Up close, sweeps are screwed at the moment (on console) and are akin to poking someone in the chest with a glowing coffee stirrer, and toppling isn't reliable or a solid DPS move without sweeps to back it up. I need *something* to work with. Particularly since magicka builds are feeling the sting bad enough right now. And there is the point made earlier about how reducing damage would screw the PvEers pretty bad.

I agree that there are players out there spamming it on full-health targets (which, when I accidentally target the wrong player and hit the full or mostly full health guy, I cringe and break it myself) and it's super cheeseball when they do - almost making it an embarrassing skill to use - but just hang in there, there will be something new that everyone hops on soon enough.

But it's completely ok for Nightblades to kill you with 4 or 5 attacks in one second right? Right? Or am I missing something here, and please tell me that I need to L2P. Do it I dare you! I sometimes cringe to when I instantly kill people on my nightblade from stealth giving them absolutely on way in the world to counter the death by 5 abilities in one second. Sometimes makes me embarrassed to play the class it's such brain dead easy mode(cheeseball to infinity and beyond.

Sharee · July 2016

Hymzir wrote: »

What I asserted is that you essentially claimed that Scales can shut down every other ranged skill except Radiant, which is indeed something you did do.

No, that is absolutely not what i did do.

I claimed i have tools to deal with other ranged attacks. I did not claim i have no issues with other ranged attacks, can shut them down, negate any ranged threat, or whatever else you tried to turn my statement into.

A templar can use heals to deal with incoming damage. Does that mean templars have no issues with incoming damage? Of course not. Your assertion that the one equals the other is incorrect.

Hymzir wrote: »

Do go ahead and re-read the earlier posts. You will find nothing about my "agenda" about Scales being "more powerful than" Radiant. Nor have I at any point I tried to "justify RD as 'the only thing that can counter reflect." Both of those claims are delusions conjured forth by your mind.

You insinuated that reflect is more OP than Radiant here:

Hymzir wrote: »

Stop and think what you just wrote there... You essentailly stated that one skill, Scales, can shut down every other ranged attack except Radiant. So in otherwords, with that one skill, you can negate any ranged threat you face except Radiant. That you have no issues taking on 1v4, except against Templars since you can't just negate all their abilities with with that one skill.

And some people consider Radiant to be OP?

You insinuated that RD is the only thing that can counter reflect here:

Hymzir wrote: »

And you're right, Scales doesn't make you invulnerable to ranged, nor is waiting the solution. Know what the solution is?

Radiant Oppression.

Volrion · July 2016

I do enjoy playing my Magicka Templar, and I've recently been playing a ranged/support build and he's doing quite well for himself in Pvp.

But let's be honest here, both my nightblades, and even my stamplar would shred him to pieces.

Magplar is not broken at all. L2P dude.

Hymzir · July 2016

Sharee wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

What I asserted is that you essentially claimed that Scales can shut down every other ranged skill except Radiant, which is indeed something you did do.

No, that is absolutely not what I did do.

You are still arguing beside the point. Trying to claim that you did not post the things you did, in the manner you did, will only make you look foolish. At best you can concede, that maybe you did approach the issue in an egregious manner. Perhaps a more calm and reasoned approach, would have helped you to better convey what you actually wanted to state.

But here's the thing... When you do frame your arguments in this manner, in a more muted form, you will realize how hollow they truly are.

I claimed I have tools to deal with other ranged attacks.

To which one can only say: Cool, good for you. But when you posit something like this:

Sharee wrote: »

Funny how it's only radiant destruction where you automatically get rekt 4v1, while all other skills have a counter even when you are in a 4v1, eh? When i get sniped by 4 archers, i can reflect it, i can dodge it. What makes RD so special that it should be an auto-kill when outnumbered?

Then all I can say, is that the reason for it, is your decision to run a build that lacks the tools to cover this form of attack. You're basically whining, that the tools you do run, do not cover everything. Well, that's the idea. No one skill or method should cover all defenses. Scales covers plenty enough as is, as does dodge rolling. There are plenty of ways to deal with Radiant. If you choose not to use them, that's your problem.

We can talk about balance in general, and certainly there is room for tweaking things across the board. But asking Radiant to be nerfed just because you choose not to adapt your build to it's existence is daft. And when you're proof for your claim is that the tools you do use, cover everything else but the attacks designed to counter the tools you use, it sounds even sillier.

Now, I was going to let this thing lie... but since you decided to go ahead and post BS about me making silly claims, I feel compelled to bust your silly assertions.

Sharee wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

Do go ahead and re-read the earlier posts. You will find nothing about my "agenda" about Scales being "more powerful than" Radiant. Nor have I at any point I tried to "justify RD as 'the only thing that can counter reflect." Both of those claims are delusions conjured forth by your mind.

You insinuated that reflect is more OP than Radiant here:

Hymzir wrote: »

Stop and think what you just wrote there... You essentially stated that one skill, Scales, can shut down every other ranged attack except Radiant. So in otherwords, with that one skill, you can negate any ranged threat you face except Radiant. That you have no issues taking on 1v4, except against Templars since you can't just negate all their abilities with with that one skill.
And some people consider Radiant to be OP?

Sorry, but you fail at reading comprehension. I'm not insinuating anything here. What I am doing here is implying something, and you're not even getting right as to what is being implied.

"And some people consider Radiant to be OP?" Is a quip. A bit of witticism offered to the audience following the discussion. An ironic punch line to close up a paragraph exposing the core fault in your claims. The implication is that calling Radiant OP is silly, when you really start to think about the relative strength of various skills. And for something to be OP, it must be more powerful than other skills. Arguing it is OP because your build is weak to it is facetious.

And if we get technical once more, insinuate nor implicate are the same as claim. You cannot assert that I have made a claim, and then try to prove it by depositing that I insinuated something towards that end. Especially when your so called example of my insinuations is actually an implication. But this is getting very academic and silly.

My stance is still valid, however, I have not made any claims as to Scales being more OP than Radiant. And all you've proven me to do, is to have made the implication that maybe Radiant isn't as OP as some people think.

You insinuated that RD is the only thing that can counter reflect here:

Hymzir wrote: »

And you're right, Scales doesn't make you invulnerable to ranged, nor is waiting the solution. Know what the solution is?
Radiant Oppression.

And missed again. Not insinuating anything here either, and nowhere in the quote do I state Radiant is the only option, so... yeah, fail. What I did there was offer you a snap back, a retort exposing the flaw in your position. There are plenty of ways to deal with Scales, and one of those methods is Radiant. Thus it's silly to claim that there are ways to deal with scales and thus the skill is fine, while at the same time whining about people using Radiant to deal with Scales. In a more serious venue of debate, I might've modified the statement to note that Radiant is among the many ways to deal with scales But doing so would have diminished it's impact as a retort. So I chose not to bother with such fiddly details.

In the end, the thing is, you said something careless in a flippant manner without fully realizing the ramifications of those statements. I called you out on it, and you are not happy about it. At first you tried to deny ever having done so. But when it become evident that you can't alter the facts, you then tried to turn the tables and accused me of saying silly things. Doing so, instead of trying to defend your stand and refute my assertions, is really rather weak. In essence, you are grasping at straws here. Taking stuff out of context and trying to make them look like something they are not, so that you don't have to deal with the actual issue.

In other words, you are doing a classical case of Strawman arguments. You are trying to discredit my criticism by ascribing to my statements things that are completely fabricated. You are in essence saying "Look here's a donkey, therefore dogs exist!" Sorry, but it doesn't quite work that way. So please, do not start accusing others of Strawmanning unless you actually posses the ability to back those claims with solid argumentation. Much better to keep things on a conversational level. Especially if your attempts to prove someone is Srrawmanning result in you using your own Strawman arguments.