The inability to dodge Radiant Destruction is too extreme

Fat_Cat45

Current executes:

2H Executioner: Melee range, can be dodged.
Nightblade Impale: Melee range, can be dodged. Morph to a short ranged attack, can be dodged.
Bow Poison Injection: Ranged, damage over time, can only dodge the initial hit but not the DoT (Not a true execute in my opinion, but it does do 200% extra damage at max).
Sorcerer Mage's Wrath: Ranged, can not be dodged (the execute explosion), only procs at 20% or less health.

And then....

Radiant Destruction: Ranged, can not be dodged, channel, extremely far range, 50% or less hp to trigger bonus damage.

There's another issue with Radiant Destruction too involving line of sight checks. The ability will not consider line of sight unless the entire 1 second interval between damage ticks is blocked by line of sight. So if only the last 0.5 seconds of the 1 second interval before the next tick of damage is cut by line of sight, you will still take damage. So good luck actually using line of sight to try and counter Radiant Destruction.

I have a strong tolerance for any sort of imbalance, bug, or abusing of bugs, but the change to make Radiant Destruction not able to be dodged is the one change I have ever been mad about.

Either bring other executes up to par with Radiant Destruction so they can't be dodged, or allow it to be dodged. It was in a perfectly fine position before this dodge change. It's obviously riskier gameplay to get off a melee range execute than sit behind a few players and have the execute auto-target for you.

This is my main issue:
If I were to relate this to a magicka build, think of Radiant Destruction doing damage through shields. Roll dodge is our "temporary health shield" because any attacks that get dodged can be interpreted as "getting absorbed" just like a damage shield.

And putting extra Champion Points into Tick Skinned does nowhere near enough to negate the issue of Radiant Destruction not being able to be dodged. This one ability is what ruins any fights where I'm outnumbered on my stamina characters.

Lightninvash

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

Current executes:

2H Executioner: Melee range, can be dodged.
Nightblade Impale: Melee range, can be dodged. Morph to a short ranged attack, can be dodged.
Bow Poison Injection: Ranged, damage over time, can only dodge the initial hit but not the DoT (Not a true execute in my opinion, but it does do 200% extra damage at max).
Sorcerer Mage's Wrath: Ranged, can not be dodged (the execute explosion), only procs at 20% or less health.

And then....

Radiant Destruction: Ranged, can not be dodged, channel, extremely far range, 50% or less hp to trigger bonus damage.

There's another issue with Radiant Destruction too involving line of sight checks. The ability will not consider line of sight unless the entire 1 second interval between damage ticks is blocked by line of sight. So if only the last 0.5 seconds of the 1 second interval before the next tick of damage is cut by line of sight, you will still take damage. So good luck actually using line of sight to try and counter Radiant Destruction.

I have a strong tolerance for any sort of imbalance, bug, or abusing of bugs, but the change to make Radiant Destruction not able to be dodged is the one change I am mad about.

Either bring other executes up to par with Radiant Destruction so they can't be dodged, or allow it to be dodged. It was in a perfectly fine position before this dodge change. It's obviously riskier gameplay to get off a melee range execute than sit behind a few players and have the execute auto-target for you.

This is all from the perspective of a player who only plays stamina of each class. If I were to relate this to a magicka build, think of Radiant Destruction doing damage through shields. Roll dodge is our "temporary health shield" because any attacks that get dodged can be interpreted as "getting absorbed" just like a damage shield.

And putting extra Champion Points into Tick Skinned does nowhere near enough to negate the issue of Radiant Destruction not being able to be dodged

bow users field day or destroy staff has a skill to counter that for magic users... or bash it..... there are a list of skills that stop radiant destruction u should learn them I made a post about it before I could link it here for you just so you can see how easy it is.

EDIT: here they are this is a list I took from another users post that was similar to my own
Bash
Block
Don't roll
Don't mist form
Stonefist
Crushing Shock
Deepbreath
Flame Reach
WB
Magnum Shot
Javelin
Power Bash
Cloak
Purge
Purify
Crystal Frag
Familiar Explosion
Prison
Silver Shards(if vamp)
Dawnbreaker(if vamp)
Turn Undead(if vamp)
Fear
Meteor
Fire Rune
Drain(vamp)
LOS
Howl(WW)
Dragonleap
Soul Tether
Incapacitating Strike
Agony
Petrify
Any Shield(Hardened, Rock, Blazing, Magic Harness, Healing Ward)
Toppling(when it works)
Luminous Shards
Streak
Venom Arrow

notimetocare

I dont think its the inability to dodge, the core issue with RD is that is scales while its active and not when cast.

Fat_Cat45

Lightninvash wrote: »

bow users field day or destroy staff has a skill to counter that for magic users... or bash it..... there are a list of skills that stop radiant destruction u should learn them I made a post about it before I could link it here for you just so you can see how easy it is.

I'm not really considering it in a 1v1 situation where I can focus solely on the Templar using it. This is from a small group scenario, or 1vX scenario.

And this isn't a "learn to counter" issue, it's an issue of the imbalance between executes. If anything melee executes should be the one unable to be dodged, not ones safe at range.

Refuse2GrowUp

Lightninvash wrote: »

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

Current executes:

2H Executioner: Melee range, can be dodged.
Nightblade Impale: Melee range, can be dodged. Morph to a short ranged attack, can be dodged.
Bow Poison Injection: Ranged, damage over time, can only dodge the initial hit but not the DoT (Not a true execute in my opinion, but it does do 200% extra damage at max).
Sorcerer Mage's Wrath: Ranged, can not be dodged (the execute explosion), only procs at 20% or less health.

And then....

Radiant Destruction: Ranged, can not be dodged, channel, extremely far range, 50% or less hp to trigger bonus damage.

There's another issue with Radiant Destruction too involving line of sight checks. The ability will not consider line of sight unless the entire 1 second interval between damage ticks is blocked by line of sight. So if only the last 0.5 seconds of the 1 second interval before the next tick of damage is cut by line of sight, you will still take damage. So good luck actually using line of sight to try and counter Radiant Destruction.

I have a strong tolerance for any sort of imbalance, bug, or abusing of bugs, but the change to make Radiant Destruction not able to be dodged is the one change I am mad about.

Either bring other executes up to par with Radiant Destruction so they can't be dodged, or allow it to be dodged. It was in a perfectly fine position before this dodge change. It's obviously riskier gameplay to get off a melee range execute than sit behind a few players and have the execute auto-target for you.

This is all from the perspective of a player who only plays stamina of each class. If I were to relate this to a magicka build, think of Radiant Destruction doing damage through shields. Roll dodge is our "temporary health shield" because any attacks that get dodged can be interpreted as "getting absorbed" just like a damage shield.

And putting extra Champion Points into Tick Skinned does nowhere near enough to negate the issue of Radiant Destruction not being able to be dodged

bow users field day or destroy staff has a skill to counter that for magic users... or bash it..... there are a list of skills that stop radiant destruction u should learn them I made a post about it before I could link it here for you just so you can see how easy it is.

EDIT: here they are
Bash
Block
Don't roll
Don't mist form
Stonefist
Crushing Shock
Deepbreath
Flame Reach
WB
Magnum Shot
Javelin
Power Bash
Cloak
Purge
Purify
Crystal Frag
Familiar Explosion
Prison
Silver Shards(if vamp)
Dawnbreaker(if vamp)
Turn Undead(if vamp)
Fear
Meteor
Fire Rune
Drain(vamp)
LOS
Howl(WW)
Dragonleap
Soul Tether
Incapacitating Strike
Agony
Petrify
Any Shield(Hardened, Rock, Blazing, Magic Harness, Healing Ward)
Toppling(when it works)
Luminous Shards
Streak
Venom Arrow

Way to list all the CCs. There is such a thing as CC immunity. You can CC to interrupt the first cast, but they can CC break then get several seconds of immunity to cast RD on you, and in that case only a couple of the skills you listed are actually interrupts vice CCs. And if you haven't noticed, you regularly get several Templars casting Radiant Destruction on you at the same time, from 100% health. It is much like Wrecking Blow...1v1 it is easy to avoid. In the zerg fest that is Cyrodiil, that is not often the case.

Now, I am not calling for a nerf, or supporting one for that matter either. I am mentioning this so that you do not so idly blow off the OP's concern.

AriBoh

Oh good this *** again.

PainfulFAFA

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

yep, LOL
not gonna bother writing paragraphs like i did on the other 30 threads. It all boils down to l2p.

Fat_Cat45

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

x_Nathan_F

Oh god please no more Templar nerfs wish people stop crying over dumb things like this

AriBoh

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

I don't need to. See mostly any of the 100s of posts showing why you are wrong in the other threads made by your fellow whiners.

Nifty2g

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

you can purge it
you can interrupt it
the templar stands still and has no mobility

other executes you can
animation cancel
have mobility
can't interrupt it

seems like a fair trade off to completely leave yourself open and do good damage.
risk/reward

\\\
though i agree, let people be able to dodge it to stop the qq, nerfing it will still include qq as people will still insta die from it once they hit low health.

Eshelmen

hahahahahahha feel the burn of my Jesus beam!

May you forever walk on (salt) water..

qrichou

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

AriBoh wrote: »

Oh good this *** again.

Prove to me that Radiant Destruction should be the only execute which can't be dodged. I'll wait.

that doesnt make sense . it is what it is , . prove to me that rain should be the only stuff thats wet . it just silly

pjwb16_ESO

Yea sure, deep breath and interrupt when the Templars beam from range while you are getting focused as hell -.- just please reduce the range of Jesus beam to 5 m

timidobserver

Dodge roll spammers mad.

x_Nathan_F

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Yea sure, deep breath and interrupt when the Templars beam from range while you are getting focused as hell -.- just please reduce the range of Jesus beam to 5 m

No.

Bofrari

If your dying from beam from full health or even half its not l2p issue you just need to uninstall.

AddictionX

RD zergs, RD zergs everywhere.

D0ntevenL1ft

Anyone else remember the breathe of life QQ?? Lol templars.

kevlarto_ESO

ZOS needs to fix the dodge exploit, and the use of the beam will slow down a bit, a lot of people I know use it because they are tired of 0/5 0/10 attempts to hit the target all dodged, the only thing they can hit dodge exploiters with is the Beam.

Mumyo

Just make RD another ability pls, they'll never get it done. OH HEEEEEEELP........

Daraugh

I mentioned in another post that an npc interrupted my RD. What pvper wants to say that npcs are better players than they are?

Alcast

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

bow users field day or destroy staff has a skill to counter that for magic users... or bash it..... there are a list of skills that stop radiant destruction u should learn them I made a post about it before I could link it here for you just so you can see how easy it is.

I'm not really considering it in a 1v1 situation where I can focus solely on the Templar using it. This is from a small group scenario, or 1vX scenario.

And this isn't a "learn to counter" issue, it's an issue of the imbalance between executes. If anything melee executes should be the one unable to be dodged, not ones safe at range.

How do you like my 45-50m RD execute? Ppl still think it is balanced Kappa. Also 20k ice Comets seem to be balanced so ye, only *** left in here >.>

Gonna upload a vid soon lol...just to showcase how ZOS "balances" stuff

AOECAPS

If you are letting a Templar get you that low health they deserve to execute you. Jabs are easy to get away from and no longer gives you a knockback this no infinite cc when all jabs or sweeps hit.if you are melee bash them simple enough even with the buffs Templars are still easy to kill with the exception of players like all cast blabafat and others that are their caliber.
TLDR: L2P

Phinix1

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

Current executes:

2H Executioner: Melee range, can be dodged.
Nightblade Impale: Melee range, can be dodged. Morph to a short ranged attack, can be dodged.
Bow Poison Injection: Ranged, damage over time, can only dodge the initial hit but not the DoT (Not a true execute in my opinion, but it does do 200% extra damage at max).
Sorcerer Mage's Wrath: Ranged, can not be dodged (the execute explosion), only procs at 20% or less health.

And then....

Radiant Destruction: Ranged, can not be dodged, channel, extremely far range, 50% or less hp to trigger bonus damage.

I believe your logic is fundamentally flawed for two important reasons:

• You proceed under the assumptions all abilities MUST be the exact same mechanically, without consideration of the larger balance of the class, with each of their own unique synergies and strengths.
• You compare weapon abilities to class abilities when calling for a class ability nerf.

Also, you failed to consider that Radiant is the ONLY execute with an obvious telegraph, giving you time to block, interrupt, CC, or LOS. All other executes, even the weapon ones you mention, are instant cast. Good luck dodging those. Sure in a perfect vacuum, 1v1, with full spidey sense tingle, but in the heat of battle, with average Cyrodiil lag?

Fat_Cat45 wrote: »

If I were to relate this to a magicka build, think of Radiant Destruction doing damage through shields. Roll dodge is our "temporary health shield" because any attacks that get dodged can be interpreted as "getting absorbed" just like a damage shield.

This strategy is also flawed. You are assuming your hard counter to a spammable ability is a defensive move with an increasing use cost. When they gave roll dodge a per-use cost increase like Sorcerer Streak it should have been a clear message "this is NOT meant to be spammed." So, why do you expect this to be your counter to a spammable ability?

You have other options you should consider:

• Put pressure on the Templar. Get in their face. INTERRUPT. You have bow morphs that interrupt and melee is there already... So interrupt. There is no ramping cost to interrupt.
• Use CC. Fear. Stun. Disorient. Lots of abilities do it.
• USE LOS. Use a CC to stun the Templar annd dodge out of los. Heal out of execute range. Re-engage.
• KNOW YOUR ENEMY and plan accordingly.

I don't even PVP much and even I can see there are MANY things you have overlooked and could try before encountering a new change to a ridiculously underpowered class and immediately crying NERF!

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

ZOS needs to fix the dodge exploit, and the use of the beam will slow down a bit, a lot of people I know use it because they are tired of 0/5 0/10 attempts to hit the target all dodged, the only thing they can hit dodge exploiters with is the Beam.

THIS.

Be careful what you cry nerf about, lest you draw attention to a worse mechanic you might not want attention paid to.

olsborg

I agree with the op.

templesus

Last thing templars need is another nerf

zerosingularity

Lol, looks like the RD defenders here are focused on 1v1 scenarios only. Sure in PVP, in a 1v1 scenario, any Templar spamming Cheesus Beam is gonna get rekt.

I think the issue is when 3 Templars spam it at range on you when you are fighting say, a melee DK that keeps rooting you. Or say you are in a location where you cannot physically reach the Templar's and are too close to get away in time.

Basically in certain scenarios, it is fine, and in other scenarios it outperforms EVERY other execute. At least that's what seems to be the consensus so far.

Make all executes unable to be dodged and to go through shields/block. I.E. make them EXECUTES. With all the healing, hitting an enemy when they are below 25% HP is hard, lets give it a nice payoff. Either they heal or they already died anyway. Cept with a Cheesus Beam Channel/Mage's Wrath(since delay burst).

AddictionX

zerosingularity wrote: »

Lol, looks like the RD defenders here are focused on 1v1 scenarios only. Sure in PVP, in a 1v1 scenario, any Templar spamming Cheesus Beam is gonna get rekt.

I think the issue is when 3 Templars spam it at range on you when you are fighting say, a melee DK that keeps rooting you. Or say you are in a location where you cannot physically reach the Templar's and are too close to get away in time.

Basically in certain scenarios, it is fine, and in other scenarios it outperforms EVERY other execute. At least that's what seems to be the consensus so far.

Make all executes unable to be dodged and to go through shields/block. I.E. make them EXECUTES. With all the healing, hitting an enemy when they are below 25% HP is hard, lets give it a nice payoff. Either they heal or they already died anyway. Cept with a Cheesus Beam Channel/Mage's Wrath(since delay burst).

Yep they propose a perfect world scenario

Vangy

What is this dodge exploit I keep hearing about? Yes I use shuffle on my DK and I constantly get pms that accuse me of exploiting... What is shuffle bugged or something?

NovaShadow

Vangy wrote: »

What is this dodge exploit I keep hearing about? Yes I use shuffle on my DK and I constantly get pms that accuse me of exploiting... What is shuffle bugged or something?

Yes, the dodge % is far higher than intended which makes a lot of DK's who run it dodge practically every skill. I don't even both with DK's if I see them use it.

As for RD, most of the Temp's I came across spammed only this skill and nothing else from full health. Made me lol but when you have 5 on you spamming RD it get's a little annoying. As for dodging it, it's rather easy, l2p if you can't dodge it.