SlayerTheDragon wrote: »

We really need an Ultimate Death Recap thread started. I really enjoyed this one.

Happy to oblige. Both of these were deaths to one player. >_<

Sharee wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

So yes, you did indeed imply that by spamming that one skill Snipe, Frag, Swallow soul and what ever else those 4 players would spam at you would be no big deal, since you would just negate it all by spamming Scales.

You are taking my words out of context. It was suggested that one can get around reflective scale by waiting 4 seconds. Which is nonsense, since the wings can just be recast, and that was what my reply was about. I never suggested that i am invulnerable to ranged, only that waiting is not the solution.

No, you are tryign to make something you said sound something it wasn't. The thing went more or less the following way:

It was stated that 4 Templars spamming Radiant equals death.
This was countered by stating that any 4 players spamming something equals death, since you are outnumbered.
You said, "Uh-uh, not true, I can use scales to deal with everythin else except Radiant."
To this, it was proposed, that Scales has 4 sec duration, so just wait 4 secs after the obvious telegraph of Scales.
But then you countered that: "No, that wont work either, I'll just spam scales!" You went as far as to specifically state common strong attacks as being countered by this, and even asked what could you not handle with Scales besides Radiant.

So yes, you did indeed say that scales gives you a defense agaisnt everything else except Radiant.

And you're right, Scales doesn't make you invulnerable to ranged, nor is waiting the solution. Know what the solution is?

Radiant Oppression. I wonder why so many use it these days...

Hymzir wrote: »

When a non DK is faced with 4 whatever spamming whatever, they tend to die. Regardless of what skill is being spammed. That is the true difference you are alluding to.

A sorc can bolt away. A nightblade can cloak. A templar can just wave his hand and undo all the damage done to him. All in all, DK's have the worst survivability in this scenario, since the 4 reflects can be used up instantly by just two attackers weaving a skill with a LA.

LOL... DK... the... worst... survivability? Now you're just trolling.

Also I did note myself that Sorcs can use their mobility to escape such situations too. So yes, I am well aware of that. There is a reson why my kill 20 Sorcs quests take forever to complete (unless I run into an AD zerg, since they are always chock full of sorcs), and the reason is that they just run away, and as a Magicka Templar I really have no reliable means to chace them. I could make a Sorc killer build, but then would have trouble with everything else. So that's another compromise I've had to do. Can't have everything covered at the same time after all.

And, oh, if Templars could indeed just wave their hands to outdo all the damage, that would be bliss. Unfortuantely it doesn't work that way. Have you ever seriously played a Templar? I mean for reals? Rushed Ceremony and it's morphs are much more expensive to cast than the attacks you need to heal, so spamming it will not offer long term solutions. Unless you go full reg on magicka, but then you will lose all damage potential. Rushed is also not an instant cast like it claims to be. There is actually a small delay between casting and something actually happening. Many a times I've died waving my hand above my head, with no actual healing happening. I get hit by a strong attack and go low on health, try to heal, the animation starts, I am waving my hand and then get hit again and die, becasue the healing is not instant. They did tone the delay down a bit, but it isn''t completely gone. Remember, Templars are just designed to be slower... and all that.

You can't even animation cancel it reliably - If I try to cut it short with block, know what happens? Do you?

You know what Templars spam to stay alive under a barrage of attacks these days? Harness Magicka. That thing is instant, gives protection against crits and can be reliably animation cancelled. The changes to shields with the last update really helped Templar survivability. But the change that enabled it was not a change to the Tempalr class itself.

Hymzir wrote: »

All classes spam skills. What they spam differs from class to class. And they all spam them mindlessly. Each has it's own specific benefit as to why it is spammed.

I am not talking about simply spamming a skill, i am talking about an execute being spammed at full health enemies and still being effective. Only templars can do that.

You are hung on the execute part. Would you be happier if the 4 Templars spammed you with channeled staff attacks first, and switch to Radiant when you are in execute range? Would that be better? You would die lot faster, since those channeled heavy attacks tick for more damage than Radiant does above 50%. But at least they would not be spamming an execute on full health target.

Look, every solid skill in ESO has to pull double duty. Otherwise no one slots it. There simply is no room for one use skills on our 5 slot bars. Every skill has a primary use and a secondary tacked onto it. In case of Radiant, the secondary is it being a weak ranged channeled attack. The primary is the execute. IN PVE you first use Flare and then do Radiant. But in PVP... Well, there are some who do try to use Flare, but most don't since it just gets dodged or reflected, or at the very least, the target blocks since it has an obvious telegraph. And getting it reflected back to you with extra damage... yeah not fun. So only few slot it. So what do they use for range attacks then? Radiant, it has a weak secondary use as a ranged channel. So it offers a weaker version of the same functionality you get with channeled staff attacks, but with the advantage of not having to run with a staff. You also lose the benefits of heavy attacks but... well you do get an exectue to make up for it.

And you are right, it's an option only available to Templars. But Templars pay for it by having bad mobility. And channeled attacks themselve have a bunch of associated downsides. It's a Tempalr specialty just like DKs have their scales and NBs have cloak and Sorcs have Frags. They also lack some stuff the other classes have and they all pay for their pros with a bunch of cons. But, most people are blind to the cons of other classes, and only see their pros. And thus the calls to nerf continue.

Hymzir wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

So yes, you did indeed imply that by spamming that one skill Snipe, Frag, Swallow soul and what ever else those 4 players would spam at you would be no big deal, since you would just negate it all by spamming Scales.

You are taking my words out of context. It was suggested that one can get around reflective scale by waiting 4 seconds. Which is nonsense, since the wings can just be recast, and that was what my reply was about. I never suggested that i am invulnerable to ranged, only that waiting is not the solution.

No, you are tryign to make something you said sound something it wasn't. The thing went more or less the following way:

It was stated that 4 Templars spamming Radiant equals death.
This was countered by stating that any 4 players spamming something equals death, since you are outnumbered.
You said, "Uh-uh, not true, I can use scales to deal with everythin else except Radiant."

And you took that statement, and twisted it into something else(also known as the straw man fallacy): "You essentailly stated that... ...you have no issues taking on 1v4, except against Templars"

That is absolutely not what i said. Being able to deal with X is not the same as having no issues with X.
Ex: Templars can deal with incoming damage by healing themselves. That does not mean templars have no issues with any incoming damage whatsoever.

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

ZOS always has the most helpful, relevant tips.

Teach me my master how to fight challenging monsters.

AlnilamE wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Cambion wrote: »

The range is a slight issue, but not that much of one really I think. The only thing I want to know is why does the execute start at 50%? I think that the execute range of all of them should be 20%.

Because it was designed that way.

So it was designed wrong way. All range execytes should start to do increased dmg under 25% and not have that ,,increased up to" factor but just constant value. Hp falls under 25% dmg are increased by 300%. That ,,increased up to" factor should be reserved for meele executes.

Why? Because you are Melee?

Nope. Because i have eyes connected with brain.I have each class in magicka and stamina so no favours for any build.
Here take a look at execute balance now.
https://youtu.be/em46ajNfuTU

Why didn't you use Entropy with Endless Fury like you did with RD?

1st it's not my movie
2nd because in this vid RD was used 2 times, endless fury 14 times ! Adding entropy between each use of endless fury would just makes overall time to kill even longer.
3rd not every sorc using entropy.
4th rotation and animation cancelling You would need to do in that kind of mixing is harder then jesus beam spam and here we have compared just brainless spams.
5th even without entropy it would still takes 2 use of RD to kill. 2nd one in this clip killed player on 2nd tick so 2 more left.

You need to learn to move out of range or break LOS.

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

Makes finding a templar all alone even more sweet when you kill it.

I love it how nifty2g Hades the players names but shades_shibes doesn't :-)

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

You need to learn to move out of range or break LOS.

But I was dodging!!!

Good! It makes you easier to kill. You're relying on a single technique for survival.

No, your agenda is that you want a single build that will counter everything, making you the unkillable God of PVP that you think you are. Sorry, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If you are very strong in one area, then you're going to be equally as weak in another. That's life. Get over yourself.

Except I can be feared and CC locked to death before ever even getting a chance to heal. Plus my instant heals really aren't. And for that healing and Beam, I give up a ton of survivability. Plus, if I want to use my class resource management, I have to basically stand still waiting to get zerged over.

Yes, I have SOME strong abilities, but I get saddled with some strong negatives to go along with them. It's a trade off. If I want more mobility and survivability then I have to sacrifice a lot of my healing and my ranged nuking.

Pomaikai wrote: »

Except I can be feared and CC locked to death before ever even getting a chance to heal.

Right. Because the other classes can't.

Oh wait.

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If any 4 of the same class cast a ranged spell you're going to die so why would you nerf one spell when this is no different than 2 NB's or 2-3 sorcs, DKs...

No You dont if You'll dodge in proper moment or if You'll use scales , cloak etc. That's the problem You can counter other skills in some way but jesus beam only way to counter(interrupt) makes it really uncounterable in open pvp scenario.

You shouldn't be able to counter a channeled spell at range just like others can't counter other channels. Until PvP skills are completely different from PvE, you'll have to L2P each night.

The design can be interrupted tho so it's just a learn to play topic.
Other folks complain that you can't avoid NB actions....
Other folks complain Sorcs are too powerful....
Other folks complain DK have too many shields and their chains needs to be nerfed....


In the end, PvP is an environment where you're suppose to die over and over again. If you stand back or allow enemies to attack you in their desired position.....You're going to die. With any class skills, if you allow someone to catch you in their ideal circumstance, guess what, You loose.

The other issue is that many players all run the same few builds instead of mixing up things so I'll be honest. I don't like PvP and spend less than 30 mins a week since launch in all campaigns but I kill many with my Templar, Sorc and NB because I do not run any typical builds found on any websites.

You need to be aware of what you're up against and if you die to certain skills, you have to adjust your bars and gear immediately.

It's really a learn 2 play issue and not a need for any nerfs.
PvP be design according to the devs promotes group play in where if you're out numbered, you are to die. Anytime a player wipes a group by themselves, it's often a case of L2P.

If you're wiping in a larger group to a select few and their not emperor...L2P

L2P means:
-Know when to adjust and how to approach encounters. When to fight and when not to fight. To expect to die if X and Y are the circumstance as well as looking for opportunities to offset the battle when you see or experience certain things.

If you're always loosing....stop doing what you're doing immediately and don't complain....figure out what you're missing or what you can't overcome.

Well even if You would not write You spend 30 minutes per week on PvP i would easily guess that. And I also asume You're maybe playing other classes but templar for 20 of that 30 minutes. Cheers.

@juhasman
Do you have a Templar at level 50?
-The time I spend each week tells you what?
-Are you seeking feedback or is the intent just to express your frustrations in hopes of a ZOS change to this skill only?