Radiant Destruction

Minno · May 2016

Ghostbane wrote: »

Even though this will never happen, if there could be a mechanism to only have one RD on you at any given time, I'd be happy with the ability itself remaining the same.

They had that, via through all dmg from multiple RD's being shared.

That version was unintentional. And it included being dodgable.

Minno · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You don't think the people who reject the nerf arguments are't spammed by RD? Newsflash, we are. We just have learned to counter it.

^^ This. I main a templar, but I have been burned down by RD enough times to figure out how to counter it.

Do you also play a stam class who doesn't have access to any valuable shield by any chance?
Do you also play a class who doesn't have a class purge that doesn't cost 5k magicka?
Oh snap, they are increasing the cost of templar purge next patch up to 5k+.

In other words, try playing a stamina class, then talk about counterding RD.

Block?

Idinuse · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

Minno · May 2016

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

Harness magicka will soon be a viable counter against WB. Make a habit in popping an immovable pot before engaging enemies then pop the shield prior to the initial hit (shield are designed for burst defense not sustain dmg mitigation).

Ghostbane · May 2016

Minno wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Even though this will never happen, if there could be a mechanism to only have one RD on you at any given time, I'd be happy with the ability itself remaining the same.

They had that, via through all dmg from multiple RD's being shared.

That version was unintentional. And it included being dodgable.

Didn't know that, I'm down with the shared damage and it being undodgeable.

Minno · May 2016

Ghostbane wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Even though this will never happen, if there could be a mechanism to only have one RD on you at any given time, I'd be happy with the ability itself remaining the same.

They had that, via through all dmg from multiple RD's being shared.

That version was unintentional. And it included being dodgable.

Didn't know that, I'm down with the shared damage and it being undodgeable.

Except it effects pve.

Edit: link to original bug:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/242375/radiant-oppression-broken-suprise

"If you have multiple Templars using Radiant Oppression on the same target, only 1 Templar will get the FULL damage tick (outside of the already non crit ticks) while the remaining Templars will get severely reduced damage ranging from 1-9k."

Idinuse · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

Funny how you totally changed my words interpreting my meaning in a totally different way. I'll repeat my necro post from months ago for you into hopefuly more familiar words for you.

People complained that they cannot counter WB on a magplar and die easily to it. I stated that a magplar can easily counter someone spamming WB without any problems. They can also manage to win the fight if they play properly.

I've never stated anywhere that WB is working perfectly fine. Also, they are nerfing hardcore Uppercut next patch so your statement is useless at this point.

Regarding your argument of having to respec to counter WB. It is not about countering WB, it is about countering stamina based players. There are so many different ways to play a magplar. It is probably the spec with the most options.

You can go full time healer using Resto/Dual wield or Resto/Resto. Easier to keep a large group of players alive. The disadvantage : your damage and survivability are pitiful. You can go full time dps (zerger mode) using Dual Wield/One hand shield. Easier to burst a target down quickly from range. Your healing is moderate. Your survivability is pitiful (full divine pve mode). You can go hybrid using Dual Wield / One hand shield. Easier to go in melee and to burst people down in 1v1 or small scale PvP (mostly impen gear).

I won't teach you how to counter WB spammers. There are a ton of players (probably your friends aswell) who can assist you and guide you if you need informations. It won't require to change your entire build to counter one ability. Unless you are one of those pve magplars full divine who stand 41meters away from its target behind 12friends spamming javelins and beams.

This entire topic is a necroed dead horse, so?

Well this is what you said exactly in your post, incidentally beginning with "I never said...";

"frozywozy wrote: »

"I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly.

So countering Stamina players takes a quick respec, slotting a counter or a quick block even is too much of a bother for Stamina players? Blocking is perfectly functional against RD and is available with no slot needed to all players and specs.

Any argument made to RD in regards to it's range or multiple simultaneous users is valid for any 28m range under those conditions that makes the 28 meter ranged skills 41. You wouldn't survive 4 snipes from 4 different players at the same time on your horse either.

Wow. You really can't resist your urge to immediately reduce and insult people can you? I'm surprised your Templar friends, or any other friends, haven't teched you to handle and counter RD.

Ghostbane · May 2016

Minno wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Even though this will never happen, if there could be a mechanism to only have one RD on you at any given time, I'd be happy with the ability itself remaining the same.

They had that, via through all dmg from multiple RD's being shared.

That version was unintentional. And it included being dodgable.

Didn't know that, I'm down with the shared damage and it being undodgeable.

Except it effects pve.

Edit: link to original bug:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/242375/radiant-oppression-broken-suprise

"If you have multiple Templars using Radiant Oppression on the same target, only 1 Templar will get the FULL damage tick (outside of the already non crit ticks) while the remaining Templars will get severely reduced damage ranging from 1-9k."

This is why I originally said properly not possible, because the developers seems to be unwilling to figure out if the target is a player or a non-player, based on the history of not bothering to conditionally change abilities based on pvp/pve.

Idinuse · May 2016

Minno wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

Harness magicka will soon be a viable counter against WB. Make a habit in popping an immovable pot before engaging enemies then pop the shield prior to the initial hit (shield are designed for burst defense not sustain dmg mitigation).

Ah! Ok brilliant, so now I not only need to slot a skill, I need to pop a potion too to counter one skill in the game. Ok.

But serious, Immovable is in the rotation, yes. Wish there was a pot RD complainers could have to pop against RD since slotting a skill is such a chore for the Stamina builds.

And btw, I however, didn't say that I have a particular hard time against WB, it's the mantra that dodge roll is a perfectly valid counter to WB for mag builds, but at the same time Stamina builds can't be bothered just to block RD, that I was pointing at.

frozywozy · May 2016

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

I play between 3hours and 4hours every evening. I usually end up with 200-300 kills and 30 deaths. 1 death is caused by a loading screen, 1death is caused by being cced on mount, 1 death is caused by body sliding on the ground after cc breaking too quickly, 1 death is caused by unbreakable fear, 1 death is caused by health desync, 20 deaths are caused by Radiant Destruction and 5 deaths by other random skills. Not even kidding. 2/3 of my death recap is RD on a regular basis.

Idinuse wrote: »

I'm surprised your Templar friends, or any other friends, haven't teched you to handle and counter RD.

All my friends, magplars included, have a problem with RD. This is the reason why they don't play their stam class anymore and rerolled magplar and are now making videos about it wrecking 20players at a time with 2. My friends (magplars and others) also have no problem countering WB spam at all.

dodgehopper_ESO · May 2016

The only thing the complainers get from me, is that I do wish potions had a cleanse trait available to them. Its a characteristic of past TES games (Cure Disease/Cure Poison/etc) and it totally fits this game. A Cure could be the alchemical version of purge/cleansing ritual. I'm fine with that, and it totally makes sense to go up against the new poison system being released. So all I have to say to this is 'why not?'

frozywozy · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

I play between 3hours and 4hours every evening. I usually end up with 200-300 kills and 30 deaths. 1 death is caused by a loading screen, 1death is caused by being cced on mount, 1 death is caused by body sliding on the ground after cc breaking too quickly, 1 death is caused by unbreakable fear, 1 death is caused by health desync, 20 deaths are caused by Radiant Destruction and 5 deaths by other random skills. Not even kidding. 2/3 of my death recap is RD on a regular basis.

Idinuse wrote: »

I'm surprised your Templar friends, or any other friends, haven't teched you to handle and counter RD.

All my friends, magplars included, have a problem with RD. This is the reason why they don't play their stam class anymore and rerolled magplar and are now making videos about it wrecking 20players at a time with 2. My friends (magplars and others) also have no problem countering WB spam at all.

Here is why the "block RD" argument is invalid but the "block WB" is. A templar standing behind 12friends spamming RD on any character who MUST come in melee range to fight (stam nb, stamplar, stam sorc, stamdk, some mag nb, some mag dk) and then get charged by one guy can easily block the WB because first of all, that person charging the pve magplar in the back put himself in a very dangerous position. If the first WB doesn't land, usually that person will have to immediately disengage, LoS or dodge roll away or he would get zerged down.

On the other hand, a stam class who is forced to fight in melee put himself in a situation where he gets alot of attention. He is on the front line of the battle and is at risk of being engaged by multiple opponents as soon as he charges one. Blocking a RD cast puts you in extreme danger because while you're blocking, your stamina gets drained super quickly, especially when you don't use one hand shield. Also, since most stam classes cannot relay on any shield and don't have high magic / physical damage mitigation, they still get hit really hard.

Dodge rolling + high weapon damage + high stamina and heals are the only way to survive for a stam class. People who don't run with high weapon damage (like people who run sets that provide bonus to the party) or people who aren't reguards cannot benefit from those high 4.2k vigor ticks so their only way to survive is by dodge rolling. If I stop 2-3seconds to block, it means my death right away.

This is why blocking is not an option to counter RD but it is to counter WB.

ForsakenSin · May 2016

"I play between 3hours and 4hours every evening. I usually end up with 200-300 kills and 30 deaths. 1 death is caused by a loading screen, 1death is caused by being cced on mount, 1 death is caused by body sliding on the ground after cc breaking too quickly, 1 death is caused by unbreakable fear, 1 death is caused by health desync, 20 deaths are caused by Radiant Destruction and 5 deaths by other random skills. Not even kidding. 2/3 of my death recap is RD on a regular basis."

Just to get this right , your complaining that because of RD you K/D is not as you said 300-10?

So you are that good that OP that nothing can kill you and one thing that apparently can kill you, you want it to be nerferd if that's the case .. " slow clap" for you

Aaaa yes so you are playing StamDK for a stam DK that is able to kill 200-300 people within 3-4h and only die 10 times shouldn't everybody saying that your skills ect are OP and calling it to be nerferd ?

maxjapank · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

I play between 3hours and 4hours every evening. I usually end up with 200-300 kills and 30 deaths. 1 death is caused by a loading screen, 1death is caused by being cced on mount, 1 death is caused by body sliding on the ground after cc breaking too quickly, 1 death is caused by unbreakable fear, 1 death is caused by health desync, 20 deaths are caused by Radiant Destruction and 5 deaths by other random skills. Not even kidding. 2/3 of my death recap is RD on a regular basis.

Idinuse wrote: »

I'm surprised your Templar friends, or any other friends, haven't teched you to handle and counter RD.

All my friends, magplars included, have a problem with RD. This is the reason why they don't play their stam class anymore and rerolled magplar and are now making videos about it wrecking 20players at a time with 2. My friends (magplars and others) also have no problem countering WB spam at all.

Here is why the "block RD" argument is invalid but the "block WB" is. A templar standing behind 12friends spamming RD on any character who MUST come in melee range to fight (stam nb, stamplar, stam sorc, stamdk, some mag nb, some mag dk) and then get charged by one guy can easily block the WB because first of all, that person charging the pve magplar in the back put himself in a very dangerous position. If the first WB doesn't land, usually that person will have to immediately disengage, LoS or dodge roll away or he would get zerged down.

On the other hand, a stam class who is forced to fight in melee put himself in a situation where he gets alot of attention. He is on the front line of the battle and is at risk of being engaged by multiple opponents as soon as he charges one. Blocking a RD cast puts you in extreme danger because while you're blocking, your stamina gets drained super quickly, especially when you don't use one hand shield. Also, since most stam classes cannot relay on any shield and don't have high magic / physical damage mitigation, they still get hit really hard.

Dodge rolling + high weapon damage + high stamina and heals are the only way to survive for a stam class. People who don't run with high weapon damage (like people who run sets that provide bonus to the party) or people who aren't reguards cannot benefit from those high 4.2k vigor ticks so their only way to survive is by dodge rolling. If I stop 2-3seconds to block, it means my death right away.

This is why blocking is not an option to counter RD but it is to counter WB.

You sure make a lot of excuses. /smh

Van_0S · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

I play between 3hours and 4hours every evening. I usually end up with 200-300 kills and 30 deaths. 1 death is caused by a loading screen, 1death is caused by being cced on mount, 1 death is caused by body sliding on the ground after cc breaking too quickly, 1 death is caused by unbreakable fear, 1 death is caused by health desync, 20 deaths are caused by Radiant Destruction and 5 deaths by other random skills. Not even kidding. 2/3 of my death recap is RD on a regular basis.

Idinuse wrote: »

I'm surprised your Templar friends, or any other friends, haven't teched you to handle and counter RD.

All my friends, magplars included, have a problem with RD. This is the reason why they don't play their stam class anymore and rerolled magplar and are now making videos about it wrecking 20players at a time with 2. My friends (magplars and others) also have no problem countering WB spam at all.

Here is why the "block RD" argument is invalid but the "block WB" is. A templar standing behind 12friends spamming RD on any character who MUST come in melee range to fight (stam nb, stamplar, stam sorc, stamdk, some mag nb, some mag dk) and then get charged by one guy can easily block the WB because first of all, that person charging the pve magplar in the back put himself in a very dangerous position. If the first WB doesn't land, usually that person will have to immediately disengage, LoS or dodge roll away or he would get zerged down.

On the other hand, a stam class who is forced to fight in melee put himself in a situation where he gets alot of attention. He is on the front line of the battle and is at risk of being engaged by multiple opponents as soon as he charges one. Blocking a RD cast puts you in extreme danger because while you're blocking, your stamina gets drained super quickly, especially when you don't use one hand shield. Also, since most stam classes cannot relay on any shield and don't have high magic / physical damage mitigation, they still get hit really hard.

Dodge rolling + high weapon damage + high stamina and heals are the only way to survive for a stam class. People who don't run with high weapon damage (like people who run sets that provide bonus to the party) or people who aren't reguards cannot benefit from those high 4.2k vigor ticks so their only way to survive is by dodge rolling. If I stop 2-3seconds to block, it means my death right away.

This is why blocking is not an option to counter RD but it is to counter WB.

What about
MagNB bombing VD ?
You can't block it neither know where they are ?
StamNB cloak snipe?
Dk dragon leap+WB?
Sorc shield stacking+ curse+crystal frags?

These classes all have some good spammable abilities

So, let RD remain as it is because cyrodiil is all about spamming abilities by killing x numbers with lag zerg trains.

Minno · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

I play between 3hours and 4hours every evening. I usually end up with 200-300 kills and 30 deaths. 1 death is caused by a loading screen, 1death is caused by being cced on mount, 1 death is caused by body sliding on the ground after cc breaking too quickly, 1 death is caused by unbreakable fear, 1 death is caused by health desync, 20 deaths are caused by Radiant Destruction and 5 deaths by other random skills. Not even kidding. 2/3 of my death recap is RD on a regular basis.

Idinuse wrote: »

I'm surprised your Templar friends, or any other friends, haven't teched you to handle and counter RD.

All my friends, magplars included, have a problem with RD. This is the reason why they don't play their stam class anymore and rerolled magplar and are now making videos about it wrecking 20players at a time with 2. My friends (magplars and others) also have no problem countering WB spam at all.

Here is why the "block RD" argument is invalid but the "block WB" is. A templar standing behind 12friends spamming RD on any character who MUST come in melee range to fight (stam nb, stamplar, stam sorc, stamdk, some mag nb, some mag dk) and then get charged by one guy can easily block the WB because first of all, that person charging the pve magplar in the back put himself in a very dangerous position. If the first WB doesn't land, usually that person will have to immediately disengage, LoS or dodge roll away or he would get zerged down.

On the other hand, a stam class who is forced to fight in melee put himself in a situation where he gets alot of attention. He is on the front line of the battle and is at risk of being engaged by multiple opponents as soon as he charges one. Blocking a RD cast puts you in extreme danger because while you're blocking, your stamina gets drained super quickly, especially when you don't use one hand shield. Also, since most stam classes cannot relay on any shield and don't have high magic / physical damage mitigation, they still get hit really hard.

Dodge rolling + high weapon damage + high stamina and heals are the only way to survive for a stam class. People who don't run with high weapon damage (like people who run sets that provide bonus to the party) or people who aren't reguards cannot benefit from those high 4.2k vigor ticks so their only way to survive is by dodge rolling. If I stop 2-3seconds to block, it means my death right away.

This is why blocking is not an option to counter RD but it is to counter WB.

The game is intended for your choices in builds to have several pros/cons with risk/reward for each decision.

A stam builds greatest counters exist as:
1) sword+board for increased block cost reduction + increased dmg mitigation via block.
2) bow line for ranged interupts and dodge roll speed buff to readjust position.
3) two hander for rally heals or forward momentum snare removal to help escape
4) dual weld for quick cloak movement buff.

On top of that stam users have a way to regen stamina and increase weapon dmg via medium armor. It also reduces sprint cost. Therefore you can reposition easier than some builds.

Your statements prove the current stam meta refuses to integrate these counters. And I'm willing to bet it's because most players refuse to retest/recraft their gear.

frozywozy · May 2016

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

Minno · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

Yea but like a good player the objective is to kite those players to a space you can engage at your advantage. Those templars are killing you because you are zerg diving without having a build dedicated to doing that, especially as a paper-armor melee attacker.

If 10 templars are spamming dark flare, do you engage still? But because you are a DK with the best reflect in the game, you have the skill slotted to deal with many ranged attacks. The same argument applies in that should dark flare be nerfed if you ate all those spells because you refused to slot your DK wings?

Learn the counters, adapt, and worst case scenario = pick a new build/bar setup.

maxjapank · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Nuff said

...and the mic dropped, echoing in the empty room...

Bofrari · May 2016

Yiko wrote: »

JDC1985 wrote: »

Here is was is stange to me

This is your 5th consecutive post, and this is how you top it off. It's like you're 4 years old or something

What's your point there is nothing wrong with RD it's your lack of skills of defense. Also you say I'm 4 years old if that's the case then a 4 year old is out playing you.

Jules · May 2016

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

The cleanses in the game are strictly magicka.
And the lethality of RD isn't from range, (I dont even understand how anyone could think this...) it's from the fact that it scales off of two mechanics, targets health and users cast-time magicka. Reducing its range is a reasonable middle ground that leaves the skill still totally viable, as well as its counters.

frozywozy · May 2016

maxjapank wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Nuff said

...and the mic dropped, echoing in the empty room...

Sounds like you ran out of arguments.

maxjapank · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

The cleanses in the game are strictly magicka.
And the lethality of RD isn't from range, (I dont even understand how anyone could think this...) it's from the fact that it scales off of two mechanics, targets health and users cast-time magicka. Reducing its range is a reasonable middle ground that leaves the skill still totally viable, as well as its counters.

Yawn. If you're gonna reduce the range, may as well make it instant. Like Impale. Or better yet, let's all re-roll Nightblades.

Lyar09 · May 2016

https://media.giphy.com/media/119SFXjoMsax6o/giphy.gif

PLEASEEEEEE

Inarre · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

The thing everyone seems to have forgotten is if a templar is jesus beaming you from twenty eight meters away its quite simple as a stam character to run.... One meter... In the opposite direction >.>

Do your rally vigor, pot whatever then come back.

frozywozy · May 2016

Inarre wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

The thing everyone seems to have forgotten is if a templar is jesus beaming you from twenty eight meters away its quite simple as a stam character to run.... One meter... In the opposite direction >.>

Do your rally vigor, pot whatever then come back.

When I say that the templar can beam from 41meters away, it doesn't indicate that I fight 41meters away from him. What it means is that he has the possibility to attack someone from 41meters away and with the latency, sometimes the beam will even go further. But I think we both knew what I was reffering to but you were just arguing for the sake of arguing.

The point I am making is that by the time I charge someone in the frontline, first of all, I barely have any time to apply pressure and I must already consider defending myself if the first attack missed. Then by charging in, I am already too close to those pve magplars to even consider running away. All it takes usually is one CC when I'm between 70% and 50% hps and I'm done.

I'll try to think about using vigor, rally and pots. Thanks for the advice. I just realized I don't have Rally on my bar, my Vigor isn't morphed and I'm still using v1 pots.

Minno · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

The point that most people don't seem to understand is that a stam build is forced to engage in melee combat (in most scenarios exposing himself to multiple enemies) while the templar can easily stand in the back and spam javelin and beam from 41meters wearing full pve gear and be perfectly fine. Range needs to be adjusted. Nuff said

The thing everyone seems to have forgotten is if a templar is jesus beaming you from twenty eight meters away its quite simple as a stam character to run.... One meter... In the opposite direction >.>

Do your rally vigor, pot whatever then come back.

When I say that the templar can beam from 41meters away, it doesn't indicate that I fight 41meters away from him. What it means is that he has the possibility to attack someone from 41meters away and with the latency, sometimes the beam will even go further. But I think we both knew what I was reffering to but you were just arguing for the sake of arguing.

The point I am making is that by the time I charge someone in the frontline, first of all, I barely have any time to apply pressure and I must already consider defending myself if the first attack missed. Then by charging in, I am already too close to those pve magplars to even consider running away. All it takes usually is one CC when I'm between 70% and 50% hps and I'm done.

I'll try to think about using vigor, rally and pots. Thanks for the advice. I just realized I don't have Rally on my bar, my Vigor isn't morphed and I'm still using v1 pots.

"Increases range of all abilities with greater than 15m range by 5 meters while near a keep." Reach passive from assault skill line which means templars around a keep (assuming it's their keep) makes the max range actually 33m.

But that also effects all other ranged abilities that are 28m. So not a reason to nerf the range.

And lag is lag.

Idinuse · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So in your previous post you state that RD being a channel is of no issue to Templars, as we feel rooted by it, we can simply block out of it, yet this isn't a valid counter to RD for anyone being hit by it (they feel rooted by having to block RD). Anyone can block RD as much as they can dodge roll a WB. But for mag builds that just spent a good chunk of the stamina pool to break the never ending and eternal CC there seldom is much Stamina left to dodge roll the WB. Not the first not the eventuall second and not the following Executioner.

From a (a general) dodge roll spam perspective I understand that it can be hard to see the perspective of other builds and that the core of the current face roll meta should present a problem for anyone might then come as a surprise.

Purge isn't the only cleanse in the game, and anyone not prepared to have some sort of cleanse at hand when DB hits live might be in for a surprise.

RD lethality from its range is no more of a threat to a target around 20-25 percent than a Snipe or Poison or Lethal arrow or an 11k frag, at least it doesn't CC you with each tick. Anyone getting hit under conditions usually mentioned in RD nerf posts, low health and under multiple attackers, will get killed. Except when hit by RD you want to be certain not to die to it under the very same conditions because you can't be bothered with blocking.

Now if perma dodging every single skill in the game is so important for some to be able to fully enjoy their invincibility, why not block the RD then do your dodge roll and if required repeat. You don't have to block the entire duration and while at it, block cast is an option for many, RD casters not being one of them.

I have no idea what people that have problems with RD do, but I have RD as a non Killing Blow skill on my death caps maybe 5-7 times in a 6hr game session and as a KB maybe 3 times, I often get hit by 3+ beams at the same time.

Now the most usual KBs on my death caps on the other hand, these I'd like to have a nerf discussion about.

The cleanses in the game are strictly magicka.
And the lethality of RD isn't from range, (I dont even understand how anyone could think this...) it's from the fact that it scales off of two mechanics, targets health and users cast-time magicka. Reducing its range is a reasonable middle ground that leaves the skill still totally viable, as well as its counters.

There's nothing hindering any Stamina build to use a magic skill as a magicka dump. Are you seriously not going to do anything about the poison coming with DB? Or are you going to rely on group members to purge you from it? Well, that'll work for RD too. The counters to i.e. WB are stamina based. You know I use both rapids (oh, which by the way is a Stamina based purge) and cals, each cost over 7K stamina for me, and I still have to use up Stamina dodge rolling and blocking. So? That a counter is magicka based when you are a Stam build has to be the weakest argument for RD not having counters, well right after blocking isn't viable because it makes the blocker feel rooted for 2-3 seconds, even though a quick block is sufficient to block one or more RD rays.

So the lethality isn't from range...but the range needs to be reduced... Uh. Well at least you've established that the range isn't a problem with RD.

AfkNinja · May 2016

Jules wrote: »

The cleanses in the game are strictly magicka.
And the lethality of RD isn't from range, (I dont even understand how anyone could think this...)

So reducing it's range wont help then.

it's from the fact that it scales off of two mechanics, targets health and users cast-time magicka. Reducing its range is a reasonable middle ground that leaves the skill still totally viable, as well as its counters.

There are also 2 CP to defend against it, this is not a valid argument. Above 50% HP it is a low DPS skill even with full magicka. People are running around with low HP and then complaining when they get executed. Most of the dmg in the recap is wasted overflow dmg, take that out and the Skill isn't even doing that much dmg! It looks much worse than it is cause the death recap has all that wasted dmg there as if it did something when it didn't.

Idinuse · May 2016

ForsakenSin wrote: »

"I play between 3hours and 4hours every evening. I usually end up with 200-300 kills and 30 deaths. 1 death is caused by a loading screen, 1death is caused by being cced on mount, 1 death is caused by body sliding on the ground after cc breaking too quickly, 1 death is caused by unbreakable fear, 1 death is caused by health desync, 20 deaths are caused by Radiant Destruction and 5 deaths by other random skills. Not even kidding. 2/3 of my death recap is RD on a regular basis."

Just to get this right , your complaining that because of RD you K/D is not as you said 300-10?

So you are that good that OP that nothing can kill you and one thing that apparently can kill you, you want it to be nerferd if that's the case .. " slow clap" for you

Aaaa yes so you are playing StamDK for a stam DK that is able to kill 200-300 people within 3-4h and only die 10 times shouldn't everybody saying that your skills ect are OP and calling it to be nerferd ?

That has to be one of the strongest arguments against a nerf to RD if ever I saw one lol!