Radiant Destruction

frozywozy

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

pogopwns_ESO wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

pogopwns_ESO wrote: »

I gave you fgts my @name hit me up. I'll play on any class against you. apparently Im inexperienced because I think RD is a little OP. idgaf hmu in game. you're so tough in forums lol

You sound like a teenager because of the way you talk. You sound inexperienced because you made wholly inaccurate statements about no other skill being unavoidable other than LoS/invis (meteor and soul assault as ults, invigorating drain as regular skill) and pretended like the other counters to Jesus beam (purge/purify/interrupt/bash/stun) didnt exist. You also made a false claim that a single WB and Jesus beam would kill people, and I volunteered to have you demonstrate such a feat because we both know it was hyperbole and you'd need to hit my 30k hp healer for a 20k WB to be able kill me before I CC break and heal. You're entitled to think Jesus beam is overperforming, you're not entitled to think you can get free passes making blatantly false or exaggerated statements.

yes, I made an exaggerated claim, but the point is valid, Zheg. I have stood there and jesus beamed a full health target. he gets hit with a wb or 2 and I get a KB. for real too easy. thats my point.

The point is not valid because a glass cannon sorc hitting you with fury, curse, frags (in less time than a jesus beam mind you) after someone uses WB wil do even more dmg. A nb gap closing in with a prox det and concealed wep would do the same.

You can pretend like there's more skill in doing the above, but there really isn't. In fact, I'd rather have a Jesus beam on me instead of a sorc because it's easier to deal with.

As with the other 10 threads on this skill, I've still yet to see a strong argument for why it's OP compared to what every other class can do, nor even a half-decent argument for why this should be such a high priority when there is a cornucopia of legitimately broken and OP crap to choose from.

You are right Zheg, all those 10 threads were made by L2P players who have no idea what's going on and who should listen to your ultimate thruth.

Ok so we're all on the same page now?

/closethread

Yep we're cool. I trust your words as much as I believe in Wrobel's decision regarding the AOE cap thread. Everybody there are irrelevant and have no idea how the system actually work. He and he only knows the best for all of us.

AfkNinja

pogopwns_ESO wrote: »

yes, I made an exaggerated claim, but the point is valid, Zheg. I have stood there and jesus beamed a full health target. he gets hit with a wb or 2 and I get a KB. for real too easy. thats my point.

So your whole point, and the basis for your argument of RD being OP is that in a 2v1 or 3v1 or 4v1 it's too easy to kill someone? You realize literally every class can do this yes? And that ZOS has repeatedly said they don't want you to win 1vX's which is why they keep nerfing builds that can.

I find it striking that in ALL of these posts not one person claiming it's OP has provided a detailed combat log to show individual ticks of RD damage. They only show the final damage and I think the reason for that is they realize that a lot of the dmg is "wasted overflow dmg" and it doesn't support their argument.

If RD is so OP that it's easy to see and we're all morons for not seeing it then just prove it. Surely something so OP is super easy to prove. I mean, we all agree Proxy/VD bombs are OP and there are tons of screen caps of combat logs proving it, so if RD is so OP just prove it.

Good luck, I'm just playing devils advocate. I also would love to see Zheg fight you, please post up the video even though it proves nothing.

Vangy

RD is annoying... I cant seem to decide if its OP or not. But it is truly annoying as *** lol... Even post change, it kinda sucks in a 1v1.

In a 1v1: this ability has some kind of "wind up" time. Most executes like mages wrath or executioner do their damage upfront and almost instantaneously with proper animation cancelling. RD has this weird pause before that beam starts channelling which sucksssss... Also anyone can just bash/interrupt this. In a 1v1 its not that its just not good, its actually dangerous to use cos of how vulnerable you become while casting this.

In group fights: God this ability is annoying and seemingly has no counter lol. Its like I can spam dodge roll or something against other executes when im at low life to rolly polly away to safety or LOS. But when the opponent group has a templar or 2, the only solution is "dont get low" lol. Or try to focus down their templars first. (which you should be doing anyway cos 99% chance that they are healers). In huge fights I just see templars throwing this against any1 and anything hoping that the target takes enough damage in the commotion to get a free kill lol.

RD is still a badly designed ability. In most situations its still as useless as ever and in group situations, it can be insanely frustrating for the target. Its only effective and OP as a zerg monkey spam skill. Any legit player in small scale or 1v1 is going to make you pay for thinking you can sit there and J-beam their face.

GaldorP

So... compared to Impale, Radiant Destruction has a much higher range, ticks faster than you can chain-cast Impale, and has an execute range that starts at 40% target Health instead of 25%, and the damage per tick is about the same as Impale has on a single use? Sounds like a lot of benefits for the only drawback of being a channel skill. I think at least the range should be reduced to match Impale's (or the damage needs to be lowered, sorry).

Correct me if I'm wrong please (currently can't log into the game to check the skill descriptions)

Joy_Division

GaldorP wrote: »

So... compared to Impale, Radiant Destruction has a much higher range, ticks faster than you can chain-cast Impale, and has an execute range that starts at 40% target Health instead of 25%, and the damage per tick is about the same as Impale has on a single use? Sounds like a lot of benefits for the only drawback of being a channel skill. I think at least the range should be reduced to match Impale's (or the damage needs to be lowered, sorry).

Correct me if I'm wrong please (currently can't log into the game to check the skill descriptions)

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Impale is a insta-cast skill, RD is not.

Impale can be blockcasted. RD cannot.

Impale can be animation canceled with a basic attack. RD cannot.

RD has a escalating damage scale (which does not start at 40% btw). Impale does not.

RD's damage is not instantaneous. Impale's is and delivers it's damage all at once.

RD can be interrupted. Impale cannot.

RD is not just an execute. Impale is just an execute.

RD can be cleansed/purged and LOSed. Impale cannot.

Impale can be dodge. RD cannot.

Stop comparing these skills with totally different mechanics and thinking they should behave similarly.

If you want to claim that impale is not a particularly good skill, I'll agree. But this game is full of meh skills in every skill line.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

GaldorP wrote: »

So... compared to Impale, Radiant Destruction has a much higher range, ticks faster than you can chain-cast Impale, and has an execute range that starts at 40% target Health instead of 25%, and the damage per tick is about the same as Impale has on a single use? Sounds like a lot of benefits for the only drawback of being a channel skill. I think at least the range should be reduced to match Impale's (or the damage needs to be lowered, sorry).

Correct me if I'm wrong please (currently can't log into the game to check the skill descriptions)

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Impale is a insta-cast skill, RD is not.

Impale can be blockcasted. RD cannot.

Impale can be animation canceled with a basic attack. RD cannot.

RD has a escalating damage scale (which does not start at 40% btw). Impale does not.

RD's damage is not instantaneous. Impale's is and delivers it's damage all at once.

RD can be interrupted. Impale cannot.

RD is not just an execute. Impale is just an execute.

RD can be cleansed/purged and LOSed. Impale cannot.

Impale can be dodge. RD cannot.

Stop comparing these skills with totally different mechanics and thinking they should behave similarly.

If you want to claim that impale is not a particularly good skill, I'll agree. But this game is full of meh skills in every skill line.

Destyran

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

" BY JOVE! THIS MAGICKA TEMPLAR HAS A WORKING OFFENSIVE ABILITY! NERF PLEASE GOOD SIR/MADAM "

It puts people in a rage when Templars have something that works D;

All you hear is bad players saying wahh i cant 1 v x when there is a templar casting a channel and im not running a interrupt because why should i have to when.... Oh god i suck at 1v x NERF JESUS BEAM!!!!!!!!!

Jules

The more I consider this skill, the more I recognize some of the points that magplar makes.
At this point I think its important to really narrow down what people have the most problem with and go from there. No need to nerf the skill into absolute oblivion, that is not balance. Making it dodgeable would do this, and so would nerfing the damage too much.

There are two aspects that people despise about RD. The fact that it can be casted out of range of most abilities, and the fact that it has two different scaling mechanisms. Small tweaks to either of these would bring the skill within range of balance of others.

People constantly argue that RD makes the caster vulnerable, I think if anyone is honest with themselves, it really does not. It is as simple to get out of as pressing your right mouse button and blocking. Sure it is a channel, but literally, just block and you are not longer in that state. That is not true vulnerability.


Imo, leave it undodgeable, leave it at the same damage. In order to bring the skill in line with others, two options.

1. Increase the amount of ticks the skill does, so that it does smaller more frequent ticks over its channel time, keeping the overall damage the same.
2. Decrease the range of the skill so it can potentially be gap closed and interrupted.

Idinuse

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

KisoValley

Problem with RD is that it is a standard damage ability that is also an execute (which can be used from 1 side of the map to the other lol...). No other execute deals the damage RD does outside of execute range. I understand it is a channelled ability but its damage outside of execute range is still a joke.

As for 1v1's? I don't see many people running an execute as it is in any class, at least on EU. Not sure what people run in NA.

Waiting on the L2P replies

Zheg

Jules wrote: »

The more I consider this skill, the more I recognize some of the points that magplar makes.
At this point I think its important to really narrow down what people have the most problem with and go from there. No need to nerf the skill into absolute oblivion, that is not balance. Making it dodgeable would do this, and so would nerfing the damage too much.

There are two aspects that people despise about RD. The fact that it can be casted out of range of most abilities, and the fact that it has two different scaling mechanisms. Small tweaks to either of these would bring the skill within range of balance of others.

People constantly argue that RD makes the caster vulnerable, I think if anyone is honest with themselves, it really does not. It is as simple to get out of as pressing your right mouse button and blocking. Sure it is a channel, but literally, just block and you are not longer in that state. That is not true vulnerability.


Imo, leave it undodgeable, leave it at the same damage. In order to bring the skill in line with others, two options.

1. Increase the amount of ticks the skill does, so that it does smaller more frequent ticks over its channel time, keeping the overall damage the same.
2. Decrease the range of the skill so it can potentially be gap closed and interrupted.

What a sober post.

On the vulnerability - it's not so much the chance to be interrupted, I find the vulnerability to come from the innate snare it gives the caster, the inability to block cast, and the dead giveaway that you should be a priority target for everyone to focus fire.

When it comes to the gap closer argument, this one I'm solidly against as a potential balance change. The people spamming it behind groups will still do so, but allowing gap closers as a counter will mean that in 1v1 and small scale - where the skill is highly counterable if you're playing well, it will allow melee builds a free counter without ever having to consider slotting a ranged interrupt or stun. Even though I derped the last time on the range of Reach, I'd be happy to see the range of jesus beam be higher than gap closers but lower than the threshold for the Reach passive multiplier (maybe the 15 m range of reach needs to go up to 28 and the range of Jesus beam dropped ever so slightly to something like 27? Every ranged skill I can think of as a templar would be unaffected, not sure how this would impact other classes).

If we're looking for a change, I'd first push for the Radiant Oppression morph to be changed to something else so it isn't scaling with remaining magicka, but instead providing some other benefit and at the same time giving me a reason to consider taking the healing returned morph.

Jules

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

Inarre

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So the issue as you say it is more the whole concept of melee vs caster.

Caster= long range channel
Melee= close range burst

Melees have problems reaching casters to interrupt/do damage

Casters have trouble defending themselves in range of melee.

Id say those are both true and balancing. When it comes to this its about area awareness and positioning regardless of the skill being used.

Lyar09

I hate you all hahaha just let it goooooooo

KisoValley

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

The more I consider this skill, the more I recognize some of the points that magplar makes.
At this point I think its important to really narrow down what people have the most problem with and go from there. No need to nerf the skill into absolute oblivion, that is not balance. Making it dodgeable would do this, and so would nerfing the damage too much.

There are two aspects that people despise about RD. The fact that it can be casted out of range of most abilities, and the fact that it has two different scaling mechanisms. Small tweaks to either of these would bring the skill within range of balance of others.

People constantly argue that RD makes the caster vulnerable, I think if anyone is honest with themselves, it really does not. It is as simple to get out of as pressing your right mouse button and blocking. Sure it is a channel, but literally, just block and you are not longer in that state. That is not true vulnerability.


Imo, leave it undodgeable, leave it at the same damage. In order to bring the skill in line with others, two options.

1. Increase the amount of ticks the skill does, so that it does smaller more frequent ticks over its channel time, keeping the overall damage the same.
2. Decrease the range of the skill so it can potentially be gap closed and interrupted.

What a sober post.

On the vulnerability - it's not so much the chance to be interrupted, I find the vulnerability to come from the innate snare it gives the caster, the inability to block cast, and the dead giveaway that you should be a priority target for everyone to focus fire.

When it comes to the gap closer argument, this one I'm solidly against as a potential balance change. The people spamming it behind groups will still do so, but allowing gap closers as a counter will mean that in 1v1

I haven't met 1 EU Magplar use RD in a 1v1, vs any other build, not sure whether EU Magplars are using it. It is fine in 1v1's because you're not fighting from opposite sides of the map so it is possible to interrupt. But in small scale and when you're being zerged down? I love it when I can't even gap close to 1 guy then try to gapclose to the 1 - 5 Magplars spamming it because they're still all out of range and on top of that you're taking the damage of a standard DPS ability at 100% health and then the execute at 50%.

Jules

Inarre wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

So the issue as you say it is more the whole concept of melee vs caster.

Caster= long range channel
Melee= close range burst

Melees have problems reaching casters to interrupt/do damage

Casters have trouble defending themselves in range of melee.

Id say those are both true and balancing. When it comes to this its about area awareness and positioning regardless of the skill being used.

"Melee have problems reaching casters" - fine. But this is not the same as casters being altogether unreachable due to the insane range.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

WBs range is unrealistic. You can hit people 2-3 body lengths away from you with a weapon equal to 1 body lenght. I have no issue witht that because there are ways to counter. Same as RD.

This all reminds me of when soul assault was tearing people up. People were saying it needed to be nerfed. Instead people learned to counter. learning ways to counter and adjust is better for gameplay than giving people a pass cause they are either too stupid or too lazy to figure it out.

No doubt RD is powerful but like every other claim for a nerf. There are a lot of powerful abilities in the game for all classes and builds. Either we accept that or in the end we all end up with shittty abilities.

Joy_Division

I'm still not sure why it is OK for sorcerers to have all of their skills castable outside of melee gap close range but special allowances need to be made for people who willfully focus their build on melee so that they can ensure their narrowly specialized builds can counter templars.

DisgracefulMind

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

I'd be fine with a slight range reduction on RD. I think everything else about the skill is fine.

But let's be honest, every decent player should have a gap closer on their bar anyways. A well-rounded player will always choose their skills based on what will allow them to handle the most situations. We have only 4 classes in this game - we should all be prepared to take on any of them at any given time. Even if that means giving up a slot for purge or w/e. It's about adapting, in my opinion.

And I agree, with the wrecking blow changes coming, there should be nothing to complain about in regards to the skill anyways.

Father_X_Zombie

via Imgflip Meme Maker

dodgehopper_ESO

AddictionX wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

It appears that there are two types of skills dedicated to "low-heath" mechanics:

(1) "execute" skill: instant, combo oriented.
(2) DPS with low health bonus: based on overall health like executes but with strict counters and situational mechanics.

Execute skills:

-(all stam classes) Executioner- "Spin around and strike an enemy down, dealing [x] Physical Damage plus up to 300% more against enemies with less than 50% Health.
While slotted, Two-Handed abilities deal 18% extra damage to low health targets.
While slotted: Weapon abilities deal more damage to low health targets."
Dmg oriented, instant cast, has passive that increases skill dmg. AC friendly.

- (Nightblade only) Impale - "Thrust a magic blade with a lethal precision to stab an enemy for [x] Magic Damage.
Causes 300% more damage to targets with 25% Heath or less remaining.
Ability may be used at range."
Only execute that has both mag/stam morphs. Ranged morph (Impale) clearly designed as instant and ranged. AC friendly.

- (magicka sorc's only) Endless Fury- "Call down lighting to strike an enemy for [x] Shock Damage.
If target enemy’s Health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional [y] Shock Damage to the target and [z] Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Explosion deals more damage."
Not sure if AC friendly but it's instant cast ability.

,


Low health DPS:

- (DK only) Molten Armaments- "Charge your weapons with volcanic power to temporarily increase the damage of your fully charged heavy attacks by 40% for 8 seconds, with damage increased further by 150% against targets below 50% Health.
Damage bonus is increased against low health targets.".
Very strict situation; must use full heavy attack. But has a main dps component (useful for stam builds or fire staff builds)

- (templar only) Radiant destruction- "Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing Magic Damage over 3 seconds.
Deals up to 20% additional damage in proportion to your current Magicka.
Targets with less than 50% Health take up to 330% additional damage.
Can critically hit.
Damage increased based on current Magicka."
Reason we are here. Take away the " execute" phase bonus and you have a DPS ability that requires max magicka to scale its primary dmg. Has the most counters due to interrupt abilities available (range and close).

- (all classes) Whirling Blades- "Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing [x] Physical Damage to nearby enemies plus up to 100% additional damage against wounded targets, based on their remaining Health.
Also grants Major Endurance, increasing Stamina Recovery by 20% for 10 seconds.
Grants Major Endurance and reduced cost"

AOE based, poor single target ability. additional dmg component based on remaining health pool (no percentage mentioned). Group situations only.

-(all stam classes) Poison Injection- "Shoot an arrow coated in Baandari poison, dealing [x] Poison Damage and an additional [y] Poison Damage over 10 seconds.
Damage over time is increased for enemies with under 50% Health.
Poison effect deals more damage vs low Health enemies.
Main attack AC friendly, but execute initiates only when the DOT ticks. Very situational and build dependant.

And most people forget templar's jabs used to give 70% more crit on low health targets. This means it was always ZOS intention to see the DPS of templars to use channels with high risk, high reward DPS (dark flare, total dark, RD, jabs).

Hey man by the way the DK molten armaments morph was changed.... It grants a buff to major sorcery and major brutality and fully charged heavy attacks keep the 40 percent extra damage but it no longer does execute damage and last for 30 seconds(40 if you got the passives)

I really miss the high execute heavy attack damage on this skill.

KisoValley

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

I'd be fine with a slight range reduction on RD. I think everything else about the skill is fine.

But let's be honest, every decent player should have a gap closer on their bar anyways. A well-rounded player will always choose their skills based on what will allow them to handle the most situations. We have only 4 classes in this game - we should all be prepared to take on any of them at any given time. Even if that means giving up a slot for purge or w/e. It's about adapting, in my opinion.

And I agree, with the wrecking blow changes coming, there should be nothing to complain about in regards to the skill anyways.

I can't wait for the day you experience 5 templars hitting you from Dragonclaw while you've just mounted coming out of Blackboot.

I also don't see why you have to adapt to RD but not any other skill like WB with a skill slot.

Minno

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

It appears that there are two types of skills dedicated to "low-heath" mechanics:

(1) "execute" skill: instant, combo oriented.
(2) DPS with low health bonus: based on overall health like executes but with strict counters and situational mechanics.

Execute skills:

-(all stam classes) Executioner- "Spin around and strike an enemy down, dealing [x] Physical Damage plus up to 300% more against enemies with less than 50% Health.
While slotted, Two-Handed abilities deal 18% extra damage to low health targets.
While slotted: Weapon abilities deal more damage to low health targets."
Dmg oriented, instant cast, has passive that increases skill dmg. AC friendly.

- (Nightblade only) Impale - "Thrust a magic blade with a lethal precision to stab an enemy for [x] Magic Damage.
Causes 300% more damage to targets with 25% Heath or less remaining.
Ability may be used at range."
Only execute that has both mag/stam morphs. Ranged morph (Impale) clearly designed as instant and ranged. AC friendly.

- (magicka sorc's only) Endless Fury- "Call down lighting to strike an enemy for [x] Shock Damage.
If target enemy’s Health falls below 20% within 4 seconds, an explosion deals an additional [y] Shock Damage to the target and [z] Shock Damage to other enemies nearby.
Explosion deals more damage."
Not sure if AC friendly but it's instant cast ability.

,


Low health DPS:

- (DK only) Molten Armaments- "Charge your weapons with volcanic power to temporarily increase the damage of your fully charged heavy attacks by 40% for 8 seconds, with damage increased further by 150% against targets below 50% Health.
Damage bonus is increased against low health targets.".
Very strict situation; must use full heavy attack. But has a main dps component (useful for stam builds or fire staff builds)

- (templar only) Radiant destruction- "Burn an enemy with a ray of holy fire, dealing Magic Damage over 3 seconds.
Deals up to 20% additional damage in proportion to your current Magicka.
Targets with less than 50% Health take up to 330% additional damage.
Can critically hit.
Damage increased based on current Magicka."
Reason we are here. Take away the " execute" phase bonus and you have a DPS ability that requires max magicka to scale its primary dmg. Has the most counters due to interrupt abilities available (range and close).

- (all classes) Whirling Blades- "Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing [x] Physical Damage to nearby enemies plus up to 100% additional damage against wounded targets, based on their remaining Health.
Also grants Major Endurance, increasing Stamina Recovery by 20% for 10 seconds.
Grants Major Endurance and reduced cost"

AOE based, poor single target ability. additional dmg component based on remaining health pool (no percentage mentioned). Group situations only.

-(all stam classes) Poison Injection- "Shoot an arrow coated in Baandari poison, dealing [x] Poison Damage and an additional [y] Poison Damage over 10 seconds.
Damage over time is increased for enemies with under 50% Health.
Poison effect deals more damage vs low Health enemies.
Main attack AC friendly, but execute initiates only when the DOT ticks. Very situational and build dependant.

And most people forget templar's jabs used to give 70% more crit on low health targets. This means it was always ZOS intention to see the DPS of templars to use channels with high risk, high reward DPS (dark flare, total dark, RD, jabs).

Hey man by the way the DK molten armaments morph was changed.... It grants a buff to major sorcery and major brutality and fully charged heavy attacks keep the 40 percent extra damage but it no longer does execute damage and last for 30 seconds(40 if you got the passives)

I really miss the high execute heavy attack damage on this skill.

I miss it for this build I'm making. But that +dmg to light/heavy ain't that bad especially for such an accessible attack.

Morostyle

Funny part about this ability is. If u get hit with it with 100% hp, and drop of a, lets say, resource tower.. U instantly die

frozywozy

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

Funny how you totally changed my words interpreting my meaning in a totally different way. I'll repeat my necro post from months ago for you into hopefuly more familiar words for you.

People complained that they cannot counter WB on a magplar and die easily to it. I stated that a magplar can easily counter someone spamming WB without any problems. They can also manage to win the fight if they play properly.

I've never stated anywhere that WB is working perfectly fine. Also, they are nerfing hardcore Uppercut next patch so your statement is useless at this point.

Regarding your argument of having to respec to counter WB. It is not about countering WB, it is about countering stamina based players. There are so many different ways to play a magplar. It is probably the spec with the most options.

You can go full time healer using Resto/Dual wield or Resto/Resto. Easier to keep a large group of players alive. The disadvantage : your damage and survivability are pitiful. You can go full time dps (zerger mode) using Dual Wield/One hand shield. Easier to burst a target down quickly from range. Your healing is moderate. Your survivability is pitiful (full divine pve mode). You can go hybrid using Dual Wield / One hand shield. Easier to go in melee and to burst people down in 1v1 or small scale PvP (mostly impen gear).

I won't teach you how to counter WB spammers. There are a ton of players (probably your friends aswell) who can assist you and guide you if you need informations. It won't require to change your entire build to counter one ability. Unless you are one of those pve magplars full divine who stand 41meters away from its target behind 12friends spamming javelins and beams.

Joy_Division

KisoValley wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Don't nerf templar pls. Templars are very fragile, lack mobility, self heals, gap closer, recovery, have the worst passives in the game and need this burst to compensate their lack of defenses. All those 50k magplars growing in numbers lately in Cyrodiil are having a very hard time to kill anybody and need moar buffs. Don't nerf the range of RD or the execute range otherwise templar will go into extinction. thanks Zenimax

Very few of the new blazing shield templars are any good, most just tried to copy someone's build and are no where near adept at it. On a side note, no sane blazing shield templar would dare use jesus beam, so your post just sounds dumb and salty. The whole point to that build is to hit BS every skill or every other skill, you cannot lock yourself into an expensive channel like jesus beam (that will tickle even in execute range given your stats) when you have <= 16k max magicka.

The point of my post is to confirm that templar can look very solid from the outside but are really soft in the inside in reality. There are no ways for a magplar to tank the high burst of damage we have in the meta and RD burst is a great justification to outcome that lack of defense.

I have seen so many great templars getting wrecked by WB spam without any way to counter it, about time Zenimax finally give us a great counter to those shuffle dodge spammers. thanks god

Now they only need to increase the blazing shield spam because it doesn't do anything right now and is not even worth using.

Utilizing a destro staff as Templar helped me to negate the strengths of WB.
You also have jav and mage rune. It's not as instant as a sorc, but same strategy.

Frost staff, despite low dps, gives you one of the best roots to help counter WB users (and its infinate cast so ideally you can root most of the other team to help teammates focus players.)

Only use for BS was go help divert CP towards another defense other than crit resistance. RW was perfect in that you popped it, gained extra shield according to enemies hit, and negated crit.

He plays a DK and is making a poor attempt at sarcasm. He thinks that BS templars do the same dmg as a magplar.

The irony is that most of the things he said sarcastically are in fact true.

I've never said that a tank magplar can do as much damage as a glass cannon magplar. I'm just trying to make people who claim that Wrecking Blow has no counter realize that you can easily counter it if you spec accordingly. You don't need to go full tank build to be able to counter it. There are plenty of videos and proofs of tank magplars surviving for minutes straight in the middle of 15 pugs spamming abilities on him (kinda looks like the old DK bats meta we used to see in Wabbajack). If a tank magplar can tank 15 pugs on him for a long period of time, he can certainly cut down his tankyness for more damage and still be able to survive and mitigate the damage of one guy spamming Wrecking blow. If you don't believe me, go duel @Aenlir on his templar. He runs the perfect build to demonstrate the just middle between tankyness and damage output.

So wait just a second here.... Are you saying (with a serious face) that WB is a perfectly balanced non OP skill that has the simple counter of changing/specing your entire build just to be suited to counter WB, while most whininers about RD peristently complain that having to bother with any sort of cleanse or block even, (roots them instead of rolling and face wrecking), negates any existence of valid counters to RD?

Just wow.

Zos was truly smart to let RD work as intended,, they clearly have experianced some ridiculous builds out there too.

WB is counterable by any build. Any build can walk through it and cancel the cast of it. Any build can dodge it.

Countering WB does not require a skill slot. And it's a melee range skill. RD on the other hand does require a skill slot. So I'm confused how you think these are the same.

I'd be fine with a slight range reduction on RD. I think everything else about the skill is fine.

But let's be honest, every decent player should have a gap closer on their bar anyways. A well-rounded player will always choose their skills based on what will allow them to handle the most situations. We have only 4 classes in this game - we should all be prepared to take on any of them at any given time. Even if that means giving up a slot for purge or w/e. It's about adapting, in my opinion.

And I agree, with the wrecking blow changes coming, there should be nothing to complain about in regards to the skill anyways.

I can't wait for the day you experience 5 templars hitting you from Dragonclaw while you've just mounted coming out of Blackboot.

I also don't see why you have to adapt to RD but not any other skill like WB with a skill slot.

You don't think the people who reject the nerf arguments are't spammed by RD? Newsflash, we are. We just have learned to counter it.

And, no, I don't adapt to RD by with a skill slot.

The_Lex

Joy_Division wrote: »

You don't think the people who reject the nerf arguments are't spammed by RD? Newsflash, we are. We just have learned to counter it.

^^ This. I main a templar, but I have been burned down by RD enough times to figure out how to counter it.

frozywozy

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You don't think the people who reject the nerf arguments are't spammed by RD? Newsflash, we are. We just have learned to counter it.

^^ This. I main a templar, but I have been burned down by RD enough times to figure out how to counter it.

Do you also play a stam class who doesn't have access to any valuable shield by any chance?
Do you also play a class who doesn't have a class purge that doesn't cost 5k magicka?
Oh snap, they are increasing the cost of templar purge next patch up to 5k+.

In other words, try playing a stamina class, then talk about counterding RD.

maxjapank

frozywozy wrote: »

The_Patriarch wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

You don't think the people who reject the nerf arguments are't spammed by RD? Newsflash, we are. We just have learned to counter it.

^^ This. I main a templar, but I have been burned down by RD enough times to figure out how to counter it.

Do you also play a stam class who doesn't have access to any valuable shield by any chance?
Do you also play a class who doesn't have a class purge that doesn't cost 5k magicka?
Oh snap, they are increasing the cost of templar purge next patch up to 5k+.

In other words, try playing a stamina class, then talk about counterding RD.

I, and my group, play against Stam players all the time. And most of them have learned very well to counter Radiant. Why is it that you are having problems? Every class has access to some form of counter. And it costs 5k Magicka for efficient purge? What?!

Ghostbane

Even though this will never happen, if there could be a mechanism to only have one RD on you at any given time, I'd be happy with the ability itself remaining the same.