Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

exeeter702 · April 2016

Just to stress the point further...

It has nothing to do with how much money a given b2p player spends in game. ZoS is creating an incentive for players to support the game in a specific way, in this case, by subscribing.

The level of entitlement here is staggering. People thst don't think the sub is worth it and gain all they need from buying dlc are outraged that a feature that they desperately want is tied to a subscription.

Why do you not subscribe? Because you cant legally?, because you feel only suckers do and you gain more for your money by staying b2p etc.

Do you want the bag? If yes, do you think it's worth 15 dollars a month? No? Then you would prefer it be a 1 time purchase like all other features on the crown store right? So you are basically saying that you refuse to accept any QoL feature that is desired be offered to subscribers exclusively when in fact thst is the very essence of what makes subscriptions attractive in theso models in the first place.

Honest question for any and all, what benefits do you feel a subscription should carry? And where do you draw the line? Because based on this entire discussion, you want them to put it on the crown store and render it just another paid for feature bring this full circle.

Accept the fact that Zos desires more subscribers then ask yourself what could they do to incentivise people to sub. This has nothing to do with how much a plAyer spends on crowns and everthing to do with the preferred method of support that Zos is pushing.

Wanderinlost · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

I will say now why this tread has become either completely pointless or even "dangerous":

WHY DANGEROUS?

Because in the remote case that ZOS decides to listen to OP and makes the bag available in the Cash Shop they will totally *** off the great majority of the actual subscribers and they would lose a tons of players/subscribers/money to make some "random income guys" happy.

WHY POINTLESS?

Because if ZOS does not make the bag available in the Cash Shop... they will maybe lose a very few players that are a "non sure form of income" for the company, they will get those "not sure income" money back as a sure income from new subscribers and,, at the same time, the majority of people will completly forget this issue even existed with a little bit of time so... there will be absolutly no change for anyone but a very few number of people; and since it's crystal clear what would be the negative thing happening if they changed their mind now, you should just give up and close this tread because, as i already said, it's totally pointless since it will bring absolutly NO CHANGE in ANY POSSIBLE WAY, and will only keep generating flames because instead of beeing a constructive kind of tread, it's a personal war against ZOS from the very first post.

Give it up: no matter how long this discussion keeps going on you will never win because if you "win" it'll be a "lose-lose" situation for everyone were a few people will get a totally unnecessary item in term of ability to play the game in exchange for a massive decrease in subscribers for zenimax... and this will end up hindering the game even for the people, like the OP, that obtained their petty bag.

IT
WILL
NOT
HAPPEN

Has locking central features behind a paywall helped any game ever? The oldest F2P games have suffered for years becasue of restrictive strategies and many are/have being removed becasue restrictions have a detrimental effect on game health which ultimately leads to decline. The B2P people stop buying stuff, and instead of spending on the feature and DLC they will simply sub for a short time then stop. The subscribers will get their selfish demand met but is that going to keep them? No they will probably end up doing the same sooner or later. Then there is a cycle of tourism which is pervasive and feeds on itself.

So many people are here or are still here because of B2P and having full access to features. This changes that. If ZOS is doing it right then people should be happy paying for a sub or a new feature depending on their preference because it adds to their experience and supports a game they enjoy. If they want to start restricting stuff, well then perhaps it will turn a profit for a while but in the long run it's going to do more damage than good and all you diehard ESO+ people will be pointing the finger at ZOS wondering where everyone went and why development is being scaled back.

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Dahkoht wrote: »

Just sell the crafting bags for 200.00 lifetime fee for those who want to whine and gnash about it being a sub only perk and saying it has to be in the crown store also.

Give them exactly what they want.

There's no way they would then whine about the price is there ?

Sure... just get zos to gimme back the $365 back I've already spent through B2P and I'll happily pay that as a lifetime fee while you lot continue to pay monthly

@Tommy1979AtWar
Generally not how a business works, Buddy. Usually you only get a refund on a faulty item.
You seem to be under some sort of weird impression that an unlimited storage bag for crafting mats is for sale. This game has no such item. It has a very similar item which is avaliable to rent.
Also, your continued attempts to dazzle all and sundry with your extensive crown purchases are falling fairly flat. If you indeed spend that much on crowns, you are the extreme minority. I'm sure there are plenty of subscribers who have spent a similar quantity on this game, if not more. There is probably also a large number of subscribers who would have spent more. @GrumpStump for confirmation please. And now that I think of how many crowns that would get, did you just go to the crown store and order a menu?
You have some serious under estimations on the price of this as well. For a quick example, let's assume you own a house that you do not require for care of yourself or your family. You decide to rent it out, to turn a small income out of it. Someone comes up to you and says, "Well, I don't want to rent it. But I will buy it." Do you take the quick income spike now or do you decline the offer and continue to rent it out for the smaller but regular income.
If an unlimited crafting bag becomes avaliable in the crown store, the bare minimum price is the cost of subbing for a year. I think it would be more. A limited bag would probably be as much as assistants and probably be smaller than you want.
And before you start going on about how I must be a subber, sitting on my high horse, gazing at all the peons...
I don't sub. I also think this is a fantastic benefit for people who do. Hell, I want it so bad that I've almost gotten over having to pay 2 usage fees because console.
Now go try some other B2P or F2P games, see what they do for money and then return and let us know what you think of them. ESO+ is great because it doesn't give you an insurmountable advantage, just some QoL perks. Once they add another one that interests me, or buff the existing ones so that I like them more, they'll have me. Hook, line and sinker.

Tommy1979AtWar · April 2016

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Dahkoht wrote: »

Just sell the crafting bags for 200.00 lifetime fee for those who want to whine and gnash about it being a sub only perk and saying it has to be in the crown store also.

Give them exactly what they want.

There's no way they would then whine about the price is there ?

Sure... just get zos to gimme back the $365 back I've already spent through B2P and I'll happily pay that as a lifetime fee while you lot continue to pay monthly

@Tommy1979AtWar
Generally not how a business works, Buddy. Usually you only get a refund on a faulty item.
You seem to be under some sort of weird impression that an unlimited storage bag for crafting mats is for sale. This game has no such item. It has a very similar item which is avaliable to rent.
Also, your continued attempts to dazzle all and sundry with your extensive crown purchases are falling fairly flat. If you indeed spend that much on crowns, you are the extreme minority. I'm sure there are plenty of subscribers who have spent a similar quantity on this game, if not more. There is probably also a large number of subscribers who would have spent more. @GrumpStump for confirmation please. And now that I think of how many crowns that would get, did you just go to the crown store and order a menu?
You have some serious under estimations on the price of this as well. For a quick example, let's assume you own a house that you do not require for care of yourself or your family. You decide to rent it out, to turn a small income out of it. Someone comes up to you and says, "Well, I don't want to rent it. But I will buy it." Do you take the quick income spike now or do you decline the offer and continue to rent it out for the smaller but regular income.
If an unlimited crafting bag becomes avaliable in the crown store, the bare minimum price is the cost of subbing for a year. I think it would be more. A limited bag would probably be as much as assistants and probably be smaller than you want.
And before you start going on about how I must be a subber, sitting on my high horse, gazing at all the peons...
I don't sub. I also think this is a fantastic benefit for people who do. Hell, I want it so bad that I've almost gotten over having to pay 2 usage fees because console.
Now go try some other B2P or F2P games, see what they do for money and then return and let us know what you think of them. ESO+ is great because it doesn't give you an insurmountable advantage, just some QoL perks. Once they add another one that interests me, or buff the existing ones so that I like them more, they'll have me. Hook, line and sinker.

Well done for completely missing my sarcasm in reply to a sarcastic comment, I knew I was subtle but wow I'm better than I thought lol

~thumbs up buddy~

Nyx2 · April 2016

scorpiodog wrote: »

I can live without crafting bags.
We don't have them now, after all.

But they could save people from logging in and out numerous times to move crafting materials between characters and the bank.

So a bonus, but only a time saver, not a game winner.

More bagspace = more money, crafting = more power.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you're able to compete with everyone in that aspect.

Flynch · April 2016

I'm really pumped for a lot of things coming along soon! The bag is inconsequential compared to the fun i'm going to be having with the new content.

But I sub. And as a subber i'm biased. And as a subber I think we need something nice and inconsequential to give us that incentive to keep subbing.

Some people want the bag for 5k crowns? Ok, here is what would happen if that were the case:

ZOS: Hey guys, we're putting the bag on the store for 5k crowns!

A tiny minority of non-sub: Awesome! Take my money (that I could have used on subbing or DLC)

The majority of non-sub: WT-actual-F ZO$.... you greedy sods! I'm done!

The majority of subs: WT-actual-F Zo$.... you betrayers, the sub is once again worthless, unsub!

You mileage may vary.

Humphie · April 2016

Flynch wrote: »

I'm really pumped for a lot of things coming along soon! The bag is inconsequential compared to the fun i'm going to be having with the new content.

But I sub. And as a subber i'm biased. And as a subber I think we need something nice and inconsequential to give us that incentive to keep subbing.

Some people want the bag for 5k crowns? Ok, here is what would happen if that were the case:

ZOS: Hey guys, we're putting the bag on the store for 5k crowns!

A tiny minority of non-sub: Awesome! Take my money (that I could have used on subbing or DLC)

The majority of non-sub: WT-actual-F ZO$.... you greedy sods! I'm done!

The majority of subs: WT-actual-F Zo$.... you betrayers, the sub is once again worthless, unsub!

You mileage may vary.

THAT!

CaptainBeerDude · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Dahkoht wrote: »

Mercymae wrote: »

Psst the whole reason they are doing it for the subs is they want more people to sub. A reliable revenue stream is what you take to your higher ups (ya know those guys in suits who only care that the game is profitable) There should be some sort of option for non subs to get some sort of crafting bag even if its limited to like 100 slots. But since they are basing off of a revenue standpoint it may be awhile before we see that. If subs don't increase due to the bag, we can just about guarantee it will be available in the crown store.

You are trying to introduce logic and sound economic practices to a whining , bratty , I deserve what I want for what I want to pay for it , crowd that just cannot grasp such concepts.

"They don't agree with what I think, they must be whiny, bratty and entitled"

Sound logic.

It has nothing to do with what they agree with. It's has every thing to do with the fact that many people have been explaining exactly how the models work and where most of the money comes from to generate new content and fix bugs. Anyone who understand a basic business model knows that reliable income, even in smaller increments, is way more desirable than a sporadic income. This is the logic that is failing to be seen by you and many of the "It's not fair crowd."

The fact that most of the people crying about this bags where more than likely not here when it was a sub only game can't see the pace at which things get done. You want better balancing and bug fixes? So do I. Guess what. Under the sub model *** got done in a reasonable time frame. Not like now where we have to wait for DLC's for bug fixes to come IF then even come.

And to the person who says if we knew what the company was spending our money on we wouldn't spend it? Yeah I'm sorry, but if buying every developer golden toilet paper would get better and faster updates to bugs in game or latency fixed in Cyrodiil... well then just let me know what karat you want. I mean seriously. Such petty BS.

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

@NewBlacksmurf

A couple of things:
Offering it for sale in the CS devalues it as a subscription incentive. If it can be purchased outright, it is no longer an incentive to subscribe.
Subscription is their preferred business model. I believe you like necromancy, find out what ZOS' official stance was before they submitted to B2P.
It has been pointed out repeatedly that subs benefits are sorely lacking. What would you offer in a subscription package to convince me to sub? Bear in mind that current benefits and the crafting bag are almost enough to get me in and I have very little interest in most of the crown store offerings.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · April 2016

Let me say this. If ZOS does ever offer a limited crafting bag to the nonsubs, it will need to be at the rate of 1,000 crowns per 10 slots, or 5,000 for 50 to make them as viable as the assistants. But I bet the OP doesn't want to pay for the convenience.

And let me tell you this. It is about time that the subs received an extra perk. If you want the perk, then subscribe. It is well worth it. I am on a very limited fixed income and I subscribe to the game and have been since the release. I even buy extra crowns when there is something I want that I don't have the crowns. It is not that much. If you don't want to subscribe, you have no reason to complain about the subs getting a perk. You are not loosing anything for being a nonsub. Your inventory is not shrinking. It is staying the same as it is now. Therfore, you are getting what you pay for.

BTW, I have been to the PTS. The crafting bag is FANTASTIC!!! I am so very glad that I am a sub. It is well worth the price.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Dahkoht wrote: »

Mercymae wrote: »

Psst the whole reason they are doing it for the subs is they want more people to sub. A reliable revenue stream is what you take to your higher ups (ya know those guys in suits who only care that the game is profitable) There should be some sort of option for non subs to get some sort of crafting bag even if its limited to like 100 slots. But since they are basing off of a revenue standpoint it may be awhile before we see that. If subs don't increase due to the bag, we can just about guarantee it will be available in the crown store.

You are trying to introduce logic and sound economic practices to a whining , bratty , I deserve what I want for what I want to pay for it , crowd that just cannot grasp such concepts.

"They don't agree with what I think, they must be whiny, bratty and entitled"

Sound logic.

It has nothing to do with what they agree with. It's has every thing to do with the fact that many people have been explaining exactly how the models work and where most of the money comes from to generate new content and fix bugs. Anyone who understand a basic business model knows that reliable income, even in smaller increments, is way more desirable than a sporadic income. This is the logic that is failing to be seen by you and many of the "It's not fair crowd."

The fact that most of the people crying about this bags where more than likely not here when it was a sub only game can't see the pace at which things get done. You want better balancing and bug fixes? So do I. Guess what. Under the sub model *** got done in a reasonable time frame. Not like now where we have to wait for DLC's for bug fixes to come IF then even come.

And to the person who says if we knew what the company was spending our money on we wouldn't spend it? Yeah I'm sorry, but if buying every developer golden toilet paper would get better and faster updates to bugs in game or latency fixed in Cyrodiil... well then just let me know what karat you want. I mean seriously. Such petty BS.

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

@NewBlacksmurf

A couple of things:
Offering it for sale in the CS devalues it as a subscription incentive. If it can be purchased outright, it is no longer an incentive to subscribe.
Subscription is their preferred business model. I believe you like necromancy, find out what ZOS' official stance was before they submitted to B2P.
It has been pointed out repeatedly that subs benefits are sorely lacking. What would you offer in a subscription package to convince me to sub? Bear in mind that current benefits and the crafting bag are almost enough to get me in and I have very little interest in most of the crown store offerings.

Really?
So is ESO plus the issue or the bags?

I believe ESO plus is the issue and not the bag. If you're desire to buy ESO plus is for this bag then the program has no value if you feel that allowing the bag outside of ESO plus devalues ESO plus. It's not that the bag devalues ESO plus....it's that ESO plus has no value because of the benefits offered.

Can the folks who want a crafting bag, buy it and can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus? What I'm reading and what the ESO plus benefits threads have said since March was that ESO plus didn't have value. I think the reality of that is sinking in for ppl. But it's not right or a good business decision to bring a feature and lock it behind a subscription when you as a company know that a large portion of your customer base won't support it.

Massive_Stain · April 2016

I think this is brilliance . I played this when you either subscribed, or didn't play -- no bonus crowns either. This is great from a longevity standpoint . I do sort of hope it becomes purchasable in the future though.

clayandaudrey_ESO · April 2016

Svalinn wrote: »

I will say now why this tread has become either completely pointless or even "dangerous":

WHY DANGEROUS?

Because in the remote case that ZOS decides to listen to OP and makes the bag available in the Cash Shop they will totally *** off the great majority of the actual subscribers and they would lose a tons of players/subscribers/money to make some "random income guys" happy.

WHY POINTLESS?

Because if ZOS does not make the bag available in the Cash Shop... they will maybe lose a very few players that are a "non sure form of income" for the company, they will get those "not sure income" money back as a sure income from new subscribers and,, at the same time, the majority of people will completly forget this issue even existed with a little bit of time so... there will be absolutly no change for anyone but a very few number of people; and since it's crystal clear what would be the negative thing happening if they changed their mind now, you should just give up and close this tread because, as i already said, it's totally pointless since it will bring absolutly NO CHANGE in ANY POSSIBLE WAY, and will only keep generating flames because instead of beeing a constructive kind of tread, it's a personal war against ZOS from the very first post.

Give it up: no matter how long this discussion keeps going on you will never win because if you "win" it'll be a "lose-lose" situation for everyone were a few people will get a totally unnecessary item in term of ability to play the game in exchange for a massive decrease in subscribers for zenimax... and this will end up hindering the game even for the people, like the OP, that obtained their petty bag.

IT
WILL
NOT
HAPPEN

Do not say it will not happen. You may need to look at the thread i linked. Lots of people saying that wouldn't happen either.

tom5330 · April 2016

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

We will be unlocking this thread momentarily. This thread has been a long-running debate of this subject and we would like to continue to allow further commentary on the pros and cons of upcoming updates.

Keep in mind that this thread had to be locked due to baiting and heated commentary that was starting to get out of hand. Please be sure to keep the forum rules in mind for future posts. We will close the thread for conduct if it cannot remain civil.

Good team, actually wanting to hear what the people want. *salutes*

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?

Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.

At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.

If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.

(NB : I don't sub).

Sallington · April 2016

It's about time they gave subscribers something worthwhile for supporting their game and basically funding the console launch.

Lysette · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Dahkoht wrote: »

Mercymae wrote: »

Psst the whole reason they are doing it for the subs is they want more people to sub. A reliable revenue stream is what you take to your higher ups (ya know those guys in suits who only care that the game is profitable) There should be some sort of option for non subs to get some sort of crafting bag even if its limited to like 100 slots. But since they are basing off of a revenue standpoint it may be awhile before we see that. If subs don't increase due to the bag, we can just about guarantee it will be available in the crown store.

You are trying to introduce logic and sound economic practices to a whining , bratty , I deserve what I want for what I want to pay for it , crowd that just cannot grasp such concepts.

"They don't agree with what I think, they must be whiny, bratty and entitled"

Sound logic.

It has nothing to do with what they agree with. It's has every thing to do with the fact that many people have been explaining exactly how the models work and where most of the money comes from to generate new content and fix bugs. Anyone who understand a basic business model knows that reliable income, even in smaller increments, is way more desirable than a sporadic income. This is the logic that is failing to be seen by you and many of the "It's not fair crowd."

The fact that most of the people crying about this bags where more than likely not here when it was a sub only game can't see the pace at which things get done. You want better balancing and bug fixes? So do I. Guess what. Under the sub model *** got done in a reasonable time frame. Not like now where we have to wait for DLC's for bug fixes to come IF then even come.

And to the person who says if we knew what the company was spending our money on we wouldn't spend it? Yeah I'm sorry, but if buying every developer golden toilet paper would get better and faster updates to bugs in game or latency fixed in Cyrodiil... well then just let me know what karat you want. I mean seriously. Such petty BS.

This concept is about 20 years old.
Subscriptions....
Cell phone companies are going away from it
Cable providers are going away from it
Video games are going away from it
Insurance companies are going away from it
Car companies and mortgage are going away from it
You can flat out pay up front and be done. No contract as it's literally the sale point of many of the above now.

The idea that a customer will pledge and fulfill that pledge is not a plan, it's Hope and hope is not a plan.

A plan for stable financials is understanding your product and your potential and current customer base.
Specific to this game, a larger portion of customers aren't keen to a sub model so as such, a sub focus will cause the company to fail if the goals are solely based on this.

ZOS is not solely based on a sub nor are they planning to survive off a sub.
They are adjusting the product so one type of customer (the subscriber) who expressed discontent with the benefits of the sub product, changes are needed. And yes they are.

Now that has nothing at all to do with people who don't sub who don't want to sub who do want to buy a crafting bag and other crown items.

The argument being had isn't necessary. If you are a subscriber....please chill because no one is asking to take any benefits away from your sub
They are asking to offer a purchase in addition to the sub crafting bag benefit.
It's no different than exp scrolls or gold increases and reduced research time. Some of that stuff would be asked for as crown purchases too if it meant something to those who don't sub but the reality is the only ESO benefit that means anything to anyone is DLC access.

Everything else is being asked to change, enchanted or update.

Let's stop arguing about who gets what cause the crafting bag flat out should be avilable via crowns. And because it was announced for ESO plus, that should stay too.

@NewBlacksmurf

A couple of things:
Offering it for sale in the CS devalues it as a subscription incentive. If it can be purchased outright, it is no longer an incentive to subscribe.
Subscription is their preferred business model. I believe you like necromancy, find out what ZOS' official stance was before they submitted to B2P.
It has been pointed out repeatedly that subs benefits are sorely lacking. What would you offer in a subscription package to convince me to sub? Bear in mind that current benefits and the crafting bag are almost enough to get me in and I have very little interest in most of the crown store offerings.

Really?
So is ESO plus the issue or the bags?

I believe ESO plus is the issue and not the bag. If you're desire to buy ESO plus is for this bag then the program has no value if you feel that allowing the bag outside of ESO plus devalues ESO plus. It's not that the bag devalues ESO plus....it's that ESO plus has no value because of the benefits offered.

Can the folks who want a crafting bag, buy it and can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus? What I'm reading and what the ESO plus benefits threads have said since March was that ESO plus didn't have value. I think the reality of that is sinking in for ppl. But it's not right or a good business decision to bring a feature and lock it behind a subscription when you as a company know that a large portion of your customer base won't support it.

I think the number of subscribers will rise significantly with this and then the majority will be supporting this feature. there might be some who will just sub for a month, stuff that bag full of stuff and then unsub and use the materials gathered. It is a option ZOS left for those, who do not want to continue to pay for the bag, they will have the advantage of having their stuff in a separate bag, but they can just fill it, when they are subbed.

What many do not see, IMO, is that the subscription will get more and more valuable over time, with any new DLC, which you did not have to pay for individually, but which you get access to via the subscription. It is not even expensive at all, if you substract the value of the crowns you get with a subscription. So if you buy stuff from the crown store anyway, it is not a bad idea to be a subscriber and it will be worth even more the more DLCs will be released.

I myself bought Orsinium and the IC DLC before I subscribed - well, I wish I would have put that money into a subscription instead, but at that time I thought that ESO+ isn't worth it - and it wasn't until they announced, that every quarter there will be a new DLC and we will get a crafting bag as subscribers - at this point in time, I thought, well, subscription is the way to go. And I guess that more people will come to the same conclusion and over time ZOS will get what they wanted, a subscription based game, where the majority of players will be subscribers - simply, because it makes sense in the long run.

Grayphilosophy · April 2016

exeeter702 wrote: »

Why do you not subscribe? Because you cant legally?, because you feel only suckers do and you gain more for your money by staying b2p etc.

I ain't got the time bruh. I play ESO for a grand total of only a couple of hours a week if the mood presents itself. It's not that I am literally prevented from playing the game, I just enjoy my spare-time entertainment in small doses. ESO being one of them.

Honestly, I'd love to subscribe because it's quite convenient, but I can't justify subscribing with a monthly fee to something I spend so little time on in the long run. For that reason, having single-purchase items in the cash shop is a wonderful thing, because it lets me have more control over what, when and how I pay for the exact things that I want to buy.

Just like a customizable TV package and internet setup. It's bloody annoying that you still have to get a TV package and pay license to have an internet connection. For some companies at least, I'm actually not sure if there are other companies who offer Internet with no TV.

Honest question for any and all, what benefits do you feel a subscription should carry? And where do you draw the line? Because based on this entire discussion, you want them to put it on the crown store and render it just another paid for feature bring this full circle.

A subscribtion should no doubt carry benefits, and there should certainly be room for good benefits as well. But I was under the impression that exclusive items (with the exception of cosmetics) had already proven to be a very inefficient way to monetize or draw incentive.

What ESO+ has now is a good start, but I'm sure there's room for more. The inclusion of a crafting bag isn't a bad thing, it's a freebie on top of the rest in the subscriber package that you won't have to spend extra crowns to purchase. But letting non-subscribers purchase it as well would give more people access to making that purchase. Just like with the DLC's.

Things like +10% exp, inspiration and gold rates are also fine. It's a convenience that just speeds things up for subscribers. Doesn't make them more powerful and doesn't give them an advantage that non-subs will feel.

Then there's the monthly crowns, this is great too. You're paying money, you should be getting crowns. Even at a discount rate. Unless I've missed something though, if you save a little, aren't you able to buy off all the DLC content and other things with the ESO+ crowns? effectively eliminating the need to actually spend any additional money on more crowns?

Other things I'd feel were fair for subscribers could be, but not limited to:

- Headstart access to DLC content
- Exclusive cosmetics (so long as there are alternate cosmetics for the rest)
- Additional character slots by default
- helpful party buffs that don't otherwise affect gameplay (like granting a +5% exp bonus to members of your party or similar)
- VIP services like the Merchant and Banker. Tools of convenience, but not something other player's can't access as well.

My issue with it is that this infamous bag seems to be an exclusive item that offers a much desired mechanic that makes inventory management less of a pain, but only to those who subscribe. Excluding the people who wish to buy it, but don't have the stablitity to subscribe. It's silly really.
An alternative could be to increase the bank and inventory cap for subscribers, this wouldn't be massively different but also wouldn't be an exclusive item, just a convenience.

Just as a thought experiement. How would you (subscribers in general) have reacted if this bag was presented like this:

Something something headlines
- list
- of things
- coming
- Crafting bags for purchase in the crown store, but available for free by default for ESO+ members
- more things
- and so on

Nermy · April 2016

If you want it, sub.

End of...

MornaBaine · April 2016

As someone in a household with 3 subs, paid continuously since launch, yes I feel this is plenty fair. They did away with the loyalty rewards program so I don't even occasionally get a pet I'll never use anymore. To actually get something USEFUL for my sub money? About time.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?

Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.

At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.

If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.

(NB : I don't sub).

The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.
Benefits are things like:
-faster mount training resets
-reduced daily timers on dungeon finder
-have 3 runs vs 1 run with a blue undaunted item and 101k exp
-reduce research by 50-75%
-increase exp by 50%
-increase gold drops by 50%
-get early access to DLC a week in advance

People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok

Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?

Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.

At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.

If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.

(NB : I don't sub).

The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.

People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok

Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory

It doesnt hurt ESO plus. It helps their bottom line. Selling the item for a one time fee is not as profitable. This isnt a charity. You want fairness go hug a tree or something.

Or ok we will sell you it for a one time fee. 150,000 crowns.

Grayphilosophy · April 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?

Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.

At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.

If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.

(NB : I don't sub).

The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.

People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok

Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory

It doesnt hurt ESO plus. It helps their bottom line. Selling the item for a one time fee is not as profitable. This isnt a charity. You want fairness go hug a tree or something.

Or ok we will sell you it for a one time fee. 150,000 crowns.

Even that would be more fair than hiding it behind a sub.

Destruent · April 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.
Benefits are things like:
-faster mount training resets
-reduced daily timers on dungeon finder
-have 3 runs vs 1 run with a blue undaunted item and 101k exp
-reduce research by 50-75%
-increase exp by 50%
-increase gold drops by 50%
-get early access to DLC a week in advance

Noone wants the last one bc this version would be extremely buggy. The rest is useless for those who play since release or atleast one year.
If you want the bag just rent it, like everyone else has to...if it's too expensive for you, just don't rent it.

Lysette · April 2016

It's not as if people could not live without that bag so far - they could, the game is playable without that bag. So it is a real benefit for subscribers. IMO there should be a limited summer sale for this bag on the crown store for those - and those only - who have bought all DLCs so far and want to stay with the buy to play model. If they did not invest into DLCs so far, then they do not have a reasonable argument for their demand. They either subscribe or do not get this bag - simple as that.

Nermy · April 2016

If you want it, sub.

End of...

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

Grayphilosophy wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?

Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.

At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.

If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.

(NB : I don't sub).

The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.

People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok

Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory

It doesnt hurt ESO plus. It helps their bottom line. Selling the item for a one time fee is not as profitable. This isnt a charity. You want fairness go hug a tree or something.

Or ok we will sell you it for a one time fee. 150,000 crowns.

Even that would be more fair than hiding it behind a sub.

Again not everything has to be "fair". This is a plus perk. Grow up put the big boy underwear on and get over it.

snorlockb16_ESO · April 2016

OMG!!
I just got killed repeatedly in Cyrodil because I had my bag full of crafting supplies!!
I can't finish Maelstrom Arena because my bag is full of crafting supplies!!
I couldn't kill Molag Bal because of all the crafting supplies in my bag!!
No one will group with me because of crafting supplies!!

This is SO obviously p2w!!!!

NewBlacksmurf · April 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?

Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.

At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.

If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.

(NB : I don't sub).

The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.

People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok

Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory

It doesnt hurt ESO plus. It helps their bottom line. Selling the item for a one time fee is not as profitable. This isnt a charity. You want fairness go hug a tree or something.

It's charity...really so James, what price removes your opinion from charity because last time I bought crowns it was more than the cost of ESO plus.

Ppl that buy crowns can argue that they buy 2500-5k crowns a month to support the game. Clearly that happens often as I won't buy items over 2k unless it's an expansion but have purchased over 50k in crowns since console launch excluding crowns from ESO plus. That same group can argue that ESO plus subs spend less than they do.

In the end, it's all just arguments and opinions.
What's bad is ppl are trying to argue that ZOS is loosing money and so they need a reason for more ppl to sub to make money......really.

So all those assistants running around and the exp scrolls that it seems more than 75% of ppl I run into buy each moth.
That's 1k a month and another 10k. That's far more than a sub so it's not really about that.
It's about subscribers not wanting others to have a feature which is sad and a terribly mentality to have. If you only feel something has value because if you have it, others can't have what you have, that's a mental disease.

Link- https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

See my other thread.... http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262305/zos-thecommunity-eso-plus-subs-crown-purchasers-total-lifetime-crowns-matter-thats-it#latest

If ZOS is loosing money then they need to offer more logical 1500 k crown items each month....but that's not the problem cause the costumes that come out more than exceed 1500. I don't know where these theories come from but it's sad. ZOS isn't loosing money due to subs. Maybe it's loosing potential subs because the benefits aren't benefits but you don't then add a feature solely to get more subs.

That's how to loose customers all together.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2016

Fact is no matter how you slice it they make more money off subs. Its quite obvious its why they made the bag a sub only perk. Because they want subs. Subs are what make money every month. So its logical they would make this a sub perk. people who dont sub their game doesnt change. Everything is still the same for them. The only thing you dont have is some minor xp boosts and some extra bank space. Hardly game ending and will make a ton of money for ZOS.

Brangwen · April 2016

I think it's nice to see an actual perk to being subscribed. Banking crafting mats isn't that much of an issue, but it does make it simpler to not have to switch characters to banking alts.