Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

JD2013

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Okay, here's a question.

If they introduced the exact same bag into the crown store, what would be the motivation to keep a subscription, given that this is a perk to encourage subscribers?

There would be no reason to subscribe if its in the store. Unless like I said it cost 150,000 crowns. Im pretty sure ZOS went over all this already internally. Incentives to subscribe are a good thing. If you would pay say 50,000 crowns for it why not just sub for a few years instead. You get the bag and 1500 crowns a month on top of what you were going to spend.

Which makes me think people wouldnt want to spend more than say 1000 crowns on it. Which would be silly to sell it for that price. Also would be silly to list something for 50,000 crowns on the store. So they went with the only real option. Making it a sub only perk.

Exactly!

CaptainBeerDude

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?

Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.

At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.

If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.

(NB : I don't sub).

The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.

People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok

Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory

It doesnt hurt ESO plus. It helps their bottom line. Selling the item for a one time fee is not as profitable. This isnt a charity. You want fairness go hug a tree or something.

It's charity...really so James, what price removes your opinion from charity because last time I bought crowns it was more than the cost of ESO plus.

Ppl that buy crowns can argue that they buy 2500-5k crowns a month to support the game. Clearly that happens often as I won't buy items over 2k unless it's an expansion but have purchased over 50k in crowns since console launch excluding crowns from ESO plus. That same group can argue that ESO plus subs spend less than they do.

In the end, it's all just arguments and opinions.
What's bad is ppl are trying to argue that ZOS is loosing money and so they need a reason for more ppl to sub to make money......really.

So all those assistants running around and the exp scrolls that it seems more than 75% of ppl I run into buy each moth.
That's 1k a month and another 10k. That's far more than a sub so it's not really about that.
It's about subscribers not wanting others to have a feature which is sad and a terribly mentality to have. If you only feel something has value because if you have it, others can't have what you have, that's a mental disease.

Link- https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

See my other thread.... http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262305/zos-thecommunity-eso-plus-subs-crown-purchasers-total-lifetime-crowns-matter-thats-it#latest

If ZOS is loosing money then they need to offer more logical 1500 k crown items each month....but that's not the problem cause the costumes that come out more than exceed 1500. I don't know where these theories come from but it's sad. ZOS isn't loosing money due to subs. Maybe it's loosing potential subs because the benefits aren't benefits but you don't then add a feature solely to get more subs.

That's how to loose customers all together.

Dude. If I sub for the bag, and then it becomes avaliable in the CS, I would save up my sub crowns and then buy it. And then unsub. Because why would I rent something that I can buy?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Wanderinlost wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zos has very good reason to make this bag only available for subs as subs add move value to the business since our income is more reliable and steady. Obviously giving players more reason to sub is a good thing. Comparing the cost of purchasing DLC vs sub is not germane or relevant.

With that, it is a choice to sub or not. You can have the bag if you choose to.

Yeah subscriptions are so stable that every game in the MMO sphere has converted to a F2P, hybrid, or B2P over the past 5 years. Even WoW bleeds a few million within a month or two of every expansion. This game bled so many subs it went B2P in a year. Wildstar subs were so bad it will probably be forever stunted. There is nothing to suggest that a crafting bag is going to turn ESO into a solid sub game. At best it will be abused, at worse it will have unintended and costly consequences. You want people to spend money and earn real loyalty, not compel customers into doing something they don't want to do for a single feature and go against the premise of your business model in the process.

The game didnt bleed subs and thats why it went B2P. It was because they couldnt figure out how the monthly sub would work on consoles. Noone is trying to turn ESO into a sub only game. Other than some extra bank space for crafting mats nothing changes as far as non subscribers. So again more hyperbole. If you want the bag go out panhandle 50 cents a day. I mean come on I made more than 50 cents a day in the early 80s delivering newspapers.

Tommy1979AtWar

JD2013 wrote: »

Okay, here's a question.

If they introduced the exact same bag into the crown store, what would be the motivation to keep a subscription, given that this is a perk to encourage subscribers?

That's a fair question, there are lots of things that could be implemented which could have also been implemented before now, personally I always felt the subscriber community should benefit from a % discount in both the crown store and the official merchandise store, maybe access to full version bank and merchant assistants rather than vanilla versions on sale atm... there are lots of ways to insentivize the sub base, I just feel a much requested and sought after solution to the pain in the rear of inventory management should be available to all.

NewBlacksmurf

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Can ZOS exchange ESO plus to not hate a feature behind it but instead, actually offer enhanced benefits to having ESO plus?

Which is exactly what they are doing with the bags. And whatever other really valuable feature they'd put into ESO+ as incentive to sub, you'd ALSO want in the crown store.

At this stage (29 pages) I firmly think all "unfair" arguments are made up as a disguise for a very simple "I need it because I want it, full stop" attitude.

If you cannot understand the difference in revenue for ZOS between a rented feature and a sold feature, it's hopeless.

(NB : I don't sub).

The bag is not an enhanced benefit. It's a completely new feature.
You don't set a new feature behind a sub. It's not hard to understand...it's 29 pages of selfish intent.

People are arguing that because they want to sub, that ZOS needs to make changes so subbing has value.
Ok

Tell me specifically how allowing a bag purchase without needing ESO plus hurts or devalues ESO plus.
Please because all you all have shared are extremely biased theories and selfish reasons that express that you feel that a subscriber is more valuable to a company...which is also an opinion and a theory

It doesnt hurt ESO plus. It helps their bottom line. Selling the item for a one time fee is not as profitable. This isnt a charity. You want fairness go hug a tree or something.

It's charity...really so James, what price removes your opinion from charity because last time I bought crowns it was more than the cost of ESO plus.

Ppl that buy crowns can argue that they buy 2500-5k crowns a month to support the game. Clearly that happens often as I won't buy items over 2k unless it's an expansion but have purchased over 50k in crowns since console launch excluding crowns from ESO plus. That same group can argue that ESO plus subs spend less than they do.

In the end, it's all just arguments and opinions.
What's bad is ppl are trying to argue that ZOS is loosing money and so they need a reason for more ppl to sub to make money......really.

So all those assistants running around and the exp scrolls that it seems more than 75% of ppl I run into buy each moth.
That's 1k a month and another 10k. That's far more than a sub so it's not really about that.
It's about subscribers not wanting others to have a feature which is sad and a terribly mentality to have. If you only feel something has value because if you have it, others can't have what you have, that's a mental disease.

Link- https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

See my other thread.... http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262305/zos-thecommunity-eso-plus-subs-crown-purchasers-total-lifetime-crowns-matter-thats-it#latest

If ZOS is loosing money then they need to offer more logical 1500 k crown items each month....but that's not the problem cause the costumes that come out more than exceed 1500. I don't know where these theories come from but it's sad. ZOS isn't loosing money due to subs. Maybe it's loosing potential subs because the benefits aren't benefits but you don't then add a feature solely to get more subs.

That's how to loose customers all together.

Dude. If I sub for the bag, and then it becomes free, I would save up my sub crowns and then buy it. And then unsub. Because why would I rent something that I can buy?

I don't know!
Ask those who sub vs buying, when I subbed, that was the point. Save up crowns and buy DLC expansion. Then I started buying other stuff so cause I wasn't getting crowns from my sub due to ZOS issues with Xbox one, I just buy crowns.

Here the important thing tho....the market is for all types of customers. What makes sense as a buy for some, doesn't for others. Some would rather rent than buy. That's the whole point of the crown store and ESO plus options.
It allows us all to make the best choice for our desires.

My thing is this....why not offer it to all (not free) but for a cost of crowns or ESO plus. No one has been able to articulate that. They keep responding that if that's happens then ESO plus doesn't make sense....O K...then buy and don't sub. No harm

Is why I don't argue....ESO plus should give me access to other crown store items cause, to me, that's silly. Let ppl buy, let ppl sub and some things just won't be rentable but it's all just licensed use anyways
Value changes as the game exists....subs for some were the only way the game would succeed....others would touch the game if it had a sub. Opening it up now allows more profits cause both types are buying.

Remove that from any feature, and you loose profit potential and actual cash

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Youve already been told 20 times why they cant put it on the store. People wont sub for it if they can just buy it off the store. It would have to be so expensive everyone would freak out at the cost. So THAT is why its a sub only perk.

Wanderinlost

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The game didnt bleed subs and thats why it went B2P. It was because they couldnt figure out how the monthly sub would work on consoles. Noone is trying to turn ESO into a sub only game. Other than some extra bank space for crafting mats nothing changes as far as non subscribers. So again more hyperbole. If you want the bag go out panhandle 50 cents a day. I mean come on I made more than 50 cents a day in the early 80s delivering newspapers.

Them not putting this on the crown store will cost me far less in the long run. If you are suggesting I am too poor to pay for a sub you are wrong. I usually have a few subs at any given time, I have even been subbed to ESO for 6 months since B2P launched and may very well again in the future. However do not expect me to say nothing while they start restricting features. That's not what most people here now signed up for. Doing something like this turns one of the best monetization models in the industry into one far less attractive.

strikeback1247

Never in my gaming career have I ever seen such a heated discussion about inventory space.

All I'm seeing here is people not being able to control their hoarding addiction

medusasfolly

I'm not particularly married to either payment route. But forcing people to invalidate their DLC purchase investments to obtain a game feature is just wrong. For me, it instills a sense of mistrust for the company.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Wanderinlost wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

The game didnt bleed subs and thats why it went B2P. It was because they couldnt figure out how the monthly sub would work on consoles. Noone is trying to turn ESO into a sub only game. Other than some extra bank space for crafting mats nothing changes as far as non subscribers. So again more hyperbole. If you want the bag go out panhandle 50 cents a day. I mean come on I made more than 50 cents a day in the early 80s delivering newspapers.

Them not putting this on the crown store will cost me far less in the long run. If you are suggesting I am too poor to pay for a sub you are wrong. I usually have a few subs at any given time, I have even been subbed to ESO for 6 months since B2P launched and may very well again in the future. However do not expect me to say nothing while they start restricting features. That's not what most people here now signed up for. Doing something like this turns one of the best monetization models in the industry into one far less attractive.

If you have the money then what is this entire thread for? You keep saying having a little extra bag space will kill the game. Come on man.

Shadowcub

I was under the impression that subscribers get a free one and the rest need to use crowns or whatever.
"Craft Bags, for storing nearly unlimited crafting materials, included with an ESO Plus membership"

Only think I'd like for Plus would be a monthly crown allotment for those that have longer pay periods *raises hand*.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

medusasfolly wrote: »

I'm not particularly married to either payment route. But forcing people to invalidate their DLC purchase investments to obtain a game feature is just wrong. For me, it instills a sense of mistrust for the company.

How is it a "feature" lol. It hold only crafting mats. Thats not a feature. PVP is a feature. If they charged to enter pvp like lotro does then id have an issue with it.

strikeback1247

medusasfolly wrote: »

I'm not particularly married to either payment route. But forcing people to invalidate their DLC purchase investments to obtain a game feature is just wrong. For me, it instills a sense of mistrust for the company.

How are you being "forced" exactly? :^)

Kwivur

Lock this thread, please. If you're too cheap for $15 a month, then buy some more mules. lol

TequilaFire

Whatever happens one thing is for certain, threads like these will drive the cost of crafting bags through the roof when and if they become available on the crown store.

We never learn...

NewBlacksmurf

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Youve already been told 20 times why they cant put it on the store. People wont sub for it if they can just buy it off the store. It would have to be so expensive everyone would freak out at the cost. So THAT is why its a sub only perk.

Again 100% your opinion as well as others.
Expensive is relative as at most it would be 5k in crowns


Maybe you all are just changing as a customer this the articles and market trend away from a subscriber model as you desire value but it's not present in the products offered. I'm not trying to sway this but let's be honest.

The issue isn't the bag, the issue is how you all see ESO Plus benefits.
You're holding onto a new feature and attempting to apply assumptions and theories to the actual value of the bag.

Let's break it down to basics.
The game costs $39 now new
That is approx 4-5k in crowns.
Subs is $15/month for access to $50 worth of DLC.
One High end motif and one assistant sale for 5k in crowns or approx $33
Bag upgrades sale for 1k in crowns for 10 slots on bank or riding

You're suggesting that this bag is worth 150k in crowns?
I think your math is extremely off as we are only talking about crafting items
Let's go with it tho.

So in essence you value the bag at $1,080??????
So you're saying that this one feature, in your opinion is worth a sub for 6 years???

That is literally the cost of a gaming laptop
Can you see why those who don't sub disagree with the point of view.
I would agree that the bag would be appropriately priced between 2000-5000 crowns but that's from a person who has set limits as this is virtual stuff. If I'm going to spend $1,000 on something, on a screen, it will either be a very nice new TV or BOSE surround sound or something which I already have a nice surround sound system and I can tell you it didn't cost $1,000 but I value that more than anything in this game as well as the TV because of what it offers.

So back on topic, the bag is a nice new feature. It's not valued appropriately at the price point you suggest tho you may be willing to spend that. The bag is a new feature just like the IC changes and Orsinium changes or TG and the upcoming DB changes. New features can be locked behind DLC but in this game, they aren't. Some experiences are locked tho so let's say this applies there.
So the whole uproar on bags is that it's being locked behind something that isn't even in the game. The other part is, any argument that suggests it shouldn't be available to a paying customer is just flat it wrong and absent of logic.

anitajoneb17_ESO

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So are you saying that outside of ESO plus, the bag cost should be monthly to be profitable.
OK
But why that?

That's my entire demonstration... read again... because one-time purchase will never beat monthly infinite purchases.

And yes, ZOS could offer the bag for 30-day rent in crowns. BUT it should be 1500 crowns = 15$ for 30 days to generate the expected income and not draw people away from subbing. But at this price, everyone woudl be better off subbing.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ESO Plus...the whole point of the program is to allow a customer who doesn't want to pay for content (funny ) to sub and never loose access while the sub is active.

.../...

Funny above because back then $15/month was fine for only access to DLC and base game but now all of a sudden there is a need for more.

You're getting free DLC access for the cost of 1500 crowns a month and other added benefits that you may or may not use but honestly, no other benefits are needed. Due to forum feedback tho, I'd say ZOS needs to look at changes
But let's be clear. Subbing shouldn't ever cause anyone to feel entitled for more than a paying customer who doesn't sub.

At this stage, I suggest you get some aspirin and some sleep, because you're really running around in circles.
Just a few points
- The whole point of the ESO+ program is to cover the cost of developing/maintaining ESO + making profits on top of that. That's the whole point. ESO+ exists because ZOS considered that it would bring them more money offering it than just offering B2P+crown store.
- If everyone has to pay 15$ to play that's fine, if all of a sudden playing can be enjoyed for 0$ of course there is a need for something more for those who who still pay, otherwise noone would.
- You don't get to judge if there are enough benefits included with ESO+. If the number of subs doesn't reach ZOS' objectives, it means there ar enot enough benefits and they need to add some.

As to your last sentence :

"But let's be clear. Subbing shouldn't ever cause anyone to feel entitled for more than a paying customer who doesn't sub".

Let's get this over with once and for all : People who pay for a night in a 3star hotel will get more than people who pay for a 2star hotel. I hope you agree on that. They are not better people and don't deserve more, they simply PAID MORE for a BETTER SERVICE.

People who declare that they spend more in crowns while not subbing than actual subbers are just behaving irrationally. They should sub. If you end up spending more money in your 2star hotel than in a 3star hotel you're just being stupid and should go to a 3star hotel.

I know some subbers enjoy some kind of moral "self-justification" of "supporting the game". They're free to feel that way, but the bottom line is, they PAY MORE thus they deserve a BETTER SERVICE. Which, to be honest, they haven't really got so far and which they will get now.

Note again that I am NOT subbing.

Titansteele

There has to be some real benefit for showing loyalty in the form of ESO+

All of the existing "benefits" amount to a hill of beans and is nowhere near value for money. I have subbed since the beginning, I am happy to support a game which I have got many hours of enjoyment from. Lets look at the existing benefits.

Access to all DLC game packs¹ - Fair enough but see the next point
Crowns to spend on the in-game store² - So far all I have done with these is buy the DLC so should I stop subbing I don't lose my DLC. Fluffy cosmetic tat is not interesting to me.
10% bonus to experience points gain¹ - Meh
10% bonus to crafting inspiration gain¹ - Meh - all my characters are maxed
10% bonus to trait research time¹ - Meh
10% bonus to gold acquisition¹ - Not too bad I suppose.

That is a lot of "meh" up there, when new players ask me if its worth it I honestly tell them no. I would not go as far as to say that the crafting bag would change my mind on that but it makes it a far more compelling case.

Aimora

GrumpStump wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, THE BAG BY ITSELF IS WORTH THE $15/MONTH. I'd pay that if it was offered as a standalone. The rest of the sub is now the gravy on top.


GrumpStump

Totally agree

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

The bag IS available to paying customers. Pay the sub boom you got it. I know you keep going on and on about everything you say is 100% factual and everything anyone else says is just a guess. Fact is you dont know anymore than we do what people spend. They went over this internally and decided the best option was a sub only perk. So you can keep crying about it or accept it. I dont know what else to tell you. Its not going to be on the store. It doesnt affect gameplay at ALL (like doesnt give you an advantage in PVP or PVE). Its simply added bank space with the restriction only crafting mats can go into it.

Lysette

snorlockb16_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, all this stuff about numbers of subscribers and such is guess work - it is not a fact - basically made up numbers. ZOS is not a company which would have to openly publish their numbers. So ZOS and probably their investors know about those, but all other are just guessing - i give a damn about those guesses.

No, not guesswork. Microeconomics, management accounting, and marketing are all based on understanding sales trends according to various specific sales models. You cannot state for certainty that a specific pricing system will yield a specific revenue, but you can certainly make a projection of your margins.

What I was referring to is, that no one can say how many subscribers ZOS has NOW; it was possible to do an estimation based on sold copies, when subscription was obligatory, and even then these numbers did not tell anything about how many actually stayed with the game for longer than 30 days. I have friends in a role play group, who bought the game at launch and did not want to play this game for longer than the 30 days coming with it, because they could not stand the state of the game. So these numbers do as well not establish a fact - copies sold is not amount of subscribers, not even 1 month after launch.

So most of these numbers are purely blown out of the .$$ and made up.

NewBlacksmurf

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So are you saying that outside of ESO plus, the bag cost should be monthly to be profitable.
OK
But why that?

That's my entire demonstration... read again... because one-time purchase will never beat monthly infinite purchases.

And yes, ZOS could offer the bag for 30-day rent in crowns. BUT it should be 1500 crowns = 15$ for 30 days to generate the expected income and not draw people away from subbing. But at this price, everyone woudl be better off subbing.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

ESO Plus...the whole point of the program is to allow a customer who doesn't want to pay for content (funny ) to sub and never loose access while the sub is active.

.../...

Funny above because back then $15/month was fine for only access to DLC and base game but now all of a sudden there is a need for more.

You're getting free DLC access for the cost of 1500 crowns a month and other added benefits that you may or may not use but honestly, no other benefits are needed. Due to forum feedback tho, I'd say ZOS needs to look at changes
But let's be clear. Subbing shouldn't ever cause anyone to feel entitled for more than a paying customer who doesn't sub.

At this stage, I suggest you get some aspirin and some sleep, because you're really running around in circles.
Just a few points
- The whole point of the ESO+ program is to cover the cost of developing/maintaining ESO + making profits on top of that. That's the whole point. ESO+ exists because ZOS considered that it would bring them more money offering it than just offering B2P+crown store.
- If everyone has to pay 15$ to play that's fine, if all of a sudden playing can be enjoyed for 0$ of course there is a need for something more for those who who still pay, otherwise noone would.
- You don't get to judge if there are enough benefits included with ESO+. If the number of subs doesn't reach ZOS' objectives, it means there ar enot enough benefits and they need to add some.

As to your last sentence :

"But let's be clear. Subbing shouldn't ever cause anyone to feel entitled for more than a paying customer who doesn't sub".

Let's get this over with once and for all : People who pay for a night in a 3star hotel will get more than people who pay for a 2star hotel. I hope you agree on that. They are not better people and don't deserve more, they simply PAID MORE for a BETTER SERVICE.

People who declare that they spend more in crowns while not subbing than actual subbers are just behaving irrationally. They should sub. If you end up spending more money in your 2star hotel than in a 3star hotel you're just being stupid and should go to a 3star hotel.

I know some subbers enjoy some kind of moral "self-justification" of "supporting the game". They're free to feel that way, but the bottom line is, they PAY MORE thus they deserve a BETTER SERVICE. Which, to be honest, they haven't really got so far and which they will get now.

Note again that I am NOT subbing.

That is 100% an assumption lacking all evidence.
A subscription is not more valuable than a paying customer. They are literally the same as in profits.
This is your dilemma as a subscriber, you assume that those who don't subscribe, buy one time. The whole point of the crown store and the removal of subscriptions was to offset the income potential of a subscription to open up the market for subscribers and paying customers. Just read the threads on views of over monetized crown store items.

Read the year old threads on ppl who said if this game removes a sub requirement, they are gone cause "they don't want to be forced to spend more than $15/month" or read the threads where existing subscribers stopped subscribing because they were spending more in crowns that the sub offered and being that they only subbed for doc but wanted to buy more, it didn't make sense.

People are spending a TON of money outside of a sub. Read the patch notes....they had to change the assistants cause they were suppose to only work with group members but they worked for anyone.

Let me correct you:
ESO plus is not to pay for cost of development. The results of ESO plus, crown store and new game sales are to cover development, new employees, hardware, software, rent, legal fees, insurance, leasing, travel, commercials, etc.

You also miss logic on the comment about if everyone could play for $0. It's not an IF...they can and do.
Those who play for $0 aren't in this discussion. They aren't paying customers, we are strictly discussing paying customers who either sub or buy crowns of an average of 1500/month or more.

On your hotel comment. That's subjective. The stars of a hotel aren't what the customer get, it's simply a rating on services offered. So let's use ESO plus bs crowns. Crowns cost more and have no benefits attached. ESO plus costs less and attach benefits. In a one month example $15 is $15. One give 1500 crowns and the other gives 1500 crowns, DLC access and other benefits.

Now the benefits aren't valuable if the subscriber doesn't use them or play in a way that those benefits are perceived as benefits.
Perception:

You perceive the rating of a hotel in stars and the higher price as better.
You also perceive ESO plus subscribers as better than those who just buy crowns.

This is all your opinion based on the type of customer that you are. That's the whole marketing strategy behind theses things but no customer is more valuable than the other. What establishes a valued customer is how much money they actually spend. The customer who stays at a 2 star hotel may stay more nights or buy other items that aren't included in the 2 star hotel but are included in the 3 star. If so, that customer is of higher value because of dollars spent.

Amenities and benefits only matter if you are using them. Then they are of value, if not, it's just some silly badge of no value. Honestly, it's a waste of money. That's where the ESO plus conversation is going. If you don't see value in something for you, don't buy it or stop spending money on it.

And lastly, subscribers don't pay more.
Let's not forget, I was a subscriber who spent no more than $15 a month until console launch. I moved to console and spent no more than $15/month the first 3-4 months.
Since December 2015 alone, I've spent $104 in crowns.
I'm sure ZOS would rather have $104 vs $75.
Sure some subscribers stay subbed and buy crowns but we are the same as far as profit to ZOS. If ZOS sees it in any other manner, I promise the company won't stay profitable and will be taken by another company like the Blizzard Activision situation way back.

So that's not a value point to not offer a bag....period that's silly.
And I know I spend less than many cause I'm very hesitant to buy

Sunburnt_Penguin

@ZOS_GinaBruno

FYI: if bags are available in the Crown Store then I'll be unsubbing

TerraPython

Im sorry! I may be a little ignorant to what has already been said here. But I couldnt posisbly read all that! ^^

I just wanted to chime in my bit;

The addition of the crafting bags is a GOOD THING - especially for plus members!

I have been asking myself recently, "What am I getting out of this?". The addition of the bag exclusively for plus members, builds value for people who are willing to subscribe.

Make it available for purchase to non-subs, would only reduce the value of the sub again.
People who pay for subs need this - its a much needed addition, that should not be changed or "nerfed".
I have members of my guild who are saying that they will take the sub in may, because the crafting bag makes it worthwhile - that is exactly the reaction that ZOS needs from this.

Leave it alone.

Tommy1979AtWar

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

FYI: if bags are available in the Crown Store then I'll be unsubbing

Good for you, if they don't become available I won't buy anymore crowns and spend my money elsewhere
See how that works both ways?

KcjAries78

Has Anyone actually done the MATH of the two models? Since ESO was down for maintenance I decided to excel the data. If a person was to pay the $12.99 Subscription since day one and another person just wanted to buy the DLC with Crowns, who saves more money? Based on the current rate of already released content and ZOS commitment to 1 a quarter. IF the Crown Buyer only buys 1 crown pack every DLC release for $39.99 for 5500 crowns to unlock the content, both people are pretty much paying the same amount of money over time.... Both models are similar dollar wise, just in a different package.

Of course Imperial City was 2500 cr, Orsinium 3000 cr, Thieves Guild 2000 cr.... Just for the base DLC... but what if you got the set including mounts and the pets... they cost more. Thieves Guild Collector Edition is 4000. There are a lot of other buying variables that can occur based on player to player. But isn't that the greatness of the two models, you get to pick what works for you? If your ONLY going to purchase the base DLC you will save more money.... Buy if you ever stop playing will owning the DLC be valued?

If you are a daily player ESO PLUS is a steal! 10% xp, 10% more gold, 10% faster crafting time, and you get your money back in the form of crowns? And I'm still counting on that Tiger Senche mount after 1 year. It's honestly a no brainier... I think I have only bought crowns once over Christmas because of all the new things that came out at once... buy now I have 6800 cr in the bank.... Do I want The Banker or The Merchant... I can't decide.

anitajoneb17_ESO

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

That is 100% an assumption lacking all evidence.

At this point you are even ready to pretend that 2+2=4 is 100% assumption and lacks all evidence.

I'll leave you to your tormented theories ;-)

VodkaVixen1979

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

FYI: if bags are available in the Crown Store then I'll be unsubbing

@Sunburnt_Penguin Oh such a petty little thing. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. All of us B2P players can just as easily say if it isn't in the crown store we won't continue to purchase DLC or crown store items. Our money speaks at the same volume as yours... but us B2P haven't stooped to that level of hate spewing childish tactics. Grow up man.

Sunburnt_Penguin

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

FYI: if bags are available in the Crown Store then I'll be unsubbing

Good for you, if they don't become available I won't buy anymore crowns and spend my money elsewhere
See how that works both ways?

You go, Glen Coco

Edit: forgot the emoji lolool

anitajoneb17_ESO

VodkaVixen1979 wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

FYI: if bags are available in the Crown Store then I'll be unsubbing

@Sunburnt_Penguin Oh such a petty little thing. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. All of us B2P players can just as easily say if it isn't in the crown store we won't continue to purchase DLC or crown store items. Our money speaks at the same volume as yours... but us B2P haven't stooped to that level of hate spewing childish tactics. Grow up man.

He/she's not petty or childish. Just being rational. Why rent something month after month when you can buy it at one and cheaper ? You on the other hand...