Wanderinlost wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I must say... well done @Wanderinlost for sticking this thread out, and good job on pushing some buttons.

Thanks, think it's time to call it a night though. :P Hopefully you will have more luck with this than I XD


Sort of blows my mind how so many are supportive of exclusivity when it offers them zero additional benefit. Like most of the population not having even the option to purchase a key feature is somehow a good thing.

I honestly think it's that most ESO+ members who have been defending ESO+ all this time have secretly felt it wasn't a good deal and wished there was something else. Now that something else, ANYTHING else, is coming to ESO+ as a benefit they want to protect that. They want it to remain an ESO+ benefit to justify the fact that they have subscribed and will remain subscribed.

And I completely get that perspective.

Yea I just don't see the exclusivity lasting. I've heard the mass cancelation story before between the b2p and sub switch. I ate alot of crow for them going from sub (preferred way for me) to b2p. I currently don't sub and dont see a crafting bag changing that.

I still don't think this will fly all that well on console, a main reason why this game dropped sub model in the first place. Only to hear a year later 'hey we added this badass perk for you and your team of ultimate badasses who you craft for- but you gotta sub for it and pay that live fee'.... yea idk how that'll work on console.

Color me skeptical but so far when ZoS has said x is definite we should expect y.

Gidorick wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I think many of us who are complaining about this benefit would be totally fine with that solution @EZgoin76 ! We don't mind paying for benefits. What we mind is the mafia-type tactics ZOS is using to get our money.

" Hey... you got this months 'protection' money? If not... somethin' bad is gonna happen your inventory" *softly claps fist in the palm of the other hand*

And good job on the Auction Horse call-back mate. Made me chuckle.

Uh, they change something with your inventory with dark brotherhood for non-subscribers? That's new to me, pls explain

Ah, I see what you're doing there Destruent but the fact is they ARE changing the inventory SYSTEM in Dark Brotherhood update. They are adding Crafting Bags. This is a fix to, what many players feel, is a terrible inventory system.

No, it doesn't change your inventory if you NOT subscribe. I played with this inventory for over 2 years now and it works. You can get a better inventory if you subscribe. But your inventory doesn't get worse if you do not subscribe. That's a big difference.

How is it unfair ? Sub players get a new perk and free players stay exactly like we are right now. It's not like they are removing something from you...

Destruent wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I think many of us who are complaining about this benefit would be totally fine with that solution @EZgoin76 ! We don't mind paying for benefits. What we mind is the mafia-type tactics ZOS is using to get our money.

" Hey... you got this months 'protection' money? If not... somethin' bad is gonna happen your inventory" *softly claps fist in the palm of the other hand*

And good job on the Auction Horse call-back mate. Made me chuckle.

Uh, they change something with your inventory with dark brotherhood for non-subscribers? That's new to me, pls explain

Ah, I see what you're doing there Destruent but the fact is they ARE changing the inventory SYSTEM in Dark Brotherhood update. They are adding Crafting Bags. This is a fix to, what many players feel, is a terrible inventory system.

No, it doesn't change your inventory if you NOT subscribe. I played with this inventory for over 2 years now and it works. You can get a better inventory if you subscribe. But your inventory doesn't get worse if you do not subscribe. That's a big difference.

Not really @Destruent since many of us have asked for a better inventory for quite a long time. For many of us the inventory is not good enough.

There are two arguments here. One is dependent on whether or not we agree that the inventory is something that needs "Fixing". If we disagree that it is, we can't really argue the merit of crafting bags as an ESO+ benefit because we disagree on the broken status of the inventory. You do, however, agree that it will be a better inventory. So we can work with that.

They are holding back a better inventory from those that do not subscribe. So you have to continually pay a monthly subscription otherwise your inventory will get/be worse. ZOS has finally recognized that inventory management needs help... but they have chosen to withhold a fix from players unless those players give them a monthly stipend.

Also, by a better inventory existing, the "base" inventory system becomes the worse system. If you DO subscribe but then unsubscribe your inventory will indeed become "worse".

If you don't see that as a sleazy practice then we are at an impasse of opinions.

Gidorick wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I think many of us who are complaining about this benefit would be totally fine with that solution @EZgoin76 ! We don't mind paying for benefits. What we mind is the mafia-type tactics ZOS is using to get our money.

" Hey... you got this months 'protection' money? If not... somethin' bad is gonna happen your inventory" *softly claps fist in the palm of the other hand*

And good job on the Auction Horse call-back mate. Made me chuckle.

Uh, they change something with your inventory with dark brotherhood for non-subscribers? That's new to me, pls explain

Ah, I see what you're doing there Destruent but the fact is they ARE changing the inventory SYSTEM in Dark Brotherhood update. They are adding Crafting Bags. This is a fix to, what many players feel, is a terrible inventory system.

No, it doesn't change your inventory if you NOT subscribe. I played with this inventory for over 2 years now and it works. You can get a better inventory if you subscribe. But your inventory doesn't get worse if you do not subscribe. That's a big difference.

Not really @Destruent since many of us have asked for a better inventory for quite a long time. For many of us the inventory is not good enough.

There are two arguments here. One is dependent on whether or not we agree that the inventory is something that needs "Fixing". If we disagree that it is, we can't really argue the merit of crafting bags as an ESO+ benefit because we disagree on the broken status of the inventory. You do, however, agree that it will be a better inventory. So we can work with that.

They are holding back a better inventory from those that do not subscribe. So you have to continually pay a monthly subscription otherwise your inventory will get/be worse. ZOS has finally recognized that inventory management needs help... but they have chosen to withhold a fix from players unless those players give them a monthly stipend.

If you don't see that as a sleazy practice then we are at an impasse of opinions.

they don't change the inventory management, they just increase the effective size of your inventory if you have crafting mats. You are not able to search stuff in your inventory or even sort it by some more categories. Those are needed aswell, imo much more than more space.
What about those subscribers who don't have any crafting mats at all? Should they complain bc they don't get anything at all with this change?

Gidorick wrote: »

They are holding back a better inventory from those that do not subscribe. So you have to continually pay a monthly subscription otherwise your inventory will get/be worse. ZOS has finally recognized that inventory management needs help... but they have chosen to withhold a fix from players unless those players give them a monthly stipend.

Now that's a *really* twisted way of seeing things.
With this "technique" you could qualify virtually *any* ESO+ advantage as a "paying fix".

Like...
ZOS has finally recognized that XP is too low in the game and offers the needed fix (+10%) as an ESO+ benefit !!!
or even...
ZOS has finally recognized that players need new content but offer extra content (DLC) only to ESO+ subscribers or for crowns !!!

and so on...

Inventory is fine as it is, it's not broken.
It will be easier with crafting bags but still manageable without them.

I agree with the OP. A lot of us never wanted the B2P concept to begin with and were happy paying for a sub. Then ZOS sold us on B2P, so we started buying Crowns and DLC. The crafting bag may not sound like such a big deal, but it's kind of a slap in the face to everyone who has spent hundreds on Crown Store stuff.

All ZOS needs to do is offer the crafting bag for like 2000 Crowns or something, and the whole controversy goes away.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

They are holding back a better inventory from those that do not subscribe. So you have to continually pay a monthly subscription otherwise your inventory will get/be worse. ZOS has finally recognized that inventory management needs help... but they have chosen to withhold a fix from players unless those players give them a monthly stipend.

Now that's a *really* twisted way of seeing things.
With this "technique" you could qualify virtually *any* ESO+ advantage as a "paying fix".

Like...
ZOS has finally recognized that XP is too low in the game and offers the needed fix (+10%) as an ESO+ benefit !!!
or even...
ZOS has finally recognized that players need new content but offer extra content (DLC) only to ESO+ subscribers or for crowns !!!

and so on...

Inventory is fine as it is, it's not broken.
It will be easier with crafting bags but still manageable without them.

If the ESO+ benefit is DIRECTLY addressing something players have complained about since just about the inception of the game then sure... you certainly could call it that. Because at that point it's not a perk, it's a fix.

It's not like we're not willing to pay for this fix, we're just not willing to continually pay for the fix.

And again. We disagree on the broken status of the inventory. This is more the disagreement than the ESO+ disagreement. If inventory weren't a terrible chore to deal with, and has been since the beginning, I wouldn't have as much of a problem. If we could buy additional inventory in the crown store (above and beyond inventory cap), this ESO+ benefit wouldn't be an issue for me.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I agree with the OP. A lot of us never wanted the B2P concept to begin with and were happy paying for a sub. Then ZOS sold us on B2P, so we started buying Crowns and DLC. The crafting bag may not sound like such a big deal, but it's kind of a slap in the face to everyone who has spent hundreds on Crown Store stuff.

All ZOS needs to do is offer the crafting bag for like 2000 Crowns or something, and the whole controversy goes away.

If you spent hundreds of dollars on Crowns, I don't think you care about 15$ for ESO+ ...

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I agree with the OP. A lot of us never wanted the B2P concept to begin with and were happy paying for a sub. Then ZOS sold us on B2P, so we started buying Crowns and DLC. The crafting bag may not sound like such a big deal, but it's kind of a slap in the face to everyone who has spent hundreds on Crown Store stuff.

All ZOS needs to do is offer the crafting bag for like 2000 Crowns or something, and the whole controversy goes away.

VERY succinct summary of pretty much everyone's feelings who is on the side of these bags as an ESO+ only benefit being a bad idea @Emma_Eunjung .

When ESO went B2P and the ESO+ benefits were wanting, I decided to drop ESO+ and buy with crowns so my game could be "complete" outside of the subscription. As long as I can buy for crowns the same benefits that ESO+ members get for "free", I'll be happy.

Subscribing now, after buying IC, Orsinium, and Thieves Guild seems kind of like retroactively making my DLC purchases a waste.

Mettaricana wrote: »

To cheap or poor for the sub end of story..

I don't expect to keep my benefits of electricity without paying the bill. Nor can I buy just my AC unit turned on and nothing else.

@Mettaricana gets the "didn't read" award too! Congratulations!

I need to find a trophy for this as I think I'm going to be passing out a lot of them...

I find this all to be hilarious to be honest. The B2P players want the bag and feel it's unfair that they with hold that content from them. But in all actuality, being and ESO+ member offers far to little. Other games that use a similar Sub/F2P system offers way more in the way of perks to their subscribers. Truth be it, you should feel lucky that ZOS hasn't added a lot to the sub perks over the past year.

Honestly, just let the ESO+ players feel like they actually are getting a perk that makes a difference. +10% xp isn't a whole lot. 1500 crowns doesn't really get you much if any thing. And having access to DLC's with out purchasing them is only marginally better. Since if something happens and your sub ends, you lose your access to those. Which is different from other games that as long as you where subbed when they released you have access for as long as the servers are active. So in reality, ZOS has been extremely generous to the B2P community in this game compared to other titles.

Xundiin wrote: »

I find this all to be hilarious to be honest. The B2P players want the bag and feel it's unfair that they with hold that content from them. But in all actuality, being and ESO+ member offers far to little. Other games that use a similar Sub/F2P system offers way more in the way of perks to their subscribers. Truth be it, you should feel lucky that ZOS hasn't added a lot to the sub perks over the past year.

Honestly, just let the ESO+ players feel like they actually are getting a perk that makes a difference. +10% xp isn't a whole lot. 1500 crowns doesn't really get you much if any thing. And having access to DLC's with out purchasing them is only marginally better. Since if something happens and your sub ends, you lose your access to those. Which is different from other games that as long as you where subbed when they released you have access for as long as the servers are active. So in reality, ZOS has been extremely generous to the B2P community in this game compared to other titles.

You just said other games: give full access to DLC even if you unsub as long as you subbed when DLC was released

and ZOS: doesn't, you lose access if you lose sub period

but somehow landed on: ZOS has been extremely generous?

I get that this would boost ESO+ to being a bit more worth it for some people, the point this thread is trying to make is exclusivity. Why can't ZOS offer it in the crown store or at least provide a less capacity version?

I now have no excuse as a crafter for not being able to craft right now because I'm not sure which character my materials are on....This is a punishment for subscribers