Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

Tommy1979AtWar

I don't sub but have probably supported the game more in DLC and crown purchases alone than a lot of subs ever have or will, it's been my personal choice and yes I do think subs should get something for subbing but honestly I think it should be something better than crafting bags, it's a sad state of affairs when all you guys have to really defend your subscription decision is crafting bags.

Inventory management is a major pain in this game and has been so since the beginning, convenient inventory management shouldn't be something you have to pay a monthly surcharge for.
While I agree with the OP in regards to it leaving the player in a distasteful position it's something which is becoming the norm for zos, they'll continue alienating more and more customers until they're eventually viewed as EA & Ubisoft by the majority and not the minority, I've already heard the term "Ubizos" on more than one occassion so people are already becoming aware to the fact they should be guarded if choosing to invest anything in them. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

I always enjoyed crafting and was working towards becoming a master crafter but previous zos decisions with "cosmetic" items have left a bad taste in my mouth, crafting is definitiley p2w in this game, you're blind if you don't see otherwise and whether you like it or not, it sets a bad precedent.

Just because crafting isn't your end game, it doesn't mean they won't eventually ruin whatever is.
Had I known that they were going to turn master crafting into a p2w situation I may have subbed from the start, I'd have saved a few bucks while renting DLC rather than paying more by buying it outright and I'd have bought rare motifs with "free" crowns rather than work towards them ingame.

Most of you have completely missed the points of the OP and went straight into attack mode.
It's as though zos has induced a stockholm syndrome mentality within most of you, "charge me more for minimal effort zos, I'll pay more for it upfront and defend your screwing me over to the death with poisonous keystrokes of virtual ink" lol

Personally I won't support their minimal efforts or defend their questionable service and attitude towards customers,
They have you fighting among yourselves and completely dividing the community over something that should have been a non issue at the games launch... it's laughable.
"Divide and conquer" is as the saying goes but god help them when you all find something to be collectively PO at them for in the future lol.

Good luck with the crafting bags guys, hope they're worthwhile for you all but I'll stick to just managing my inventory, paying a surcharge just for inventory space doesn't seem worth it to me.

Wanderinlost

Mojmir wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

rule no.1 about making friends and gaining trust on the forums
1.) dont make posts like this

What's making friends and gaining trust on the forums got to do with this thread?
They made a thread they had an issue about. Nothing to do with the other two things.

it was joke, much like the complaint.

theyve been saying they were adding these to the game for subbed players for how long?
now its an issue?
get real, subbed players deserve this, they've supported the game more than anyone.

Is there even one comment in the past 180 posts that suggested subs did not deserve the bag? If there is I must have missed it. As far as I can tell everyone, myself included think it is a great incentive. The issue is exclusivity, the entire half of the playerbase is already been paying through DLC for over a year and are restricted from purchasing it. While this may not be important to everyone it is to some. We are having an important QoL feature held back with no option to acquire it. It shouldn't be free, but it should be buyable with crowns. ESO is no longer a subscription game, we bought into it and continue to spend money on the understanding that we will have that flexibility B2P and DLC offers and not get things like this behind a paywall.

This was always an issue since it was announced, I just got tired of waiting for someone to call it out. Having not seen that happen I took the initiative.

khele23eb17_ESO

Sausage wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Me too, Ive chose DCLs instead of sub, hopefully they start to sell the bags via Crown Store, not to mention I thnk if you're unlocked all DLCs you should have the sub benefits.

Now that is an interesting thought @Sausage... all benefits BUT the 1500 crowns per month, I assume.

Woot, finally support from someone! I agree with 1500 Crowns.

If you didnt get the 1500 crowns youd be at a disadvantage compared to people who dont sub and buy dlcs with crowns. So that doesnt really count as a benefit... it makes things equal between the 2 payment options. The only real perk is the 10% xp buff. I dont think that alone is enough to convince anyone to sub.

STEVIL

Acrolas wrote: »

Can't wait to see the apologists do a 180 when sub costs rise or the complimentary crowns are reduced/removed.
And I'll say tough ***. The reward for blind loyalty is usually getting stabbed in the back eventually.

Huh?

As a rational being I expect costs will rise or benefits reduced for any service over time except for break-in exceptional pricing periods.

Rent goes up. Milk costs more. A 90m movie charges more for admission now than before.

Those are just realities, not betrayals.

Sausage

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Me too, Ive chose DCLs instead of sub, hopefully they start to sell the bags via Crown Store, not to mention I thnk if you're unlocked all DLCs you should have the sub benefits.

Now that is an interesting thought @Sausage... all benefits BUT the 1500 crowns per month, I assume.

Woot, finally support from someone! I agree with 1500 Crowns.

If you didnt get the 1500 crowns youd be at a disadvantage compared to people who dont sub and buy dlcs with crowns. So that doesnt really count as a benefit... it makes things equal between the 2 payment options. The only real perk is the 10% xp buff. I dont think that alone is enough to convince anyone to sub.

I think DLC unlockers what I think are loyalist, needs own kind of benefits at least.

SkoomaAddict420

That's what alts are for...

Volkodav

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

I don't sub but have probably supported the game more in DLC and crown purchases alone than a lot of subs ever have or will, it's been my personal choice and yes I do think subs should get something for subbing but honestly I think it should be something better than crafting bags, it's a sad state of affairs when all you guys have to really defend your subscription decision is crafting bags.

Inventory management is a major pain in this game and has been so since the beginning, convenient inventory management shouldn't be something you have to pay a monthly surcharge for.
While I agree with the OP in regards to it leaving the player in a distasteful position it's something which is becoming the norm for zos, they'll continue alienating more and more customers until they're eventually viewed as EA & Ubisoft by the majority and not the minority, I've already heard the term "Ubizos" on more than one occassion so people are already becoming aware to the fact they should be guarded if choosing to invest anything in them. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

I always enjoyed crafting and was working towards becoming a master crafter but previous zos decisions with "cosmetic" items have left a bad taste in my mouth, crafting is definitiley p2w in this game, you're blind if you don't see otherwise and whether you like it or not, it sets a bad precedent.

Just because crafting isn't your end game, it doesn't mean they won't eventually ruin whatever is.
Had I known that they were going to turn master crafting into a p2w situation I may have subbed from the start, I'd have saved a few bucks while renting DLC rather than paying more by buying it outright and I'd have bought rare motifs with "free" crowns rather than work towards them ingame.

Most of you have completely missed the points of the OP and went staright into attack mode.
It's as though zos has induced a stockholm syndrome mentality within most of you, "charge me more for minimal effort zos, I'll pay more for it upfront and defend your screwing me over to the death with poisoness keystrokes of virtual ink" lol

Personally I won't support their minimal efforts or defend their questionable service and attitude towards customers,
They have you fighting among yourselves and completely dividing the community over something that should have been a non issue at the games launch... it's laughable.
"Divide and conquer" is as the saying goes but god help them when you all find something to be collectively PO at them for in the future lol.

Good luck with the crafting bags guys, hope they're worthwhile for you all but I'll stick to just managing my inventory, paying a surcharge just for inventory space doesn't seem worth it to me.

You've bought three DLCs and how many crowns in how long? Not being snarky.I really am curious about around how much you have put into ESO.I've paid in two years $15.00 per month along with the initial output of $80.00 for the full game plus upgrade. Plus I've bought quite a bit of crowns during that time. I can bet it pretty much evens out between the both of us.So,I support this game more than most non-subs do,as do all other ESO+ members.Most non-subbers will buy the DLCs and some crowns and that's it pretty much,while subbers still pay every month,and many buy crowns as well every month along with costumes,mounts,and pets. It all adds up.I also have paid for each DLC though I didnt have to.Just in case I cant pay my sub for whatever reason that month or a few months.
Those who dont sub have a problem with the idea that subbers are important to ZOS,though I dont know why this is.
I commented about the descent among forum members to Gidorick.We both think is is really sad that the PvPers resent the PvErs,the non-subbers resent the subbers,etc.It really is sad.

Parrot1986

I've always subbed since this came out on console, even kept it going when I took a break for a couple months since I knew i was getting crowns for it as well. I don't do this because of some undying support for ZoS, I do it because the sub model in my eyes is the best one and you need to keep some exclusive benefits to make it this way.

Don't mean to try and teach anyone how to milk a Khajiit but I've paid £8.99 a month for 12 months so £108 a year plus what i paid one-off for the game and I get all the DLCs.
For that i've been given 18000 crowns over the year plus some small levelling boosts which are now pretty useless with characters at end game stage.

For me to get a similar amount of crowns from the store not subbing I would need to buy 3 lots of 5500 crowns at £31.99 a pop and end up paying £96 for it - only £12 less than sub. Add into that the released DLCs cost 11500 crowns so you only get 6500 for yourself where subs get them for anything else apart from DLCs. Other than the crowns theres not many useful benefits for ESO+ right now, crafting bags fixes that for me as inventory management is a pain.

Point i guess to this is people who haven't subbed and paid for everything separately have chosen the wrong option least cost efficient option and now something is coming out which is worthwhile benefit (not 10%xp) for subs base and they don't want to miss out but don't want to sub probably because of how much they have already spent or they don't agree with it in principle. Thats the risk people took in not subbing and buying ad-hoc.

Either way ZoS have been clear on this that crafting bags are for ESO+ so going back on that would create huge issues, also it's only right they're are some added benefits to subbing as this is your committed base.

Mojmir

A one time purchase of dlc is not the same as subscribing, you can pick and choose what you purchase,we have the whole game,which all dlcs are gone when you unsub.then we would have to purchase dlcs to get back what we we're already paying for.just wait it out,im sure ZOS will give in at some point and put them in the crown store,cause you know, everyones entitled. seems like everytime ZOS shows some kind of appreciation to customers,someone comes along crying "entitlement" of some kind.you know what? if i could id give you one of my bags off my 2 accounts just so the crying will stop.

Vaoh

Epona222 wrote: »

So... people who pay a sub and help provide the game with regular income shouldn't get anything good or useful because it's 'unfair' on those who don't. Try that approach at your local membership-only gym and see how far it gets you... smh.

ESO+ members get the benefit of multiple great in-game bonuses, access to all DLC content, monthly Crowns, and the satisfaction (clearly) of saying "I subbed so I'm better than you". That's cool and all, but let's see what ZOS really did here:

- Release console version *check
- Early massively discounted crowns so tons of players, specifically non-subs, would purchase them *check
- Sell three full fledged DLCs, a grand price of 7500 Crowns in total *check

Now they are making a very important feature, of all things CRAFTING BAGS (of which many players will place 500+ items into thanks to a constant expansion of mats every major update) Sub-only.

I have purchased 22,000 Crowns (three 5500 Crown packs during sale, one pack full price) and bought all three DLCs. I have very much supported ESO. There is obviously no way I will get ESO+. Why do I get screwed over for being a truly loyal customer because people like you?

It's stupid. Give your "loyal" subs a mount/pet or something. Remember how this happened in the past and it was great? The Crafting Bag is an essential feature for anyone who saves their crafting materials and is sick of having multiple pack mule characters.

If you're placing DLC on the Crown Store, this should be purchaseable too.

Wanderinlost

Volkodav wrote: »

You've bought three DLCs and how many crowns in how long? Not being snarky.I really am curious about around how much you have put into ESO.I've paid in two years $15.00 per month along with the initial output of $80.00 for the full game plus upgrade. Plus I've bought quite a bit of crowns during that time. I can bet it pretty much evens out between the both of us.So,I support this game more than most non-subs do,as do all other ESO+ members.Most non-subbers will buy the DLCs and some crowns and that's it pretty much,while subbers still pay every month,and many buy crowns as well every month along with costumes,mounts,and pets. It all adds up.I also have paid for each DLC though I didnt have to.Just in case I cant pay my sub for whatever reason that month or a few months.
Those who dont sub have a problem with the idea that subbers are important to ZOS,though I dont know why this is.
I commented about the descent among forum members to Gidorick.We both think is is really sad that the PvPers resent the PvErs,the non-subbers resent the subbers,etc.It really is sad.

I have yet to hear a satisfactory answer as to how this feature being exclusive will benefit ESO+ members? You are getting the feature. Do you get anything out of the availability being denied to the rest of the playerbase? We would have to pay for it and it would probably be around $50 because given the price of assistants it would be on a similar scale. So why are so many ESO+ members so insistent that nobody else should be able to buy this feature when it will not effect your gameplay in the slightest?

I have read nothing that indicates people have a problem with ESO+ members getting special benefits. On the other hand there is widespread perception that if non-subs had the ability to buy this feature it would somehow be a bad thing. Why?

If I resent subbers it is because in the MMO sphere there is a common elitist attitude that those who have chosen microtransactions, F2P, and B2P etc. are somehow inferior or less of customers than to those who rent their games as a service. When it comes down to it the subscription model failed catastrophically across the board and only a handful of games are able to survive on it out of a few hundred. ESO may perhaps be one of the few who can turn that around, although this is not the way to do it.

Egonieser

TL;DR for OP:

It's so unfair that i have to pay for stuff, so unfair that those who pay get something I don't! SO UNFAIR!

Have a word with yourself, seriously...

Wanderinlost

Egonieser wrote: »

TL;DR for OP:

It's so unfair that i have to pay for stuff, so unfair that those who pay get something I don't! SO UNFAIR!

Have a word with yourself, seriously...

See to paraphrase me properly you would actually have to read what I wrote.

I have paid plenty for this game and have no problem continuing to pay. Although why should only one segment of the population be able to buy this feature? The payment is not the problem it is the exclusivity.

ContraTempo

Pretty much the same arguments can be made on both sides for anything ESO+ gets that others do not. Whatever it is, it will be the one thing SOMEONE can't live without, and would regard the game as broken without it. Maybe not you, but someone will see it that way.

For example, I've seen long arguments about whether ESO+ getting an experience bonus was P2W or not, and therefore unfair. And on the other side I've seen lots of complaints from ESO+ subscribers that they get nothing worth subscribing for. Either way, it's always something.

DaveMoeDee

Sausage wrote: »

Me too, Ive chose DCLs instead of sub, hopefully they start to sell the bags via Crown Store, not to mention I thnk if you're unlocked all DLCs you should have the sub benefits.

DLC are very inexpensive compared to the cost of a sub. You really can't compare $48 (3 months sub) with 2500 crowns (the average DLC cost so far). Even without crown sales (can't beat 5500 for $24), it is still more than twice as expensive to get DLC through subs instead of purchasing outright.

The sub will be cost effective for a new player a year from now because there will already be 7 DLC and you are avoiding purchasing the backlog of DLC.

strikeback1247

Could someone please explain to me how crafting bags are p2w? How do you exactly "win" the game with these magical overpowered bags? I think we should start a "nerf crafting bags" thread cause they sound way too OP to me

Wanderinlost

ContraTempo wrote: »

Pretty much the same arguments can be made on both sides for anything ESO+ gets that others do not. Whatever it is, it will be the one thing SOMEONE can't live without, and would regard the game as broken without it. Maybe not you, but someone will see it that way.

For example, I've seen long arguments about whether ESO+ getting an experience bonus was P2W or not, and therefore unfair. And on the other side I've seen lots of complaints from ESO+ subscribers that they get nothing worth subscribing for. Either way, it's always something.

There is a major distinction between each pay method. ESO+ is all inclusive and all access. B2P/DLC is one time payment per transaction. Both have value and both classes of customer are important. Putting a major QoL feature behind ESO+ is a major problem for everyone in the B2P/DLC camp. Most of us are here and remain customers because of B2P and DLC. We expect to at the very least be able to have all the options of ESO+ although we do expect there to be a pricetag attached. ESO+ member may provide a higher revenue per customer, but there are more of us. How much more only Zenimax knows, but look at it this way, if this game did not go B2P where would it be right now? How much content would even be out at this point on the revenue ESO+ generates without its DLC and crown sales?

They are essentially choosing not to serve an entire half of their customer a much desired feature in order to get more to subscribe. That is not cool. There is nothing wrong with including more incentive for ESO+ but at the same time it benefits not one player to exclude one side of the ESO playerbase. Switching payment models for a single feature should be an option but not a necessity to get access. It is underhanded and lowers the value of all previous purchases. What use is DLC and crowns if you have full access? People have many reason for choosing how they pay but they should not be pushed into an arrangement they did not sign up for to get a major feature. Choice and flexibility is good, and it is(was) why ESO has made a rebound.

Melilotta

I'm not on the sub, but I've bought all the DLCs and more. Never had any bad feelings towards subscribers. I sometimes buy costumes, pets etc that I don't even use, simply to support the great game that I love. I choose this over subscription because of greater flexibility. I don't want to feel that my ability to play in Orsinium, for example, depends on my ability to renew the subscription on time. Got enough headache with deadlines at work. It just really hurts when people imply I'm less loyal or somehow a worse player because of that.

About the bag. I've got all crafts maxed for one or another of my characters. I somehow manage the bank and inventory space. Sure, I've been anticipating the craft bag and I'd be prepared to buy it in the shop, but if ZOS has decided to make it an ESO+ bonus, ok, it's for ZOS to decide. I'll just go on as I used to before and enjoy the game. ^_^

strikeback1247

Wanderinlost wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

Pretty much the same arguments can be made on both sides for anything ESO+ gets that others do not. Whatever it is, it will be the one thing SOMEONE can't live without, and would regard the game as broken without it. Maybe not you, but someone will see it that way.

For example, I've seen long arguments about whether ESO+ getting an experience bonus was P2W or not, and therefore unfair. And on the other side I've seen lots of complaints from ESO+ subscribers that they get nothing worth subscribing for. Either way, it's always something.

Most of us are here and remain customers because of B2P and DLC. We expect to at the very least be able to have all the options of ESO+ although we do expect there to be a pricetag attached. ESO+ member may provide a higher revenue per customer, but there are more of us. How much more only Zenimax knows, but look at it this way, if this game did not go B2P where would it be right now? How much content would even be out at this point on the revenue ESO+ generates without its DLC and crown sales?

But you can get all the ESO+ options and there is indeed a pricetag attached. For only €12.99 a month you can get all these bonuses! :^)

Mojmir

my retort is bolded,sorry im on my phone and it hates these forums

Wanderinlost wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

Pretty much the same arguments can be made on both sides for anything ESO+ gets that others do not. Whatever it is, it will be the one thing SOMEONE can't live without, and would regard the game as broken without it. Maybe not you, but someone will see it that way.

For example, I've seen long arguments about whether ESO+ getting an experience bonus was P2W or not, and therefore unfair. And on the other side I've seen lots of complaints from ESO+ subscribers that they get nothing worth subscribing for. Either way, it's always something.

There is a major distinction between each pay method. ESO+ is all inclusive and all access. B2P/DLC is one time payment per transaction. Both have value and both classes of customer are important. Putting a major QoL feature behind ESO+ is a major problem for everyone in the B2P/DLC camp.

this is your opinion,no facts. i could tell you that most of my guilds that are non-subbed are actually re-subbing because of this feature,BTW its also your opnion that it is "major". i thought the clouded senche mount was major,and i missed it,but im not crying about it.

Most of us are here and remain customers because of B2P and DLC. We expect to at the very least be able to have all the options of ESO+ although we do expect there to be a pricetag attached. ESO+ member may provide a higher revenue per customer, but there are more of us. How much more only Zenimax knows, but look at it this way, if this game did not go B2P where would it be right now? How much content would even be out at this point on the revenue ESO+ generates without its DLC and crown sales?

more opinion,no facts,and why would you expect to have all the options we as ESO+ members have? so a coach class passenger has the same ride as a first class? you noticed the "+" right?

They are essentially choosing not to serve an entire half of their customer a much desired feature in order to get more to subscribe. That is not cool. There is nothing wrong with including more incentive for ESO+ but at the same time it benefits not one player to exclude one side of the ESO playerbase. Switching payment models for a single feature should be an option but not a necessity to get access. It is underhanded and lowers the value of all previous purchases. What use is DLC and crowns if you have full access? People have many reason for choosing how they pay but they should not be pushed into an arrangement they did not sign up for to get a major feature. Choice and flexibility is good, and it is(was) why ESO has made a rebound.

still more opinions, no facts. half,1/4,1/8 doesnt matter what you say with out proof. the whole point of ESO+ is incentive to sub, what your arguing is justifying not being subbed. your already being rewarded for not subbing,YOU DONT PAY THE SUB TO PLAY!!

Tommy1979AtWar

Volkodav wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

I don't sub but have probably supported the game more in DLC and crown purchases alone than a lot of subs ever have or will, it's been my personal choice and yes I do think subs should get something for subbing but honestly I think it should be something better than crafting bags, it's a sad state of affairs when all you guys have to really defend your subscription decision is crafting bags.

Inventory management is a major pain in this game and has been so since the beginning, convenient inventory management shouldn't be something you have to pay a monthly surcharge for.
While I agree with the OP in regards to it leaving the player in a distasteful position it's something which is becoming the norm for zos, they'll continue alienating more and more customers until they're eventually viewed as EA & Ubisoft by the majority and not the minority, I've already heard the term "Ubizos" on more than one occassion so people are already becoming aware to the fact they should be guarded if choosing to invest anything in them. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

I always enjoyed crafting and was working towards becoming a master crafter but previous zos decisions with "cosmetic" items have left a bad taste in my mouth, crafting is definitiley p2w in this game, you're blind if you don't see otherwise and whether you like it or not, it sets a bad precedent.

Just because crafting isn't your end game, it doesn't mean they won't eventually ruin whatever is.
Had I known that they were going to turn master crafting into a p2w situation I may have subbed from the start, I'd have saved a few bucks while renting DLC rather than paying more by buying it outright and I'd have bought rare motifs with "free" crowns rather than work towards them ingame.

Most of you have completely missed the points of the OP and went staright into attack mode.
It's as though zos has induced a stockholm syndrome mentality within most of you, "charge me more for minimal effort zos, I'll pay more for it upfront and defend your screwing me over to the death with poisoness keystrokes of virtual ink" lol

Personally I won't support their minimal efforts or defend their questionable service and attitude towards customers,
They have you fighting among yourselves and completely dividing the community over something that should have been a non issue at the games launch... it's laughable.
"Divide and conquer" is as the saying goes but god help them when you all find something to be collectively PO at them for in the future lol.

Good luck with the crafting bags guys, hope they're worthwhile for you all but I'll stick to just managing my inventory, paying a surcharge just for inventory space doesn't seem worth it to me.

You've bought three DLCs and how many crowns in how long? Not being snarky.I really am curious about around how much you have put into ESO.I've paid in two years $15.00 per month along with the initial output of $80.00 for the full game plus upgrade. Plus I've bought quite a bit of crowns during that time. I can bet it pretty much evens out between the both of us.So,I support this game more than most non-subs do,as do all other ESO+ members.Most non-subbers will buy the DLCs and some crowns and that's it pretty much,while subbers still pay every month,and many buy crowns as well every month along with costumes,mounts,and pets. It all adds up.I also have paid for each DLC though I didnt have to.Just in case I cant pay my sub for whatever reason that month or a few months.
Those who dont sub have a problem with the idea that subbers are important to ZOS,though I dont know why this is.
I commented about the descent among forum members to Gidorick.We both think is is really sad that the PvPers resent the PvErs,the non-subbers resent the subbers,etc.It really is sad.

I'm on console so I've only been around a year and not paid as much as you most likely but is why I stated "a lot" and not "most".
My initial outlay for the game was £80 GBP which is around $120 USD, 3 DLCs around £20 to £25 GBP each so maybe $30 to $35 USD each and then random crown purchases for not just myself but also family members accounts probably amounting to around £100 GBP or around $140 USD, again, more than a lot but probably not as much as most and yeah it certainly adds up.
Just to clarify, I have no issue with ESO+ members either, their decision to support in their way is their own just as my way was my own. I just don't feel inventory space is something anyone should have to pay a surcharge for and the way it's divided the community (again) could have been avoided.
It's akin to the PVP vs PVE or PC vs Console scenarios, both sides need to realise that all players contribute in one way or another and all sides have a right to voice concern.
While we're arguing amongst ourselves over who does more or pays more we're missing the bigger picture, we're all paying to support a game in which multiple areas are broken, for minimal effort when it comes to reskins and balancing etc and for convenience that shouldn't be an inconvenience in the first place.

strikeback1247

Wanderinlost wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

TL;DR for OP:

It's so unfair that i have to pay for stuff, so unfair that those who pay get something I don't! SO UNFAIR!

Have a word with yourself, seriously...

See to paraphrase me properly you would actually have to read what I wrote.

I have paid plenty for this game and have no problem continuing to pay. Although why should only one segment of the population be able to buy this feature? The payment is not the problem it is the exclusivity.

Simple. Crafting bags are a really good incentive for subbing, so all the crazy hoarders that seem to think this feature is so extremely important and required will subscribe. The rest of the players think these crafting bags are cool and all, but they will just continue playing as normal. Done.

By the way, how is payment not the problem? You can instantly become part of the "exclusivity" group by paying. If payment is not the problem, what are you even whining about?

anitajoneb17_ESO

I don't sub. I won't sub.
I want these bags, I won't have them.
I will be very jealous.

But it's OK, I think it's an excellent idea and incentive for subbers.

Farorin

Be strong @Wanderinlost , you will make it through this harsh time in your life somehow.

Sharee

Wanderinlost wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

Pretty much the same arguments can be made on both sides for anything ESO+ gets that others do not. Whatever it is, it will be the one thing SOMEONE can't live without, and would regard the game as broken without it. Maybe not you, but someone will see it that way.

For example, I've seen long arguments about whether ESO+ getting an experience bonus was P2W or not, and therefore unfair. And on the other side I've seen lots of complaints from ESO+ subscribers that they get nothing worth subscribing for. Either way, it's always something.

Putting a major QoL feature behind ESO+ is a major problem for everyone in the B2P/DLC camp. Most of us are here and remain customers because of B2P and DLC. We expect to at the very least be able to have all the options of ESO+ ...

It is not a major problem for everyone in the B2P/DLC camp (example:me). Whether it is a major QoL feature or just a convenience is subjective. And please do not use "we" when you really mean "me". You are not speaking in my name.

Frawr

Wanderinlost wrote: »

So purchasing the game, subbing for years, buying DLC, spending hundreds on crowns is not enough? Just because you are ESO+ now does not make you in anyway special. It doesn't mean many others have not paid and continue to pay though crowns or make them less of a customer.

Subbing makes us regular income = reliable income. Reliable income is valuable to a company. Finding a method to make income reliable is ideal for health of game.

That said,

10k crowns. for example, for a crafting bag is faaaaaarrrr more reasonable than 5k crowns for a banker with no guild bank access and a merchant that doesn't repair.

ArvenAldmeri

magnusthorek wrote: »

"ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

I am pretty much sure that you dont buy the DLC to support the game but just for the sake of being able to play DLC.

Yes and no. New content is good but the lack of quality recently doesn't fit exactly the pleasure of paying for them. But a purchase is a purchase, regardless the motive, it's money for the company and it's supportive anyways.

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

The motives do not come to us for free. Most people such as me just farm it the normal way. It makes me laugh that you think all subs are richie riches tho. I am currently unemployed looking for work
And stop being jealous because of the pets and costumes, we all know you want them real bad.

I never said you didn't go the hard way. I did that too. If I say about "richness" (broaden the concept, it's not literal) it's purely based upon exchange rates country-to-country. If subbers didn't get any crowns back I would be truly respecful, but you (or they) get a *** ton for free.

And I never liked the concept of pets. It's disturbing having something following me. I bought a costume recently with the surplus invested in the epic failure of TG DLC I paid 125 bucks for (see the reason of my frustration?) and it's not even THAT great

If you dont like something, its not great for you, you see it as fail, why the hell do you buy it then? No, I really dont see your frustration. "Oh, I am gonna buy this thing that looks pretty ugly and I dont like it, but I am gonna buy it so I can complain how expensive it was." What the hell, man. That is not how it works. BTW, I am reaaaaaaally not from USA. I belong to one of the countires that did not have the chance to register in the stupid 1 million dollar competition - in EU.

Buffler

I pay £8.99 per month whether there is anything I want to buy in crown or not. That is blind loyalty and not buying something when I want it (which I do anyway) Subbers get nothing of use in return for their "blind loyalty" as subbing costs far more than buying DLC's at one off cost. Not to mention we lose the DLCs if we unsub as we are basically renting them

Why is it unfair that those that pay extra get something (not gamebreaking or b2w in any way) in return for paying extra?

KanedaSyndrome

Well, they could make it a purchasable "Quality of Life" enhancement in the crown store and I'd happily spend 2-3k crowns on it or some such, for indeed, I do feel I'm entitled to aquiring this feature with out subscribing, as so far, I have been paying for DLCs, mounts and costumes.
So feeling that I can't aquire everything with discrete payments would annoy me and feel unfair. Isn't my method of paying for the game good enough?

Wanderinlost

this is your opinion,no facts. i could tell you that most of my guilds that are non-subbed are actually re-subbing because of this feature,BTW its also your opnion that it is "major". i thought the clouded senche mount was major,and i missed it,but im not crying about it.

Mojmir wrote: »

my retort is bolded,sorry im on my phone and it hates these forums

Wanderinlost wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

Pretty much the same arguments can be made on both sides for anything ESO+ gets that others do not. Whatever it is, it will be the one thing SOMEONE can't live without, and would regard the game as broken without it. Maybe not you, but someone will see it that way.

For example, I've seen long arguments about whether ESO+ getting an experience bonus was P2W or not, and therefore unfair. And on the other side I've seen lots of complaints from ESO+ subscribers that they get nothing worth subscribing for. Either way, it's always something.

There is a major distinction between each pay method. ESO+ is all inclusive and all access. B2P/DLC is one time payment per transaction. Both have value and both classes of customer are important. Putting a major QoL feature behind ESO+ is a major problem for everyone in the B2P/DLC camp.

this is your opinion,no facts. i could tell you that most of my guilds that are non-subbed are actually re-subbing because of this feature,BTW its also your opnion that it is "major". i thought the clouded senche mount was major,and i missed it,but im not crying about it.

Most of us are here and remain customers because of B2P and DLC. We expect to at the very least be able to have all the options of ESO+ although we do expect there to be a pricetag attached. ESO+ member may provide a higher revenue per customer, but there are more of us. How much more only Zenimax knows, but look at it this way, if this game did not go B2P where would it be right now? How much content would even be out at this point on the revenue ESO+ generates without its DLC and crown sales?

more opinion,no facts,and why would you expect to have all the options we as ESO+ members have? so a coach class passenger has the same ride as a first class? you noticed the "+" right?

They are essentially choosing not to serve an entire half of their customer a much desired feature in order to get more to subscribe. That is not cool. There is nothing wrong with including more incentive for ESO+ but at the same time it benefits not one player to exclude one side of the ESO playerbase. Switching payment models for a single feature should be an option but not a necessity to get access. It is underhanded and lowers the value of all previous purchases. What use is DLC and crowns if you have full access? People have many reason for choosing how they pay but they should not be pushed into an arrangement they did not sign up for to get a major feature. Choice and flexibility is good, and it is(was) why ESO has made a rebound.

still more opinions, no facts. half,1/4,1/8 doesnt matter what you say with out proof. the whole point of ESO+ is incentive to sub, what your arguing is justifying not being subbed. your already being rewarded for not subbing,YOU DONT PAY THE SUB TO PLAY!!

1)If so many people you know are re-subbing then that would indicate that my opinion of it being major feature is indeed correct and others you know agree.

2)An airline customer does have the same options. The can choose to pay extra for an upgrade, they can buy better food, insurance etc. But this isn't an airline. It's a game, and its digital software run on servers. A plane has physical limitations and resources, and a game well there are few limitations and selling a particular feature is not one of them.

3) We pay for crowns to buy DLC and other good and we would pay for the crafting bag. ESO+ does not and is rewarded with crown stipend, bonuses, and soon a crafting bag. I base my opinions and observations on proof although I am not going to provide you with my receipts.

I have plenty of facts although the only people with hard facts are Beth/Zeni. However there is more than enough facts and history about B2P and subscriptions out there. Having spent the last 20 years playing online games and having watched the evolution of MMO monetization closely over the last 10 making an opinion on this matter is pretty straight forward. What they are doing here is screwing a segment of their clients into ESO+ by denying them a highly desirable QoL improvement we as customers have long requested.