Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »I'd be interested to see the sales numbers if they offered it as an option for all at a reasonable price (1500 crowns).
My guess is they'd make more than with subs tbh because even though I'd be clicking the purchase crowns button with gritted teeth and mumbling obscenities at having to purchase something that should be ingame anyway for free... I'd probably still buy it.
Its absolutely fair. ESO + subscribers dont really get any worthwhile perks. We just pay a sub out of blind loyalty. Its about time we got something useful
KanedaSyndrome wrote: »Ehm, you get crowns each month equivalent to the monthly fee if I'm not mistaken. So you're pretty much on a recurring crown purchase payment plan, and on top of that you get all content unlocked without a need for purchase + additional buffs like 10% reduction on research timers if I recall correctly.
strikeback1247 wrote: »KanedaSyndrome wrote: »Ehm, you get crowns each month equivalent to the monthly fee if I'm not mistaken. So you're pretty much on a recurring crown purchase payment plan, and on top of that you get all content unlocked without a need for purchase + additional buffs like 10% reduction on research timers if I recall correctly.
Wow! That sounds like an awesome deal! And the crafting bags will make it even better! Maybe you should, you know, subscribe
strikeback1247 wrote: »KanedaSyndrome wrote: »Ehm, you get crowns each month equivalent to the monthly fee if I'm not mistaken. So you're pretty much on a recurring crown purchase payment plan, and on top of that you get all content unlocked without a need for purchase + additional buffs like 10% reduction on research timers if I recall correctly.
Wow! That sounds like an awesome deal! And the crafting bags will make it even better! Maybe you should, you know, subscribe
KanedaSyndrome wrote: »strikeback1247 wrote: »KanedaSyndrome wrote: »Ehm, you get crowns each month equivalent to the monthly fee if I'm not mistaken. So you're pretty much on a recurring crown purchase payment plan, and on top of that you get all content unlocked without a need for purchase + additional buffs like 10% reduction on research timers if I recall correctly.
Wow! That sounds like an awesome deal! And the crafting bags will make it even better! Maybe you should, you know, subscribe
I would if I felt they offered me something I wanted. If I were to subscribe I'd quickly end up with far more crowns than I could ever spend, as almost everything that comes our is cosmetics, and I'm a limited customer in that department, yes, I do get a costume once in a while, but it's quite rare. And you can of course argue that I may end up subscribing because of the crafting bag, but I may also make like a donkey and put my heels into the ground out of pure stubbornness.
The bag is fair, and here is why:
- Subscribers keep the game funded. Yes you have bought the game, and some buy the occasional costume from the Crown Store, but to keep the game going the backers need funding (no one works for free!!!)
-
If that were true they would never have gone B2P. 4 DLC in a year and presumably a new one every quarter. The cost of upgrades such as the crafting bag itself. Not like we are asking to get it for free. A $50 bag bought buy 100k people is significant and who knows it could be higher than that in the long run.
- Having gone from subscription based to B2P, the game is now dependent on its remaining subscribers, and those who sporadically buy content - the latter of which is an unstable income. Making it more attractive to sub is an excellent business model, as it will ensure more subscribers.
How does the feature being available on the crown store make ESO+ any less attractive? How does the game doing B2P make it dependant on subscribers? If it could have depended on subscribers then it would not have had to go B2P. If anything the opposite is true and the game would be back to where it was without B2P/DLC sales. I will agree making the sub more attractive is good sense, but how does that equate to not selling it on the crown store?
- The perks from subscribing are bordering pointless, and sometimes annoying. Yes we have an extra 10% bonus for certain things - but outleveling areas faster than you can arrive to them isn't all that awesome.
1500mo/18k crowns per year, 10%gold/craft/xp, all access to content and crafting bag. Yeah real pointless.
- It is only a bag, which enables you to have more stuff! Character slots are going to be purchasable in Crown Store with the next DLC, so those who don't sub can make an extra mule if they really need it.
-muling went out of style in the D2 era. Tried it in ESO for the first time in 15 years and it was a whole day or two before I started to hate this game and its terrible lack of efficient inventory.
- It is no more Pay2Win than being able to buy motifs, crafting materials, soul gems, and other consumables from the Crown Store.
pay for more space= more loot = more sales = more gold = more purchases = more game power = more win
In general I wouldn't call it P2W although inventory always has been to a small extent.
All in all - Bring on the bags!!!
Wanderinlost wrote: »I am not saying that ESO+ should not get the bag, but why should us who have supported this game through buy to play be given the same option, to buy the crafting bag with crowns.
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"
Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »I'd be interested to see the sales numbers if they offered it as an option for all at a reasonable price (1500 crowns).
My guess is they'd make more than with subs tbh because even though I'd be clicking the purchase crowns button with gritted teeth and mumbling obscenities at having to purchase something that should be ingame anyway for free... I'd probably still buy it.
EVERY MMO I have played has had limited inventory with 'purchasable' upgrades... note I said 'upgrades' but nothing compared to the crafting bag the ESO+ is receiving... and should receive. Other MMOs if you want more space, you constantly have to buy more inventory slots... nothing was ever given 'for free'. If you want to be a hoarder, if you want to max all craft and keep every tiny crafting mat, then clearly you are spending enough time playing ESO that should justify becoming a subscriber anyway. If not, then you clearly aren't as devoted to this game as you claim. I seriously doubt there are that many non-subscribers that feel the same way as some others here clearly do... that players should receive something for nothing and that subscribers should continue to receive nothing for something.
Wanderinlost wrote: »this is your opinion,no facts. i could tell you that most of my guilds that are non-subbed are actually re-subbing because of this feature,BTW its also your opnion that it is "major". i thought the clouded senche mount was major,and i missed it,but im not crying about it.my retort is bolded,sorry im on my phone and it hates these forumsWanderinlost wrote: »ContraTempo wrote: »Pretty much the same arguments can be made on both sides for anything ESO+ gets that others do not. Whatever it is, it will be the one thing SOMEONE can't live without, and would regard the game as broken without it. Maybe not you, but someone will see it that way.
For example, I've seen long arguments about whether ESO+ getting an experience bonus was P2W or not, and therefore unfair. And on the other side I've seen lots of complaints from ESO+ subscribers that they get nothing worth subscribing for. Either way, it's always something.
There is a major distinction between each pay method. ESO+ is all inclusive and all access. B2P/DLC is one time payment per transaction. Both have value and both classes of customer are important. Putting a major QoL feature behind ESO+ is a major problem for everyone in the B2P/DLC camp.
this is your opinion,no facts. i could tell you that most of my guilds that are non-subbed are actually re-subbing because of this feature,BTW its also your opnion that it is "major". i thought the clouded senche mount was major,and i missed it,but im not crying about it.
Most of us are here and remain customers because of B2P and DLC. We expect to at the very least be able to have all the options of ESO+ although we do expect there to be a pricetag attached. ESO+ member may provide a higher revenue per customer, but there are more of us. How much more only Zenimax knows, but look at it this way, if this game did not go B2P where would it be right now? How much content would even be out at this point on the revenue ESO+ generates without its DLC and crown sales?
more opinion,no facts,and why would you expect to have all the options we as ESO+ members have? so a coach class passenger has the same ride as a first class? you noticed the "+" right?
They are essentially choosing not to serve an entire half of their customer a much desired feature in order to get more to subscribe. That is not cool. There is nothing wrong with including more incentive for ESO+ but at the same time it benefits not one player to exclude one side of the ESO playerbase. Switching payment models for a single feature should be an option but not a necessity to get access. It is underhanded and lowers the value of all previous purchases. What use is DLC and crowns if you have full access? People have many reason for choosing how they pay but they should not be pushed into an arrangement they did not sign up for to get a major feature. Choice and flexibility is good, and it is(was) why ESO has made a rebound.
still more opinions, no facts. half,1/4,1/8 doesnt matter what you say with out proof. the whole point of ESO+ is incentive to sub, what your arguing is justifying not being subbed. your already being rewarded for not subbing,YOU DONT PAY THE SUB TO PLAY!!
1)If so many people you know are re-subbing then that would indicate that my opinion of it being major feature is indeed correct and others you know agree.
2)An airline customer does have the same options. The can choose to pay extra for an upgrade, they can buy better food, insurance etc. But this isn't an airline. It's a game, and its digital software run on servers. A plane has physical limitations and resources, and a game well there are few limitations and selling a particular feature is not one of them.
3) We pay for crowns to buy DLC and other good and we would pay for the crafting bag. ESO+ does not and is rewarded with crown stipend, bonuses, and soon a crafting bag. I base my opinions and observations on proof although I am not going to provide you with my receipts.
I have plenty of facts although the only people with hard facts are Beth/Zeni. However there is more than enough facts and history about B2P and subscriptions out there. Having spent the last 20 years playing online games and having watched the evolution of MMO monetization closely over the last 10 making an opinion on this matter is pretty straight forward. What they are doing here is screwing a segment of their clients into ESO+ by denying them a highly desirable QoL improvement we as customers have long requested.
ESO+ needs a reason to get people to subscribe, this is perfect as far as I am concerned, I have been subscribing since the beginning of the game because I want to support the game, if this brings in more subscribers then that's good for the future of the game!
clocksstoppe wrote: »ESO+ needs a reason to get people to subscribe, this is perfect as far as I am concerned, I have been subscribing since the beginning of the game because I want to support the game, if this brings in more subscribers then that's good for the future of the game!
Too bad it will have the opposite effect for many people. I will never ever subscribe as long as this crafting bag remains sub only. I'm not promoting this disgusting thing.
clocksstoppe wrote: »ESO+ needs a reason to get people to subscribe, this is perfect as far as I am concerned, I have been subscribing since the beginning of the game because I want to support the game, if this brings in more subscribers then that's good for the future of the game!
Too bad it will have the opposite effect for many people. I will never ever subscribe as long as this crafting bag remains sub only. I'm not promoting this disgusting thing.
That's you prerogative of course but in game the general consensus is that it's a great plus and many of my friends/guildies will be resubbing for this feature - so well done to ZOS for making this a ESO+ exclusive
clocksstoppe wrote: »ESO+ needs a reason to get people to subscribe, this is perfect as far as I am concerned, I have been subscribing since the beginning of the game because I want to support the game, if this brings in more subscribers then that's good for the future of the game!
Too bad it will have the opposite effect for many people. I will never ever subscribe as long as this crafting bag remains sub only. I'm not promoting this disgusting thing.
That's you prerogative of course but in game the general consensus is that it's a great plus and many of my friends/guildies will be resubbing for this feature - so well done to ZOS for making this a ESO+ exclusive
clocksstoppe wrote: »clocksstoppe wrote: »ESO+ needs a reason to get people to subscribe, this is perfect as far as I am concerned, I have been subscribing since the beginning of the game because I want to support the game, if this brings in more subscribers then that's good for the future of the game!
Too bad it will have the opposite effect for many people. I will never ever subscribe as long as this crafting bag remains sub only. I'm not promoting this disgusting thing.
That's you prerogative of course but in game the general consensus is that it's a great plus and many of my friends/guildies will be resubbing for this feature - so well done to ZOS for making this a ESO+ exclusive
I can't blame you for doing it, but know this: You are setting up this precedent which might degenerate to something awful in the future. If the gap between subs and nonsubs widens too much (thanks to stuff like crafting bag), the community will suffer alot.
My 2 cents: say no to it while you can.
if this were true, youd know its eventually gonna be in the crown store anyways,consoles..hello?
clocksstoppe wrote: »ESO+ needs a reason to get people to subscribe, this is perfect as far as I am concerned, I have been subscribing since the beginning of the game because I want to support the game, if this brings in more subscribers then that's good for the future of the game!
Too bad it will have the opposite effect for many people. I will never ever subscribe as long as this crafting bag remains sub only. I'm not promoting this disgusting thing.
strikeback1247 wrote: »KanedaSyndrome wrote: »Ehm, you get crowns each month equivalent to the monthly fee if I'm not mistaken. So you're pretty much on a recurring crown purchase payment plan, and on top of that you get all content unlocked without a need for purchase + additional buffs like 10% reduction on research timers if I recall correctly.
Wow! That sounds like an awesome deal! And the crafting bags will make it even better! Maybe you should, you know, subscribe
^ This. Many people are stating how ESO+ already has a ton of benefits, and using it as an argument for why the bag will be OP. If subscribing is so incredible awesome and OP, why don't people just sub?
Wanderinlost wrote: »this is your opinion,no facts. i could tell you that most of my guilds that are non-subbed are actually re-subbing because of this feature,BTW its also your opnion that it is "major". i thought the clouded senche mount was major,and i missed it,but im not crying about it.my retort is bolded,sorry im on my phone and it hates these forumsWanderinlost wrote: »ContraTempo wrote: »Pretty much the same arguments can be made on both sides for anything ESO+ gets that others do not. Whatever it is, it will be the one thing SOMEONE can't live without, and would regard the game as broken without it. Maybe not you, but someone will see it that way.
For example, I've seen long arguments about whether ESO+ getting an experience bonus was P2W or not, and therefore unfair. And on the other side I've seen lots of complaints from ESO+ subscribers that they get nothing worth subscribing for. Either way, it's always something.
There is a major distinction between each pay method. ESO+ is all inclusive and all access. B2P/DLC is one time payment per transaction. Both have value and both classes of customer are important. Putting a major QoL feature behind ESO+ is a major problem for everyone in the B2P/DLC camp.
this is your opinion,no facts. i could tell you that most of my guilds that are non-subbed are actually re-subbing because of this feature,BTW its also your opnion that it is "major". i thought the clouded senche mount was major,and i missed it,but im not crying about it.
Most of us are here and remain customers because of B2P and DLC. We expect to at the very least be able to have all the options of ESO+ although we do expect there to be a pricetag attached. ESO+ member may provide a higher revenue per customer, but there are more of us. How much more only Zenimax knows, but look at it this way, if this game did not go B2P where would it be right now? How much content would even be out at this point on the revenue ESO+ generates without its DLC and crown sales?
more opinion,no facts,and why would you expect to have all the options we as ESO+ members have? so a coach class passenger has the same ride as a first class? you noticed the "+" right?
They are essentially choosing not to serve an entire half of their customer a much desired feature in order to get more to subscribe. That is not cool. There is nothing wrong with including more incentive for ESO+ but at the same time it benefits not one player to exclude one side of the ESO playerbase. Switching payment models for a single feature should be an option but not a necessity to get access. It is underhanded and lowers the value of all previous purchases. What use is DLC and crowns if you have full access? People have many reason for choosing how they pay but they should not be pushed into an arrangement they did not sign up for to get a major feature. Choice and flexibility is good, and it is(was) why ESO has made a rebound.
still more opinions, no facts. half,1/4,1/8 doesnt matter what you say with out proof. the whole point of ESO+ is incentive to sub, what your arguing is justifying not being subbed. your already being rewarded for not subbing,YOU DONT PAY THE SUB TO PLAY!!
1)If so many people you know are re-subbing then that would indicate that my opinion of it being major feature is indeed correct and others you know agree.
2)An airline customer does have the same options. The can choose to pay extra for an upgrade, they can buy better food, insurance etc. But this isn't an airline. It's a game, and its digital software run on servers. A plane has physical limitations and resources, and a game well there are few limitations and selling a particular feature is not one of them.
3) We pay for crowns to buy DLC and other good and we would pay for the crafting bag. ESO+ does not and is rewarded with crown stipend, bonuses, and soon a crafting bag. I base my opinions and observations on proof although I am not going to provide you with my receipts.
I have plenty of facts although the only people with hard facts are Beth/Zeni. However there is more than enough facts and history about B2P and subscriptions out there. Having spent the last 20 years playing online games and having watched the evolution of MMO monetization closely over the last 10 making an opinion on this matter is pretty straight forward. What they are doing here is screwing a segment of their clients into ESO+ by denying them a highly desirable QoL improvement we as customers have long requested.
Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »
No! Children suffering is unfair. You are just either cheap or poor.
Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »
so shouldnt we subscribers be complaining not the unsubscribed?
why is there 8 pages of discussion on who should get it?
smh