Crating Bag Exclusivity is Unfair

Masstershake

MissBizz wrote: »

Masstershake wrote: »

Anything you can get with the subscription so far you have been able to purchase for a 1 time fee. If that's the model they have used so far why should the crafting bag be any different?

Subscribers should get the bag for free

People who 1 time purchase stuff should be able to 1 time purchase bag.

Actually most of what subs get are not offered for a one time fee. Decreased trait research time. 10% extra gold. Constant 10% extra XP (although that's iffy since there are XP Scrolls and drinks).

I'm all for it being sub only. Yes, I subscribe. Many many people though I talk to do not subscribe because the perks aren't good enough. This is getting some folks to decide to subscribe.

By your logic, Subs should have access to the two merchants as part of their sub as well. (A convenience item that deals with inventory at the $50ish price point).

See here's where you're missing the point. For a one time fee i have access to crafting traits. Getting gold and getting xp. Sure its a slower rate but there is nothing u as a subscriber get that a 1 time purchase player cant have acess to.

Aimora

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

A well written concise post

Except it has no sources to back up the claims in it. If you seriously think your 13 EUR/ USD per month is more reliable income than buying crowns, then you are delusional to say the least. If that were the case, MMOs today would still all use mandatory subscribing, and guess what, almost none of them do, because it is a *** business model that is a failure.


Your fixed money per month is literally nothing compared to those people who buy hundreds worth of crowns constantly.
That's why everything is f2p these days with heavy orientation towards microtransactions.

Well thank you for you sweet assessment of me

I sub and buy crowns too so fit into both categories

anitajoneb17_ESO

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

A well written concise post

Except it has no sources to back up the claims in it. If you seriously think your 13 EUR/ USD per month is more reliable income than buying crowns, then you are delusional to say the least. If that were the case, MMOs today would still all use mandatory subscribing, and guess what, almost none of them do, because it is a *** business model that is a failure.


Your fixed money per month is literally nothing compared to those people who buy hundreds worth of crowns constantly.
That's why everything is f2p these days with heavy orientation towards microtransactions.

@exeeter702 ' statement is backed up by common sense.

Your statement that sub income is nothing as compared to crown store income is backed up by.... nothing at all.

Masstershake

Why do subs care if you can one time purchase the bag? If you get it as a eso+ perk how is it harming you in any way to allow someone else to 1 time purchase it?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Masstershake wrote: »

Why do subs care if you can one time purchase the bag? If you get it as a eso+ perk how is it harming you in any way to allow someone else to 1 time purchase it?

Lol... is it so hard to understand ? The bag is an incentive to subscribe. Why would you subscribe if you can have it without subscribing ?

Simple as that.

Note that the target audience of this ESO+ enhancement is NOT the current subscribers. It's meant to attract new subscriptions. And to keep current ones running, too.

Dubhliam

If you made this thread, I seriously doubt you would like to pay $30-$50 for crafting bags.

It is in no way P2W, and I am happy with ESO+ finally getting some incentive after a very long time of not being worth the payment.

clocksstoppe

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

A well written concise post

Except it has no sources to back up the claims in it. If you seriously think your 13 EUR/ USD per month is more reliable income than buying crowns, then you are delusional to say the least. If that were the case, MMOs today would still all use mandatory subscribing, and guess what, almost none of them do, because it is a *** business model that is a failure.


Your fixed money per month is literally nothing compared to those people who buy hundreds worth of crowns constantly.
That's why everything is f2p these days with heavy orientation towards microtransactions.

@exeeter702 ' statement is backed up by common sense.

Your statement that sub income is nothing as compared to crown store income is backed up by.... nothing at all.

It's backed up by the fact that this game dropped the mandatory sub in order to survive and hasn't shut down since it converted to MTX business model.

And common sense is not an argument.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Masstershake wrote: »

Why do subs care if you can one time purchase the bag? If you get it as a eso+ perk how is it harming you in any way to allow someone else to 1 time purchase it?

Because what is the point of an ESO+ benefit if people who don't sub can make a one time purchase of it? Sure DLC is the same way but that is way different. People missing out on extra inventory space is not the same as people missing out on DLC. Crafting bags need to stay ESO+ exclusive. End of story.

Sinolai

I have no intention of reading all 13 pages of this but one thing I find annoying her is ESO+ members saying how they have "earned a little extra" and those who buy stuff thourgh crown store are not supporting the game. I have bought all DLC and few other nice things from crowns store and I think that is how I have supported the game. If the crafting bag comes to crown store I am ready to pay for that too and support the game. The reason why I don't pay monthly fees is that I find it easier to manage my money usege when I have as little monthly payments as possible.

If you want more "ESO+ extra" I suggest adding some discounts for some ingame sercives. Like half price for respecing and hair cutting.

Masstershake

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Masstershake wrote: »

Why do subs care if you can one time purchase the bag? If you get it as a eso+ perk how is it harming you in any way to allow someone else to 1 time purchase it?

Because what is the point of an ESO+ benefit if people who don't sub can make a one time purchase of it? Sure DLC is the same way but that is way different. People missing out on extra inventory space is not the same as people missing out on DLC. Crafting bags need to stay ESO+ exclusive. End of story.

Because it would still be a eso+ perk? Free vs having to spend crowns to one time unlock...there is an additional perk for subscribing...FREE crafting bag. End of story

clocksstoppe

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Masstershake wrote: »

Why do subs care if you can one time purchase the bag? If you get it as a eso+ perk how is it harming you in any way to allow someone else to 1 time purchase it?

Because what is the point of an ESO+ benefit if people who don't sub can make a one time purchase of it? Sure DLC is the same way but that is way different. People missing out on extra inventory space is not the same as people missing out on DLC. Crafting bags need to stay ESO+ exclusive. End of story.

You get exp and gold bonus and crowns each month of subbing, there's your benefits. You can't make a one time purchase of those.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

I agree OP, inventory management is horrendous in ESO and they are essentially putting the fix behind a pay wall.

Anyway, I made a thread about this here:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1

Gidorick wrote: »

So, ZOS has announced that they are considering having crafting specific inventory as an ESO+ benefit. There are many ways this can be accomplished, my suggestion is as follows:

Crafting Bags could be items that take up one inventory slot, but can be opened to reveal that bag's contents and inventory. Crafting bags can be coded so that the crafting materials for that particular bag are automatically placed in that bag if that bag is in the players inventory when they harvest the material. Alternatively, players could place their previously gained items directly in the bag.These bags could be never-full bags so players could gather as much of the craft's materials as they want or they could simply be large enough to carry one stack of each material type for that particular craft. The bags should reject any items that are not crafting materials for their specific craft.

Each craft could have their own bag that could be purchased by ESO+ members. A player wanting to carry materials for all crafts could carry a total of 6 bags (and more if more crafting types are introduced!) and they would consume a total of six spaces.

These bags could be sold in an ESO+ exclusive section of crown store that has items that are only purchasable by ESO+ members. Once a player buys the bag, it is theirs. If a player leaves ESO+, they retain full rights and use of their Crafting Bags. Only their access to buy items from the ESO+ section of the Crown Store should be restricted. Bags shouldn't be able to be sold and they should be able to be freely moved from inventory to bank.

Let's assume the bags could be sold for 1500 Crowns each (and for what they offer that is probably a pretty fair price). A player who wants to subscribe to ESO+ for one month and buys all available Crafting Bags would spend 9000 Crowns on the one month of ESO+ and six crafting bags. A player who wishes to use their ESO+ Crowns could simply stay subscribed to ESO+ for six months and their monthly allotment of crowns would pay for the bags.

The Crafting Bags should not be the only items placed in the ESO+ section of the Crown Store. There could be a wide variety of items, pets, motifs, etc that are offered only to ESO+ members. ESO+ members could even be given a period of exclusivity on certain items by putting the item in the ESO+ section prior to offering the item in the public Crown Store.

For those of who you think this sounds familiar, these thoughts were previously expressed in my ESO+ Subscription Benefits Suggestion thread and my More Bags and Encumbrance Thread.

Thoughts?

......... You are seriously saying that a crafter bag is P2W ........... Wow some players really will whine about anything and call every new thing a P2W.

anitajoneb17_ESO

clocksstoppe wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

A well written concise post

Except it has no sources to back up the claims in it. If you seriously think your 13 EUR/ USD per month is more reliable income than buying crowns, then you are delusional to say the least. If that were the case, MMOs today would still all use mandatory subscribing, and guess what, almost none of them do, because it is a *** business model that is a failure.


Your fixed money per month is literally nothing compared to those people who buy hundreds worth of crowns constantly.
That's why everything is f2p these days with heavy orientation towards microtransactions.

@exeeter702 ' statement is backed up by common sense.

Your statement that sub income is nothing as compared to crown store income is backed up by.... nothing at all.

It's backed up by the fact that this game dropped the mandatory sub in order to survive and hasn't shut down since it converted to MTX business model.

And common sense is not an argument.

Common sense is greatly underrated.

You forget too easily that ZOS has MAINTAINED the sub model as an option. They wouldn't if it had not brought its fair share of income. At best, you have no clue and no information as to how the income generated by the game is spread between crown store and subs.

nemisan

OP: Sub up, you get enough with the box as it is....

Seraseth

It's been stated by several game companies that b2p/f2p often brings in more money than subs, but it's more erratic and unpredictable, so they can't make the same long term plans, which cuts down what they can do with the game.

So I can easily understand ZOS wanting to get more ppl subbing, and to do that, they need to make it worthwhile.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Well as I said before at the way begging of this thread............

The whole bloody reason they are adding crafting bags to begin with is to satisfy the players who been wanting more to ESO+ that's the whole reason the idea even came up to begin with is to give more to ESO+ and if "you players" who think crafting bags are P2W or unfair to non-subing players well all I have to say is quit. Just quit. Like all the bags are doing is freeing up space in your bag and bank spaces .... THAT'S IT ! That isn't game changing or giving players some divine power over other who don't have it it's just a way to free up some slots in your inventory and so player wont need a pack mule character jsut to hold stuff.

So please shut up about making it a 1 time purchase like DLC other wise ESO+ be back were it is now with 0 reasons to sub.

exeeter702

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

A well written concise post

Except it has no sources to back up the claims in it. If you seriously think your 13 EUR/ USD per month is more reliable income than buying crowns, then you are delusional to say the least. If that were the case, MMOs today would still all use mandatory subscribing, and guess what, almost none of them do, because it is a *** business model that is a failure.


Your fixed money per month is literally nothing compared to those people who buy hundreds worth of crowns constantly.
That's why everything is f2p these days with heavy orientation towards microtransactions.

I don't mean to be presumptious, but I'm inclined to believe you don't really understand the model.

There is potential to make more from cash shops but it is volatile in its very nature and supports the short term, and does little for the long term regarding update frequency and reliability. Not to be dismissive but perhaps do some research on the topic. A great starting point would be to look up the various interviews with the director/producer of ffxiv regarding the subscription model.

The game did not "succeed" as a subscription based mmo, this is no secret. But claiming it went b2p and therefore the subscription model is no longer desirable is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. The nature of this model is that you use the freemium or b2p option to expose your game to would be players and allow them to enjoy it, and once they have played and perhaps begin to be a regular player, try to convince them to subscribe via benefits and various perks. That is the balancing act and that is the end game for most of these type of games that offer a sub option. It's is absolutely the most important goal for income and the more subscribers a game has, the more it can gauge it's long(er) term plans.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Sinolai wrote: »

I have no intention of reading all 13 pages of this but one thing I find annoying her is ESO+ members saying how they have "earned a little extra" and those who buy stuff thourgh crown store are not supporting the game. I have bought all DLC and few other nice things from crowns store and I think that is how I have supported the game. If the crafting bag comes to crown store I am ready to pay for that too and support the game. The reason why I don't pay monthly fees is that I find it easier to manage my money usege when I have as little monthly payments as possible.

If you want more "ESO+ extra" I suggest adding some discounts for some ingame sercives. Like half price for respecing and hair cutting.

People who sub on a monthly basis have paid a lot more money than someone who has just bought the DLC for the most part. There are some who have bought a lot of crowns and DLC that may have spent more than a sub but that usually is not the case. I have been a ESO+ subscriber since it was first launched. That means I have spent nearly $180 on the sub alone by the time the bags release. I have also bought a couple crown packs. So overall I will have spent around $220 not including tax. A person who has not subbed and only buys the DLC has only spent around $55 assuming they bought the 5500 crown pack for $39.99 and a 3000 pack for $24.99. So a constant subscriber like me definitely deserves these bags more than someone who just supports the game by buying the DLC because we have spent a little over 3 times as much money as them. Yes buying DLC is still supporting the game but not nearly as much as an ESO+ subscription. And to the people who spend more on crowns than a sub clearly have enough money to sub so why not just put some of that money into a sub and be done with it. I see a lot of people who aren't subs saying that this is a great ESO+ perk.

Jaronking

Guys guess what their is a solution to everyone problem just sub once and when you unsub guess what.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

You'll still be able to access your items in the Craft Bag, but won't be able to add any new materials to it.

Emma_Overload

exeeter702 wrote: »

All I've gotten from this is that the OP is fundementally against subscriptions in general.

Why do I say that? Well the OP has stated many times how they support the game via crown store and dlc purchases, even to the point of claiming they spend equal if not more then a subscriber may in a month.

This makes me assume they simply do not feel the sub is worth it in general as there is nothing the sub offers to justify it. Well now there is, and if this player, who I'm going to assume has been playing for at least since the b2p transition, has been supporting the game and is willing to raise such a stink over it not being on the crown store, Im thinking it's pretty much a feature that would justify a sub to them.

Just ******* sub.

People seem to be making the argument of "what about non sub player A who has spent x amount of dollars since b2p launched? They are getting shafted!" Zos is not rewarding all players for playing and supporting the game, and thus how much a player has spent in game has nothing to do with this perk.

This perk is ZOS saying thank you to those that support the game is a concrete way, this is not some smug superiority stance, it's simply thst Zos prefers and values subscribers in that it's a much less volatile and much more reliable source of revenue and helps them plan what they can and can not do in the long run with updates and features.

ZoS wants people to sub, this is a fact, its also a fact that for alot of people (likely the OP as well) the incentive is simply not there. Adding it to the crown store will both undermine the subscription in a way as well as Zos shooting themselves in the foot. If they sell it for crowns as a one time buy, then months down the line players may once again not feel the need to subscribe since they have the perk already. This is common sense, and this is why the perk needs to be tied to the subscription.

The perk itslef is obviously not going to keep some one subscribed if they are bored of the game and want to take a break or quit, but if you are still enjoying the game entirely, the crafting bag is a nice QoL bonus that you may find you really do not want to play without, and in combination with the other bonuses just might tip would be subs to finally doing so.

It's is completely fair
It can not be a one time buy
You do NOT need it
If you like the game, just sub ffs or get over it.

What a lot of nonsense. If subscriptions had been a "reliable" source of income, ESO would never have had to become B2P in the first place! The ability to purchase and own ESO and DLC content was a huge selling point of "Tamriel Unlimited" when it launched. Now, by hiding important game content behind a subscription, ZOS is reneging on the deal we were sold while limiting our so-called "Unlimited" experience.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

clocksstoppe wrote: »

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

Masstershake wrote: »

Why do subs care if you can one time purchase the bag? If you get it as a eso+ perk how is it harming you in any way to allow someone else to 1 time purchase it?

Because what is the point of an ESO+ benefit if people who don't sub can make a one time purchase of it? Sure DLC is the same way but that is way different. People missing out on extra inventory space is not the same as people missing out on DLC. Crafting bags need to stay ESO+ exclusive. End of story.

You get exp and gold bonus and crowns each month of subbing, there's your benefits. You can't make a one time purchase of those.

You can buy xp scrolls. The gold increase is basically worthless since most of the money to be gained in the game is by selling to players. 1500 crowns are nice but I would rather have something to benefit me more than a mount or costume.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

All I've gotten from this is that the OP is fundementally against subscriptions in general.

Why do I say that? Well the OP has stated many times how they support the game via crown store and dlc purchases, even to the point of claiming they spend equal if not more then a subscriber may in a month.

This makes me assume they simply do not feel the sub is worth it in general as there is nothing the sub offers to justify it. Well now there is, and if this player, who I'm going to assume has been playing for at least since the b2p transition, has been supporting the game and is willing to raise such a stink over it not being on the crown store, Im thinking it's pretty much a feature that would justify a sub to them.

Just ******* sub.

People seem to be making the argument of "what about non sub player A who has spent x amount of dollars since b2p launched? They are getting shafted!" Zos is not rewarding all players for playing and supporting the game, and thus how much a player has spent in game has nothing to do with this perk.

This perk is ZOS saying thank you to those that support the game is a concrete way, this is not some smug superiority stance, it's simply thst Zos prefers and values subscribers in that it's a much less volatile and much more reliable source of revenue and helps them plan what they can and can not do in the long run with updates and features.

ZoS wants people to sub, this is a fact, its also a fact that for alot of people (likely the OP as well) the incentive is simply not there. Adding it to the crown store will both undermine the subscription in a way as well as Zos shooting themselves in the foot. If they sell it for crowns as a one time buy, then months down the line players may once again not feel the need to subscribe since they have the perk already. This is common sense, and this is why the perk needs to be tied to the subscription.

The perk itslef is obviously not going to keep some one subscribed if they are bored of the game and want to take a break or quit, but if you are still enjoying the game entirely, the crafting bag is a nice QoL bonus that you may find you really do not want to play without, and in combination with the other bonuses just might tip would be subs to finally doing so.

It's is completely fair
It can not be a one time buy
You do NOT need it
If you like the game, just sub ffs or get over it.

What a lot of nonsense. If subscriptions had been a "reliable" source of income, ESO would never have had to become B2P in the first place! The ability to purchase and own ESO and DLC content was a huge selling point of "Tamriel Unlimited" when it launched. Now, by hiding important game content behind a subscription, ZOS is reneging on the deal we were sold while limiting our so-called "Unlimited" experience.

........ It's just a bag that frees up inventory slots................ THAT'S IT !!!!!! Really why ??? Why are so many people butt hurt about a bag that just simply frees up a few inventory slots ?

clocksstoppe

exeeter702 wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

A well written concise post

Except it has no sources to back up the claims in it. If you seriously think your 13 EUR/ USD per month is more reliable income than buying crowns, then you are delusional to say the least. If that were the case, MMOs today would still all use mandatory subscribing, and guess what, almost none of them do, because it is a *** business model that is a failure.


Your fixed money per month is literally nothing compared to those people who buy hundreds worth of crowns constantly.
That's why everything is f2p these days with heavy orientation towards microtransactions.

I don't mean to be presumptious, but I'm inclined to believe you don't really understand the model.

There is potential to make more from cash shops but it is volatile in its very nature and supports the short term, and does little for the long term regarding update frequency and reliability. Not to be dismissive but perhaps do some research on the topic. A great starting point would be to look up the various interviews with the director/producer of ffxiv regarding the subscription model.

The game did not "succeed" as a subscription based mmo, this is no secret. But claiming it went b2p and therefore the subscription model is no longer desirable is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. The nature of this model is that you use the freemium or b2p option to expose your game to would be players and allow them to enjoy it, and once they have played and perhaps begin to be a regular player, try to convince them to subscribe via benefits and various perks. That is the balancing act and that is the end game for most of these type of games that offer a sub option. It's is absolutely the most important goal for income and the more subscribers a game has, the more it can gauge it's long(er) term plans.

I don't think you understand. ESO+ is a microtransaction. You buy it, if you want, and you get some boosts, some crowns, and DLC access. Even though it's called subscription in reality it's just a consumable item from the microtransaction store. It's not an actual subscription because they can't guarantee that you buy it. So in reality, subscription model failed, it's no longer used, except its name, perhaps to make the buyers of ESO+ feel like they are some sort of important group when in fact they just buy the same consumable item every month.

And this is the whole argument of the crafting bag. People who don't sub and don't like consumables want a one time fee for it. It's natural, because if they liked consumables they would just be "subbed".

exeeter702

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

All I've gotten from this is that the OP is fundementally against subscriptions in general.

Why do I say that? Well the OP has stated many times how they support the game via crown store and dlc purchases, even to the point of claiming they spend equal if not more then a subscriber may in a month.

This makes me assume they simply do not feel the sub is worth it in general as there is nothing the sub offers to justify it. Well now there is, and if this player, who I'm going to assume has been playing for at least since the b2p transition, has been supporting the game and is willing to raise such a stink over it not being on the crown store, Im thinking it's pretty much a feature that would justify a sub to them.

Just ******* sub.

People seem to be making the argument of "what about non sub player A who has spent x amount of dollars since b2p launched? They are getting shafted!" Zos is not rewarding all players for playing and supporting the game, and thus how much a player has spent in game has nothing to do with this perk.

This perk is ZOS saying thank you to those that support the game is a concrete way, this is not some smug superiority stance, it's simply thst Zos prefers and values subscribers in that it's a much less volatile and much more reliable source of revenue and helps them plan what they can and can not do in the long run with updates and features.

ZoS wants people to sub, this is a fact, its also a fact that for alot of people (likely the OP as well) the incentive is simply not there. Adding it to the crown store will both undermine the subscription in a way as well as Zos shooting themselves in the foot. If they sell it for crowns as a one time buy, then months down the line players may once again not feel the need to subscribe since they have the perk already. This is common sense, and this is why the perk needs to be tied to the subscription.

The perk itslef is obviously not going to keep some one subscribed if they are bored of the game and want to take a break or quit, but if you are still enjoying the game entirely, the crafting bag is a nice QoL bonus that you may find you really do not want to play without, and in combination with the other bonuses just might tip would be subs to finally doing so.

It's is completely fair
It can not be a one time buy
You do NOT need it
If you like the game, just sub ffs or get over it.

What a lot of nonsense. If subscriptions had been a "reliable" source of income, ESO would never have had to become B2P in the first place! The ability to purchase and own ESO and DLC content was a huge selling point of "Tamriel Unlimited" when it launched. Now, by hiding important game content behind a subscription, ZOS is reneging on the deal we were sold while limiting our so-called "Unlimited" experience.

You utterly and completely misunderstood what I meant by reliable. Almost as if you didn't even read the post.

Aimora

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

All I've gotten from this is that the OP is fundementally against subscriptions in general.

Why do I say that? Well the OP has stated many times how they support the game via crown store and dlc purchases, even to the point of claiming they spend equal if not more then a subscriber may in a month.

This makes me assume they simply do not feel the sub is worth it in general as there is nothing the sub offers to justify it. Well now there is, and if this player, who I'm going to assume has been playing for at least since the b2p transition, has been supporting the game and is willing to raise such a stink over it not being on the crown store, Im thinking it's pretty much a feature that would justify a sub to them.

Just ******* sub.

People seem to be making the argument of "what about non sub player A who has spent x amount of dollars since b2p launched? They are getting shafted!" Zos is not rewarding all players for playing and supporting the game, and thus how much a player has spent in game has nothing to do with this perk.

This perk is ZOS saying thank you to those that support the game is a concrete way, this is not some smug superiority stance, it's simply thst Zos prefers and values subscribers in that it's a much less volatile and much more reliable source of revenue and helps them plan what they can and can not do in the long run with updates and features.

ZoS wants people to sub, this is a fact, its also a fact that for alot of people (likely the OP as well) the incentive is simply not there. Adding it to the crown store will both undermine the subscription in a way as well as Zos shooting themselves in the foot. If they sell it for crowns as a one time buy, then months down the line players may once again not feel the need to subscribe since they have the perk already. This is common sense, and this is why the perk needs to be tied to the subscription.

The perk itslef is obviously not going to keep some one subscribed if they are bored of the game and want to take a break or quit, but if you are still enjoying the game entirely, the crafting bag is a nice QoL bonus that you may find you really do not want to play without, and in combination with the other bonuses just might tip would be subs to finally doing so.

It's is completely fair
It can not be a one time buy
You do NOT need it
If you like the game, just sub ffs or get over it.

What a lot of nonsense. If subscriptions had been a "reliable" source of income, ESO would never have had to become B2P in the first place! The ability to purchase and own ESO and DLC content was a huge selling point of "Tamriel Unlimited" when it launched. Now, by hiding important game content behind a subscription, ZOS is reneging on the deal we were sold while limiting our so-called "Unlimited" experience.

Not necessarily true there was speculation at the time that due to issues with the consoles launch having a fixed subscription across the platforms wasn't viable, so no one really knows the real reason sub only was dropped, and B2P was implemented with an option to sub still. So until someone can categorically prove the reason it all speculation in the long run

exeeter702

clocksstoppe wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

A well written concise post

Except it has no sources to back up the claims in it. If you seriously think your 13 EUR/ USD per month is more reliable income than buying crowns, then you are delusional to say the least. If that were the case, MMOs today would still all use mandatory subscribing, and guess what, almost none of them do, because it is a *** business model that is a failure.


Your fixed money per month is literally nothing compared to those people who buy hundreds worth of crowns constantly.
That's why everything is f2p these days with heavy orientation towards microtransactions.

I don't mean to be presumptious, but I'm inclined to believe you don't really understand the model.

There is potential to make more from cash shops but it is volatile in its very nature and supports the short term, and does little for the long term regarding update frequency and reliability. Not to be dismissive but perhaps do some research on the topic. A great starting point would be to look up the various interviews with the director/producer of ffxiv regarding the subscription model.

The game did not "succeed" as a subscription based mmo, this is no secret. But claiming it went b2p and therefore the subscription model is no longer desirable is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. The nature of this model is that you use the freemium or b2p option to expose your game to would be players and allow them to enjoy it, and once they have played and perhaps begin to be a regular player, try to convince them to subscribe via benefits and various perks. That is the balancing act and that is the end game for most of these type of games that offer a sub option. It's is absolutely the most important goal for income and the more subscribers a game has, the more it can gauge it's long(er) term plans.

I don't think you understand. ESO+ is a microtransaction. You buy it, if you want, and you get some boosts, some crowns, and DLC access. Even though it's called subscription in reality it's just a consumable item from the microtransaction store. It's not an actual subscription because they can't guarantee that you buy it. So in reality, subscription model failed, it's no longer used, except its name, perhaps to make the buyers of ESO+ feel like they are some sort of important group when in fact they just buy the same consumable item every month.

And this is the whole argument of the crafting bag. People who don't sub and don't like consumables want a one time fee for it. It's natural, because if they liked consumables they would just be "subbed".

I don't even know how to respond to this....

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

All I've gotten from this is that the OP is fundementally against subscriptions in general.

Why do I say that? Well the OP has stated many times how they support the game via crown store and dlc purchases, even to the point of claiming they spend equal if not more then a subscriber may in a month.

This makes me assume they simply do not feel the sub is worth it in general as there is nothing the sub offers to justify it. Well now there is, and if this player, who I'm going to assume has been playing for at least since the b2p transition, has been supporting the game and is willing to raise such a stink over it not being on the crown store, Im thinking it's pretty much a feature that would justify a sub to them.

Just ******* sub.

People seem to be making the argument of "what about non sub player A who has spent x amount of dollars since b2p launched? They are getting shafted!" Zos is not rewarding all players for playing and supporting the game, and thus how much a player has spent in game has nothing to do with this perk.

This perk is ZOS saying thank you to those that support the game is a concrete way, this is not some smug superiority stance, it's simply thst Zos prefers and values subscribers in that it's a much less volatile and much more reliable source of revenue and helps them plan what they can and can not do in the long run with updates and features.

ZoS wants people to sub, this is a fact, its also a fact that for alot of people (likely the OP as well) the incentive is simply not there. Adding it to the crown store will both undermine the subscription in a way as well as Zos shooting themselves in the foot. If they sell it for crowns as a one time buy, then months down the line players may once again not feel the need to subscribe since they have the perk already. This is common sense, and this is why the perk needs to be tied to the subscription.

The perk itslef is obviously not going to keep some one subscribed if they are bored of the game and want to take a break or quit, but if you are still enjoying the game entirely, the crafting bag is a nice QoL bonus that you may find you really do not want to play without, and in combination with the other bonuses just might tip would be subs to finally doing so.

It's is completely fair
It can not be a one time buy
You do NOT need it
If you like the game, just sub ffs or get over it.

What a lot of nonsense. If subscriptions had been a "reliable" source of income, ESO would never have had to become B2P in the first place! The ability to purchase and own ESO and DLC content was a huge selling point of "Tamriel Unlimited" when it launched. Now, by hiding important game content behind a subscription, ZOS is reneging on the deal we were sold while limiting our so-called "Unlimited" experience.

How do subs having crafting bags limit your experience in game? Does it make it so you can't do any content? No. Do they cause you to be at a disadvantage to other players? No. They don't limit anyone's experience. The simply enhance the subscriber experience. I have been fine with my current inventory for a long time now and I have absolutely no mule characters. My bank is filled with crafting mats as well yet I find that I don't need a lot of those mats anyway.

Aimora

clocksstoppe wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Aimora wrote: »

A well written concise post

Except it has no sources to back up the claims in it. If you seriously think your 13 EUR/ USD per month is more reliable income than buying crowns, then you are delusional to say the least. If that were the case, MMOs today would still all use mandatory subscribing, and guess what, almost none of them do, because it is a *** business model that is a failure.


Your fixed money per month is literally nothing compared to those people who buy hundreds worth of crowns constantly.
That's why everything is f2p these days with heavy orientation towards microtransactions.

I don't mean to be presumptious, but I'm inclined to believe you don't really understand the model.

There is potential to make more from cash shops but it is volatile in its very nature and supports the short term, and does little for the long term regarding update frequency and reliability. Not to be dismissive but perhaps do some research on the topic. A great starting point would be to look up the various interviews with the director/producer of ffxiv regarding the subscription model.

The game did not "succeed" as a subscription based mmo, this is no secret. But claiming it went b2p and therefore the subscription model is no longer desirable is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. The nature of this model is that you use the freemium or b2p option to expose your game to would be players and allow them to enjoy it, and once they have played and perhaps begin to be a regular player, try to convince them to subscribe via benefits and various perks. That is the balancing act and that is the end game for most of these type of games that offer a sub option. It's is absolutely the most important goal for income and the more subscribers a game has, the more it can gauge it's long(er) term plans.

I don't think you understand. ESO+ is a microtransaction. You buy it, if you want, and you get some boosts, some crowns, and DLC access. Even though it's called subscription in reality it's just a consumable item from the microtransaction store. It's not an actual subscription because they can't guarantee that you buy it. So in reality, subscription model failed, it's no longer used, except its name, perhaps to make the buyers of ESO+ feel like they are some sort of important group when in fact they just buy the same consumable item every month.

And this is the whole argument of the crafting bag. People who don't sub and don't like consumables want a one time fee for it. It's natural, because if they liked consumables they would just be "subbed".

What...?

Tryxus

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Now, by hiding important game content behind a subscription, ZOS is reneging on the deal we were sold while limiting our so-called "Unlimited" experience.

lol

or as they say in France:

mdr

It's a crafting bag, how is that limiting your game experience?

acw37162

Wanderinlost wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wanderinlost wrote: »

I am not saying that ESO+ should not get the bag, but why should us who have supported this game through buy to play be given the same option, to buy the crafting bag with crowns.

You know why. ESO + is 15 dollars a month. Honestly if you cant part with that every month then maybe stop whining about someone getting this because they are willing and capable.

I am not complaining or whining about ESO+ getting this. Seems no matter how many times I say it it does not get through to you. It is great ESO+ is getting this perk.

However there is no reason for it to be exclusive and not offered as a one time purchase through the crown store as well. The payment model for this game is B2P first, and ESO+ second. As a premium service ESO+ has significant benefits already, like 1500 crowns per month which goes far to offset that cost. Having this feature available for purchase on the crown store in no way detracts from the benefit it offers ESO+ customers.

For the record since this game was launched my average per month spending on ESO is $14, and a higher proportion was spent during B2P. This exclusivity is exactly the thing which will drop that average significantly. If I have no need to buy DLC, and ESO+ is the only way to get what I want I will pick 2 months of the year. That will actually save me money in the long run, that $14 average will be more like $3 a month going forward.

Subsribe and move on about your day.

Since they mentioned crafting bags they have said they be a subscriber feature.

If you play as much as you lead people to believe and craft enough to have inventory management issues.

If you want to buy a crafting bag the cost is an eso plus membership, it's 190 a year plus crows and DLC access.

They never told you it would be a crown store item essentially this qq about the cost of a sub.

If I was developer I would put them it the crown as a year rental for $250.00 each after reading a majority of the complaint hreads about this.

I really don't care if they sell them eventually or not I will have one either way but if you care enough to post 40 times about you care enough to pay 190 a year or your trolling its that simple.