ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

Well that's productive @ManwithBeard9 . Why are you even on here if you're not up for a discussion about topics pertaining to ESO?

Aw,so nice of you to remove my comments regarding ESO from your quote. You want infinite crafting bags, subscribe. If you dont want to subscribe, wait for the limited size bag in the crown store. Still not good enough, you can deal with it or quit. Plenty of options, all your choice.

My post was only referring to only the part I quoted. Telling someone to go elsewhere isn't very productive... but you seem willing to actually discuss this @ManwithBeard9 , so yay!

As far as I know And they have never said they are going to release limited space bags in the crown store. Honestly... if they announce that. I'll stop complaining about this ESO+ perk. If I am able to buy as many limited bag-spaces as I would like outside of the subscription, I would be happy. I am perfectly fine with benefits @ManwithBeard9 , but I'm not fine with shoddy gameplay design only getting fixed through a subscription.

In my More Bags and Encumbrance thread (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1) I suggested the following:

Gidorick wrote: »

Bag Suggestions

• No-Restriction Inventory Bags: These bags provide a set number of inventory spaces. These bags should, by default, fall under the Miscellaneous Category and maybe players should be allowed to "assign" a category to the bag so that the bag appears in that inventory tab.
  1. Large Backpack (2000 Crowns): Provides 30 Inventory Spaces
  2. Medium Backpack (1500 Crowns): Provides 25 inventory spaces
  3. Small Backpack (1000 Crowns): Provides 20 inventory spaces
  4. Heavy Sack (750 Crowns): Provides 15 inventory spaces
  5. Sack (500 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces
  6. Small Sack (250 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces
• Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
  1. Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)
  2. Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)
  3. Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)
  4. Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)
  5. Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)
  6. Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)
• Lock-Boxes: These little portable lock-boxes are for players who would like a way to prevent themselves from accidentally selling or deconstructing items. Placing an item in a lockbox will keep it safe!
  1. Locked Box (1000 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces
  2. Locked Purse (500 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

So I am completely fine paying for inventory space. I would even be ok with the infinite bags being an ESO+ perk. I made this point in the thread An idea for how "Crafting Bags" could be implemented for ESO+ members
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1 as long as non-subscribers can pay for similar perks as well.

I just loathe that an "efficient inventory" is being held hostage behind ESO+. Sub benefits should be items that enhance the game, not items that are required for efficient gameplay.

It is kinda odd, seeing as how many people have been able to play efficiently and horde efficiently without crafting bags up to this point. Crafting bags are no way a REQUIREMENT for efficient gameplay. There are people that never even begin the crafting part of the game and find it better to just pay people gold to craft whatever they need. And when you have up to 8 characters on an account and can routinely purchase more accounts for around $20 when the game is on sale on Steam and other sites, makes the "required" part moot, even more so if youre willing to buy them in the crown store. So you can have another 8 characters that can be pure mules and nothing else. Imagine that.

I've said it once @ManwithBeard9 , and I'll say it a thousand more times. Mules should NEVER be an answer to inventory management. the efficiency of an inventory system should be judged on how well one character can manage their inventory.

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

Well that's productive @ManwithBeard9 . Why are you even on here if you're not up for a discussion about topics pertaining to ESO?

Aw,so nice of you to remove my comments regarding ESO from your quote. You want infinite crafting bags, subscribe. If you dont want to subscribe, wait for the limited size bag in the crown store. Still not good enough, you can deal with it or quit. Plenty of options, all your choice.

My post was only referring to only the part I quoted. Telling someone to go elsewhere isn't very productive... but you seem willing to actually discuss this @ManwithBeard9 , so yay!

As far as I know And they have never said they are going to release limited space bags in the crown store. Honestly... if they announce that. I'll stop complaining about this ESO+ perk. If I am able to buy as many limited bag-spaces as I would like outside of the subscription, I would be happy. I am perfectly fine with benefits @ManwithBeard9 , but I'm not fine with shoddy gameplay design only getting fixed through a subscription.

In my More Bags and Encumbrance thread (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1) I suggested the following:

Gidorick wrote: »

Bag Suggestions

• No-Restriction Inventory Bags: These bags provide a set number of inventory spaces. These bags should, by default, fall under the Miscellaneous Category and maybe players should be allowed to "assign" a category to the bag so that the bag appears in that inventory tab.
  1. Large Backpack (2000 Crowns): Provides 30 Inventory Spaces
  2. Medium Backpack (1500 Crowns): Provides 25 inventory spaces
  3. Small Backpack (1000 Crowns): Provides 20 inventory spaces
  4. Heavy Sack (750 Crowns): Provides 15 inventory spaces
  5. Sack (500 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces
  6. Small Sack (250 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces
• Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
  1. Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)
  2. Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)
  3. Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)
  4. Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)
  5. Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)
  6. Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)
• Lock-Boxes: These little portable lock-boxes are for players who would like a way to prevent themselves from accidentally selling or deconstructing items. Placing an item in a lockbox will keep it safe!
  1. Locked Box (1000 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces
  2. Locked Purse (500 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

So I am completely fine paying for inventory space. I would even be ok with the infinite bags being an ESO+ perk. I made this point in the thread An idea for how "Crafting Bags" could be implemented for ESO+ members
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1 as long as non-subscribers can pay for similar perks as well.

I just loathe that an "efficient inventory" is being held hostage behind ESO+. Sub benefits should be items that enhance the game, not items that are required for efficient gameplay.

It is kinda odd, seeing as how many people have been able to play efficiently and horde efficiently without crafting bags up to this point. Crafting bags are no way a REQUIREMENT for efficient gameplay. There are people that never even begin the crafting part of the game and find it better to just pay people gold to craft whatever they need. And when you have up to 8 characters on an account and can routinely purchase more accounts for around $20 when the game is on sale on Steam and other sites, makes the "required" part moot, even more so if youre willing to buy them in the crown store. So you can have another 8 characters that can be pure mules and nothing else. Imagine that.

But! But! What about their immersion?!

I know you're making fun of immersionists here @IndyWendieGo , but this is pretty much my point. Taking advantage of design exploits to compensate for flaws does nothing for my sense of "fun". Some people may enjoy juggling multiple mules and multiple accounts to manage their inventory. I personally think the design of the inventory should be such that we don't have to look for ways to exploit the game's design to get by on the system they have provided.

I guess I'm just crazy that way.

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

If you dont like it and its game breaking, take your money elsewhere.

Well that's productive @ManwithBeard9 . Why are you even on here if you're not up for a discussion about topics pertaining to ESO?

Aw,so nice of you to remove my comments regarding ESO from your quote. You want infinite crafting bags, subscribe. If you dont want to subscribe, wait for the limited size bag in the crown store. Still not good enough, you can deal with it or quit. Plenty of options, all your choice.

My post was only referring to only the part I quoted. Telling someone to go elsewhere isn't very productive... but you seem willing to actually discuss this @ManwithBeard9 , so yay!

As far as I know And they have never said they are going to release limited space bags in the crown store. Honestly... if they announce that. I'll stop complaining about this ESO+ perk. If I am able to buy as many limited bag-spaces as I would like outside of the subscription, I would be happy. I am perfectly fine with benefits @ManwithBeard9 , but I'm not fine with shoddy gameplay design only getting fixed through a subscription.

In my More Bags and Encumbrance thread (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/162693/more-bags-and-encumbrance-concepts/p1) I suggested the following:

Gidorick wrote: »

Bag Suggestions

• No-Restriction Inventory Bags: These bags provide a set number of inventory spaces. These bags should, by default, fall under the Miscellaneous Category and maybe players should be allowed to "assign" a category to the bag so that the bag appears in that inventory tab.
  1. Large Backpack (2000 Crowns): Provides 30 Inventory Spaces
  2. Medium Backpack (1500 Crowns): Provides 25 inventory spaces
  3. Small Backpack (1000 Crowns): Provides 20 inventory spaces
  4. Heavy Sack (750 Crowns): Provides 15 inventory spaces
  5. Sack (500 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces
  6. Small Sack (250 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces
• Crafting Material Bags: These bags have enough spaces to hold one stack of every type of material for the specific craft. Only the specific craft’s materials can be placed within the corresponding bag.
  1. Alchemist Satchel (1500 Crowns)
  2. Blacksmith’s Haversack (1500 Crowns)
  3. Clothier’s Tote (1500 Crowns)
  4. Enchanter’s Purse (1500 Crowns)
  5. Provisioner’s Knapsack (1500 Crowns)
  6. Woodworker’s Duffel (1500 Crowns)
• Lock-Boxes: These little portable lock-boxes are for players who would like a way to prevent themselves from accidentally selling or deconstructing items. Placing an item in a lockbox will keep it safe!
  1. Locked Box (1000 Crowns): Provides 10 inventory spaces
  2. Locked Purse (500 Crowns): Provides 5 inventory spaces

So I am completely fine paying for inventory space. I would even be ok with the infinite bags being an ESO+ perk. I made this point in the thread An idea for how "Crafting Bags" could be implemented for ESO+ members
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212349/an-idea-for-how-crafting-bags-could-be-implemented-for-eso-members/p1 as long as non-subscribers can pay for similar perks as well.

I just loathe that an "efficient inventory" is being held hostage behind ESO+. Sub benefits should be items that enhance the game, not items that are required for efficient gameplay.

It is kinda odd, seeing as how many people have been able to play efficiently and horde efficiently without crafting bags up to this point. Crafting bags are no way a REQUIREMENT for efficient gameplay. There are people that never even begin the crafting part of the game and find it better to just pay people gold to craft whatever they need. And when you have up to 8 characters on an account and can routinely purchase more accounts for around $20 when the game is on sale on Steam and other sites, makes the "required" part moot, even more so if youre willing to buy them in the crown store. So you can have another 8 characters that can be pure mules and nothing else. Imagine that.

I've said it once @ManwithBeard9 , and I'll say it a thousand more times. Mules should NEVER be an answer to inventory management. the efficiency of an inventory system should be judged on how well one character can manage their inventory.

Well it works pretty damn good with one toon. I have plenty of v9-v16 mats of all textiles, more than enough upgrade mats for all textiles, every rank of potency runes along with the essence and aspect runes, full stacks of all provisioning mats, v15 solvents along with stacks of reagents, stacks of fishing supplies, plenty of motif pages to sell or use, and starting to collect pieces of gear I might want to use. All that on one toon and in my personal bank, neither of which are maxed out.

I guess you and I just disagree on what the standards for effective inventory management are.

Me too, Ive chose DCLs instead of sub, hopefully they start to sell the bags via Crown Store, not to mention I thnk if you're unlocked all DLCs you should have the sub benefits.

Sausage wrote: »

Me too, Ive chose DCLs instead of sub, hopefully they start to sell the bags via Crown Store, not to mention I thnk if you're unlocked all DLCs you should have the sub benefits.

Now that is an interesting thought @Sausage... all benefits BUT the 1500 crowns per month, I assume.

Volkodav wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Me too, Ive chose DCLs instead of sub, hopefully they start to sell the bags via Crown Store, not to mention I thnk if you're unlocked all DLCs you should have the sub benefits.

No,..you should only have "sub" benefits if you "sub".Which is why they are "sub" benefits.

If phrasing is the hurdle to this, they could change the benefits to "Loyalty" benefits and there are 2 ways to be a "loyal customer'

• Subscribe to ESO+
• Own all previous DLCs

Volkodav wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Me too, Ive chose DCLs instead of sub, hopefully they start to sell the bags via Crown Store, not to mention I thnk if you're unlocked all DLCs you should have the sub benefits.

No,..you should only have "sub" benefits if you "sub".Which is why they are "sub" benefits.

You also already get benefits from buying the DLCs. You get pets for owning Orsinium and Thieves Guild. And ZOS has stated you will get another special shiny when you buy Dark Brotherhood, i think they said it will be a mount.

Wanderinlost wrote: »

...
I was actually impressed with the ESO+ before this, mainly because of the generous crown stipend, I saw value in making a subscription if I expected to be playing a significant amount of time. However it was optional and I knew I would not feel like it was something I needed to pay to enjoy the game. Now they are putting a great feature they have been promising for years behind it.

They've been promising an infinite crafting bag to players for years? Really? Because I've been around for years and I've never seen it. I've seen A LOT of threads asking for it. But I've never seen a single post, thread or notice from Zenimax saying: "We have a great new feature called a crafting bag and we're going to make it available soon."

In fact: the very first mention I heard of a crafting bag came from Gina Bruno during an episode of ESO Live in which she specifically stated the bag would only be available to ESO subbers. That's the first I heard of a definite announcement of a crafting bag.

Gidorick wrote: »

... Now, I completely agree that ESO+ needs better sub benefits... In fact back in February 2015 I made this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/150450/eso-subscription-benefits-suggestions/p1

In that thread I suggest many ESO+ benefits they could add.

Gidorick wrote: »

ESO PLUS SUGGESTED LIST OF BENNEFITS

So... benefits COULD be added that give players perks and bonuses but don't make it so that an integral part of the game that is flawed can ONLY be fixed through a subscription.

Currently, as I've said several times before, the subscription really isn't a particularly useful service. The benefits, even the monthly crowns, have questionable value. I finally used all my mine to buy all the DLC so I could safely cancel my sub if I wanted to.

For many people, the sub has been a way to show support for ESO. We knew we weren't getting much but that's fine because we liked the game. Truly, this is a comment I hear in my two major guild chats again and again.

If Zenimax wants the subs to be anything more than a show of fan support, then they're going to have to put something in there that people want. Of the things you've listed, the only wants that seem attractive to me are the loyalty reward for DLC (which I think is a really nice idea and one that would have netted Zenimax a lot more subs), and the character slots. But with the latter, you're going to get the same screams of outrage because sub members get them for a monthly sub.

The crown store discounts and extra time? Meh. I see it, I buy it. I don't need days to think about it.

But you know what's really missing from your list is a free house (and I know, we don't have player housing and so it's not there). But if player housing was a thing in the game, and Zenimax really wanted to score on the subs, then they could offer free land (a no rent option if you subbed) or even a free house with upgrade kits included. Not the best house, but a nice starter house. Of course, additional houses would be sold in the Crown Store, too - but the subbers house would be unique.

Player housing, like character slots, will score some real money for Zenimax.

Seriously though. If you want the bags then subscribe. If you don't want to sub for them then you don't get the bags. It is how it is. People need to quit whining about it and grow up.

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

Why not have the craft bag in a rental form? Non ESO+ members pay a moderate weekly/monthly fee in order to use the crafting bag and ESO+ members don't have to.

I am currently running ESO+ but I buy all my DLC's as I don't need the little extra ESO+ offers, so I sometimes let it lapse, hence the bought DLC's, so I can still play all the content. This crafting bag is something I always wanted to see added, but if it's limited to ESO+ I won't have access to it whenever I want.

I think the rent for a crafting bag would be a good compromise, and for me would mean I could bridge those moments where I don't run ESO+.

They are kind of doing that @DDemon ... once you un-sub, you can withdraw items from the "infinite bag" but can't deposit items into that bag. Someone who has stacks and stacks of materials could, in theory, subscribe... dump all their mats into the new bag, then unsub for however long, and they would be able to still withdraw items as they needed.

And then,they could resub,fill the bags up again and unsub after that. They could do that infinitely.

Exactly @Volkodav...

But,I meant that not in a good way. It's a fairly warped way to use the game,..isnt it?

I don't mean it in a good way either @Volkodav . Just like how I've pointed out a player could subscribe for one month, play through the DLC and unsub and then they only pay $15 per DLC. PLUS they get 1500 crowns. So they essentially get the DLC for free.

I'm more pointing out a flaw in their design and a possible exploitative way to 'game' the game. I honestly don't understand so many of the decisions they make with ESO... in almost every aspect of the game.

I guess that's not why I'm not a "professional" game designer.

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

Why not have the craft bag in a rental form? Non ESO+ members pay a moderate weekly/monthly fee in order to use the crafting bag and ESO+ members don't have to.

I am currently running ESO+ but I buy all my DLC's as I don't need the little extra ESO+ offers, so I sometimes let it lapse, hence the bought DLC's, so I can still play all the content. This crafting bag is something I always wanted to see added, but if it's limited to ESO+ I won't have access to it whenever I want.

I think the rent for a crafting bag would be a good compromise, and for me would mean I could bridge those moments where I don't run ESO+.

They are kind of doing that @DDemon ... once you un-sub, you can withdraw items from the "infinite bag" but can't deposit items into that bag. Someone who has stacks and stacks of materials could, in theory, subscribe... dump all their mats into the new bag, then unsub for however long, and they would be able to still withdraw items as they needed.

And then,they could resub,fill the bags up again and unsub after that. They could do that infinitely.

Exactly @Volkodav...

But,I meant that not in a good way. It's a fairly warped way to use the game,..isnt it?

I don't mean it in a good way either @Volkodav . Just like how I've pointed out a player could subscribe for one month, play through the DLC and unsub and then they only pay $15 per DLC. PLUS they get 1500 crowns. So they essentially get the DLC for free.

I'm more pointing out a flaw in their design and a possible exploitative way to 'game' the game. I honestly don't understand so many of the decisions they make with ESO... in almost every aspect of the game.

I guess that's not why I'm not a "professional" game designer.

I wouldnt want to be a designer either. Making mods for Morrowind is about all I would even think of.No one countering my ideas.
As to ESO,I I wish it was one way or the other.Having it both is really getting unethical amongst the players. They begin to resent eachother over so many issues. PvPers resent PvErs,non-subbers resent subbers,and visa versa.It's sad,dont you think.

Yea, it is @Volkodav ... I find myself continually lamenting the B2P transition . But that is for another thread, I think.

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

DDemon wrote: »

Why not have the craft bag in a rental form? Non ESO+ members pay a moderate weekly/monthly fee in order to use the crafting bag and ESO+ members don't have to.

I am currently running ESO+ but I buy all my DLC's as I don't need the little extra ESO+ offers, so I sometimes let it lapse, hence the bought DLC's, so I can still play all the content. This crafting bag is something I always wanted to see added, but if it's limited to ESO+ I won't have access to it whenever I want.

I think the rent for a crafting bag would be a good compromise, and for me would mean I could bridge those moments where I don't run ESO+.

They are kind of doing that @DDemon ... once you un-sub, you can withdraw items from the "infinite bag" but can't deposit items into that bag. Someone who has stacks and stacks of materials could, in theory, subscribe... dump all their mats into the new bag, then unsub for however long, and they would be able to still withdraw items as they needed.

And then,they could resub,fill the bags up again and unsub after that. They could do that infinitely.

Exactly @Volkodav...

But,I meant that not in a good way. It's a fairly warped way to use the game,..isnt it?

I don't mean it in a good way either @Volkodav . Just like how I've pointed out a player could subscribe for one month, play through the DLC and unsub and then they only pay $15 per DLC. PLUS they get 1500 crowns. So they essentially get the DLC for free.

I'm more pointing out a flaw in their design and a possible exploitative way to 'game' the game. I honestly don't understand so many of the decisions they make with ESO... in almost every aspect of the game.

I guess that's not why I'm not a "professional" game designer.

I think it always comes back to WoW. If you do not have a large sub base you have failed in the eyes of your stockholders and corporate masters. I think they could actually get good sub numbers by simply continuing what they are doing as well as adding more bonuses as you suggested, but I doubt you can turn back time to make it work by using a restrictive strategy to get people into a long term sub. How will this kind of restrictive incentivization be any more successful than the original subscription? You talk about exploiting the system and after this afternoon of giving it some thought I almost feel it is the only logical choice now. Why ever buy DLC or a single crown pack over simply subbing one or two months a year to check out the new DLC then go dormant for another year? It will be 1/4 of what I would otherwise pay for DLC, and I would not become invested enough to buy anything else ever. No cosmetics, no utility, nothing. Instead of $100-$200 per year it is going to be more like $15-$30 and at the same time get the one feature I actually care about. The irony is by doing this they are turning at least one loyal customer into a hostile one. I cannot speak for others but I doubt I am alone on this.