IMPORTANT UPDATE! ZOS PLEASE reconsider your decision to no longer make FEMALE Light armor!

MornaBaine · April 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

svartorn wrote: »

No replies from ZOS yet..

They are not going to reply. They are doing what they said they are doing, and they are happy with what they are doing. If they change their mind, that will be the only time they will respond. Until then, silence means that they are not going to change anything and have no interest in discussing it.

Yep they out and out said they were doing this on ESO Live and Gina even said it with a straight face. Hard to believe, I know. I was floored. So it's not a glitch or a bug,or an oversight. It's a deliberate design choice on the part of ZOS. Mind boggling, but there it is.

Shelgon · April 2016

Samadhi wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

...
I am BEGGING you, PLEASE reconsider this terrible design decision wherein you simply "morph" the male designs to fit onto female character models. It's cutting corners in the most awful way. ...

In Skyrim and Fallout modding, we got the CBBE body mesh mod specifically in response to this kind of corner-cutting.

No mods in ESO. Hope that ZOS fixes this moving forward.

Yeah.. For corner cutting.. Exactly...

MornaBaine · April 2016

These don't look bad as they are Heavy Metal armor. I would not expect plate mail to conform to the female figure. But I suspect they still distort badly when worn by females with lager busts than the ones shown here. My main objection is to the terrible distortion of the Light CLOTH armors.

Though why the hell is that Altmer in the second pic wearing a spandex body suit under her armor with ZERO midrift protection???

nudel · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

They are doing this on purpose now? Is the intention of this to encourage people with female characters to buy more costumes from the crown store??

Except that female costumes in crown store are also affected by inflated chest bug.

^^This. I've been trying to put my finger on what it is about the crown store costumes I didn't like. I couldn't describe it, but it seemed that the male costumes looked better on my female character than the female ones for some reason. This explains it. I'm really dismayed by this change. Armor can be feminine without being sexist ZOS. I mean those pictures of Malacath and Trinimac clearly look like the male torso was just pasted in. I can't understand why anyone would do this on purpose.

Pepsi2853_ESO · April 2016

this is an outrage. i play only female characters. for a game that's planning arenas, player housing, a dark brotherhood dlc, and much more this is disgusting. plain old laziness. and i don't want anyone to tell me they need to do this to save money. game companies have financial records. unless they release financial records of them not making enough money then i'm not buying it. my speculation is ESO is making tons of money and just wants to be cheap. they're most likely millions upon millions in the positive.

well the only response to this is to stop buying crowns and cancel your subscriptions. we don't need to make a huge financial dent in them for them to change this terrible decision. we just need to make it so that the amount of money they'll be missing out by the people that do boycott this is worse than the amount of time and energy it would take for them to make female armor models.

edit; i'm tempted to make a separate thread on this with my response to inform people so it's not unseen by most on the 6th page.

Elsonso · April 2016

Pepsi2853_ESO wrote: »

this is an outrage. i play only female characters. for a game that's planning arenas, player housing, a dark brotherhood dlc, and much more this is disgusting. plain old laziness. and i don't want anyone to tell me they need to do this to save money. game companies have financial records. unless they release financial records of them not making enough money then i'm not buying it. my speculation is ESO is making tons of money and just wants to be cheap. they're most likely millions upon millions in the positive.

well the only response to this is to stop buying crowns and cancel your subscriptions. we don't need to make a huge financial dent in them for them to change this terrible decision. we just need to make it so that the amount of money they'll be missing out by the people that do boycott this is worse than the amount of time and energy it would take for them to make female armor models.

edit; i'm tempted to make a separate thread on this with my response to inform people so it's not unseen by most on the 6th page.

When you reply, it gets moved to the top page.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

MornaBaine wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

svartorn wrote: »

No replies from ZOS yet..

They are not going to reply. They are doing what they said they are doing, and they are happy with what they are doing. If they change their mind, that will be the only time they will respond. Until then, silence means that they are not going to change anything and have no interest in discussing it.

Yep they out and out said they were doing this on ESO Live and Gina even said it with a straight face. Hard to believe, I know. I was floored. So it's not a glitch or a bug,or an oversight. It's a deliberate design choice on the part of ZOS. Mind boggling, but there it is.

This is really, really weird. They're carefully placing bottles, boxes and tons of other clutter in random dlc caves, they're making awesome locations just for 1 quest (palace in Hew's Bane), yet they cant make decent models for characters that we see every time we log in.

khele23eb17_ESO · April 2016

This on purpose?? Lazy, greedy... fools. That is without a doubt one of the dumbest design decisions Ive seen in an MMO to date. Also, pretty damn insulting to women. Im a guy so who am I to talk but this does seem like discrimination. Deciding to make only male models of armors because its cheaper and anyway... who gives a damn about women players. Lets deny them gender identity because itll save us some time.

CherryCake · April 2016

I even stoped trying to make my characters look feminine in ESO... the more the armor "evolves" the more it covers my character like a man... The only "feminine" costumes we have are those awfully made slutty ones from the crown store and they say nothing to me, as I find them not elegant in the slightest. It almost seems like Zos pulled a joke on us for asking for more "revealing" clothes instead of doing something decent.

And the other one where it makes my characters boobies look as if they are poles apart. Do not even get me started on the costumes that include a corset... and definitely dont get me started on how female characters have broader shoulders than hips even with the shoulder slide at 1 and the hips at maximum!

MornaBaine · April 2016

As a dancer IRL who has both worn and actually MADE harem pants I can't say enough how ridiculous these are.

THESE are harem pants ya derps, ZOSQ

Notice ZOS NO thigh gap!

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

I even stoped trying to make my characters look feminine in ESO... the more the armor "evolves" the more it covers my character like a man... The only "feminine" costumes we have are those awfully made slutty ones from the crown store and they say nothing to me, as I find them not elegant in the slightest. It almost seems like Zos pulled a joke on us for asking for more "revealing" clothes instead of doing something decent.

And the other one where it makes my characters boobies look as if they are poles apart. Do not even get me started on the costumes that include a corset... and definitely dont get me started on how female characters have broader shoulders than hips even with the shoulder slide at 1 and the hips at maximum!

Yes, looks like theyre using slightly modified male body for these costumes.
And this is absolutely unacceptable. I can understand that there might be technical issues that cause lag etc, and balancing the game can be tricky, but failing at making female meshes for female characters is just disgusting. Why cant they hire artists that know how females look like in real life? Its pretty basic.

CherryCake · April 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

[Deleted for Inappropriate Content.]

Yes xDDDDDDDDDD I never understood truly why dont we have more feminine armors ;___; what is Zos afriad of? To not "objectify" women?
Zos you dont objectify us by giving us well... women clothes xD

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

[Deleted for Inappropriate Content.]

Yes xDDDDDDDDDD I never understood truly why dont we have more feminine armors ;___; what is Zos afriad of? To not "objectify" women?
Zos you dont objectify us by giving us well... women clothes xD

Well, in my opinion, neglecting women is just as bad as objectifying, if not worse. Its the same good old sexism... You know, that women must be covered and ashamed of their bodies. I realize that the real reason behind these weird meshes is not sexism, just laziness, but still.

Eiagra · April 2016

EDIT: Yes, I realize belatedly that my post was off-topic, as it focuses on heavier armors, not the light armor that is being discussed here. My apologies.

Original below in spoiler:

Um.

You guys realize "boob armor" would just get the wearer killed, right?

I can understand the complaint with light armor, as those are basically clothes. They shouldn't be expected to protect you from more than a stiff breeze. Boob those out all you like.

But the whole point of heavier armors are to deflect attacks away from vital organs. Metal "boob armor" would just increase the likelihood that, for instance, a blade would slide in towards the middle of the chest. Probably not a great idea, since there's some vital organs in that vicinity.

This isn't a "gender identity" issue. This is a "this style of armor makes no sense" issue, and I'm glad SOMEONE is breaking the MMO convention of fan service and pandering to try and add a touch of realistic sense to their designs.

That still doesn't account for swords and other weapons with pointy bits aimed at the user, making it increasingly likely that they will hurt themselves on their own weapon if it is blocked, or other such design flaws that would make it harder -- not easier -- to inflict damage (giant serrations on Daedric motif blades, for instance, would just catch on flesh, not slice it) or increase the likelihood of the weapon breaking (fantasy materials or no). But... meh... that argument has been hashed and re-hashed repeatedly, and is technically off-topic.

So, yeah. I'm in support of designs that don't pander to horny teenagers in the name of making designs that may be reasonably combat-ready. In the battlefield, no one cares if you have breasts or not. They only care whether or not you're competent with a weapon or spell.

Ultimately, this post has so many pages that my own contribution to it is likely to be overlooked.

Still. Sensible armor for the win.

And hey, there's always costumes if you feel the need to show off your assets to horny young ladies and gentlemen...

khele23eb17_ESO · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

[Deleted for Inappropriate Content.]

Yes xDDDDDDDDDD I never understood truly why dont we have more feminine armors ;___; what is Zos afriad of? To not "objectify" women?
Zos you dont objectify us by giving us well... women clothes xD

Well, in my opinion, neglecting women is just as bad as objectifying, if not worse. Its the same good old sexism... You know, that women must be covered and ashamed of their bodies. I realize that the real reason behind these weird meshes is not sexism, just laziness, but still.

Its still sexism if they think they can treat women like 2nd class customers.

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

Eiagra wrote: »

Um.

You guys realize "boob armor" would just get the wearer killed, right?

I can understand the complaint with light armor, as those are basically clothes. They shouldn't be expected to protect you from more than a stiff breeze. Boob those out all you like.

But the whole point of heavier armors are to deflect attacks away from vital organs. Metal "boob armor" would just increase the likelihood that, for instance, a blade would slide in towards the middle of the chest. Probably not a great idea, since there's some vital organs in that vicinity.

This isn't a "gender identity" issue. This is a "this style of armor makes no sense" issue, and I'm glad SOMEONE is breaking the MMO convention of fan service and pandering to try and add a touch of realistic sense to their designs.

That still doesn't account for swords and other weapons with pointy bits aimed at the user, making it increasingly likely that they will hurt themselves on their own weapon if it is blocked, or other such design flaws that would make it harder -- not easier -- to inflict damage (giant serrations on Daedric motif blades, for instance, would just catch on flesh, not slice it) or increase the likelihood of the weapon breaking (fantasy materials or no). But... meh... that argument has been hashed and re-hashed repeatedly, and is technically off-topic.

So, yeah. I'm in support of designs that don't pander to horny teenagers in the name of making designs that may be reasonably combat-ready. In the battlefield, no one cares if you have breasts or not. They only care whether or not you're competent with a weapon or spell.

Ultimately, this post has so many pages that my own contribution to it is likely to be overlooked.

Still. Sensible armor for the win.

And hey, there's always costumes if you feel the need to show off your assets to horny young ladies and gentlemen...

Actually, the thread is about LIGHT armor. And using male meshes in crown store costumes.
You're absolutely correct about boobplates, but you're missing the point of the thread.
In this game, light armor is worn by mages. And mages dont need armor to defend themselves.

acw37162 · April 2016

Who had this idea and who approved it?

Terms of Service prevent anyone from expressing what should happen one you figure out the who.

The lack of ability to make your character looks how you want in ESO is outstanding and not In a good way.

Edit:

For the record the the last two look terrible. I'm not 100% sure it's just the female versions that look horrible either.

nudel · April 2016

@Eiagra Someone didn't read the topic or even the title of this thread properly. The discussion is entirely about LIGHT ARMOR aka clothing. I've never known cloth to morph a female's body to that of a man's. And on the topic of protection, how protective do you imagine cotton to be exactly?

CherryCake · April 2016

@Eiagra I know that picture and it still makes me giggle a lot xD but the points are that:

it is still a fantasy game
light armor made out of cotton for example wouldnt save you that much with or without it being more revealing
they could have changed the mesh a tiny bit to make armors look slightly female. Not even the need to make something revealing but at LEAST morph it around a woman`s forms.

CherryCake · April 2016

@Nudel *high five* we both gave the same example at the exact same minutes xD

Eiagra · April 2016

Whoops! My apologies, @Nudel and others. Consider my statement redacted, if you would -- I would edit to eliminate the irrelevant sections, but there's since been quotes.

Pepsi2853_ESO · April 2016

Eiagra wrote: »

Um.

You guys realize "boob armor" would just get the wearer killed, right?

I can understand the complaint with light armor, as those are basically clothes. They shouldn't be expected to protect you from more than a stiff breeze. Boob those out all you like.

But the whole point of heavier armors are to deflect attacks away from vital organs. Metal "boob armor" would just increase the likelihood that, for instance, a blade would slide in towards the middle of the chest. Probably not a great idea, since there's some vital organs in that vicinity.

This isn't a "gender identity" issue. This is a "this style of armor makes no sense" issue, and I'm glad SOMEONE is breaking the MMO convention of fan service and pandering to try and add a touch of realistic sense to their designs.

That still doesn't account for swords and other weapons with pointy bits aimed at the user, making it increasingly likely that they will hurt themselves on their own weapon if it is blocked, or other such design flaws that would make it harder -- not easier -- to inflict damage (giant serrations on Daedric motif blades, for instance, would just catch on flesh, not slice it) or increase the likelihood of the weapon breaking (fantasy materials or no). But... meh... that argument has been hashed and re-hashed repeatedly, and is technically off-topic.

So, yeah. I'm in support of designs that don't pander to horny teenagers in the name of making designs that may be reasonably combat-ready. In the battlefield, no one cares if you have breasts or not. They only care whether or not you're competent with a weapon or spell.

Ultimately, this post has so many pages that my own contribution to it is likely to be overlooked.

Still. Sensible armor for the win.

And hey, there's always costumes if you feel the need to show off your assets to horny young ladies and gentlemen...

why are you so obsessed with realism? it's a game with goblins, dragons, giants, undead, magic, and vampires. we can't have any heavy armors for female figures in the name of realism, when we can still cast a spell for armor protection? last i checked there aren't any armor spells in real life. video games are supposed to have a degree of unrealistic things in them in order to make them fun and more customizable to all players.

hey, if you wanna be extremely realistic, have it so ZOS makes it so females can't equip heavy armor or 2 handed weapons. most women don't have the body type or strength or body type to do that either, so in the name of realism, women can only wear medium/light armor and cast magic now! yay, hooray for realism!!

CherryCake · April 2016

Eiagra wrote: »

Whoops! My apologies, @Nudel and others. Consider my statement redacted, if you would -- I would edit to eliminate the irrelevant sections, but there's since been quotes.

No problem, I think its with many of us that dont read entire threads so dont worry xD!

Eiagra · April 2016

@EstelioVeleth - I am just waking up also, so there's that. XD Usually I'm a bit more on-point, but someone hasn't had his breakfastings yet...

CherryCake · April 2016

@Eiagra I feel you xD I need to go to sleep now so I am also barely reading some words ;___;. Enjoy your breakfast!

LadyNalcarya · April 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

[Deleted for Inappropriate Content.]

Yes xDDDDDDDDDD I never understood truly why dont we have more feminine armors ;___; what is Zos afriad of? To not "objectify" women?
Zos you dont objectify us by giving us well... women clothes xD

Well, in my opinion, neglecting women is just as bad as objectifying, if not worse. Its the same good old sexism... You know, that women must be covered and ashamed of their bodies. I realize that the real reason behind these weird meshes is not sexism, just laziness, but still.

Its still sexism if they think they can treat women like 2nd class customers.

Well, a good point actually even though it might be not intentional.

Pepsi2853_ESO · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

[Deleted for Inappropriate Content.]

Yes xDDDDDDDDDD I never understood truly why dont we have more feminine armors ;___; what is Zos afriad of? To not "objectify" women?
Zos you dont objectify us by giving us well... women clothes xD

Well, in my opinion, neglecting women is just as bad as objectifying, if not worse. Its the same good old sexism... You know, that women must be covered and ashamed of their bodies. I realize that the real reason behind these weird meshes is not sexism, just laziness, but still.

Its still sexism if they think they can treat women like 2nd class customers.

Well, a good point actually even though it might be not intentional.

let's not forget this also alienates all the male players that have female characters, which is a large portion of their base.

nudel · April 2016

I don't have a problem with the removal of boobplate. The flattening of the chest is undesirable with cloth, but even that I could probably live with. What I cannot abide are the enormous pectorals and crazy inflated ribcages given by this "solution" of using the male torso model for female clothing.

Just look at these images by @KoshkaMurka

I don't know where/if Zenimax studied anatomy, but a woman's ribcage should not be twice as wide as her hips. Clothing can be unisex and STILL fit the female form.

If you want an example of how to properly adapt male clothing to female bodies, look no further than the Calyps and Nuska Heroic Form mod for Skyrim, which adapted the male versions of armor (sans boobplate) to female models, quite successfully. My personal favorite, their take on the Master Mage Robes pictured below:

This is what female cloth should look like, though of course with room for our more busty friends. That is a female torso unlike the abominations Koshka posted. Even if you decide to trim development time by not creating completely unique variations of motifs/costumes for each gender, you can at least trouble yourselves to fit them to a female body. I cannot believe that it saves that much time as you're already making several variations of helms to accommodate different races (Khajiit, Argonian, etc.).

Thevampirenight · April 2016

Thing of it is the crafting system is kinda a mess in eso I think.
What they need to do, is make armor just use one type of material, or Several, maybe bosmer armor requires Hides, bones, thread and make this the only crafting material, for all levels,
Daedric armor would require daedric hearts basically ebony ingots like it did in skyrim.
They just need to reduce a lot of the crafting stuff they don't need for the armors they have in game.
This might help with performance as well.
Also we want two gender versions of each outfit, I want female stuff for female charaters and male stuff for male charaters.
I can see sometimes a cross over between the two.

Abeille · April 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

EstelioVeleth wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

[Deleted for Inappropriate Content.]

Yes xDDDDDDDDDD I never understood truly why dont we have more feminine armors ;___; what is Zos afriad of? To not "objectify" women?
Zos you dont objectify us by giving us well... women clothes xD

Well, in my opinion, neglecting women is just as bad as objectifying, if not worse. Its the same good old sexism... You know, that women must be covered and ashamed of their bodies. I realize that the real reason behind these weird meshes is not sexism, just laziness, but still.

Its still sexism if they think they can treat women like 2nd class customers.

Well, a good point actually even though it might be not intentional.

It does kinda make me feel like they think I am not worth their time and resources, at least a little bit ;x

I am all for different styles and I've been defending the introduction of styles that look more loose, like the one used on the Vicious Death set. I defended these styles in the name of variety, since we have older sets that fit more closely to the body too. And, of course, because since my characters generally have small breasts, I didn't notice the deformation nearly as much.

But now that I learned that it is not for variety, that they are just cutting corners and deliberately made the decision to not make female meshes anymore, I'm unhappy.