Bashev wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Please make Dragon Blood a heal again -.-

Easy fix. Make Dragon Blood to heal for 33% from your health. I dont think it will be OP in PvE. Templars still can self heal better.

Basically, we want the functionality stated in the tooltip!

Bashev wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Please make Dragon Blood a heal again -.-

Easy fix. Make Dragon Blood to heal for 33% from your health. I dont think it will be OP in PvE. Templars still can self heal better.

This would make the most sense.

30k HP = 10k heals which BoL easily suprasses

16k HP (the avg in PvE) = 5k heals

Ishammael wrote: »

Kensei1318 wrote: »

You totally make alla stamina builds useless with this DLC...shame on you zenimax. You chance pvp in a ridicolous spamming of magika detonation and meteor... Shame on youuuu!

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

explain ... in the next dlc all the magika class will be buffed via champion points and all stamina class will fight against all player with 25% pysical res plus for champion point change

Kilandros wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Please make Dragon Blood a heal again -.-

Easy fix. Make Dragon Blood to heal for 33% from your health. I dont think it will be OP in PvE. Templars still can self heal better.

This would make the most sense.

30k HP = 10k heals which BoL easily suprasses

16k HP (the avg in PvE) = 5k heals

Would be a lot better than what we have now. Right now vigor ticks are stronger in pvp than dragon blood.

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Please make Dragon Blood a heal again -.-

Easy fix. Make Dragon Blood to heal for 33% from your health. I dont think it will be OP in PvE. Templars still can self heal better.

This would make the most sense.

30k HP = 10k heals which BoL easily suprasses

16k HP (the avg in PvE) = 5k heals

Would be a lot better than what we have now. Right now vigor ticks are stronger in pvp than dragon blood.

Vigor is better in both PvE and PvP for sure. Granted, BE is now an excellent heal, but we should have more than 1 viable heal if we're going to be the attrition class.

Why are we the attrition class? They removed our execute (molten armaments) and didn't buff our burst (flame lash). If they expect us to have a soft-hitting burst skill and no execute, we need to outlast our opponents. That means we need sustain and heals in various forms.

Kilandros wrote: »

Stalwart385 wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Please make Dragon Blood a heal again -.-

Easy fix. Make Dragon Blood to heal for 33% from your health. I dont think it will be OP in PvE. Templars still can self heal better.

This would make the most sense.

30k HP = 10k heals which BoL easily suprasses

16k HP (the avg in PvE) = 5k heals

Would be a lot better than what we have now. Right now vigor ticks are stronger in pvp than dragon blood.

Vigor is better in both PvE and PvP for sure. Granted, BE is now an excellent heal, but we should have more than 1 viable heal if we're going to be the attrition class.

Why are we the attrition class? They removed our execute (molten armaments) and didn't buff our burst (flame lash). If they expect us to have a soft-hitting burst skill and no execute, we need to outlast our opponents. That means we need sustain and heals in various forms.

I think the BE heal buff shouldn't have happened and it should have been a dragon blood buff. That said the BE heal is one of the wonkiest heals out there. Timing and positioning are required, a lot can go wrong. Then you consider the DK has a pure self heal sitting in their skill lines but is useless. It used to be a staple of DK's. Wings and dragon blood were what made DK's one of the toughest classes. Now magicka DK are far from a tanky class. They have no execute, no burst, no escape and no survivability. The best strategy is to hope you blow them up before they blow you up. Of course that seems to be the type of PvP ZOS strives for.

Ishammael wrote: »

I would trade every single one of the buffs in this patch for two changes:
1. Return Dragon Blood to previous healing capability
2. Add Major Evasion to Cinder Storm and make it cast at your feet (like it used to). Leave Eruption as is.

THIS!!!! No point in being a "tanky" class when you can't keep yourself alive as well as other "DPS" classes.

Minsc wrote: »

The issue with a stamina morph of Stone fist is that it will return partially its own cost via the Earthen heart passives so I don't think it's very likely they will do it

They could simply increase the cost of the skill to compensate for the refund...sort of null the value

DKsUnite wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I would trade every single one of the buffs in this patch for two changes:
1. Return Dragon Blood to previous healing capability
2. Add Major Evasion to Cinder Storm and make it cast at your feet (like it used to). Leave Eruption as is.

give up Ish. Neither of these things are happening. Wrobel believes low health pools are the reason dragon blood is underperforming. My 30k hp back bar tells a story of a *** heal however.

30k, I play with 45k and 100 CP in healing and it still sucks. My average heal is 8k. For @wrobel everything in this game is DPS. He proved it again with the burning embers change. If you want to heal you have to DPS. DKs have an under performing self heal and he refused to fix it.

DKsUnite wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I would trade every single one of the buffs in this patch for two changes:
1. Return Dragon Blood to previous healing capability
2. Add Major Evasion to Cinder Storm and make it cast at your feet (like it used to). Leave Eruption as is.

give up Ish. Neither of these things are happening. Wrobel believes low health pools are the reason dragon blood is underperforming. My 30k hp back bar tells a story of a *** heal however.

I know. When I play solo I run 30k hp on my heal bar, too. Even if they returned the HP values back to 1.5:1:1 Dragon Blood would still blow.

Now Prett makes fun of me for dying all of the time because I can't run away and I can't tank. Elusive Mist helps, but not enough.

DKsUnite wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

I would trade every single one of the buffs in this patch for two changes:
1. Return Dragon Blood to previous healing capability
2. Add Major Evasion to Cinder Storm and make it cast at your feet (like it used to). Leave Eruption as is.

give up Ish. Neither of these things are happening. Wrobel believes low health pools are the reason dragon blood is underperforming. My 30k hp back bar tells a story of a *** heal however.

I know. When I play solo I run 30k hp on my heal bar, too. Even if they returned the HP values back to 1.5:1:1 Dragon Blood would still blow.

Now Prett makes fun of me for dying all of the time because I can't run away and I can't tank. Elusive Mist helps, but not enough.

then all thats left is to uninstall and wait for CU

Oh don't worry. CU already installed. I'm just waiting for them to switch on the beta.

kalimar44 wrote: »

From what you all have been saying,and what I've been reading my stamina dk will be shelved. Zen you have no idea how to make a proper classes. This is getting ridiculous.

This update is a joke.

Your stam DK will be just fine. Don't be hyperbolic.

Magicka DK is fun in PVE. I have a Dunmer Fire Mage and he pulls very good DPS in fact higher then sorcs in long fights. All those stacking DOTS....

in PVP though is he difficult if not really impossible to play outside of a group setting. Even my Magic Templar is better.

The DK Obsidian Shield is useless its worse then the Templar's Sun Shield...Radiant Ward is a nice cheap tank shield that does damage and gets bigger every time i hit someone, Igneous Shield is good for a heal buff and maybe stamina return, but is expensive and won't really protect you much, even my Radiant Ward on my Templar can stave off 1 wrecking blow, Obsidian Shield isn't even capable of that.

Coagulating Blood is useful for an 8% heal boost, but its still not worth slotting due to the cost and the heal being Atrocious, better off with Blessing of Restoration or Combat Prayer.

Volatile Armor is useless because every class in PVP is running around with Major Breech and Major Fracture so you get no defense bonus at all to a class that has no mobility and no real viable healing at all.

DK Wings are only good against ranged attacks, and even though i am ok with unreflectable Meteors, its another nerf to DK's main defense.

In PVE the Magicka DK is a very very solid class, but in PVP i don't think is viable outside a group setting, you cna work in a group and spam Fire AOE and Talons to be sorta like a "controller" or an "immobilizer" for your group, but solo play for magicka DK in PVP is pretty much dead outside a ganking role with Molten Armaments and a fire staff as a Dunmer.

The magicka DK is the tale of two zones...in PVP they may be the worst spec, in PVE they are one of the top performing classes from a DPS persepctive.

regardless, i'll play my Magicka DK in PVP anyways simply because i think the class is fun and its new, im still figuring out the best combinations and anyways in terms of skills, but thats the fun part...i'll find something that semi works, but in PVP it will never be as good as my Sorc in its current state, however in PVE it will be a monster DPS.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Magicka DK is fun in PVE. I have a Dunmer Fire Mage and he pulls very good DPS in fact higher then sorcs in long fights. All those stacking DOTS....

in PVP though is he difficult if not really impossible to play outside of a group setting. Even my Magic Templar is better.

The DK Obsidian Shield is useless its worse then the Templar's Sun Shield...Radiant Ward is a nice cheap tank shield that does damage and gets bigger every time i hit someone, Igneous Shield is good for a heal buff and maybe stamina return, but is expensive and won't really protect you much, even my Radiant Ward on my Templar can stave off 1 wrecking blow, Obsidian Shield isn't even capable of that.

Coagulating Blood is useful for an 8% heal boost, but its still not worth slotting due to the cost and the heal being Atrocious, better off with Blessing of Restoration or Combat Prayer.

Volatile Armor is useless because every class in PVP is running around with Major Breech and Major Fracture so you get no defense bonus at all to a class that has no mobility and no real viable healing at all.

DK Wings are only good against ranged attacks, and even though i am ok with unreflectable Meteors, its another nerf to DK's main defense.

In PVE the Magicka DK is a very very solid class, but in PVP i don't think is viable outside a group setting, you cna work in a group and spam Fire AOE and Talons to be sorta like a "controller" or an "immobilizer" for your group, but solo play for magicka DK in PVP is pretty much dead outside a ganking role with Molten Armaments and a fire staff as a Dunmer.

The magicka DK is the tale of two zones...in PVP they may be the worst spec, in PVE they are one of the top performing classes from a DPS persepctive.

regardless, i'll play my Magicka DK in PVP anyways simply because i think the class is fun and its new, im still figuring out the best combinations and anyways in terms of skills, but thats the fun part...i'll find something that semi works, but in PVP it will never be as good as my Sorc in its current state, however in PVE it will be a monster DPS.

I agree with this except the caveat of "group" PvE. Magicka DK has the same problems in vMSA. If you don't blow things up fast enough you really don't have much defense to back you up. Being that it's a DOT class this is counter productive.

The decline of the DK tank should also be mentioned in the PvE conversation.

No in the current patch everyone runs around with 25% magicka reduction because of cp, you think it's balanced now?

You do realize stam builds have to share their ability cost with blocking, sprinting, and dodging... When it costs you magicka to do these things then we can talk balance.

---

The problems DKs have in PvP are the same as those facing Templars: The classes have neither the escapes nor the defenses needed. If you look across the classes, it's a paradox that Sorcerers and NBs have both the best defensive abilities and the best escapes....

So yeah, maybe ZOS would like to explain why two of the classes have the best offensive AND defensive abilities, while two of the classes have neither.

Also, please note that I'm talking about magicka here. WB spam is a whole other story and warrants a separate discussion in a separate topic.

Thank you Kilandros for a well thought out post, although it also applies to stam dks seeing as we don't have an escape or viable shield either. In fact our ability pool is shared with dodge/block/sprint. I agree the escape/defense/attack abilities for those two classes are too OP. Does Zeni need proof? Just look at the weekly MA boards that have over 50 Sorcs and NBs but less than 20 DKs - almost EVERY week. Even NB and Sorc players with DK alts admit they don't run MA with them because its not easy. And don't get me started on PVP, when the aforementioned coward classes jump you, realize they can't win so then they streak off or fade away.