Official Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

alec.littlejohn_ESO

FloppyTouch wrote: »

alec.littlejohn_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for the patch notes ZOS. I see a lot of changes ( buffs) for magicka and i was wondering what you have planned to make Stamina be able to compete with Magicka, I just want to focus on DK's though.

I see tons of changes to make the Magicka DK so much stronger with changes to abilities and changes to the CP system (elemental Expert) but I did not see changes to make the Stamina DK stronger which i think was even weaker than magicka DK to begin with.

Molten weapons would be way cool if the morph that gives weapon damage cost stamina instead of magicka. I think molten weapons and its morphs need to be looked at closer to give DK's the execute they need.

Also, in PvP you have to be able to burst your opponents down, that's something the stam DK lacks in its class abilities. Please, please, PLEASE reconsider giving whip a stam morph. Flame lash would be perfect for a stamina morph, keep everything the same just make it scale of weapon damage and stamina. Molten Whip already makes since for Magicka users anyways.

I would just love to see some better class balances to stamina. All my friends tell me ZOS favors Magicka over Stamina but i don't believe it. PLEASE PROVE THEM WRONG!

Stam DKs are very strong in pvp they need no buffs at all IMO magic is far less powerful in pvp sorry had to say something

we must not be ready the same patch notes/ you aren't playing a mag. DK right.... Unless you can have facts to back up what you said you are wrong

Sorry, had to say something.

FloppyTouch

alec.littlejohn_ESO wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

alec.littlejohn_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for the patch notes ZOS. I see a lot of changes ( buffs) for magicka and i was wondering what you have planned to make Stamina be able to compete with Magicka, I just want to focus on DK's though.

I see tons of changes to make the Magicka DK so much stronger with changes to abilities and changes to the CP system (elemental Expert) but I did not see changes to make the Stamina DK stronger which i think was even weaker than magicka DK to begin with.

Molten weapons would be way cool if the morph that gives weapon damage cost stamina instead of magicka. I think molten weapons and its morphs need to be looked at closer to give DK's the execute they need.

Also, in PvP you have to be able to burst your opponents down, that's something the stam DK lacks in its class abilities. Please, please, PLEASE reconsider giving whip a stam morph. Flame lash would be perfect for a stamina morph, keep everything the same just make it scale of weapon damage and stamina. Molten Whip already makes since for Magicka users anyways.

I would just love to see some better class balances to stamina. All my friends tell me ZOS favors Magicka over Stamina but i don't believe it. PLEASE PROVE THEM WRONG!

Stam DKs are very strong in pvp they need no buffs at all IMO magic is far less powerful in pvp sorry had to say something

we must not be ready the same patch notes/ you aren't playing a mag. DK right.... Unless you can have facts to back up what you said you are wrong

Sorry, had to say something.

Been playing magicka DK from beta up to now and I pvp with a friend that played stam DK only change I see that hurts stam builds is now magic has a way to cut ur op damage like most stam have a way already to cut magic damage to them. In a 1v1 ppl argue all the time that Stam DK are one of the best do u read forums? only thing I can see helping out stam builds would b a stam morph to whip just to give them more options.

Alcast

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

LorDrek

Nice magicka dk in vma immortal, stamina RIP.

Kilandros

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

Moglijuana

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I agree. I hate running a resto back bar but @Alcast does have a point though, maybe tone down the heal to something more fair. 60k healing tick off a dot seems kind of OP. I main a Magicka DK, and while I am happy we are getting buffed, I don't want to be OP. I want to win fairly so when I kill all these MLG PRO nightblades out in open world, they cant just scream FOTM. even though they will lol. As far as chains giving free damage, its low enough of damage that most people will be able to shrug it off, but I can see a lot of Kill Stealing coming from it lol.

Alcast

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I did not say remove the healing component, but adjust it. How it is now, it is completely out of bounce compared to other healing skills.

Bashev

Alcast wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I did not say remove teh healing component, but adjust it. How it is now it is completely out of bounce compared to other healing skills.

Probably if they adjust it they will ruin it for PvP. I still do not think that this skill should be our self heal skill as we have GDB but @Wrobel didnt make it viable. Why ZoS combine different effect into 1 skill to be so powerful? Damage + heal, damage + CC, CC + debuff and so on. It is true that we have only 10 skill slots + 2 ultimates but I still do not believe that this is how it should be done.

Kilandros

Alcast wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I did not say remove the healing component, but adjust it. How it is now, it is completely out of bounce compared to other healing skills.

But you're test is basically on a trash mob with little resistance. You aren't seeing heals like that in PvP. It just isn't happening. The game shouldn't be balanced around EZ-mode PvE--especially PvE trash mobs.

Kilandros

Moglijuana wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I agree. I hate running a resto back bar but @Alcast does have a point though, maybe tone down the heal to something more fair. 60k healing tick off a dot seems kind of OP. I main a Magicka DK, and while I am happy we are getting buffed, I don't want to be OP. I want to win fairly so when I kill all these MLG PRO nightblades out in open world, they cant just scream FOTM. even though they will lol. As far as chains giving free damage, its low enough of damage that most people will be able to shrug it off, but I can see a lot of Kill Stealing coming from it lol.

As I mention in reply to Alcast, you aren't healing for 60k in PvP. I take issue with his conclusion based off of testing on PvE trash mobs. Every skill seems OP when going against Wrothgar giants.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

The morph of chains (Empowering Chains?) that pulls you to a target fails to pull you if the target is blocking. Afaik every other charge ability works when used on a blocking target.

Alcast

Kilandros wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I agree. I hate running a resto back bar but @Alcast does have a point though, maybe tone down the heal to something more fair. 60k healing tick off a dot seems kind of OP. I main a Magicka DK, and while I am happy we are getting buffed, I don't want to be OP. I want to win fairly so when I kill all these MLG PRO nightblades out in open world, they cant just scream FOTM. even though they will lol. As far as chains giving free damage, its low enough of damage that most people will be able to shrug it off, but I can see a lot of Kill Stealing coming from it lol.

As I mention in reply to Alcast, you aren't healing for 60k in PvP. I take issue with his conclusion based off of testing on PvE trash mobs. Every skill seems OP when going against Wrothgar giants.

yes that is true, but even in pvp, if you spam it, you still get 2-3k heals and the skill costs like nothing. Tho I think the initial heal should not proc healing? Otherwise should be no problemo I guess.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Alcast wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I agree. I hate running a resto back bar but @Alcast does have a point though, maybe tone down the heal to something more fair. 60k healing tick off a dot seems kind of OP. I main a Magicka DK, and while I am happy we are getting buffed, I don't want to be OP. I want to win fairly so when I kill all these MLG PRO nightblades out in open world, they cant just scream FOTM. even though they will lol. As far as chains giving free damage, its low enough of damage that most people will be able to shrug it off, but I can see a lot of Kill Stealing coming from it lol.

As I mention in reply to Alcast, you aren't healing for 60k in PvP. I take issue with his conclusion based off of testing on PvE trash mobs. Every skill seems OP when going against Wrothgar giants.

yes that is true, but even in pvp, if you spam it, you still get 2-3k heals and the skill costs like nothing. Tho I think the initial heal should not proc healing? Otherwise should be no problemo I guess.

I believe it proccs the healing because it cancels the previous application. Didn't manage to test myself, so I might be wrong.

Joy_Division

Not that ZoS will change things, but:

What I like:

• Burning Embers. @Alcast is right though, heal is too strong.
• Inhale. TY.
• Shifting Standard cost reduction. Might is still too expensive though.
• Burning talons switch to flame damage.
• Magma shell auto shielding. Not sure why you decided for no synergy, but it's more efficient so I'll take it.
• Mountain's blessing - minor brutality bonus. Free damage is nice.
• Stonefist stuff - Still not convinced it's great, but it's at least solid.

What is mixed/still needs tweaking

• DK standard synergy activation. Synergy activation really needs to be eligible in the entire standard. An ally MUST hit it for the 250 ultimate to be worth it.
• Chains. Appreciate the distinction between pull me / target morphs. The "gap closer" version is weak though compared to other gap closers in the game.
• Cauterize morph. Interesting Idea, though I still think the baseline ability Inferno is uninspiring (see below).
• Molten Weapons. Appreciate the inclusion of resto/lightnig staffs. I like the return to the original idea behind this spell pre 1.6. But: 1) I think it is bad design for these buff skills to only grant major sorcery or brutality and then grant the other through a morph. All this succeeds in doing is limiting build variety because we are forced to take that morph and neglect the other just to get the buff we need. 2) The buff given to allies really ought to be something they already wont have. I mean, even the Pugiest of Pug magic build will have access to major sorcery.

What I don't like.

• Inferno. Toggles that I just slot to get more damage is boring and bad design. Also I'd rather have the DoT. The original ability that ZoS erroneously assumed nobody used was interesting, opened up unique options for DKs, and had a much more appealing aesthetic/art.
• DK standard is still too expensive,
• Class shield based of health still doesn't work for PvP
• Cinderstorm needs to have its original defensive benefits because nothing in these patch notes helps a magicka DK actually "tank" in the traditional sense. They are just healing themselves better spamming burning embers.

Overall, I will say these changes will inspire to to bring my DK out of retirement so this is a decent job. But the game is still burst damage / mobility oriented which does not fit with the design of this class.

Alcast

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I agree. I hate running a resto back bar but @Alcast does have a point though, maybe tone down the heal to something more fair. 60k healing tick off a dot seems kind of OP. I main a Magicka DK, and while I am happy we are getting buffed, I don't want to be OP. I want to win fairly so when I kill all these MLG PRO nightblades out in open world, they cant just scream FOTM. even though they will lol. As far as chains giving free damage, its low enough of damage that most people will be able to shrug it off, but I can see a lot of Kill Stealing coming from it lol.

As I mention in reply to Alcast, you aren't healing for 60k in PvP. I take issue with his conclusion based off of testing on PvE trash mobs. Every skill seems OP when going against Wrothgar giants.

yes that is true, but even in pvp, if you spam it, you still get 2-3k heals and the skill costs like nothing. Tho I think the initial heal should not proc healing? Otherwise should be no problemo I guess.

I believe it proccs the healing because it cancels the previous application. Didn't manage to test myself, so I might be wrong.

highly possible

Kilandros

Alcast wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I agree. I hate running a resto back bar but @Alcast does have a point though, maybe tone down the heal to something more fair. 60k healing tick off a dot seems kind of OP. I main a Magicka DK, and while I am happy we are getting buffed, I don't want to be OP. I want to win fairly so when I kill all these MLG PRO nightblades out in open world, they cant just scream FOTM. even though they will lol. As far as chains giving free damage, its low enough of damage that most people will be able to shrug it off, but I can see a lot of Kill Stealing coming from it lol.

As I mention in reply to Alcast, you aren't healing for 60k in PvP. I take issue with his conclusion based off of testing on PvE trash mobs. Every skill seems OP when going against Wrothgar giants.

yes that is true, but even in pvp, if you spam it, you still get 2-3k heals and the skill costs like nothing. Tho I think the initial heal should not proc healing? Otherwise should be no problemo I guess.

So from my experience pvping on the pts I didn't find those 2-3k heals to be too powerful. And in duels, I still found healing ward to be significantly better as an emergency heal. BE was nice for sustain to be sure, but if you're spamming it for 2-3k heals off the initial hit you really aren't going to be doing enough damage to your opponent. I found it worked best when I applied it and let it tick and just recast either when it expired or when I needed a heal. But when I got really low, I still preferred healing ward.

The fact is, you arent going to win any fights with just your dots in pvp. And now that our execute is gone, our whole rotation is about timing your ultimate and burst skills to go off at the same time. I found BE played a very small role in that rotation other than giving some health sustain.

Kilandros

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not that ZoS will change things, but:

What I like:

• Burning Embers. @Alcast is right though, heal is too strong.
• Inhale. TY.
• Shifting Standard cost reduction. Might is still too expensive though.
• Burning talons switch to flame damage.
• Magma shell auto shielding. Not sure why you decided for no synergy, but it's more efficient so I'll take it.
• Mountain's blessing - minor brutality bonus. Free damage is nice.
• Stonefist stuff - Still not convinced it's great, but it's at least solid.

What is mixed/still needs tweaking

• DK standard synergy activation. Synergy activation really needs to be eligible in the entire standard. An ally MUST hit it for the 250 ultimate to be worth it.
• Chains. Appreciate the distinction between pull me / target morphs. The "gap closer" version is weak though compared to other gap closers in the game.
• Cauterize morph. Interesting Idea, though I still think the baseline ability Inferno is uninspiring (see below).
• Molten Weapons. Appreciate the inclusion of resto/lightnig staffs. I like the return to the original idea behind this spell pre 1.6. But: 1) I think it is bad design for these buff skills to only grant major sorcery or brutality and then grant the other through a morph. All this succeeds in doing is limiting build variety because we are forced to take that morph and neglect the other just to get the buff we need. 2) The buff given to allies really ought to be something they already wont have. I mean, even the Pugiest of Pug magic build will have access to major sorcery.

What I don't like.

• Inferno. Toggles that I just slot to get more damage is boring and bad design. Also I'd rather have the DoT. The original ability that ZoS erroneously assumed nobody used was interesting, opened up unique options for DKs, and had a much more appealing aesthetic/art.
• DK standard is still too expensive,
• Class shield based of health still doesn't work for PvP
• Cinderstorm needs to have its original defensive benefits because nothing in these patch notes helps a magicka DK actually "tank" in the traditional sense. They are just healing themselves better spamming burning embers.

Overall, I will say these changes will inspire to to bring my DK out of retirement so this is a decent job. But the game is still burst damage / mobility oriented which does not fit with the design of this class.

Agree with everything except the statement that the heal on BE is too strong. Maybe we'll find it is too strong once we're on live and not the duel fest that is PTS, but they can always tone it done as part of an incremental patch later.

Moglijuana

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Moglijuana wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Chains:
The change to Chains that now cost 0 Magicka if you fail to pull still deal damage. So you could spam this in PvP and it costs 0 Magicka and you still do damage to your enemies. People should NOT be awarded for beeing too dumb to see that an enemy is CCed or not pullable. Here watch the video.
https://youtu.be/vMlNepPHYNY

Burning Embers:
The heal is way too strong, and it also seems the initial hit procs the healing, which it clearly shouldnt according to the Tooltip. The DoT costs almost nothing and even in pvp the heal is ridiculouos strong.
Here some tests I have made with it.
48k heal from 1 DoT seems a bit...too much. (And yes, I could get a lot bigger heal, prolly 60k)
https://youtu.be/5Kh6NZ2XzEU

This is our only heal though. Sorry, but I'm sick of being force into running Resto as a magicka DK

I agree. I hate running a resto back bar but @Alcast does have a point though, maybe tone down the heal to something more fair. 60k healing tick off a dot seems kind of OP. I main a Magicka DK, and while I am happy we are getting buffed, I don't want to be OP. I want to win fairly so when I kill all these MLG PRO nightblades out in open world, they cant just scream FOTM. even though they will lol. As far as chains giving free damage, its low enough of damage that most people will be able to shrug it off, but I can see a lot of Kill Stealing coming from it lol.

As I mention in reply to Alcast, you aren't healing for 60k in PvP. I take issue with his conclusion based off of testing on PvE trash mobs. Every skill seems OP when going against Wrothgar giants.

yes that is true, but even in pvp, if you spam it, you still get 2-3k heals and the skill costs like nothing. Tho I think the initial heal should not proc healing? Otherwise should be no problemo I guess.

So from my experience pvping on the pts I didn't find those 2-3k heals to be too powerful. And in duels, I still found healing ward to be significantly better as an emergency heal. BE was nice for sustain to be sure, but if you're spamming it for 2-3k heals off the initial hit you really aren't going to be doing enough damage to your opponent. I found it worked best when I applied it and let it tick and just recast either when it expired or when I needed a heal. But when I got really low, I still preferred healing ward.

The fact is, you arent going to win any fights with just your dots in pvp. And now that our execute is gone, our whole rotation is about timing your ultimate and burst skills to go off at the same time. I found BE played a very small role in that rotation other than giving some health sustain.

If it's only healing for 2-3k in PvP then that should be fine. I can work with that.

Ishammael

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not that ZoS will change things, but:

What I like:

• Burning Embers. @Alcast is right though, heal is too strong.
• Inhale. TY.
• Shifting Standard cost reduction. Might is still too expensive though.
• Burning talons switch to flame damage.
• Magma shell auto shielding. Not sure why you decided for no synergy, but it's more efficient so I'll take it.
• Mountain's blessing - minor brutality bonus. Free damage is nice.
• Stonefist stuff - Still not convinced it's great, but it's at least solid.

In order:
1. Its not too strong. For duels, maybe. But there are a ton of skills that are broken/cheesy in duels. For open world it is fine b/c of the (im)practical use of the skill.
2. Agreed, thank you.
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed, this is excellent. Beware: Talon spam incoming. Oh god talon spam incoming.
5. The other morph should still bypass spell resist in addition to physical resist.
6. Agreed.
7. Stonefist needs to be melee range AoE like impulse. One morph stamina.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What is mixed/still needs tweaking

• DK standard synergy activation. Synergy activation really needs to be eligible in the entire standard. An ally MUST hit it for the 250 ultimate to be worth it.
• Chains. Appreciate the distinction between pull me / target morphs. The "gap closer" version is weak though compared to other gap closers in the game.
• Cauterize morph. Interesting Idea, though I still think the baseline ability Inferno is uninspiring (see below).
• Molten Weapons. Appreciate the inclusion of resto/lightnig staffs. I like the return to the original idea behind this spell pre 1.6. But: 1) I think it is bad design for these buff skills to only grant major sorcery or brutality and then grant the other through a morph. All this succeeds in doing is limiting build variety because we are forced to take that morph and neglect the other just to get the buff we need. 2) The buff given to allies really ought to be something they already wont have. I mean, even the Pugiest of Pug magic build will have access to major sorcery.

In order:
1. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
2. TY for the chains change. However, because of the clunkiness of using it and the fact that it does not apply a CC I will still not find a place for it on my bar. Invasion, Crit Rush, Toppling Charge, streak, Ambush are its competitors that are MUCH stronger. Petrify will remain on my bar.
3. Inferno still sucks, and so does this morph.
4. I think this change is good -- I'm just not sure how I'm going to fit it on to my bars. They are full already.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I don't like.

• Inferno. Toggles that I just slot to get more damage is boring and bad design. Also I'd rather have the DoT. The original ability that ZoS erroneously assumed nobody used was interesting, opened up unique options for DKs, and had a much more appealing aesthetic/art.
• DK standard is still too expensive,
• Class shield based of health still doesn't work for PvP
• Cinderstorm needs to have its original defensive benefits because nothing in these patch notes helps a magicka DK actually "tank" in the traditional sense. They are just healing themselves better spamming burning embers.

Overall, I will say these changes will inspire to to bring my DK out of retirement so this is a decent job. But the game is still burst damage / mobility oriented which does not fit with the design of this class.

In order:
1. Agreed, inferno still stinks. Return to its 1.5 functionality.
2. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
3. Igneous needs to give me its original 30% of hp shield -- not cut by half because of battle spirit. But this is a mechanics problems (shields).
4. Cinder storm needs 20% miss chance like it used to have. The damage on Eruption is still bad (for pvp).

Bottom Line: I would trade every single one of the buffs from this patch for original 20% miss chance/ground-targeted cinder storm plus un-nerfed Dragon Blood.

Sharkano

The heal is not "too strong." What b.s. After a lot of PTS testing I found that burning embers is not even that useful in pvp, as to hit the same guy over and over and over to get the heals he/she needs to be standing right by you. Sure, it will work great on someone lagging out, or afk (when you don't even need it, fyi) but that's it. This skill will only really matter much to magicka tanks who DO get a mob or boss to stand there in front of them forever. Even then the heals, though nice, are not overwhelming. They have hosed dk's a thousand ways in this game since launch, and now that they give one piddling benefit people are whining. Wow.

Joy_Division

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not that ZoS will change things, but:

What I like:

• Burning Embers. @Alcast is right though, heal is too strong.
• Inhale. TY.
• Shifting Standard cost reduction. Might is still too expensive though.
• Burning talons switch to flame damage.
• Magma shell auto shielding. Not sure why you decided for no synergy, but it's more efficient so I'll take it.
• Mountain's blessing - minor brutality bonus. Free damage is nice.
• Stonefist stuff - Still not convinced it's great, but it's at least solid.

In order:
1. Its not too strong. For duels, maybe. But there are a ton of skills that are broken/cheesy in duels. For open world it is fine b/c of the (im)practical use of the skill.
2. Agreed, thank you.
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed, this is excellent. Beware: Talon spam incoming. Oh god talon spam incoming.
5. The other morph should still bypass spell resist in addition to physical resist.
6. Agreed.
7. Stonefist needs to be melee range AoE like impulse. One morph stamina.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What is mixed/still needs tweaking

• DK standard synergy activation. Synergy activation really needs to be eligible in the entire standard. An ally MUST hit it for the 250 ultimate to be worth it.
• Chains. Appreciate the distinction between pull me / target morphs. The "gap closer" version is weak though compared to other gap closers in the game.
• Cauterize morph. Interesting Idea, though I still think the baseline ability Inferno is uninspiring (see below).
• Molten Weapons. Appreciate the inclusion of resto/lightnig staffs. I like the return to the original idea behind this spell pre 1.6. But: 1) I think it is bad design for these buff skills to only grant major sorcery or brutality and then grant the other through a morph. All this succeeds in doing is limiting build variety because we are forced to take that morph and neglect the other just to get the buff we need. 2) The buff given to allies really ought to be something they already wont have. I mean, even the Pugiest of Pug magic build will have access to major sorcery.

In order:
1. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
2. TY for the chains change. However, because of the clunkiness of using it and the fact that it does not apply a CC I will still not find a place for it on my bar. Invasion, Crit Rush, Toppling Charge, streak, Ambush are its competitors that are MUCH stronger. Petrify will remain on my bar.
3. Inferno still sucks, and so does this morph.
4. I think this change is good -- I'm just not sure how I'm going to fit it on to my bars. They are full already.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I don't like.

• Inferno. Toggles that I just slot to get more damage is boring and bad design. Also I'd rather have the DoT. The original ability that ZoS erroneously assumed nobody used was interesting, opened up unique options for DKs, and had a much more appealing aesthetic/art.
• DK standard is still too expensive,
• Class shield based of health still doesn't work for PvP
• Cinderstorm needs to have its original defensive benefits because nothing in these patch notes helps a magicka DK actually "tank" in the traditional sense. They are just healing themselves better spamming burning embers.

Overall, I will say these changes will inspire to to bring my DK out of retirement so this is a decent job. But the game is still burst damage / mobility oriented which does not fit with the design of this class.

In order:
1. Agreed, inferno still stinks. Return to its 1.5 functionality.
2. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
3. Igneous needs to give me its original 30% of hp shield -- not cut by half because of battle spirit. But this is a mechanics problems (shields).
4. Cinder storm needs 20% miss chance like it used to have. The damage on Eruption is still bad (for pvp).

Bottom Line: I would trade every single one of the buffs from this patch for original 20% miss chance/ground-targeted cinder storm plus un-nerfed Dragon Blood.

Before I'd sign off on this, I would like to point out the skill originally gave DKs a 30% miss chance

You could be right about Embers. We have only really been dueling and some skills naturally work better there than in others.

leepalmer95

Embers does seem strong in duels but realistically in open world how many options are you going to get to re hit the same character?

Heard chains is buggy, the too high/low bug, for the always pull too morph make it work like every other gap closer, there shouldn't be any more restrictions than the universal one.

Inferno is useless, magelight is better by far. Cauterise seems useless.

Ash cloud needs something done to it, dodge chance yes please, nb's have a self one thats active for 24s? Whats so wrong about there being one where dk's need to stand in 1 place. In fact buff the range on ash cloud.

Fix dragon blood, make the regen buff's not stack with pot buff's. Make them minor if need be.

Most skills are very expensive for some reason, not sure why that it, especially when there isn't any built in reliable sustain.

Ishammael

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not that ZoS will change things, but:

What I like:

• Burning Embers. @Alcast is right though, heal is too strong.
• Inhale. TY.
• Shifting Standard cost reduction. Might is still too expensive though.
• Burning talons switch to flame damage.
• Magma shell auto shielding. Not sure why you decided for no synergy, but it's more efficient so I'll take it.
• Mountain's blessing - minor brutality bonus. Free damage is nice.
• Stonefist stuff - Still not convinced it's great, but it's at least solid.

In order:
1. Its not too strong. For duels, maybe. But there are a ton of skills that are broken/cheesy in duels. For open world it is fine b/c of the (im)practical use of the skill.
2. Agreed, thank you.
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed, this is excellent. Beware: Talon spam incoming. Oh god talon spam incoming.
5. The other morph should still bypass spell resist in addition to physical resist.
6. Agreed.
7. Stonefist needs to be melee range AoE like impulse. One morph stamina.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What is mixed/still needs tweaking

• DK standard synergy activation. Synergy activation really needs to be eligible in the entire standard. An ally MUST hit it for the 250 ultimate to be worth it.
• Chains. Appreciate the distinction between pull me / target morphs. The "gap closer" version is weak though compared to other gap closers in the game.
• Cauterize morph. Interesting Idea, though I still think the baseline ability Inferno is uninspiring (see below).
• Molten Weapons. Appreciate the inclusion of resto/lightnig staffs. I like the return to the original idea behind this spell pre 1.6. But: 1) I think it is bad design for these buff skills to only grant major sorcery or brutality and then grant the other through a morph. All this succeeds in doing is limiting build variety because we are forced to take that morph and neglect the other just to get the buff we need. 2) The buff given to allies really ought to be something they already wont have. I mean, even the Pugiest of Pug magic build will have access to major sorcery.

In order:
1. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
2. TY for the chains change. However, because of the clunkiness of using it and the fact that it does not apply a CC I will still not find a place for it on my bar. Invasion, Crit Rush, Toppling Charge, streak, Ambush are its competitors that are MUCH stronger. Petrify will remain on my bar.
3. Inferno still sucks, and so does this morph.
4. I think this change is good -- I'm just not sure how I'm going to fit it on to my bars. They are full already.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I don't like.

• Inferno. Toggles that I just slot to get more damage is boring and bad design. Also I'd rather have the DoT. The original ability that ZoS erroneously assumed nobody used was interesting, opened up unique options for DKs, and had a much more appealing aesthetic/art.
• DK standard is still too expensive,
• Class shield based of health still doesn't work for PvP
• Cinderstorm needs to have its original defensive benefits because nothing in these patch notes helps a magicka DK actually "tank" in the traditional sense. They are just healing themselves better spamming burning embers.

Overall, I will say these changes will inspire to to bring my DK out of retirement so this is a decent job. But the game is still burst damage / mobility oriented which does not fit with the design of this class.

In order:
1. Agreed, inferno still stinks. Return to its 1.5 functionality.
2. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
3. Igneous needs to give me its original 30% of hp shield -- not cut by half because of battle spirit. But this is a mechanics problems (shields).
4. Cinder storm needs 20% miss chance like it used to have. The damage on Eruption is still bad (for pvp).

Bottom Line: I would trade every single one of the buffs from this patch for original 20% miss chance/ground-targeted cinder storm plus un-nerfed Dragon Blood.

Before I'd sign off on this, I would like to point out the skill originally gave DKs a 30% miss chance

You could be right about Embers. We have only really been dueling and some skills naturally work better there than in others.

You are right, ofc, about 30%. I had forgotten. Regardless, I'll settle for 20%. (I have been working to get Shuffle into my Magicka DK build -- the Major Evasion buff is incredibly strong.)

RE: Embers. I just don't see this skill being used much in PvP (excepting duels).
Our bars are already full:
Petrify (or chains) / Inhale / Whip / Talons / Wings
Flex 1 / Prox / Armor / Igneous / Dragon Blood

The Flex 1 spot is almost always your Major Sorcery buff (Entropy) or Major Expedition (Mist form) or Purge. I suspect some people will try to replace Dragon Blood with Embers, but I'm not sure if that will work.

Glory

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not that ZoS will change things, but:

What I like:

• Burning Embers. @Alcast is right though, heal is too strong.
• Inhale. TY.
• Shifting Standard cost reduction. Might is still too expensive though.
• Burning talons switch to flame damage.
• Magma shell auto shielding. Not sure why you decided for no synergy, but it's more efficient so I'll take it.
• Mountain's blessing - minor brutality bonus. Free damage is nice.
• Stonefist stuff - Still not convinced it's great, but it's at least solid.

In order:
1. Its not too strong. For duels, maybe. But there are a ton of skills that are broken/cheesy in duels. For open world it is fine b/c of the (im)practical use of the skill.
2. Agreed, thank you.
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed, this is excellent. Beware: Talon spam incoming. Oh god talon spam incoming.
5. The other morph should still bypass spell resist in addition to physical resist.
6. Agreed.
7. Stonefist needs to be melee range AoE like impulse. One morph stamina.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What is mixed/still needs tweaking

• DK standard synergy activation. Synergy activation really needs to be eligible in the entire standard. An ally MUST hit it for the 250 ultimate to be worth it.
• Chains. Appreciate the distinction between pull me / target morphs. The "gap closer" version is weak though compared to other gap closers in the game.
• Cauterize morph. Interesting Idea, though I still think the baseline ability Inferno is uninspiring (see below).
• Molten Weapons. Appreciate the inclusion of resto/lightnig staffs. I like the return to the original idea behind this spell pre 1.6. But: 1) I think it is bad design for these buff skills to only grant major sorcery or brutality and then grant the other through a morph. All this succeeds in doing is limiting build variety because we are forced to take that morph and neglect the other just to get the buff we need. 2) The buff given to allies really ought to be something they already wont have. I mean, even the Pugiest of Pug magic build will have access to major sorcery.

In order:
1. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
2. TY for the chains change. However, because of the clunkiness of using it and the fact that it does not apply a CC I will still not find a place for it on my bar. Invasion, Crit Rush, Toppling Charge, streak, Ambush are its competitors that are MUCH stronger. Petrify will remain on my bar.
3. Inferno still sucks, and so does this morph.
4. I think this change is good -- I'm just not sure how I'm going to fit it on to my bars. They are full already.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I don't like.

• Inferno. Toggles that I just slot to get more damage is boring and bad design. Also I'd rather have the DoT. The original ability that ZoS erroneously assumed nobody used was interesting, opened up unique options for DKs, and had a much more appealing aesthetic/art.
• DK standard is still too expensive,
• Class shield based of health still doesn't work for PvP
• Cinderstorm needs to have its original defensive benefits because nothing in these patch notes helps a magicka DK actually "tank" in the traditional sense. They are just healing themselves better spamming burning embers.

Overall, I will say these changes will inspire to to bring my DK out of retirement so this is a decent job. But the game is still burst damage / mobility oriented which does not fit with the design of this class.

In order:
1. Agreed, inferno still stinks. Return to its 1.5 functionality.
2. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
3. Igneous needs to give me its original 30% of hp shield -- not cut by half because of battle spirit. But this is a mechanics problems (shields).
4. Cinder storm needs 20% miss chance like it used to have. The damage on Eruption is still bad (for pvp).

Bottom Line: I would trade every single one of the buffs from this patch for original 20% miss chance/ground-targeted cinder storm plus un-nerfed Dragon Blood.

Before I'd sign off on this, I would like to point out the skill originally gave DKs a 30% miss chance

You could be right about Embers. We have only really been dueling and some skills naturally work better there than in others.

You are right, ofc, about 30%. I had forgotten. Regardless, I'll settle for 20%. (I have been working to get Shuffle into my Magicka DK build -- the Major Evasion buff is incredibly strong.)

RE: Embers. I just don't see this skill being used much in PvP (excepting duels).
Our bars are already full:
Petrify (or chains) / Inhale / Whip / Talons / Wings
Flex 1 / Prox / Armor / Igneous / Dragon Blood

The Flex 1 spot is almost always your Major Sorcery buff (Entropy) or Major Expedition (Mist form) or Purge. I suspect some people will try to replace Dragon Blood with Embers, but I'm not sure if that will work.

I'm struggling with a flex slot as well. I have two questions since I've only been able to test in duels and perhaps you've tested otherwise:

1. You mentioned that Inhale may be more useful than embers in open world. Have you tested the healing/damage? I worry that it will still be lackluster, but I could perhaps be wrong!
2. I haven't run an armor buff in a long time. I was pretty sure the armor numbers were fairly negligible compared to all the penetration in game. You actually find it worthwhile over another skill such as shuffle?

Ghost-Shot

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we please get some comments about making adjustments to Dragons Blood? I really feel like this heal should not be effected by the battle spirit debuff, as it is right now I'm seeing ~3k heals at ~10% health and that's buffed with igneous shield. Just given the fact that you have to be in execute range anyway for it to be effective applying battle spirit to it doesn't make much sense.

Ishammael

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not that ZoS will change things, but:

What I like:

• Burning Embers. @Alcast is right though, heal is too strong.
• Inhale. TY.
• Shifting Standard cost reduction. Might is still too expensive though.
• Burning talons switch to flame damage.
• Magma shell auto shielding. Not sure why you decided for no synergy, but it's more efficient so I'll take it.
• Mountain's blessing - minor brutality bonus. Free damage is nice.
• Stonefist stuff - Still not convinced it's great, but it's at least solid.

In order:
1. Its not too strong. For duels, maybe. But there are a ton of skills that are broken/cheesy in duels. For open world it is fine b/c of the (im)practical use of the skill.
2. Agreed, thank you.
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed, this is excellent. Beware: Talon spam incoming. Oh god talon spam incoming.
5. The other morph should still bypass spell resist in addition to physical resist.
6. Agreed.
7. Stonefist needs to be melee range AoE like impulse. One morph stamina.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What is mixed/still needs tweaking

• DK standard synergy activation. Synergy activation really needs to be eligible in the entire standard. An ally MUST hit it for the 250 ultimate to be worth it.
• Chains. Appreciate the distinction between pull me / target morphs. The "gap closer" version is weak though compared to other gap closers in the game.
• Cauterize morph. Interesting Idea, though I still think the baseline ability Inferno is uninspiring (see below).
• Molten Weapons. Appreciate the inclusion of resto/lightnig staffs. I like the return to the original idea behind this spell pre 1.6. But: 1) I think it is bad design for these buff skills to only grant major sorcery or brutality and then grant the other through a morph. All this succeeds in doing is limiting build variety because we are forced to take that morph and neglect the other just to get the buff we need. 2) The buff given to allies really ought to be something they already wont have. I mean, even the Pugiest of Pug magic build will have access to major sorcery.

In order:
1. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
2. TY for the chains change. However, because of the clunkiness of using it and the fact that it does not apply a CC I will still not find a place for it on my bar. Invasion, Crit Rush, Toppling Charge, streak, Ambush are its competitors that are MUCH stronger. Petrify will remain on my bar.
3. Inferno still sucks, and so does this morph.
4. I think this change is good -- I'm just not sure how I'm going to fit it on to my bars. They are full already.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I don't like.

• Inferno. Toggles that I just slot to get more damage is boring and bad design. Also I'd rather have the DoT. The original ability that ZoS erroneously assumed nobody used was interesting, opened up unique options for DKs, and had a much more appealing aesthetic/art.
• DK standard is still too expensive,
• Class shield based of health still doesn't work for PvP
• Cinderstorm needs to have its original defensive benefits because nothing in these patch notes helps a magicka DK actually "tank" in the traditional sense. They are just healing themselves better spamming burning embers.

Overall, I will say these changes will inspire to to bring my DK out of retirement so this is a decent job. But the game is still burst damage / mobility oriented which does not fit with the design of this class.

In order:
1. Agreed, inferno still stinks. Return to its 1.5 functionality.
2. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
3. Igneous needs to give me its original 30% of hp shield -- not cut by half because of battle spirit. But this is a mechanics problems (shields).
4. Cinder storm needs 20% miss chance like it used to have. The damage on Eruption is still bad (for pvp).

Bottom Line: I would trade every single one of the buffs from this patch for original 20% miss chance/ground-targeted cinder storm plus un-nerfed Dragon Blood.

Before I'd sign off on this, I would like to point out the skill originally gave DKs a 30% miss chance

You could be right about Embers. We have only really been dueling and some skills naturally work better there than in others.

You are right, ofc, about 30%. I had forgotten. Regardless, I'll settle for 20%. (I have been working to get Shuffle into my Magicka DK build -- the Major Evasion buff is incredibly strong.)

RE: Embers. I just don't see this skill being used much in PvP (excepting duels).
Our bars are already full:
Petrify (or chains) / Inhale / Whip / Talons / Wings
Flex 1 / Prox / Armor / Igneous / Dragon Blood

The Flex 1 spot is almost always your Major Sorcery buff (Entropy) or Major Expedition (Mist form) or Purge. I suspect some people will try to replace Dragon Blood with Embers, but I'm not sure if that will work.

I'm struggling with a flex slot as well. I have two questions since I've only been able to test in duels and perhaps you've tested otherwise:

1. You mentioned that Inhale may be more useful than embers in open world. Have you tested the healing/damage? I worry that it will still be lackluster, but I could perhaps be wrong!
2. I haven't run an armor buff in a long time. I was pretty sure the armor numbers were fairly negligible compared to all the penetration in game. You actually find it worthwhile over another skill such as shuffle?

1. Inhale is solid. The 2.5s delay helps with burst. The heal is strong, even with three targets. With six targets its very good.
2. Volatile armor is more for the +12% healing received passive and passive damage than for the actual armor it gives. (i.e. Volatile + Igneous = +37% healing)

Joy_Division

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not that ZoS will change things, but:

What I like:

• Burning Embers. @Alcast is right though, heal is too strong.
• Inhale. TY.
• Shifting Standard cost reduction. Might is still too expensive though.
• Burning talons switch to flame damage.
• Magma shell auto shielding. Not sure why you decided for no synergy, but it's more efficient so I'll take it.
• Mountain's blessing - minor brutality bonus. Free damage is nice.
• Stonefist stuff - Still not convinced it's great, but it's at least solid.

In order:
1. Its not too strong. For duels, maybe. But there are a ton of skills that are broken/cheesy in duels. For open world it is fine b/c of the (im)practical use of the skill.
2. Agreed, thank you.
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed, this is excellent. Beware: Talon spam incoming. Oh god talon spam incoming.
5. The other morph should still bypass spell resist in addition to physical resist.
6. Agreed.
7. Stonefist needs to be melee range AoE like impulse. One morph stamina.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What is mixed/still needs tweaking

• DK standard synergy activation. Synergy activation really needs to be eligible in the entire standard. An ally MUST hit it for the 250 ultimate to be worth it.
• Chains. Appreciate the distinction between pull me / target morphs. The "gap closer" version is weak though compared to other gap closers in the game.
• Cauterize morph. Interesting Idea, though I still think the baseline ability Inferno is uninspiring (see below).
• Molten Weapons. Appreciate the inclusion of resto/lightnig staffs. I like the return to the original idea behind this spell pre 1.6. But: 1) I think it is bad design for these buff skills to only grant major sorcery or brutality and then grant the other through a morph. All this succeeds in doing is limiting build variety because we are forced to take that morph and neglect the other just to get the buff we need. 2) The buff given to allies really ought to be something they already wont have. I mean, even the Pugiest of Pug magic build will have access to major sorcery.

In order:
1. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
2. TY for the chains change. However, because of the clunkiness of using it and the fact that it does not apply a CC I will still not find a place for it on my bar. Invasion, Crit Rush, Toppling Charge, streak, Ambush are its competitors that are MUCH stronger. Petrify will remain on my bar.
3. Inferno still sucks, and so does this morph.
4. I think this change is good -- I'm just not sure how I'm going to fit it on to my bars. They are full already.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I don't like.

• Inferno. Toggles that I just slot to get more damage is boring and bad design. Also I'd rather have the DoT. The original ability that ZoS erroneously assumed nobody used was interesting, opened up unique options for DKs, and had a much more appealing aesthetic/art.
• DK standard is still too expensive,
• Class shield based of health still doesn't work for PvP
• Cinderstorm needs to have its original defensive benefits because nothing in these patch notes helps a magicka DK actually "tank" in the traditional sense. They are just healing themselves better spamming burning embers.

Overall, I will say these changes will inspire to to bring my DK out of retirement so this is a decent job. But the game is still burst damage / mobility oriented which does not fit with the design of this class.

In order:
1. Agreed, inferno still stinks. Return to its 1.5 functionality.
2. SoM needs to be 200 ultimate -- and so does Nova, for that matter.
3. Igneous needs to give me its original 30% of hp shield -- not cut by half because of battle spirit. But this is a mechanics problems (shields).
4. Cinder storm needs 20% miss chance like it used to have. The damage on Eruption is still bad (for pvp).

Bottom Line: I would trade every single one of the buffs from this patch for original 20% miss chance/ground-targeted cinder storm plus un-nerfed Dragon Blood.

Before I'd sign off on this, I would like to point out the skill originally gave DKs a 30% miss chance

You could be right about Embers. We have only really been dueling and some skills naturally work better there than in others.

You are right, ofc, about 30%. I had forgotten. Regardless, I'll settle for 20%. (I have been working to get Shuffle into my Magicka DK build -- the Major Evasion buff is incredibly strong.)

RE: Embers. I just don't see this skill being used much in PvP (excepting duels).
Our bars are already full:
Petrify (or chains) / Inhale / Whip / Talons / Wings
Flex 1 / Prox / Armor / Igneous / Dragon Blood

The Flex 1 spot is almost always your Major Sorcery buff (Entropy) or Major Expedition (Mist form) or Purge. I suspect some people will try to replace Dragon Blood with Embers, but I'm not sure if that will work.

I think it's still good to slot it regardless of the heal. It's cheap decent damage that now can actually benefit from the CP system as opposed to getting neutered by it, and will be more effective Vs. sorcs and NBs. The heal is gravy. DKs would still need to inhale when multiple targets are within range regardless of what Embers does. Of course, a lot of the healing situation would get resolved if Dragon Blood wasn't compromised by the game's mechanics so maybe embers is ok as it is on the PTS.

Stalwart385

The burning embers heal buff should have been a dragon blood buff. Good to hear magicka DKs have some way to heal again I guess. Too bad it requires timing and positioning to use, not the best way to heal in pvp. I don't understand why they work around fixing dragon blood.

Ghost-Shot

Stalwart385 wrote: »

The burning embers heal buff should have been a dragon blood buff. Good to hear magicka DKs have some way to heal again I guess. Too bad it requires timing and positioning to use, not the best way to heal in pvp. I don't understand why they work around fixing dragon blood.

Because Wrobel is incompetent.

Sharkano

All this carping about burning embers is a joke. Go to the PTS and try chains to get people near you so as to even hit them 2x with burning embers. The chains don't work half the friggin time due to the height level lunacy that AFFECTS NO OTHER FREAKING CLASS (way to go, ZOS -- you listen to a few whiners who *** about being pulled off a wall and torpedo an entire skill line for an entire class), and the guy is gone before you hit him 2x anyway. LOL.