Calling all Tanks!
The Dungeon and Gameplay teams would love to get some feedback from all of you damage sponge, block mastering, mitigation kings out there. This thread is going to mainly cover PvE encounters specifically in group dungeons or Trials. If you like to play a tank in ESO and want to have your voice heard, or you don't and want us to know why, please answer the following questions. Please make sure you mention if you primarily play on console or PC.
1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Thanks a lot for your feedback. We look forward to hearing what you have to say!
Calling all Tanks!
The Dungeon and Gameplay teams would love to get some feedback from all of you damage sponge, block mastering, mitigation kings out there. This thread is going to mainly cover PvE encounters specifically in group dungeons or Trials. If you like to play a tank in ESO and want to have your voice heard, or you don't and want us to know why, please answer the following questions. Please make sure you mention if you primarily play on console or PC.
1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Thanks a lot for your feedback. We look forward to hearing what you have to say!
-I play on PC NA
-1) the fact that its survival is passive as opposed to active from other playstyles and being in the thick of enemies like a boss,
-2) you deal no damage as opposed to other playstyles, this makes everything except group play a chore and not fun.
-3) storm atro boss in AA trial, everyone died and I solo'd it.
-4) everything post stam regen nerf as I ended up playing a stamina management minigame that I did not enjoy.
-5) high mitigations and tough looking armor, it was fun taking hits on the chest that would cripple others.
-6) damage, other classes have just as much survivability in their own way that requires active management (casting heals or shields or what have you) but also have huge amounts of damage. because tank survivability is passive instead of active they pay for it with all damage, this makes them boring to play in 95% of all content, and why they are restricted to ONLY 1 if they are even wanted in the 5% of forced group content.
now before people start having brain farts and making themselves look a fool by saying things like "if tanks could do damage that would be broken!!11!1!!"
I kind of agree, if they did damage the classic way of having high damage dealing skills they can spam, yes, it would be bad. that's why they need damage that befits their role and playstyle. passive damage return built into heavy armor (ala DK dragon armor) that reflects a % amount of damage taken (not mitigated) this %damage reflect scales based on max health.
that way, to do damage a tank must invest in health, and be getting hit, taunting enemies and doing their roles job, the better they do their job, the more damage they do.
EDIT: also standardize armor values across all locations the current system benefits people who only wear 1-2 pieces of heavy and punishes tanks for wearing a full set.
Personofsecrets wrote: »Correct me if I am mistaken, but I've heard that tanks during the Burning Crusade times of WOW did the most damage out of everyone until everyone that wasn't a tank complained about tanks.
paulsimonps wrote: »6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Guard, would love an ability like it that protected allies from melee hits as well. I remember when I played Warhammer Online, the Orc Tanks had an ability that when he used it he took the hits from any ally standing behind him in a short cone area. That would be cool, I can't remember exactly how it used to work but I do remember that if the enemies went around the tank then the effect would not apply so it would give the tank a reason to move around and his allies would have to keep up with him if they wanted the protection. Could be cool to see in PvP as well as PvE, IF you make it so that it can't be kept up for ever and that the AI of the mobs and bosses learned that even if they were taunted on the tank their AoE's could hit more targets if they moved around the tank and stuff, like those abilities some bosses have that hit a random target. Would hate the skill if it just make it easier to stack and burn, I hate stack and burn. Any boss where we can skip mechanics cause we do enough damage that it dies before it can use it needs to be updated in someway.
I would like to comment on comments I see posted (nobody in particular) that often summarize to this:
"make content harder so tanks are required"
I disagree. this does not really work in group content (~5%), and has the complete adverse effect in solo content (~95%)
let me give a fast breakdown of why this is a bad idea and only hurts tanks further. as I have stated most archetypes have the same survivability its just that the classic tank survivability is passive rather then active. stamina and magicka dps builds have very good incoming healing because there main damage stats boost their healing, they are just required to actively heal and shield rather then passively reducing the damage.
tanks have no damage because of their focus on passive mitigation, not so for other archetypes. had to get that out of the way.
now say you increase difficulty through:
health: you buff enemy health to make combat last longer, this does not effect dps classes too much and only slightly increases their time to kill. however this makes tanks EVEN WORSE as they already have a ridiculously long time to kill and this only makes it longer. further more as tanks have poor resource regen compared to other archetypes they may in fact run out of resources and loose the fight to enemy attrition.
damage: you increase damage of enemies. this also has the worst effect on tanks. other classes can possibly still kill enemies fast enough to either not take any damage or minimize the amount of damage they take. classic tanks on the other hand lack that option and thus will be taking the most damage from this as they have a long time to kill, further, the increase in damage may make obsolete and mitigation and tank stats the tank was going for because the enemy will still kill them, thus forcing even more of a glass cannon burn style of build to kill enemies before they can hit you.
etc. anything you do via the world to try to force tanks has the adverse effect and can actually promote dps style of play.
people should WANT to play a tank style character, not feel FORCED to play a tank style character. right now the big problem with tanks is in the ~95% of solo content they just play to slow because they do no damage, and attrition is not a fun style of gameplay.
posting this for clarity:
tanks need damage that befits their role and playstyle:
passive damage return built into heavy armor (ala DK dragon armor) that reflects a % amount of damage taken (pre mitigation) this %damage reflect scales based on max health.
that way, to do damage a tank must invest in health, be getting hit, taunting enemies and doing their roles job, the better they do their job, the more damage they do.
this prevents damage stacking as tank damage is health dependent and not magicka or stamina. buffs heavy armor in a few ways: adds damage return, the +health will further increase that, and the mitigation and +health regen will be more usefull.
this makes tank survivability and damage both passive, good, and based on how good of a job they are doing, freeing them up to do that job. taunt enemies, position themselves, agro bosses, peel for their dps, initiate fights, block when required, etc.
if they do their job well, the survivability and damage will come second nature and thus not require them to focus on it, but on the duties their role requires.
ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »-snip-]"
ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Guard, would love an ability like it that protected allies from melee hits as well. I remember when I played Warhammer Online, the Orc Tanks had an ability that when he used it he took the hits from any ally standing behind him in a short cone area. That would be cool, I can't remember exactly how it used to work but I do remember that if the enemies went around the tank then the effect would not apply so it would give the tank a reason to move around and his allies would have to keep up with him if they wanted the protection. Could be cool to see in PvP as well as PvE, IF you make it so that it can't be kept up for ever and that the AI of the mobs and bosses learned that even if they were taunted on the tank their AoE's could hit more targets if they moved around the tank and stuff, like those abilities some bosses have that hit a random target. Would hate the skill if it just make it easier to stack and burn, I hate stack and burn. Any boss where we can skip mechanics cause we do enough damage that it dies before it can use it needs to be updated in someway.
This times a million!! I like the idea of Guard, but it could be so much more awesome (especially in the way you describe, which would encourage having harder hitting bosses and more group coordination). The armor sets that have chances to intercept attacks are very 'meh,' plus I disagree with basic balance or combat features being only accessible through set bonuses. Would also like to see a version of Guard that uses magicka, but don't have any ideas what such an ability would do though...
SmalltalkJava wrote: »the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
I think Vampires Mist form could be made into a nice tanking ability. It is almost there now. However the no heal/no regen aspect of it needs to be addressed. I haven't done the numbers but consider allowing heals/regen to function but just at a 80% reduced effect. So damage is reduced by 75%, but you only get healed for 20-10% of the heal that is cast on you. also allow the vampire drain to work while in mist form.
If you don't want to do both then at least allow the vampire siphon to work while in mist.
Then as a magical tank you could taunt, mist , then siphon.
WolfingHour wrote: »ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Guard, would love an ability like it that protected allies from melee hits as well. I remember when I played Warhammer Online, the Orc Tanks had an ability that when he used it he took the hits from any ally standing behind him in a short cone area. That would be cool, I can't remember exactly how it used to work but I do remember that if the enemies went around the tank then the effect would not apply so it would give the tank a reason to move around and his allies would have to keep up with him if they wanted the protection. Could be cool to see in PvP as well as PvE, IF you make it so that it can't be kept up for ever and that the AI of the mobs and bosses learned that even if they were taunted on the tank their AoE's could hit more targets if they moved around the tank and stuff, like those abilities some bosses have that hit a random target. Would hate the skill if it just make it easier to stack and burn, I hate stack and burn. Any boss where we can skip mechanics cause we do enough damage that it dies before it can use it needs to be updated in someway.
This times a million!! I like the idea of Guard, but it could be so much more awesome (especially in the way you describe, which would encourage having harder hitting bosses and more group coordination). The armor sets that have chances to intercept attacks are very 'meh,' plus I disagree with basic balance or combat features being only accessible through set bonuses. Would also like to see a version of Guard that uses magicka, but don't have any ideas what such an ability would do though...
TERA had a similar mechanich with the Lancer (dmg mitigaton tank class): party members behind a Lancer actively using block saw their incoming DMG reduced.
Had forgotten about this and it was great!
paulsimonps wrote: »SmalltalkJava wrote: »the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
I think Vampires Mist form could be made into a nice tanking ability. It is almost there now. However the no heal/no regen aspect of it needs to be addressed. I haven't done the numbers but consider allowing heals/regen to function but just at a 80% reduced effect. So damage is reduced by 75%, but you only get healed for 20-10% of the heal that is cast on you. also allow the vampire drain to work while in mist form.
If you don't want to do both then at least allow the vampire siphon to work while in mist.
Then as a magical tank you could taunt, mist , then siphon.
But why? Its super easy to get 75% mitigation. Heck just block with no gear on is 50%, then you got the sword and board passive with another 20%, Absorb Magick/Defensive Stance with another 8% and say you got somewhat good resist that's about 30-50% there as well.
paulsimonps wrote: »SmalltalkJava wrote: »the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
I think Vampires Mist form could be made into a nice tanking ability. It is almost there now. However the no heal/no regen aspect of it needs to be addressed. I haven't done the numbers but consider allowing heals/regen to function but just at a 80% reduced effect. So damage is reduced by 75%, but you only get healed for 20-10% of the heal that is cast on you. also allow the vampire drain to work while in mist form.
If you don't want to do both then at least allow the vampire siphon to work while in mist.
Then as a magical tank you could taunt, mist , then siphon.
But why? Its super easy to get 75% mitigation. Heck just block with no gear on is 50%, then you got the sword and board passive with another 20%, Absorb Magick/Defensive Stance with another 8% and say you got somewhat good resist that's about 30-50% there as well.
paulsimonps wrote: »SmalltalkJava wrote: »the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
I think Vampires Mist form could be made into a nice tanking ability. It is almost there now. However the no heal/no regen aspect of it needs to be addressed. I haven't done the numbers but consider allowing heals/regen to function but just at a 80% reduced effect. So damage is reduced by 75%, but you only get healed for 20-10% of the heal that is cast on you. also allow the vampire drain to work while in mist form.
If you don't want to do both then at least allow the vampire siphon to work while in mist.
Then as a magical tank you could taunt, mist , then siphon.
But why? Its super easy to get 75% mitigation. Heck just block with no gear on is 50%, then you got the sword and board passive with another 20%, Absorb Magick/Defensive Stance with another 8% and say you got somewhat good resist that's about 30-50% there as well.
Taunting IN PVP should be like something opposite to fear.
Current fear: player affected by fear is running away in direction opposite to person who casted it. During that he cant do anything and is out of control of his character.
Proposed taunt IN PVP: player who is targeted at taunt is allowed to move only in direction of person that applied taunt on him. During that he can attack, he can cast spells and fight normally but he can only approach the taunter.
Alternative taunt IN PVP: player who is targeted at taunt is allowed to attack only the person that casted a taunt on him. The person under taunt has his perception greatly increased thus the taunters character is greatly highlighted and clearly tagged for the person under taunt. Similar mechanic is already in game. If you have toggled on "prevent attack innocents" your character wont be able to attack while pointing crosschair at innocent person. Same could happen for everyone but the person who used taunt.
Taunt IN PVP could be either work similar to CC so you can break free from taunt with stamina and gain temporary taunt immunity or you wont be able to break free from taunt but you cant be taunted more than once per 45 seconds or something like that.
Also to preventing "taunt and run" trolling, taunting IN PVP only should reduce speed of taunter significantly, since taunt is something along "come at me bro and fight someone equal to you" and not "come at me bro.... if you can catch me".
paulsimonps wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »paulsimonps wrote: »6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Guard, would love an ability like it that protected allies from melee hits as well. I remember when I played Warhammer Online, the Orc Tanks had an ability that when he used it he took the hits from any ally standing behind him in a short cone area. That would be cool, I can't remember exactly how it used to work but I do remember that if the enemies went around the tank then the effect would not apply so it would give the tank a reason to move around and his allies would have to keep up with him if they wanted the protection. Could be cool to see in PvP as well as PvE, IF you make it so that it can't be kept up for ever and that the AI of the mobs and bosses learned that even if they were taunted on the tank their AoE's could hit more targets if they moved around the tank and stuff, like those abilities some bosses have that hit a random target. Would hate the skill if it just make it easier to stack and burn, I hate stack and burn. Any boss where we can skip mechanics cause we do enough damage that it dies before it can use it needs to be updated in someway.
This times a million!! I like the idea of Guard, but it could be so much more awesome (especially in the way you describe, which would encourage having harder hitting bosses and more group coordination). The armor sets that have chances to intercept attacks are very 'meh,' plus I disagree with basic balance or combat features being only accessible through set bonuses. Would also like to see a version of Guard that uses magicka, but don't have any ideas what such an ability would do though...
TERA had a similar mechanich with the Lancer (dmg mitigaton tank class): party members behind a Lancer actively using block saw their incoming DMG reduced.
Had forgotten about this and it was great!
You know that made me think of something that could help balance it out so it wouldn't be abused for stack and burn but still viable to save your allies in crucial situations. Make the allies under your protection do less damage going out. That way when big AoE's or such comes up you can activate it and protect them and during that short period their dmg is a bit lower but their surviavability goes up, then you disable it and they go back to 100% dps again. I mean its just a thought :P
1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Calling all Tanks!The Dungeon and Gameplay teams would love to get some feedback from all of you damage sponge, block mastering, mitigation kings out there. This thread is going to mainly cover PvE encounters specifically in group dungeons or Trials. If you like to play a tank in ESO and want to have your voice heard, or you don't and want us to know why, please answer the following questions. Please make sure you mention if you primarily play on console or PC.
1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Thanks a lot for your feedback. We look forward to hearing what you have to say!
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