Coming from a magsorc. Please ZOS, remove shieldstack!

AlnilamE · February 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Hardened + Healing Ward is enough shield for sorcs, just remove Harness from the equation.

In what sense? Harness is available to all classes. It's what I use on my Templar and it's pretty good.

But it's too strong when you can stack harness with your op blazing shield. Same as when I stack harness with igneous shield on my magicka dk.

Is it? I've never tried stacking it with Blazing shield because I have other things to put on my bars. I guess if you have a lot of health it would be good. I'll have to play with it, but since it doesn't proc Armor Master, it's never going to take precedence over Harness Magicka for me.

No, it's not, they are ~4k shields for most players which will be down after you took one hit in most cases. I just wanted to remind people that sorcs are not the only class with shields and shield stacking becomes more important when you have multiple small shields instead of a singel big one.
Maybe I should increase the font size of my signature.

LOL! Yeah. That would help. Especially when I haven't had enough coffee. I play on the TV and small font is SMALL!

NativeJoe · February 2016

Sorcs have 1 shielding skill the rest of you don't have. Hardened Ward. That is it. the OP wants that removed lol. I have seen dks with 86k shields in pve without barrier... so that translates to 43k shields in pvp...and they also have 6 seconds of 3% of their hp damage which effectively makes them immune to all damage. What about The perma block casting Templars we see in pvp that take 10 people 30+ seconds to kill ?

Idk what to tell you guys. My ward is a little over 12k in pvp, and I think this complaint about it needs to go in the trash bin, along with the 2nd round nerf cry for Bolt escape. It seems like people just want to Murder sorcs better, and it isn't a cry out because we are killing them or anything. I'd be more receptive to these complaints if it was a being one shot, or ambushed by sorcs...but u guys arn't being, you just want us easier to kill...which is somewhat understandable...but totally not resonable when you consider what the 3 other classes can and are doing on live right at this very momment. Next patch templars are going to be running around with BETTER survive-ability, 22k+ dark flares+javlin combos...and be wrecking everyone. I'm sorry we're tough prey to nail down and kill, but you don't need to ask for dev help... refine your technique, or get something different then your pve set for pvp.

Volkodav · February 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Will say it again...

ZOS really needs to make separate profiles for PvE and PvP so that they can change skills and mechanics for one without effecting the other.

Shield stacking in PvP needs to go away. Shield stacking in PvE is common and should be allowed

Nicely put.I agree with you hands down.

DRXHarbinger · February 2016

a1x23 wrote: »

Coming from a magicka sorc if we had a decent heal other than healing ward shield stacking wouldnt be as much if an issue. Hardened ward is our only defense and harness magicka only works against magicka builds and available to everyone. If i could actually heal myself without a shield i would but i have no other viable option.

Crits and proccd frags provide all the healing a sorc needs.

Refuse2GrowUp · February 2016

Katahdin wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Will say it again...

ZOS really needs to make separate profiles for PvE and PvP

No. There are those of us that play both PvE and PvP. Changing every freaking skill for each would be a royal pain in the but.

I am both a PvPer and PvEer. And, I play all classes (both stamina and magicka of each). So, I try to look at the game from a very unbiased perspective.

This is the issue: Most skill and mechanic changes that are made are done so to balance PvP. Unfortunately, making changes to skills and mechanics to balance PvP often has far reaching consequences for PvE. The way I see it, the only way to balance the game is to have separate profiles that the devs can make changes to without having any effect on the other.

These are just some of the issues that can be changed for PvP but have no effect on PvE:
* Shield stacking
* Stam regen during blocking
* Cumulative cost of roll dodge
* AOE damage and range
* Purge and Retreating Maneuvers
* Smart Heals, number of team mates effected by heals and group shields, and skills like BoL
*** Etc. Not an inclusive list; these are just examples

Understand that having separate PvP and PvE profiles for your toons would not be a burden (for most anyway), but rather an increase on QoL. Not only can the devs better balance the game, but we players could choose separate morphs for skills in our two profiles. There are numerous skills I would use different morphs for in one vs the other, but it is a pain in the backside to change them on the fly. If the devs took it one step further and permitted me to be a Vamp in PvP but not in PvE...well...it would just be a whole new game for me lol; lots more options in play styles.

Separate profiles would ideally work seemlessly without any effort on your part. I.e., you load into a PvP zone and your PvP profile automatically loads. The rest of the time, you are in your PvE profile. No extra effort on the players part other than the initial set-up.

Anyway, just wanted to explain what I meant. I'm not trying to change your opinion or force mine upon you.

corrosivechains · February 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Will say it again...

ZOS really needs to make separate profiles for PvE and PvP so that they can change skills and mechanics for one without effecting the other.

Shield stacking in PvP needs to go away. Shield stacking in PvE is common and should be allowed

I have already stopped my sub a couple weeks ago cause of broken stuff like this, i am a returning player from PC launch and playing on BWB. Last night, i saw 5 players sit there for over 60 seconds and just beat on a Sorc, he wasnt even streaking or doing anything except sitting there taking hits almost laughing at us. I consider myself a way better than avg player but this shield stacking is an absolute joke. We literally couldnt kill him and everybody just stopped. Yes i know he may have had a ton of CP running in BWB campaign which is another huge problem. That campaign should be extremely noob and new player friendly. Not for players with 400 CP to come back on with an alt and dominate. This game has so much potential but its still broken like it was at PC launch but now its just different things that are broken.

Blackwater Blade will be a no-CP campaign in the upcoming patch.

Now, that Sorc you were talking about, did he kill the 5 players that were beating on him? Did he manage to get away?

Because just standing there and taking a beating is not really winning either. When you are stacking shields (or healing) in order to survive an attack you aren't really fighting back.

Most of the tales of people shield stacking are "we couldn't kill him" tales. They aren't "he killed us all" tales. When a sorc is shield stacking, they are on the defensive, and being survivable while on the defense is a good thing.

That's pretty much what I get from it too. A bunch of nightblades complaining that their IWIN button is broken cause they can't gank their counter class. I've yet to see a single one of these "nerf shield stacking!" posts actually mention a sorcerer wrecking groups of people with no downtime. It's always "I/We couldn't kill them through their shields so I had to give up/run away".

Vaoh · February 2016

Whatever change is made in the future, it NEEDS to stay away from PvE. Sorcs rely on shields completely for survival. You screw that up in PvE, you ruin magicka Sorc entirely. Simple as that. Make changes specific to Cyrodiil.

Jsmalls · February 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

a1x23 wrote: »

Coming from a magicka sorc if we had a decent heal other than healing ward shield stacking wouldnt be as much if an issue. Hardened ward is our only defense and harness magicka only works against magicka builds and available to everyone. If i could actually heal myself without a shield i would but i have no other viable option.

Crits and proccd frags provide all the healing a sorc needs.

I laughed pretty hard.

Flaminir · February 2016

No... just no.

AT least here I can kinda agree with a comment Wrobel made the other day (Its a rare occurrence tbh...) but where he mentioned that there's no point in them adding a load of big changes all at once as they wouldn't have any idea what made the difference & they'll end up with something even more unbalanced than it is now.

The CP change in the next patch is going to allow people to add another 25% damage against damage shields if they want to. That on top of shieldbreaker is going to be very powerful.

Also remember barrier is now going to only hit 6 people.... so thats a LOT of people who won't be getting these huge barriers on top of their own shields in many fights.... thus reducing the number of shields in the stack.

Lets see how that change goes before crying for nerfs to a classes defining defensive skill. Remember they already nerfed Bolt Escape into the ground on repeatedly, lets not do the same with wards.

pecheckler · February 2016

I believe all damage shields scale off of defense ratings from equipment. The more defensive your stats the bigger the damage shield is boosted. Damage shields shouldn't just be something light armor wearers use.

Refuse2GrowUp · February 2016

pecheckler wrote: »

I believe all damage shields scale off of defense ratings from equipment. The more defensive your stats the bigger the damage shield is boosted. Damage shields shouldn't just be something light armor wearers use.

I use Harness Magicka and Igneous Shield on my DK tank, and he is Heavy Armor with 36k+ resistances

DannyLV702 · February 2016

My main has always been a sorc. If you shield stack and say those complaint need to "l2p" then you're the one who needs to l2p. I only use hardened Ward and healing Ward and it's still an OP combination. If I wanted to be a *** I would even use harness magica like I used to back when I used to suck at this game.

Sure, since it's possible to do it's fair gameplay, but shields really do need to override each other in PVP. Make it an addition to battle spirit. That way I can stop getting annoying messages from NBs saying how I only killed them because blah blah blah shield blah blah blah

Iove · February 2016

ajwest927 wrote: »

So you want us magicka sorcerer to be defenseless in battle?

what, like mag templars are? btw BoL is not a defence, most of the time it heals other players and not you xD

olsborg · February 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

Sorcs have 1 shielding skill the rest of you don't have. Hardened Ward. That is it. the OP wants that removed lol.

Not sure wich post youve been reading, but certainly not this one.

Tankqull · February 2016

Iove wrote: »

ajwest927 wrote: »

So you want us magicka sorcerer to be defenseless in battle?

what, like mag templars are? btw BoL is not a defence, most of the time it heals other players and not you xD

thats a problem with "smart" healing ... not with BoL itself wich mitigates more dmg than hardend ward does.

Iove · February 2016

Tankqull wrote: »

Iove wrote: »

ajwest927 wrote: »

So you want us magicka sorcerer to be defenseless in battle?

what, like mag templars are? btw BoL is not a defence, most of the time it heals other players and not you xD

thats a problem with "smart" healing ... not with BoL itself wich mitigates more dmg than hardend ward does.

The ward is uncrittable, and BoL costs so much magicka. Even while spamming it to survive, which is needed because we suck at survivability, we run out of magicka and don't have enough for damage abilities. Wooo! Templars! Resurrect, ride, die.

aLi3nZ · February 2016

How much resistance does nb and dk's generally have?

Just wondering since I got my sourc all the way to 18k physical and spell resistance with 3500 spell damage and 59% crit rating. Ware wolf rings, 2 peice heavy armor, bound agies, boundless storm. No sheild/Ward is unlocked since I am lowbie.

KramUzibra · February 2016

corrosivechains wrote: »

ok, people asking for shield stacking nerfs, I'm just going to say it now...lrn2play

seriously, lrn2play. If what you're doing isn't working then it's a matter of lrn2play. These things aren't overpowered, you're just stubborn and deadset on singleplayer gaming mindsets. Or just realize that a sorc is the counter to glass-canon nightblade gank builds.

In regards to armor light should grant the least resistance, then medium and heavy the most. Right know a sorc in light armor sheild stacking rivals a dk tank in all heavy when it comes to tanking. This just doesn't make sense.

corrosivechains · February 2016

KramUzibra wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

ok, people asking for shield stacking nerfs, I'm just going to say it now...lrn2play

seriously, lrn2play. If what you're doing isn't working then it's a matter of lrn2play. These things aren't overpowered, you're just stubborn and deadset on singleplayer gaming mindsets. Or just realize that a sorc is the counter to glass-canon nightblade gank builds.

In regards to armor light should grant the least resistance, then medium and heavy the most. Right know a sorc in light armor sheild stacking rivals a dk tank in all heavy when it comes to tanking. This just doesn't make sense.

I agree that is a problem, but as the numerous "buff heavy armor" threads can attest too, the issue isn't shield stack, it's been near constant nerfs to turtle/tank builds in general. The answer is to bring heavy armor back up and increase it's utility.

KramUzibra · February 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a fan of all the nerfs to defensive skills we are getting in every patch. But I'm curious, how do you imagine the removal of shield stacking to look like? Which shield will get priority? The biggest one? Or the one with the longest duration? And what about shields that only protect you from a certain type of damage?

Correct me if I'm wrong but as a sorc you have a shield that once cast it gives you a certain amount of resistance then when applied damage your able to stack the same shield on top of your currently active shield with the added amount of resistance on top of the partial resistance from the last shield you can continue to stack like this within the limits of your magicka pool. If this is true then zos should make it that once you cast a shield whether or not damage was done to it, if the same shield where to be cast again then the new shield cancels out the old shield and replaced. Basically you could only have one of the same shield active at a time.

olsborg · February 2016

KramUzibra wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a fan of all the nerfs to defensive skills we are getting in every patch. But I'm curious, how do you imagine the removal of shield stacking to look like? Which shield will get priority? The biggest one? Or the one with the longest duration? And what about shields that only protect you from a certain type of damage?

Correct me if I'm wrong but as a sorc you have a shield that once cast it gives you a certain amount of resistance then when applied damage your able to stack the same shield on top of your currently active shield with the added amount of resistance on top of the partial resistance from the last shield you can continue to stack like this within the limits of your magicka pool. If this is true then zos should make it that once you cast a shield whether or not damage was done to it, if the same shield where to be cast again then the new shield cancels out the old shield and replaced. Basically you could only have one of the same shield active at a time.

No, you cant stack the same shield on top of eachother with repeated casts, you can only stack different types of shields like igneous shield, harness magicka, blazing shield and hardened ward and healing ward etc etc

Derra · February 2016

If they don´t nerf stacking they will eventually nerf all shields which will result in nerfing builds that use only one shield harder than shieldstacking ones forcing everyone to stack shields even more.

I think removing stacking and rebalancing as well as reevaluating the purpose of each individual shieldskill (and eventually rework them) is better than nerfing shields flatout because one will increase build variety while the other will decrease it.

They´re not going to stay the way they are because of one case: Hardened + Harness/Dampen + healing ward is too strong.

Refuse2GrowUp · February 2016

KramUzibra wrote: »

Basically you could only have one of the same shield active at a time.

That is how shields work currently. It doesn't add resistances, and thus mitigate damage, but rather absorbs all damage, up to the cap of that shield, for the particular damage type the shield is meant for. Recasting the shield simply resets the total amount of dmg it can absorb up to its cap. It does not stack on the previous shield increasing the cap. That is not what 'shield stacking' means. The term 'shield stacking' refers to having multiple shields active at the same time, i.e. Hardened Ward, Healing Ward, Harness Magicka, Bone shield, Blazing Shield, Igneous Shield, Barrier, etc.

PlagueMonk · February 2016

Lenikus wrote: »

No.
There are shields for magical damage, generic damage, situational shields, and whatnot.

Leave shieldstacking as it is.

Just *effin'* use shieldbreaker, or add a magicka version of that. (unresistable enchant also help.)

edit 4 profanity

You want me to counter abused skills with an ENTIRE armor set? How exactly is that fair because you are basically gimping yourself in every other situation just to counter this OPed playstyle.

You want to stack shields? Then give the Fighters Guild a single Shield Breaker skill I can slot. THEN it will be more fair.

KramUzibra · February 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Basically you could only have one of the same shield active at a time.

That is how shields work currently. It doesn't add resistances, and thus mitigate damage, but rather absorbs all damage, up to the cap of that shield, for the particular damage type the shield is meant for. Recasting the shield simply resets the total amount of dmg it can absorb up to its cap. It does not stack on the previous shield increasing the cap. That is not what 'shield stacking' means. The term 'shield stacking' refers to having multiple shields active at the same time, i.e. Hardened Ward, Healing Ward, Harness Magicka, Bone shield, Blazing Shield, Igneous Shield, Barrier, etc.

Oooohhh...so any class should be able to stack shields? Also if any class can stack why are sorcs being singled out?

KramUzibra · February 2016

PlagueMonk wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

No.
There are shields for magical damage, generic damage, situational shields, and whatnot.

Leave shieldstacking as it is.

Just *effin'* use shieldbreaker, or add a magicka version of that. (unresistable enchant also help.)

edit 4 profanity

You want me to counter abused skills with an ENTIRE armor set? How exactly is that fair because you are basically gimping yourself in every other situation just to counter this OPed playstyle.

You want to stack shields? Then give the Fighters Guild a single Shield Breaker skill I can slot. THEN it will be more fair.

I agree I shouldn't have to build my character to combat a single type of player.

KramUzibra · February 2016

corrosivechains wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

corrosivechains wrote: »

ok, people asking for shield stacking nerfs, I'm just going to say it now...lrn2play

seriously, lrn2play. If what you're doing isn't working then it's a matter of lrn2play. These things aren't overpowered, you're just stubborn and deadset on singleplayer gaming mindsets. Or just realize that a sorc is the counter to glass-canon nightblade gank builds.

In regards to armor light should grant the least resistance, then medium and heavy the most. Right know a sorc in light armor sheild stacking rivals a dk tank in all heavy when it comes to tanking. This just doesn't make sense.

I agree that is a problem, but as the numerous "buff heavy armor" threads can attest too, the issue isn't shield stack, it's been near constant nerfs to turtle/tank builds in general. The answer is to bring heavy armor back up and increase it's utility.

This sounds like a pretty reasonable solution to this shield stacking playstyle. I support 100%

corrosivechains · February 2016

KramUzibra wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Basically you could only have one of the same shield active at a time.

That is how shields work currently. It doesn't add resistances, and thus mitigate damage, but rather absorbs all damage, up to the cap of that shield, for the particular damage type the shield is meant for. Recasting the shield simply resets the total amount of dmg it can absorb up to its cap. It does not stack on the previous shield increasing the cap. That is not what 'shield stacking' means. The term 'shield stacking' refers to having multiple shields active at the same time, i.e. Hardened Ward, Healing Ward, Harness Magicka, Bone shield, Blazing Shield, Igneous Shield, Barrier, etc.

Oooohhh...so any class should be able to stack shields? Also if any class can stack why are sorcs being singled out?

Sorcs are being singled out because they're a counter class to Nightblades, and since Nightblades are receiving a nerf with thieves guild(from something that's in the mages guild skill line no less, not sorcs), and also Wrobel having veritable diarrhea of the mouth during the livestream, they're hopping on the "nerf shield stacking" train. Nightblades and Sorcerers are the two most represented classes in PvP, because Nightblades are the equivalent of the stealthy rogue ganker(which is always popular) and Sorcs, their counter class. It's a case of one class demanding an ultimate IWIN button.

dodgehopper_ESO · February 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

ajwest927 wrote: »

So you want us magicka sorcerer to be defenseless in battle?

Mag Sorcs have Hardened Ward. You do NOT need to shield stack in PvP. Yes, I play a MagSorc; no I do not shield stack; yes, I do very well in PvP without shield stacking. If you really need to shield stack, then you are doing something wrong.

Lenikus wrote: »

People who don't shieldbreaker need to stop doing pvp

I play several toons, and one of them is a Stam NB ganker build that runs Shield Breaker. I am a fan of the set, and think it serves its purpose well. That however is a completely different subject altogether.

Shield stacking is not required. Furthermore, those sorcs doing so are doing a disservice to themselves and the sorc community as this is a big part of why the devs are considering giving shields a 1.5 second cast time...a nerf that will likely be the death of sorcs both in PvP and in PvE.

I really hope they don't add a cast time to shields. For Templars this will mean an unusable shield will become a never used shield. Its just a bad idea all around.

SahrotRein · February 2016

Eric Wrobel has talked about shield stacking on the previous ESO live. He referred to variations of shields (Harness Magicka, Hardened Ward or Healing Ward) as to something that would be complicated to balance because every shield does its own different thing.

He also pointed out that somebody had an idea, to make any shield count as "Major" buff, which does seem nice and a good solution but as was said previously, there are many variations of shields, it would go againts itself.

He discussed this topic well enough to give you a clear answer, you should watch some ESO live