Coming from a magsorc. Please ZOS, remove shieldstack!

FriedEggSandwich · February 2016

Lenikus wrote: »

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Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Shield stacking in PvP needs to go away.

People who don't shieldbreaker need to stop doing pvp

Magicka builds need to stop doing pvp?

FriedEggSandwich · February 2016

olsborg wrote: »

nuffsaid

Brave post op but good job! I fully agree. Shield stacking was once necessary back in 1.6 when ttk was almost non-existant, and pre-1.5 when hardened ward was a weak skill. These days of 501cp it's nothing but a crutch that allows good sorcs to be lazy and bad sorcs to be good. The mechanic needs a nerf at the very least, diminishing returns or something.

FriedEggSandwich · February 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

Sorcs have 1 shielding skill the rest of you don't have. Hardened Ward. That is it. the OP wants that removed lol. I have seen dks with 86k shields in pve without barrier... so that translates to 43k shields in pvp...and they also have 6 seconds of 3% of their hp damage which effectively makes them immune to all damage. What about The perma block casting Templars we see in pvp that take 10 people 30+ seconds to kill ?

Idk what to tell you guys. My ward is a little over 12k in pvp, and I think this complaint about it needs to go in the trash bin, along with the 2nd round nerf cry for Bolt escape. It seems like people just want to Murder sorcs better, and it isn't a cry out because we are killing them or anything. I'd be more receptive to these complaints if it was a being one shot, or ambushed by sorcs...but u guys arn't being, you just want us easier to kill...which is somewhat understandable...but totally not resonable when you consider what the 3 other classes can and are doing on live right at this very momment. Next patch templars are going to be running around with BETTER survive-ability, 22k+ dark flares+javlin combos...and be wrecking everyone. I'm sorry we're tough prey to nail down and kill, but you don't need to ask for dev help... refine your technique, or get something different then your pve set for pvp.

The op is a sorc and doesn't want hardened ward removed, they want shield-stacking removed, and as a sorc I agree.

MrGigglypants · February 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

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AlnilamE wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Hardened + Healing Ward is enough shield for sorcs, just remove Harness from the equation.

In what sense? Harness is available to all classes. It's what I use on my Templar and it's pretty good.

But it's too strong when you can stack harness with your op blazing shield. Same as when I stack harness with igneous shield on my magicka dk.

Is it? I've never tried stacking it with Blazing shield because I have other things to put on my bars. I guess if you have a lot of health it would be good. I'll have to play with it, but since it doesn't proc Armor Master, it's never going to take precedence over Harness Magicka for me.

No, it's not, they are ~4k shields for most players which will be down after you took one hit in most cases. I just wanted to remind people that sorcs are not the only class with shields and shield stacking becomes more important when you have multiple small shields instead of a singel big one.
Maybe I should increase the font size of my signature.

Lol what I can stack 20k shields in pvp with just hardened and harness.

EZgoin76 · February 2016

I main a sorc and don't bother shield stacking. As long as they make it so that casting a new shield just negates your current shield, then no problem. I just hope they don't extend cast times.

ajwest927 · February 2016

olsborg wrote: »

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ajwest927 wrote: »

So you want us magicka sorcerer to be defenseless in battle?

Defenceless? Sorc can be one of the tankiest classes (magicka) and taking away shieldstacking will not change that, if you truely believe that you need to l2p.

Its seem like those who want shieldstacking nerf must be having a hard time killing magicka sorcerer then they need to l2p

FriedEggSandwich · February 2016

ajwest927 wrote: »

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olsborg wrote: »

ajwest927 wrote: »

So you want us magicka sorcerer to be defenseless in battle?

Defenceless? Sorc can be one of the tankiest classes (magicka) and taking away shieldstacking will not change that, if you truely believe that you need to l2p.

Its seem like those who want shieldstacking nerf must be having a hard time killing magicka sorcerer then they need to l2p

Don't be silly. Stamina hits a bit harder than magicka pound for pound, has 7-9k less shield to get through and has sole access to the shield-breaker set. On top of that magicka builds have had their damage against shields weakened by cp whereas stamina builds haven't. Having a problem with this isn't a l2p issue. Why should sorcs be >70% tougher against magicka builds? This is unbalanced, what is the counter-balance?

Damage absorption is a sorcs thing and I think most people who understand the game mechanics are ok with this idea, but shields are a mess right now on live and pts. They're not consistent in any way. Why do some things proc off them and others don't? Why do they stack in favour of stamina? I don't particularly want shields to be crittable but I have to admit that I can't think of a good reason why they can't be, other than single shields wouldn't cope without a buff.

How do you balance a single shield like hardened or harness or healing when players just combine all 3? Complaints about shield stacking are valid, if zos don't address it then the sorc class will suffer.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

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Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Hardened + Healing Ward is enough shield for sorcs, just remove Harness from the equation.

In what sense? Harness is available to all classes. It's what I use on my Templar and it's pretty good.

Stacking harness with blazing or igneous shield is fine bc they both give relative small shields, unlike hardened ward.

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

Sun Shield (Templar) Surround yourself with a solar shield that absorbs damage equal to (27)% of your Max Health. Each successful hit increases the shield's strength by (4)% Nearby enemies take (x) Magic Damage when the shield is activated.

Obsidian Shield (DK) Call the earth to your defense, creating [x] point damage shield on you and nearby allies for 20 seconds. Absorb (x) damage dealt to allies. Shield strength increases 100% for you.

Magma Shell (DK) Ignite the molten lava in your veins to cap incoming damage at 3% Max Health and deal (x) Flame Damage to nearby enemies each second for 9 seconds. Allies may activate the Protective Shell synergy, granting a damage shield for 100% of their max Health. Allies may activate a synergy granting a powerful damage shield [shield is applied instantly after TG update]

Conjure Ward (Sorc) Conjure globes of Daedric energy to protect you and your summoned creatures. Each globe can absorb [x] damage for 20 seconds.

Annulment (Light Armor) Surround yourself with a net of magic negation to absorb up to [x] Spell Damage over 26 seconds.

Steadfast Ward (Restoration Staff) Call on your staff's strength to protect whichever ally has the lowest Health with a ward to absorb [x] damage for 6 seconds. The ward's strength is increased by up to 300%, depending on the severity of the target's wounds.

Shielded Assault (One-handed and Shield) Rush enemy and ram them, dealing [x] Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds. You are shielded from damage after the attack, absorbing [y] damage over 6 seconds.

Brawler (Two-Handed) Swat enemies in front of you with a mighty swing, dealing [x] Physical Damage and causing them to bleed for an additional [y] Physical Damage over 10 seconds. Also shields you from damage for 8 seconds, absorbing up to [z] damage plus 100% for each enemy hit. Adds damage shield for each enemy hit.

Bone Shield (Undaunted) Surround yourself with a whirlwind of bones, absorbing physical damage equivalent to 30% of your Max Health. Allies can activate the Bone Wall synergy, absorbing damage to allies equal to 60% of their Max Health. The wall lasts 10 seconds and affects up to four nearby allies.

Barrier (Alliance Support) Invoke defensive tactics to protect yourself and nearby allies with wards that each absorb up to (x) damage for 30 seconds.

In my eyes the shields can be divided into 3 different categories:

Minor/Situational Shield
Sun Shield
Obsidian Shield
Steadfast Ward
Shielded Assault
Brawler
Bone Shield

Major Shield
Conjure Ward
Annulment

Ultimate Shield
Magma Shell
Barrier

Shields from the first category should stack with each other.
Shields from the second and third category should not stack with each other.

This would fix the shield stacking problem without hurting specific builds/classes too much.
I also think there should be an adjustment for shields scaling off health in Cyrodiil but thats a different discussion.

olsborg · February 2016

Light armor skill should just be fundamentally changed to something else. Something to benefit spellcasting offencively or defencively.

hammayolettuce · February 2016

Class shields and harness should be major shielding and then healing ward and the others can be minor. Harness + hardened is the issue.

Destruent · February 2016

Doncellius wrote: »

Whatever change is made in the future, it NEEDS to stay away from PvE. Sorcs rely on shields completely for survival. You screw that up in PvE, you ruin magicka Sorc entirely. Simple as that. Make changes specific to Cyrodiil.

Sorcs need only one Skill in PvE for survival...hardened ward (and crit surge, but it's no shield so not relevant in this discussion). A fix to shieldstacking (or preventing it) wouldn't change anything for PvE-Sorcs.

Acsvf · February 2016

olsborg wrote: »

nuffsaid

Why, exactly?

Tower_Of_Shame · February 2016

A good start could be like in 1.5 you can not reapply your shield until it is gone, cause atm u can just spam like no tomorrow. Back in a day you could spam but until you still left a little shield on it wouldnt reapply itself thus with a well placed CC you could get your kill.

Today you CC them then stack stack stack, and you will never ever touch their healthbar anymore

Refuse2GrowUp · February 2016

Destruent wrote: »

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Doncellius wrote: »

Whatever change is made in the future, it NEEDS to stay away from PvE. Sorcs rely on shields completely for survival. You screw that up in PvE, you ruin magicka Sorc entirely. Simple as that. Make changes specific to Cyrodiil.

Sorcs need only one Skill in PvE for survival...hardened ward (and crit surge, but it's no shield so not relevant in this discussion). A fix to shieldstacking (or preventing it) wouldn't change anything for PvE-Sorcs.

If they add a 1.5 second cast time to Hardened Ward, it will likely change everything for Sorcs, in both PvE and PvP

Destruent · February 2016

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

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Destruent wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Whatever change is made in the future, it NEEDS to stay away from PvE. Sorcs rely on shields completely for survival. You screw that up in PvE, you ruin magicka Sorc entirely. Simple as that. Make changes specific to Cyrodiil.

Sorcs need only one Skill in PvE for survival...hardened ward (and crit surge, but it's no shield so not relevant in this discussion). A fix to shieldstacking (or preventing it) wouldn't change anything for PvE-Sorcs.

If they add a 1.5 second cast time to Hardened Ward, it will likely change everything for Sorcs, in both PvE and PvP

Sure...but even then...You won't need that much else. If you'll face magic damage you can switch to absorb magic to avoid the cast time...no need to shield stack in pve.

Refuse2GrowUp · February 2016

Destruent wrote: »

show previous quotes

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Doncellius wrote: »

Whatever change is made in the future, it NEEDS to stay away from PvE. Sorcs rely on shields completely for survival. You screw that up in PvE, you ruin magicka Sorc entirely. Simple as that. Make changes specific to Cyrodiil.

Sorcs need only one Skill in PvE for survival...hardened ward (and crit surge, but it's no shield so not relevant in this discussion). A fix to shieldstacking (or preventing it) wouldn't change anything for PvE-Sorcs.

If they add a 1.5 second cast time to Hardened Ward, it will likely change everything for Sorcs, in both PvE and PvP

Sure...but even then...You won't need that much else. If you'll face magic damage you can switch to absorb magic to avoid the cast time...no need to shield stack in pve.

I slot Harness every now and then, for resources as much as a shield. If I slot it, it is on my overload bar and only applied at certain moments.

Anyway, that aside. My bigger concern if they do away with shield stacking isn't whether or not an individual decides to run one or multiple shields, but rather the way shields will take precedent in a team play scenario. If I have Hardened Ward on and a DK Tank pops Igneous or Magma, will it over ride and negate my Ward? What if the Tank is wearing the Imerium set? What if the Healer casts Healing Ward, or someone casts Barrier, etc? My bigger concern is the way shields will override each other and possibly trump/remove my Hardened Ward.

And, of course, if @Wrobel proceeds with his plans to add a 1.5 second cast time to Hardened Ward and possibly other shields as well, then this conversation is irrelevant as Sorcs will be useless in both PvE and PvP.

olsborg · February 2016

And, of course, if @Wrobel proceeds with his plans to add a 1.5 second cast time to Hardened Ward and possibly other shields as well, then this conversation is irrelevant as Sorcs will be useless in both PvE and PvP.

They dont need to add cast time to shields if they remove the ability to stack big shields ontop of eachother, thats the issue not 1 shield on its own.

themdogesbite · February 2016

Shieldstacking should NOT be removed, instead there needs to be a rework on how shields apply whilst already active IMO. There's more classes then sorcs that uses shields you know.. the rest of us arent so damn blessed that one shield is enough, we need to stack them in pvp.

olsborg · February 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

In my eyes the shields can be divided into 3 different categories:

Minor/Situational Shield
Sun Shield
Obsidian Shield
Steadfast Ward
Shielded Assault
Brawler
Bone Shield

Major Shield
Conjure Ward
Annulment

Ultimate Shield
Magma Shell
Barrier

Shields from the first category should stack with each other.
Shields from the second and third category should not stack with each other.

This would fix the shield stacking problem without hurting specific builds/classes too much.
I also think there should be an adjustment for shields scaling off health in Cyrodiil but thats a different discussion.

I really like this idea, I know its been said before, but this would be much, much better then whats possible in live atm. Thx

Refuse2GrowUp · February 2016

Ya know, one interesting idea, something I have not thought of previously...

There have been lots of discussions about shields and shield stacking. Suggestions are often...
* Leave everything as is and L2P
* Make them a major and minor, more like a buff than a skill
* Don't let shields stacks; make them over ride eachother
* And now from the devs, add cast times to force you to apply before entering combat

Well, what if, rather than any of the above, skill bars were programmed so that you can only have one of a certain type of skill per a bar...in this case shields. Examples:
* A magSorc could have Hardened front bar and Healing Ward back but if (s)he tried to put them both front bar, the second would simply remove the first (kind of like when you put the same skill in two slots).
* A DK could have Magma Armor front bar and Igneous back but not both on the same bar.
* A Templar could have Blazing, Healing, or Harness Mag front bar and Barrier back bar, but again, no more than a single shield on each bar.

This idea, although maybe not perfect, would...
* reduce the impact of shield stacking as a single player would be limited to two shields at most
* prevent complications that might arise from shields over riding each other in team play if shield stacking were removed altogether, especially when taking into account shield ults and shields proc'd by set bonuses
* negate the need for cast times as that, in my humble opinion, is far from a good idea
* have little to no impact on PvE but help cap a PvP concern
*

Not too mention, programming skill bars this way might open the door to balance ideas in the future

Thoughts?

ZOS team @ZOS_GinaBruno and @Wrobel hope this helps lead to some out of the box ideas about how to overcome some of the current balance issues and player concerns

Artjuh90 · February 2016

@Refuse2GrowUp would *** up my tank dk though which uses spiked armor, igneus shield and boneshield (sometimes). so it would screw him because there are no decent shields for him. while boneshield is nice the stamina cost is insame if you compare it to other shields

Refuse2GrowUp · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

@Refuse2GrowUp would *** up my tank dk though which uses spiked armor, igneus shield and boneshield (sometimes). so it would screw him because there are no decent shields for him. while boneshield is nice the stamina cost is insame if you compare it to other shields

@Artjuh90 Spiked/Hardened Armor is damage mitigation buff and not a damage shield; just as Circle of Protection in a buff vice a shield. Personally, I wouldn't include it in the list of shields and would not subject it to my idea above.

My idea would however limit you to only two of the following: Magma/Corrosive, Igneous, Bone Shield

Hope that alleviates your concern mate

Artjuh90 · February 2016

@Refuse2GrowUp well the fact remains i use hardend ward which does give a shield as bonus which makes it not a good morph. because i endup overriding it so i'm kinda forced to go volitiale which isn't to bad but i wouldn't like it

joleda4ub17_ESO · February 2016

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Sun Shield (Templar) Surround yourself with a solar shield that absorbs damage equal to (27)% of your Max Health. Each successful hit increases the shield's strength by (4)% Nearby enemies take (x) Magic Damage when the shield is activated.

Obsidian Shield (DK) Call the earth to your defense, creating [x] point damage shield on you and nearby allies for 20 seconds. Absorb (x) damage dealt to allies. Shield strength increases 100% for you.

Magma Shell (DK) Ignite the molten lava in your veins to cap incoming damage at 3% Max Health and deal (x) Flame Damage to nearby enemies each second for 9 seconds. Allies may activate the Protective Shell synergy, granting a damage shield for 100% of their max Health. Allies may activate a synergy granting a powerful damage shield [shield is applied instantly after TG update]

Conjure Ward (Sorc) Conjure globes of Daedric energy to protect you and your summoned creatures. Each globe can absorb [x] damage for 20 seconds.

Annulment (Light Armor) Surround yourself with a net of magic negation to absorb up to [x] Spell Damage over 26 seconds.

Steadfast Ward (Restoration Staff) Call on your staff's strength to protect whichever ally has the lowest Health with a ward to absorb [x] damage for 6 seconds. The ward's strength is increased by up to 300%, depending on the severity of the target's wounds.

Shielded Assault (One-handed and Shield) Rush enemy and ram them, dealing [x] Physical Damage and stunning them for 2 seconds. You are shielded from damage after the attack, absorbing [y] damage over 6 seconds.

Brawler (Two-Handed) Swat enemies in front of you with a mighty swing, dealing [x] Physical Damage and causing them to bleed for an additional [y] Physical Damage over 10 seconds. Also shields you from damage for 8 seconds, absorbing up to [z] damage plus 100% for each enemy hit. Adds damage shield for each enemy hit.

Bone Shield (Undaunted) Surround yourself with a whirlwind of bones, absorbing physical damage equivalent to 30% of your Max Health. Allies can activate the Bone Wall synergy, absorbing damage to allies equal to 60% of their Max Health. The wall lasts 10 seconds and affects up to four nearby allies.

Barrier (Alliance Support) Invoke defensive tactics to protect yourself and nearby allies with wards that each absorb up to (x) damage for 30 seconds.

In my eyes the shields can be divided into 3 different categories:

Minor/Situational Shield
Sun Shield
Obsidian Shield
Steadfast Ward
Shielded Assault
Brawler
Bone Shield

Major Shield
Conjure Ward
Annulment

Ultimate Shield
Magma Shell
Barrier

Shields from the first category should stack with each other.
Shields from the second and third category should not stack with each other.

This would fix the shield stacking problem without hurting specific builds/classes too much.
I also think there should be an adjustment for shields scaling off health in Cyrodiil but thats a different discussion.

I like it! Your reply to the thread won't get many responses because you didn't tell someone to L2P. Maybe you should insult someone's mother? Ha!

In a way, your idea appears to group shields into a Major and Minor system. It could work.

Refuse2GrowUp · February 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

@Refuse2GrowUp well the fact remains i use hardend ward which does give a shield as bonus which makes it not a good morph. because i endup overriding it so i'm kinda forced to go volitiale which isn't to bad but i wouldn't like it

Lol, forgot Hardened Ward provides a small damage shield on activation. Yup, complicates it. Guess I would ask the devs to change the skill some and provide a different buff on activation vice a shield if they went with my idea. A small HoT or minor team buff would work nicely in the place of the shield

Septimus_Magna · February 2016

olsborg wrote: »

show previous quotes

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

In my eyes the shields can be divided into 3 different categories:

Minor/Situational Shield
Sun Shield
Obsidian Shield
Steadfast Ward
Shielded Assault
Brawler
Bone Shield

Major Shield
Conjure Ward
Annulment

Ultimate Shield
Magma Shell
Barrier

Shields from the first category should stack with each other.
Shields from the second and third category should not stack with each other.

This would fix the shield stacking problem without hurting specific builds/classes too much.
I also think there should be an adjustment for shields scaling off health in Cyrodiil but thats a different discussion.

I really like this idea, I know its been said before, but this would be much, much better then whats possible in live atm. Thx

Too much as in sorcs would get significantly weaker?

That could easily be adjusted by increasing hardened ward value slightly. Its much easier to balance with just one variable.

There is an issue with skills like Power Surge in Cyrodiil that needs to be adjusted. The heals scale of crit dmg done, which is reduced by at least 50%. The heals from that should not reduced by another 50%. If skills like this would function properly sorcs would be less dependant on their shield(s).

Same goes for the Dragon Blood heal for DKs, its already limited by the amount of health missing so why reduce it by another 50%?

Its good that the Battle Spirit reduced dmg, healing and shields but some skills are completely useless because they way the value is calculated.

joleda4ub17_ESO · February 2016

Why not remove Battle Spirit and then do some balancing? Then, if needed, apply some form of Battle Spirit again.

I think Battle Spirit is BS. It provides a bigger % bonus to glass cannons than it does to non-glass cannons. It accentuates flaws in the system and actually provides more imbalance. Not to mention it nerfs some races while not touching others.

corrosivechains · February 2016

See, pretty much this whole idea is to break 3 classes, one of which is already broken, two of which are underrepresented, and 1 which actually relies on it for it's survivability, just to satisfy a "majority" which chose a class with the hopes of being overpowered gankers and realizing that's not what the class actually is.

If the removal of shield stacking goes through, then the magelight debuff needs to be brought back up to 5s on the PTS, with a much wider radius, so those who rely on shields for survival can actually have a modicum of prep time.

That said, I think it's time for DK's, Templars, and Sorcs to all start shield stacking and build for tankiness just to spite Nightblades. Bunch of whiners.

PlagueMonk · February 2016

corrosivechains wrote: »

See, pretty much this whole idea is to break 3 classes, one of which is already broken, two of which are underrepresented, and 1 which actually relies on it for it's survivability, just to satisfy a "majority" which chose a class with the hopes of being overpowered gankers and realizing that's not what the class actually is.

If the removal of shield stacking goes through, then the magelight debuff needs to be brought back up to 5s on the PTS, with a much wider radius, so those who rely on shields for survival can actually have a modicum of prep time.

That said, I think it's time for DK's, Templars, and Sorcs to all start shield stacking and build for tankiness just to spite Nightblades. Bunch of whiners.

Lol, you talk about QQing but it was QQing from people like YOU that got the insane magelight buff and DoT removel from our cloak. I also hate to break it to you but that buff also kind of breaks the NB, especially for mageblades so let's not talk "broken".

Last, you people just do not get that the magelight buff is only going to INCREASE the ganking as NBs that relied on cloak abandon it, switch to stamina and start sniping your asses. Won't matter anymore what the magelight buff is after that unless they give you 100% immunity from all attacks (oh wait, you already HAVE that with shield stacking)