Coming from a magsorc. Please ZOS, remove shieldstack!
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Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
✭corrosivechains wrote: »See, pretty much this whole idea is to break 3 classes, one of which is already broken, two of which are underrepresented, and 1 which actually relies on it for it's survivability, just to satisfy a "majority" which chose a class with the hopes of being overpowered gankers and realizing that's not what the class actually is.
If the removal of shield stacking goes through, then the magelight debuff needs to be brought back up to 5s on the PTS, with a much wider radius, so those who rely on shields for survival can actually have a modicum of prep time.
That said, I think it's time for DK's, Templars, and Sorcs to all start shield stacking and build for tankiness just to spite Nightblades. Bunch of whiners.
you are aware there is no single abilty that can be locked out of right?
you are aware that you can CC lock a NB in going into stealth?
how you you like Mr Sorc if we could lock you out using heals/shields with a single abilty for 5 seconds?
but i'm fine with the cloak nerf, the mayor overpowered issue(s) NB have are still there. and guess what cloak wasn't one of them
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sagitter✭✭✭✭✭In almost of all mmorpgs if u choose to go full offensive, putting all your stats point into magicka, u do big damage but you have weak defence. Eso doesn't follow this common sense rule. I said all.2 -
smacx250✭✭✭✭✭
I disagree, my main sorc runs solo, and needs a strong self heal, which is healing ward. Not allowing healing ward to stack with hardened brings up serious issues with its use as a heal (e.g., what happens if healing is replaced by hardened?). If I could get a healing ward equivalent without the shield, I'd be ok with no stacking. I'm basically giving up an entire weapon slot for just that one skill - that seems a pretty fair tradeoff!
Sorcs need only one Skill in PvE for survival...hardened ward (and crit surge, but it's no shield so not relevant in this discussion). A fix to shieldstacking (or preventing it) wouldn't change anything for PvE-Sorcs.
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Greiver✭✭✭I don't even bother using harness in pvp. Hardened ward is more then enough. But as far as nerfing shield stacking..... NOEdited by Greiver on February 23, 2016 2:37AMPs4 Na Daggerfall
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AJ_1988✭✭✭lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »But it's too strong when you can stack harness with your op blazing shield. Same as when I stack harness with igneous shield on my magicka dk.
Lol at calling blazing shield OP. Yeah if you don't want any magicka to cast it then sure it may do something for 6 seconds. Sun shield and its morphs need reworking. They useless in pvp. A shield based on 15% of a magic users max health. Yay a shield for like 3k0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭I disagree, my main sorc runs solo, and needs a strong self heal, which is healing ward. Not allowing healing ward to stack with hardened brings up serious issues with its use as a heal (e.g., what happens if healing is replaced by hardened?). If I could get a healing ward equivalent without the shield, I'd be ok with no stacking. I'm basically giving up an entire weapon slot for just that one skill - that seems a pretty fair tradeoff!
In that scenario if hardened replaced healing it would only be because you cast hardened before healing expired. Would only require a change in playstyle and some awareness of what ward you had up. Blessing of restoration heals for about 6k base in cyro and it's insta-cast. I now use it instead of healing ward and it's just as effective. As for pve, you trying to say a spammable 24k hardened ward isn't enough?
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FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭themdogesbite wrote: »Shieldstacking should NOT be removed, instead there needs to be a rework on how shields apply whilst already active IMO. There's more classes then sorcs that uses shields you know.. the rest of us arent so damn blessed that one shield is enough, we need to stack them in pvp.
I agree that removing shield stacking is a blanket fix and is probs too extreme given that all classes do it. But there needs to be some drawback to sorcs doing it. If sorcs are blessed by having a strong class shield then what would you call being able to combine 2 more strong shields with that strong class shield? Chosen?
Ideally I would like hardened ward to be a ward that couldn't stack with any other ward. Shields need to be classified in some way more comprehensive than minor/major.PC | EU0 -
AJ_1988✭✭✭I play Templar I get frustrated like everyone else when going up against sorcs, but they are killerable. Shield stacking DOES NOT need to be removed or nerfed. The only thing that needs to happen is damage shields need to be crittable. Effects need to proc on them also ie, the healing effect from sweeps. Shield stacking and burst damage is a trademark of sorcs just like BOL spamming and jabs is of Templars, fear and stealth etc is of NBS etc.
For those saying use shield breaker, why would a magicka based build wearing light armour use a medium stamina set that only procs with light and heavy attacks, maybe if there was a magica version of it but then that will cripple a lot of people's build as they use certain sets to to cover weaknesses, build on strengths etc.1 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭I play Templar I get frustrated like everyone else when going up against sorcs, but they are killerable. Shield stacking DOES NOT need to be removed or nerfed. The only thing that needs to happen is damage shields need to be crittable. Effects need to proc on them also ie, the healing effect from sweeps. Shield stacking and burst damage is a trademark of sorcs just like BOL spamming and jabs is of Templars, fear and stealth etc is of NBS etc.
For those saying use shield breaker, why would a magicka based build wearing light armour use a medium stamina set that only procs with light and heavy attacks, maybe if there was a magica version of it but then that will cripple a lot of people's build as they use certain sets to to cover weaknesses, build on strengths etc.
The issue I have with crittable, stackable shields is that the introduction of shield crits would need to be done with lots of testing. Sorcs would continue to stack 3 large shields and crits would be balanced accordingly. That sounds fine until someone wants to use any of those 3 large shields individually only to find they get one-shot by crits because the ward was balanced around being combined with 2 others. How do you balance an individual shield when the most common use for it is in combination with others?PC | EU1 -
rager82b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭IF Nightblade has to get one of its main defense nerfed down. I don't see why Sorcs can't. We all know it is coming even the developers talking about it.
I want a cast time on it myself. Sorcs would take far more skill to play.1 -
Molag_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Only bad Sorcs shield stack from what I've noticed.
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ajwest927✭✭✭Why us magicka sorcerer have to change our playing style, why don't the QQ just find a better way to counter it, then maybe we stop using it.0 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭rager82b14_ESO wrote: »IF Nightblade has to get one of its main defense nerfed down. I don't see why Sorcs can't. We all know it is coming even the developers talking about it.
I want a cast time on it myself. Sorcs would take far more skill to play.
Indeed. Adding a cast time to any defensive skill would require more skill to play. DKs would take more skill to play if wings had a cast time. Is this necessary? No.PC | EU0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Destruent Yes yes, Sorcerers only need one skill for survival (Hardened Ward). They also only HAVE one skill for survival (Hardened Ward). It's this ridiculously childish attitude brought by you bad butthurt PvPers which will cause this game to absolutely suck for everyone. Have you even played a Magicka Sorcerer? Leave PvP balance solutions to PvP. (Nerf already low Bow DPS in PvEbecause gankers....)
It is one thing to call for a severe bug fix (ex. Toppling Charge). It is another when you pester @Wrobel and other Devs themselves to make changes which will make a class not only weak, but clunky and unfun to play because of this whining.
The magicka variant's survivability for this class is entirely dependant on shields. If a cast time is placed on Hardened Ward, you may as well remove the skill. You recast when your current damage shield is quickly depleted, causing you to be 1-2 shot kills from any group dungeon mob since you stacked Max Magicka instead of Health with the priority of keeping shields up.
I've had the opportunity to see magicka Nightblades and Templars which almost completely mimic my thoery-crafted builds in action. Both have enormous healing/health. What people seem to never understand is that shields do not regenerate. It is easier in most instances to survive burst damage in PvE as a Magicka Sorc, but you must recast your Hardened Ward. This lowers DPS and resources. For Magicka NB, you can spam Funnel Health with Duel Swords, providing very good damge for very low cost AND strong heal to yourelf/allies. Templars have jabs and BoL among others skills.
Same message: Leave PvE alone, rebalance PvP.Edited by Vaoh on February 23, 2016 9:03AM1 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭As a Magicka Sorc I must agree, it is very annoying to "train" through Harness and Hardened. Shieldstacking in PvP is cheap. If you can't burst someone then it is just waste of time. You fight against someone who just survives and waits for backup, because he is weak.
Daedric mines and shieldstacking are cheap in PvP.
P.S. I don't really care, now I just add Endless Fury to support bar and it makes a difference.PC/EU 800 CP.
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olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fighting a shieldstacking sorc as a sorc is dead fricking boring and you end up dying of boredom in the end, all they do is spam hardward and harness magicka...if the sorc is rly bad tho you can drain its stamina, but most of the time the backup arrives
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Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »Why not remove Battle Spirit and then do some balancing? Then, if needed, apply some form of Battle Spirit again.
I think Battle Spirit is BS. It provides a bigger % bonus to glass cannons than it does to non-glass cannons. It accentuates flaws in the system and actually provides more imbalance. Not to mention it nerfs some races while not touching others.
Everyone kept getting one-shot in pvp, thats why they introduced the Battle Spirit.
Do you suggest all the skills, mobs, bosses etc need to be rebalanced in order to remove the Battle Spirit?
The problem of the current Battle Spirit is that they forgot to 1/3 of the equation, they reduced dmg and healing but sustain isnt addressed. If regen would be lowered and/or skill cost would be higher players would need to balance their builds instead of stacking 4k+ weapon dmg and still have 2.4k stam regen, which I have on my stam NB for example.
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Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
✭KramUzibra wrote: »
Oooohhh...so any class should be able to stack shields? Also if any class can stack why are sorcs being singled out?
Yeah any class can stack shields but the class shields of Templars and DK scales to max healt and if i'm not wrong healt is not a modifier for the damage output.
12-13k cristal frag + 7-9k curse +20k shields + streak it sounds a little op to me.
A really good way to Nerf to the ground sorcerers will be to make the class shield scale off max health like the other classes.Edited by Tonnopesce on February 23, 2016 10:21AMSignature1 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »
Yeah any class can stack shields but the class shields of Templars and DK scales to max healt and if i'm not wrong healt is not a modifier for the damage output.
12-13k cristal frag + 7-9k curse +20k shields + streak it sounds a little op to me.
A really good way to Nerf to the ground sorcerers will be to make the class shield scale off max health like the other classes.
IMO sorc has been nerfed enough, shieldstacking is a problem for more then just sorc. Dampen magicka is a huge shield vs magicka dmg, just think if bone shield was the same size, it would be ridiculous.
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Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
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IMO sorc has been nerfed enough, shieldstacking is a problem for more then just sorc. Dampen magicka is a huge shield vs magicka dmg, just think if bone shield was the same size, it would be ridiculous.
I'm not against sorcerers don't get me wrong; a sorcerer cant kill me if i'm in a 1v1 with a player with the same " experience " as me but i cant kill him either.
The real problem with sorcerers is that they are abused by some people, yesterday after mi usual pvp session i've joined my alliance in the IC, and there was a group of 5 sorcerers camping the sewer entrance; they sure where an organized group they sure were good players, but it was impossible for a group of random to kill them , even if we took them down to 20% health they was simple disengaging (streak) recharging and coming back.
Sorcerers have some really good utilities compared to other classes what we need is or a buff to a skill accessible to all the classes or for sorcerers, if they choose to be tanky => no damage , if they choose to do a lot of damage => easy to kill, like everyone else in the game!Signature0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doncellius wrote: »@Destruent Yes yes, Sorcerers only need one skill for survival (Hardened Ward). They also only HAVE one skill for survival (Hardened Ward). It's this ridiculously childish attitude brought by you bad butthurt PvPers which will cause this game to absolutely suck for everyone. Have you even played a Magicka Sorcerer? Leave PvP balance solutions to PvP. (Nerf already low Bow DPS in PvEbecause gankers....)
It is one thing to call for a severe bug fix (ex. Toppling Charge). It is another when you pester @Wrobel and other Devs themselves to make changes which will make a class not only weak, but clunky and unfun to play because of this whining.
The magicka variant's survivability for this class is entirely dependant on shields. If a cast time is placed on Hardened Ward, you may as well remove the skill. You recast when your current damage shield is quickly depleted, causing you to be 1-2 shot kills from any group dungeon mob since you stacked Max Magicka instead of Health with the priority of keeping shields up.
I've had the opportunity to see magicka Nightblades and Templars which almost completely mimic my thoery-crafted builds in action. Both have enormous healing/health. What people seem to never understand is that shields do not regenerate. It is easier in most instances to survive burst damage in PvE as a Magicka Sorc, but you must recast your Hardened Ward. This lowers DPS and resources. For Magicka NB, you can spam Funnel Health with Duel Swords, providing very good damge for very low cost AND strong heal to yourelf/allies. Templars have jabs and BoL among others skills.
Same message: Leave PvE alone, rebalance PvP.
Yes i have a Magicka-sorc, but only V6...before you argue i can't know anything. I did all Dungeons on V16-scale including HM and vMSA on him when he was V2, i also soloed the firs boss in AA. And yes, hardened ward along with critsurge is more than enough to survive, no need to shieldstack in PvE. You don't even have to use Hardened ward in group content...16.8k HP is enough for everything as a sorc.
btw. i thought this topic was about shieldstacking, not hardened ward alone...isn't it?Noobplar0 -
Reznique✭✭✭✭lol
ZOSE PLIS RIMUV SHILDS!
aim a wizard sou plis Zose remove zem. Ez ai sed aim e magishan end i fink shilds ar bed so yu hav tu listin to mii
NAFF SED.
Threads like this lead towards implementation of plague like shield breaker, which just makes the gameplay worse for everyone ( unless, of course you like to win with 1 button ( and thats quite sad))
Edited by Reznique on February 23, 2016 10:53AM2 -
Ryuho✭✭✭✭I agree with my noob friend @olsborg
Besides If u have played from the start as a sorc for sure u should remember when ppls was using only hardened + mutagen + crit surge as a heal source, and evrything was okey! Later when harness recovered insane amount of magicka, ppls started to stack it with hardened, but still cause soft caps, evrything was ok! Removing softcaps made shields insane OP, casue magicka stacking.. Ppls got addicted of hardened + harness combo aka easy mode, cause mentioned cap removal.. Anyway, imo if u are a good sorc still hardened is enough to protect u, spammable stronk shield, combo that with blessing of resto and u can survive a lot. But ofc we sorcs are famous of our 1 vs 10 fights, so we need millions shields to make it work but seriously its almost impossible now..
Allow one shield of each kind to be active - like harness + bone shield (magicka dmg shield + phys dmg shield). .
Healing ward/hardened/blazing/igneuos if u are using any of those u shouldnt be allowed to cast any other shields casue they protect u from phys and magick dmg..
But ofc such implementation would need some shields adjustment.
Healing ward - make it work 20s, shield strength based on missing hp, heals after 4s
Hardened - increase slightly it size, hardened is still great protection
Blazing/Igneus - those shields shouldnt be affected by shield battlespirit nerf, and blazing should work 20s
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olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »
I'm not against sorcerers don't get me wrong; a sorcerer cant kill me if i'm in a 1v1 with a player with the same " experience " as me but i cant kill him either.
The real problem with sorcerers is that they are abused by some people, yesterday after mi usual pvp session i've joined my alliance in the IC, and there was a group of 5 sorcerers camping the sewer entrance; they sure where an organized group they sure were good players, but it was impossible for a group of random to kill them , even if we took them down to 20% health they was simple disengaging (streak) recharging and coming back.
Sorcerers have some really good utilities compared to other classes what we need is or a buff to a skill accessible to all the classes or for sorcerers, if they choose to be tanky => no damage , if they choose to do a lot of damage => easy to kill, like everyone else in the game!
I only meant that if hardened ward and boneshield(if it was a 12k shield) was stackable, it would be ridiculous, this is what people who use magicka to do dmg needs to deal with when fighting someone using hardward and dampen magicka atm.
Shieldstack is a global problem, but its most noticeable on sorc because they have a big class shield. Their class shield should be strong, its basicly their only defence. But stacking other shields behind it is OP and should be removed.
@OLIVI3R , yea shieldbreaker is a *** set that produces idiot gameplay of spamming light attack on people instead of using your actual build and skills, its the only counter to shields, but imo it should deal dmg to the actual shield.
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corrosivechains✭✭✭✭✭
you are aware there is no single abilty that can be locked out of right?
you are aware that you can CC lock a NB in going into stealth?
how you you like Mr Sorc if we could lock you out using heals/shields with a single abilty for 5 seconds?
but i'm fine with the cloak nerf, the mayor overpowered issue(s) NB have are still there. and guess what cloak wasn't one of them
and that very same can be applied to a sorc who shield stacks, and I've already explained how I do so as a DK tank focus. You wanna QQ about being locked out of stealth, you aren't going to get any sympathy here, because it was stealth gankers who whined about "unkillable" tank builds which got us the stam regen nerf while blocking, and while yeah the regen should have been reduced when blocking, but hey, we got completely locked out of our playstyle...so suck it up buttercup and lrn2play"Could you post me a link to the official MMO rule book please." - clayandaudrey_ESO0
