Please vote on this one the other was submitted by accident before I could add the 3rd option

they need to come back tbh the stat stacking is terrible, tho they need to be higher than the old ones, those were stupidly easy to reach

I'd quit if they did.

I think the problem isn't so much that you don't have diminishing marginal returns, so much as there are not really any benefits to running with more health, or with hybrid stats.

The game has an action economy, your stats need to make each action you take to be more effective in some way, or they are a waste.

Let's take an ability like hardened ward.
I'm not saying it shouldn't scale linearly off magika, that should stay.
However, what if it was multiplied by some fraction of your health pool?
In that case, balancing health and magika would make the ability more effective than stacking one or the other.

I think more abilities could benefit from secondary effects - maybe flame whip still scales in damage based on magika, but drains the targets stamina in proportion to your stam pool.


Or maybe make an ability that costs magika, but deals 5% of your current health pool in damage in addition to linear scaling on magika?


I agree, the current stack one stat meta is boring, but reverting to softcaps isn't the way to go.

Well I remember enjoying the game a LOT more with softcaps, the way I was set up I could reach res and ar double past the soft cap (lets say my lvl soft cap for it was at 1500, i could manage boosting up to 3000). I have no trouble admitting I just didnt move on with the game, I haven't had nearly as much time to play as before 1.6 (still opinions right?)

- overall I feel tanking was a LOT easier. Havent been able to properly tank since - I'm probably doing it wrong - but to me tanking isnt using burst abilities to regen insane amounts of magicka/hp and stam - tanking is not taking that much dmg at the expense of dps and/or heals

Problems for me with balancing.
No tank / heal / dps isolation so people can excel in more than 1 by only stacking 1 resource.
Heal on damage and such skills are prime examples of skills that allow players to bypass role isolation.
Tanking abilities that rely on magicka rather than health so that tanking and DPS can be combined.
Healing abilities that scale off magicka/stamina

For me it will never be possible to isolate tank/dps/heal (and balance them) as long as they share resources.
Hence:

Stamina = stamina dps only
Magicka= magicka dps only
health = tanking only
stamina/magicka/health equality = healing only.

This means you can be stamina dps....but crap heal/tank
This means you can be magicka dps....but crap heal/tank
This means you can be health tank...but crap dps/heal
This means you can be hybrid healer...with mediochre dps/tank

You can of course mix and match by being somewhere between mitigation and damage extremes.

Also...
ZOS doesn't have to go 0% - 100% and doesn't anyway.
You still get magicak/stamina with 0 points invested to stop people gimping themselves and being OP.
There is nothing wrong with having a range limit of 10000-25000
Then using attribute points as a % of those limits.
Here there is a 10,000 base and only 15,000 player adjustable.....

eg. 40 stam / 10 health / 12 magicka
(40 / (40+10+12) * (15000)) + 10000 = 19677
(10 / (40+10+12) * (15000)) + 10000 = 12419
(12 / (40+10+12) * (15000)) + 10000 = 12903
Total = 45000

eg. 30 stam / 30 health / 2 magicka
(30 / (30+30+02) * (15000)) + 10000 = 17258
(30 / (30+30+02) * (15000)) + 10000 = 17258
(02 / (30+30+02) * (15000)) + 10000 = 10483
Total = 45000

eg. 62 stam / 0 health / 0 magicka
(62 / (62+00+00) * (15000)) + 10000 = 25000
(00 / (62+00+00) * (15000)) + 10000 = 10000
(00 / (62+00+00) * (15000)) + 10000 = 10000
Total = 45000

...doesn't mean you cant make only 5000 player adjustable + 13,333 base to reduce the effects of extreme builds.

eg. 62 stam / 0 health / 0 magicka
(62 / (62+00+00) * (5000)) + 13333 = 18333
(00 / (62+00+00) * (5000)) + 13333 = 13333
(00 / (62+00+00) * (5000)) + 13333 = 13333
Total = 45000


[EDIT ..maths is hard lol]

90% from Templars and DKs want soft caps back and 90% from Sorcs and NBs do not want them back.

The problem with the old softcaps is they were practically hardcaps. You hit the ceiling and suddenly it was 50% less of whatever you added past that amount. They were also too low, with certain class/race combos hitting softcap with practically no investment.

Proper soft caps have a smooth and gradual line that makes it far less obvious when you should or shouldn't move off of a stat and on to another. Proper softcaps allow for diversity while helping to eliminate balance issues like one-shot invisible stealth assassins that ruin peoples day.

I also believe that the removal of softcaps led directly to the nerf of Bolt Escape, blocking and roll dodge, with their "more casts cost more" and "no more regeneration while blocking".

Softcaps should come back. However it should be higher than it was before.

I think they should properly balance the stats we have so they are all equally useful. Then there will be no need for soft caps.

Basically what jrkhan said.

Spearshard wrote: »

Maybe not soft caps exactly the way they were before, but a reasonable cap to spell/weapon power to curb the meta of stacking dmg and penetration. Would be nice to be able to look at different sets and thing, "that would be fun" and not be disappointed that you can't because you would fall behind.

What meta of damage+penetration? I'm running my Sorc on a dmg+crit build. There's much more diversity now than when we had soft caps. Maybe some of it comes from better itemisation (IC/WGT/ICP/Wrothgar sets) but I'm sceptical of the benefits of soft caps.

Having had played through soft caps definitely prefer it without. Everything felt much the same with soft caps, very little variety. At least now it feels VERY different when I switch from my stam NB or sorc to my magic Templar or DK and results in different play styles. With soft caps what worked for one build worked for all.....

Well, seeing as my previous response on the other thread got deleted, I'll write a summary of it here.

My opinion on the matter is known, as evidenced by that thread that was linked in the OP.

Still, a softer version of softcaps should be reinstated, a 25% DR should be used instead of the old 50%. This would allow for specialisation while still keeping limits on character power.

Way more variety of builds when you have the option to stack a certain value... I would much rather not go back to everyone's character sheet having nothing but orange numbers...

For those of you who weren't here for softcaps, the orange numbers denoted "overcharged" or softcapped values and every competent player had pretty much every stat in the orange. Very diverse.

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.