Should softcaps be added back?

Draxys

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Aunatar

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Add them back, but make them actually "soft", let's have a compromise, so people can still min/max in some way.

Jura23

Do not add softcaps back

Draxys wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Yeah, but I think smaller groups should be able to compete because of their better skill, not because more ultimates.

But what I think they could do is expand the list of actions that generates ultimates, for everybody. And adjust the gains from actions that are already in place.

Draxys

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Yeah, but I think smaller groups should be able to compete because of their better skill, not because more ultimates.

But what I think they could do is expand the list of actions that generates ultimates, for everybody. And adjust the gains from actions that are already in place.

That is also true, but in the current state of the game, it often does not matter at all how skilled your groups players are.

Septimus_Magna

Do not add softcaps back

I dont want any softcaps tbh, just reduce sustain to a point where players actaually have to balance sustain and dmg.

Right now its too easy to get sustain from racials, mundus and CPs which allows players to spec for dmg and still have decent sustain.

DeanTheCat

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Yeah, but I think smaller groups should be able to compete because of their better skill, not because more ultimates.

But what I think they could do is expand the list of actions that generates ultimates, for everybody. And adjust the gains from actions that are already in place.

What about gaining ultimate when you perform specific actions (Blocking, dodging, CC, force-miss, purging, buffing allies, healing and damage but no crits) but losing ultimate when you misplay, like getting hit by a bashable attack, failing to block white sparks and standing in red for 5+ seconds?

This will allow good players to gain ultimate for performing good combat decisions and counters while ensuring that bad gameplay will be punished with ultimate loss to dissuade people from poor play. A good player will be able this way to consistently unleash more ultimates then a poor player, while keeping the previous discrepancies between Magicka vs Stamina back in the old ultimate system (Magicka players basically gained ulti at 10x the rate of Stamina players). Maintain the current Major Heroism buff to ensure that all players eventually will be able to unleash an ultimate.

Flameheart

Do not add softcaps back

Nope. Reasons already mentioned by posters above.

I might agree that Zenimax should bring some more balance to the game skillwise, but soft caps is not the answer. I love this game BECAUSE of its freedom concerning roles and builds. If I want to pigeonhole myself in a strict pattern, I could play every other MMO out there and just swap "Jedi Knight Marauder" by "Dualwield Warrior".

All those ineffective balancing suggestions which want to take my fun for this game for therorycrafting, experimenting and finding builds are in truth another attempt to introduce socialism for PvP at the cost of spoiling my fun in PvE.

Jar_Ek

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Soft caps as in smoothed diminishing returns that are tied to cp total (ie higher cp total means a later start to the diminishing returns) to reduce the gap between hybrids and health builds vs max resource builds.

However if zos made hybrids builds competitiveand health builds competitive, then that would be fine too.

Basically make hybrids and health builds viable!! Also I suspect that the removal of soft caps has caused the cost multipliers on bolt escape and dodge roll, as well as the block stamina nerf... and I dislike those changes intensely.

Whitebrad25

Do not add softcaps back

I vote no, for sure....Not a fan of those soft caps....It is truly a Band-Aid for players to help bring marginal builds toward the level that those who spent million(s) to create have.

I enjoy the aspect where people can max certain areas of their character and focus certain play styles...with soft caps, there is no playing the way you want. Soft caps force players not into certain builds, but champion points, morphs/abilities, etc.


I would thoroughly enjoy people to stop protesting to nerf people's builds. There are several examples of every class where players are incredibly effective and each class must have gives and takes....a soft cap (at the very least as low as many of them were), would be detrimental to the game play experience and the point of even trying to obtain some of the content that is BiS or the set pieces that are near the top of the line...

I want to enjoy the fruits of my hours and HOURS of labor for the gear I have.

Rune_Relic

Do not add softcaps back

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Yeah, but I think smaller groups should be able to compete because of their better skill, not because more ultimates.

But what I think they could do is expand the list of actions that generates ultimates, for everybody. And adjust the gains from actions that are already in place.

What about gaining ultimate when you perform specific actions (Blocking, dodging, CC, force-miss, purging, buffing allies, healing and damage but no crits) but losing ultimate when you misplay, like getting hit by a bashable attack, failing to block white sparks and standing in red for 5+ seconds?

This will allow good players to gain ultimate for performing good combat decisions and counters while ensuring that bad gameplay will be punished with ultimate loss to dissuade people from poor play. A good player will be able this way to consistently unleash more ultimates then a poor player, while keeping the previous discrepancies between Magicka vs Stamina back in the old ultimate system (Magicka players basically gained ulti at 10x the rate of Stamina players). Maintain the current Major Heroism buff to ensure that all players eventually will be able to unleash an ultimate.

So what if that zerg ball carpet bombs a massive area so that the only thing you can do is dodgeroll out of one red circle straight into another ?
The zerg ball gets all the ultimate and you get none.

In principal I agree in good play should win.
But using rewards and penalties the more extreme builds become power wise rather than skill wise
If you are truly a more skilful player you will beat your opponent anyway without any other help required.
You don't need more power if you are better than your opponent anyway.

The only argument for ultimate is in outnumbered situation or 1vX.
People cant deal with being outnumbered so demand a godmode button so they don't have to die.
Giving people god mode buttons just creates a power creep situation where some classes synergise better than others.
DKs being a prime example back in the day.

The only way to prevent power creep is to not give people more power.
The only option left in 1vX is to reduce effectiveness by group size.

That's the only way I see it anyway.

Personofsecrets

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Soft caps on player power have essentially already been added back to PVP via the battle spirit debuff

DeanTheCat

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Rune_Relic wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Yeah, but I think smaller groups should be able to compete because of their better skill, not because more ultimates.

But what I think they could do is expand the list of actions that generates ultimates, for everybody. And adjust the gains from actions that are already in place.

What about gaining ultimate when you perform specific actions (Blocking, dodging, CC, force-miss, purging, buffing allies, healing and damage but no crits) but losing ultimate when you misplay, like getting hit by a bashable attack, failing to block white sparks and standing in red for 5+ seconds?

This will allow good players to gain ultimate for performing good combat decisions and counters while ensuring that bad gameplay will be punished with ultimate loss to dissuade people from poor play. A good player will be able this way to consistently unleash more ultimates then a poor player, while keeping the previous discrepancies between Magicka vs Stamina back in the old ultimate system (Magicka players basically gained ulti at 10x the rate of Stamina players). Maintain the current Major Heroism buff to ensure that all players eventually will be able to unleash an ultimate.

So what if that zerg ball carpet bombs a massive area so that the only thing you can do is dodgeroll out of one red circle straight into another ?
The zerg ball gets all the ultimate and you get none.

In principal I agree in good play should win.
But using rewards and penalties the more extreme builds become power wise rather than skill wise
If you are truly a more skilful player you will beat your opponent anyway without any other help required.
You don't need more power if you are better than your opponent anyway.

The only argument for ultimate is in outnumbered situation or 1vX.
People cant deal with being outnumbered so demand a godmode button so they don't have to die.
Giving people god mode buttons just creates a power creep situation where some classes synergise better than others.
DKs being a prime example back in the day.

The only way to prevent power creep is to not give people more power.
The only option left in 1vX is to reduce effectiveness by group size.

That's the only way I see it anyway.

@Rune_Relic

Touche.

Didn't think about that. I concede

Rune_Relic

Do not add softcaps back

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Yeah, but I think smaller groups should be able to compete because of their better skill, not because more ultimates.

But what I think they could do is expand the list of actions that generates ultimates, for everybody. And adjust the gains from actions that are already in place.

What about gaining ultimate when you perform specific actions (Blocking, dodging, CC, force-miss, purging, buffing allies, healing and damage but no crits) but losing ultimate when you misplay, like getting hit by a bashable attack, failing to block white sparks and standing in red for 5+ seconds?

This will allow good players to gain ultimate for performing good combat decisions and counters while ensuring that bad gameplay will be punished with ultimate loss to dissuade people from poor play. A good player will be able this way to consistently unleash more ultimates then a poor player, while keeping the previous discrepancies between Magicka vs Stamina back in the old ultimate system (Magicka players basically gained ulti at 10x the rate of Stamina players). Maintain the current Major Heroism buff to ensure that all players eventually will be able to unleash an ultimate.

So what if that zerg ball carpet bombs a massive area so that the only thing you can do is dodgeroll out of one red circle straight into another ?
The zerg ball gets all the ultimate and you get none.

In principal I agree in good play should win.
But using rewards and penalties the more extreme builds become power wise rather than skill wise
If you are truly a more skilful player you will beat your opponent anyway without any other help required.
You don't need more power if you are better than your opponent anyway.

The only argument for ultimate is in outnumbered situation or 1vX.
People cant deal with being outnumbered so demand a godmode button so they don't have to die.
Giving people god mode buttons just creates a power creep situation where some classes synergise better than others.
DKs being a prime example back in the day.

The only way to prevent power creep is to not give people more power.
The only option left in 1vX is to reduce effectiveness by group size.

That's the only way I see it anyway.

@Rune_Relic

Touche.

Didn't think about that. I concede

Damn it man ! You're not supposed to concede ever...or at least 20 pages later.
hehe!

Hell I love ultimate.....who doesn't get moist nuking stuff.
I just don't see how the results were good for the game in the end.

willymchilybily

Do not add softcaps back

i think softcaps is a blanket fix to balance by limiting maximums, and to re-introduce them with the champion system and the gear sets now available would be disastrous.

we are moving away from that model. There will need to be tweaks to do so, and more buffs/nerfs (and whining) to come,, but i think the final destination we will reach will be far superior to what was left behind.

kevlarto_ESO

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Why do think we get crazy damage numbers, and why were sorcs able to bolt travel, nightblades able to roll to the moon and back, because of no soft caps, almost every game on the market uses them and for a reason, balance, balance, balance.

Junkogen

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Soft caps were horrible and made it difficult to create "edge case" builds that pushed the limits of theorycrafting. They were also hell on solo players who didn't have the benefit of group synergies to help them manage resources.

Other evils of soft caps included:

1) Expensive tri-stat potions were REQUIRED to complete some content. Hope you enjoy picking flowers in Coldharbour for six hours a day, because that's what you'll be doing if soft caps come back!

2) Spell Symmetry, one of the dumbest spells in the game, was actually FOTM standard for mages for a long time because of magicka management issues due to - you guessed it - soft caps. Enjoy using a spell that could double as a suicide pill if they bring back soft caps!

I'm an Argonian, ZOS already seems to expect us to pick flowers all day to utilize our passive.

RAGUNAnoOne

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Junkogen wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Soft caps were horrible and made it difficult to create "edge case" builds that pushed the limits of theorycrafting. They were also hell on solo players who didn't have the benefit of group synergies to help them manage resources.

Other evils of soft caps included:

1) Expensive tri-stat potions were REQUIRED to complete some content. Hope you enjoy picking flowers in Coldharbour for six hours a day, because that's what you'll be doing if soft caps come back!

2) Spell Symmetry, one of the dumbest spells in the game, was actually FOTM standard for mages for a long time because of magicka management issues due to - you guessed it - soft caps. Enjoy using a spell that could double as a suicide pill if they bring back soft caps!

I'm an Argonian, ZOS already seems to expect us to pick flowers all day to utilize our passive.

LOL same here and use healing spells despite the fact they only work better on us.

DeanTheCat

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Rune_Relic wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Yeah, but I think smaller groups should be able to compete because of their better skill, not because more ultimates.

But what I think they could do is expand the list of actions that generates ultimates, for everybody. And adjust the gains from actions that are already in place.

What about gaining ultimate when you perform specific actions (Blocking, dodging, CC, force-miss, purging, buffing allies, healing and damage but no crits) but losing ultimate when you misplay, like getting hit by a bashable attack, failing to block white sparks and standing in red for 5+ seconds?

This will allow good players to gain ultimate for performing good combat decisions and counters while ensuring that bad gameplay will be punished with ultimate loss to dissuade people from poor play. A good player will be able this way to consistently unleash more ultimates then a poor player, while keeping the previous discrepancies between Magicka vs Stamina back in the old ultimate system (Magicka players basically gained ulti at 10x the rate of Stamina players). Maintain the current Major Heroism buff to ensure that all players eventually will be able to unleash an ultimate.

So what if that zerg ball carpet bombs a massive area so that the only thing you can do is dodgeroll out of one red circle straight into another ?
The zerg ball gets all the ultimate and you get none.

In principal I agree in good play should win.
But using rewards and penalties the more extreme builds become power wise rather than skill wise
If you are truly a more skilful player you will beat your opponent anyway without any other help required.
You don't need more power if you are better than your opponent anyway.

The only argument for ultimate is in outnumbered situation or 1vX.
People cant deal with being outnumbered so demand a godmode button so they don't have to die.
Giving people god mode buttons just creates a power creep situation where some classes synergise better than others.
DKs being a prime example back in the day.

The only way to prevent power creep is to not give people more power.
The only option left in 1vX is to reduce effectiveness by group size.

That's the only way I see it anyway.

@Rune_Relic

Touche.

Didn't think about that. I concede

Damn it man ! You're not supposed to concede ever...or at least 20 pages later.
hehe!

Hell I love ultimate.....who doesn't get moist nuking stuff.
I just don't see how the results were good for the game in the end.

I'm not the kind who will just argue for the sake of arguing. I know when I have lost. And in this case, it's a matter of not thinking a suggestion through before posting.

Junkogen

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Soft caps were horrible and made it difficult to create "edge case" builds that pushed the limits of theorycrafting. They were also hell on solo players who didn't have the benefit of group synergies to help them manage resources.

Other evils of soft caps included:

1) Expensive tri-stat potions were REQUIRED to complete some content. Hope you enjoy picking flowers in Coldharbour for six hours a day, because that's what you'll be doing if soft caps come back!

2) Spell Symmetry, one of the dumbest spells in the game, was actually FOTM standard for mages for a long time because of magicka management issues due to - you guessed it - soft caps. Enjoy using a spell that could double as a suicide pill if they bring back soft caps!

I'm an Argonian, ZOS already seems to expect us to pick flowers all day to utilize our passive.

LOL same here and use healing spells despite the fact they only work better on us.

Their passives are so incredibly bad it makes me wonder what the developers are thinking. I honestly think that they just don't care. They'd rather spend their time on moneymakers like DLC and Crown Store than redesign passives that are actually fair and balanced. Hence, Argonians will always be the last choice for any playstyle.

RAGUNAnoOne

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Junkogen wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Soft caps were horrible and made it difficult to create "edge case" builds that pushed the limits of theorycrafting. They were also hell on solo players who didn't have the benefit of group synergies to help them manage resources.

Other evils of soft caps included:

1) Expensive tri-stat potions were REQUIRED to complete some content. Hope you enjoy picking flowers in Coldharbour for six hours a day, because that's what you'll be doing if soft caps come back!

2) Spell Symmetry, one of the dumbest spells in the game, was actually FOTM standard for mages for a long time because of magicka management issues due to - you guessed it - soft caps. Enjoy using a spell that could double as a suicide pill if they bring back soft caps!

I'm an Argonian, ZOS already seems to expect us to pick flowers all day to utilize our passive.

LOL same here and use healing spells despite the fact they only work better on us.

Their passives are so incredibly bad it makes me wonder what the developers are thinking. I honestly think that they just don't care. They'd rather spend their time on moneymakers like DLC and Crown Store than redesign passives that are actually fair and balanced. Hence, Argonians will always be the last choice for any playstyle.

They want argonians to constantly be whipped to death by DK slavers that is what they are thinking. NPC practically spam that move on me...

Jura23

Do not add softcaps back

Junkogen wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Soft caps were horrible and made it difficult to create "edge case" builds that pushed the limits of theorycrafting. They were also hell on solo players who didn't have the benefit of group synergies to help them manage resources.

Other evils of soft caps included:

1) Expensive tri-stat potions were REQUIRED to complete some content. Hope you enjoy picking flowers in Coldharbour for six hours a day, because that's what you'll be doing if soft caps come back!

2) Spell Symmetry, one of the dumbest spells in the game, was actually FOTM standard for mages for a long time because of magicka management issues due to - you guessed it - soft caps. Enjoy using a spell that could double as a suicide pill if they bring back soft caps!

I'm an Argonian, ZOS already seems to expect us to pick flowers all day to utilize our passive.

LOL same here and use healing spells despite the fact they only work better on us.

Their passives are so incredibly bad it makes me wonder what the developers are thinking. I honestly think that they just don't care. They'd rather spend their time on moneymakers like DLC and Crown Store than redesign passives that are actually fair and balanced. Hence, Argonians will always be the last choice for any playstyle.

You have tails. Others don't (except Khajiit).

SirCritical

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

Let us create hybrid builds again, and replace some of the 2-4 plain attribute-based set bonuses with other, interesting and useful effects.

Zerok

Add softcaps to PvP zones only

I understand the need for softcaps in PvP. However, why is there a need for it in PvE?

Can someone explain this to me?

dodgehopper_ESO

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Soft caps as in smoothed diminishing returns that are tied to cp total (ie higher cp total means a later start to the diminishing returns) to reduce the gap between hybrids and health builds vs max resource builds.

However if zos made hybrids builds competitiveand health builds competitive, then that would be fine too.

Basically make hybrids and health builds viable!! Also I suspect that the removal of soft caps has caused the cost multipliers on bolt escape and dodge roll, as well as the block stamina nerf... and I dislike those changes intensely.

I concur. As someone who has tanked (and healed) with every single class I really don't like the bolt/dodge/block nerfs. Blocking in particularly I find really annoying, because I now find it more risky to block than not most times. Throw things like major lag in cyrodiil and they've basically killed blocking, which has plenty of counters already (Fear being one of the nastiest). I can't even imagine what Block + Guard would look like, who has that much stamina?

dodgehopper_ESO

Rune_Relic wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Yeah, but I think smaller groups should be able to compete because of their better skill, not because more ultimates.

But what I think they could do is expand the list of actions that generates ultimates, for everybody. And adjust the gains from actions that are already in place.

What about gaining ultimate when you perform specific actions (Blocking, dodging, CC, force-miss, purging, buffing allies, healing and damage but no crits) but losing ultimate when you misplay, like getting hit by a bashable attack, failing to block white sparks and standing in red for 5+ seconds?

This will allow good players to gain ultimate for performing good combat decisions and counters while ensuring that bad gameplay will be punished with ultimate loss to dissuade people from poor play. A good player will be able this way to consistently unleash more ultimates then a poor player, while keeping the previous discrepancies between Magicka vs Stamina back in the old ultimate system (Magicka players basically gained ulti at 10x the rate of Stamina players). Maintain the current Major Heroism buff to ensure that all players eventually will be able to unleash an ultimate.

So what if that zerg ball carpet bombs a massive area so that the only thing you can do is dodgeroll out of one red circle straight into another ?
The zerg ball gets all the ultimate and you get none.

In principal I agree in good play should win.
But using rewards and penalties the more extreme builds become power wise rather than skill wise
If you are truly a more skilful player you will beat your opponent anyway without any other help required.
You don't need more power if you are better than your opponent anyway.

The only argument for ultimate is in outnumbered situation or 1vX.
People cant deal with being outnumbered so demand a godmode button so they don't have to die.
Giving people god mode buttons just creates a power creep situation where some classes synergise better than others.
DKs being a prime example back in the day.

The only way to prevent power creep is to not give people more power.
The only option left in 1vX is to reduce effectiveness by group size.

That's the only way I see it anyway.

All things being equal (quality of strategy, skill/experience of players/good communication) I think the team with more players should win. Its a nice warm fuzzy feeling to say you beat 20 other guys, but it should not be because of crappy handicap systems or because some classes are just better than others. I don't have a problem losing to a smaller party if we were outplayed, good on them, but I don't really understand how people do not understand the advantage that should exist if one side has more players. I'm sorry but that's real life, and sometimes real life is tough. Conversely, I'm a proponent of things most people would not like: Friendly Fire, No Aoe Caps, Player Collision, etc. I already know a lot of what I want wouldn't happen because their servers can't handle it, and partly because MMO's culturally have a problem with friendly fire. I do think it would mean that aoe skills would be less favorable in pvp when you know for a fact your impulse/steel tornado could be as detrimental to the team as theirs. It would change the entire dynamic of team play if aoe's were actually tactical in nature (Like they would be in real life). If I drop a wall of elements, caltrops, etc down the question is simply why am I able to walk through all those spikes comfortably and you aren't? Because I dropped it? Well that's still fire burning on the ground and spikes poking up from it. Plenty of shooters have friendly fire, and I played shooters long before I played MMORPG's, so that's probably why I feel the way I do, but I suggest that pvp could be a lot more balanced if MMO's copied some Shooter mechanics in their games.

dodgehopper_ESO

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Soft caps were horrible and made it difficult to create "edge case" builds that pushed the limits of theorycrafting. They were also hell on solo players who didn't have the benefit of group synergies to help them manage resources.

Other evils of soft caps included:

1) Expensive tri-stat potions were REQUIRED to complete some content. Hope you enjoy picking flowers in Coldharbour for six hours a day, because that's what you'll be doing if soft caps come back!

2) Spell Symmetry, one of the dumbest spells in the game, was actually FOTM standard for mages for a long time because of magicka management issues due to - you guessed it - soft caps. Enjoy using a spell that could double as a suicide pill if they bring back soft caps!

I'm an Argonian, ZOS already seems to expect us to pick flowers all day to utilize our passive.

LOL same here and use healing spells despite the fact they only work better on us.

The sad truth is that the battle spirit debuffs to healing also directly effect the benefit of Argonian healing received, but do not directly effect other traits like Nord damage resistance or Redguard Adrenaline Rush or Bosmer Stamina Regen. I'm not sure if anyone has ever mentioned that, but I don't even find the Argonian healing received boost all that beneficial even when I'm in PVE land, at least not more so than any other character without it.

Rune_Relic

Do not add softcaps back

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

DeanTheCat wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

This game desperately needs it. And dynamic ultimate that is non crit based like before.

I didn't play back then, but I don't understand the request after dynamic ultimate. I think the ultimate is filling quite fast in this game, its not like it takes half hour to charge it. If the dynamic was in place, it would be just too fast in my opinion.

Speed of gaining ultimate isn't the issue, rewarding good combat is. Part of the reason pvp has swung heavily in favor of numbers win is because of the removal of dynamic ultimate. It allowed smaller groups to compete with larger ones due to having more ultimates.

Yeah, but I think smaller groups should be able to compete because of their better skill, not because more ultimates.

But what I think they could do is expand the list of actions that generates ultimates, for everybody. And adjust the gains from actions that are already in place.

What about gaining ultimate when you perform specific actions (Blocking, dodging, CC, force-miss, purging, buffing allies, healing and damage but no crits) but losing ultimate when you misplay, like getting hit by a bashable attack, failing to block white sparks and standing in red for 5+ seconds?

This will allow good players to gain ultimate for performing good combat decisions and counters while ensuring that bad gameplay will be punished with ultimate loss to dissuade people from poor play. A good player will be able this way to consistently unleash more ultimates then a poor player, while keeping the previous discrepancies between Magicka vs Stamina back in the old ultimate system (Magicka players basically gained ulti at 10x the rate of Stamina players). Maintain the current Major Heroism buff to ensure that all players eventually will be able to unleash an ultimate.

So what if that zerg ball carpet bombs a massive area so that the only thing you can do is dodgeroll out of one red circle straight into another ?
The zerg ball gets all the ultimate and you get none.

In principal I agree in good play should win.
But using rewards and penalties the more extreme builds become power wise rather than skill wise
If you are truly a more skilful player you will beat your opponent anyway without any other help required.
You don't need more power if you are better than your opponent anyway.

The only argument for ultimate is in outnumbered situation or 1vX.
People cant deal with being outnumbered so demand a godmode button so they don't have to die.
Giving people god mode buttons just creates a power creep situation where some classes synergise better than others.
DKs being a prime example back in the day.

The only way to prevent power creep is to not give people more power.
The only option left in 1vX is to reduce effectiveness by group size.

That's the only way I see it anyway.

All things being equal (quality of strategy, skill/experience of players/good communication) I think the team with more players should win. Its a nice warm fuzzy feeling to say you beat 20 other guys, but it should not be because of crappy handicap systems or because some classes are just better than others. I don't have a problem losing to a smaller party if we were outplayed, good on them, but I don't really understand how people do not understand the advantage that should exist if one side has more players. I'm sorry but that's real life, and sometimes real life is tough. Conversely, I'm a proponent of things most people would not like: Friendly Fire, No Aoe Caps, Player Collision, etc. I already know a lot of what I want wouldn't happen because their servers can't handle it, and partly because MMO's culturally have a problem with friendly fire. I do think it would mean that aoe skills would be less favorable in pvp when you know for a fact your impulse/steel tornado could be as detrimental to the team as theirs. It would change the entire dynamic of team play if aoe's were actually tactical in nature (Like they would be in real life). If I drop a wall of elements, caltrops, etc down the question is simply why am I able to walk through all those spikes comfortably and you aren't? Because I dropped it? Well that's still fire burning on the ground and spikes poking up from it. Plenty of shooters have friendly fire, and I played shooters long before I played MMORPG's, so that's probably why I feel the way I do, but I suggest that pvp could be a lot more balanced if MMO's copied some Shooter mechanics in their games.

I wouldn't have a problem with friendly fire except for ...troll traitor players griefing at the most opportune moment.
ZOS are removing the traitor barriers.
Same reason people didnt want CD...not just physics load....but troll griefing in pinch points.
The trolling and griefing will be real next patch.

cavakthestampede

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

jrkhan wrote: »

I think the problem isn't so much that you don't have diminishing marginal returns, so much as there are not really any benefits to running with more health, or with hybrid stats.

The game has an action economy, your stats need to make each action you take to be more effective in some way, or they are a waste.

Let's take an ability like hardened ward.
I'm not saying it shouldn't scale linearly off magika, that should stay.
However, what if it was multiplied by some fraction of your health pool?
In that case, balancing health and magika would make the ability more effective than stacking one or the other.

I think more abilities could benefit from secondary effects - maybe flame whip still scales in damage based on magika, but drains the targets stamina in proportion to your stam pool.


Or maybe make an ability that costs magika, but deals 5% of your current health pool in damage in addition to linear scaling on magika?


I agree, the current stack one stat meta is boring, but reverting to softcaps isn't the way to go.

This is a great and interesting idea. I personally would love the ability to build hybrid classes, or switch them to a pure later. A nightblade that can deal good magic damage, but still make reasonable use of a DW ability since im using two swords to max magicka anyway.

Or a templar mage that can use a bow for light attacks instead of a staff. Having dual contributive stats would help with this, with perhaps a bonus for leveraging two.

Wolfchild07

Do not add softcaps back

Mag/stam pools should not affect the amount of damage you do, unless it's diminishing returns like with CP's. Bigger pools should just mean you can cast more times. You can get more damage from gear/CP's.

mousekime111rwb17_ESO

Add softcaps to the whole game (and rebalance content to match)

This is a pretty tight vote, but on a whole I really think bringing back soft caps is a fantastic idea as currently some stats are so ridiculously more valuable than others it's near game breaking (I'm looking at you weapon/spell damage and magicka/stamina regen). I figure that it would add a lot more variety to build paths and somewhat address other issues (10k+damage wrecking blows and frags) maybe even slow down PVE content for the elite.