spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

I agree Cyrodiil needs more small man objectives. Fighting for town ownership would be hella fun. I don't know how the PVP team gets away with not changing the map/objectives for over a year, and the PVE IC grind with literally zero PVP objectives doesn't count.

WaTeR-aBuSeR wrote: »

Want small scale go to IC thats what its for.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

WaTeR-aBuSeR wrote: »

Want small scale go to IC thats what its for.

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markgd88nrb18_ESO wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Worrisome b/c fengrush is about the only one that said anything worthwhile, a couple of the guys said several incorrect things about the game. Also the fact that it's a podcast with 4 1vXer's, they don't pve or alliance war pvp is kind of odd - someone asked at one point about a pve perspective and sypher says "we'll talk about it b/c we need gear from it" - that's not pve representation. Essentially, not to take anything away from dueling, but no real part of playing the game is represented in the podcast.

Yeah, because 1 player taking on X players doesn't help at all, especially not during sieges holding said X players back on a breach...

As for including PvE stuff, here's the title for you to read again "PvP Podcast @7PM CST tonight".

PvE? THIS. IS. CYRODDIIIIIIILLL!

Darnathian wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

GvG open field combat is some of the best combat I've ever been a part of. Ball groups require a lot more coordination and skill than most of the keyboard warriors and small man groups think, and it's too bad that many can't appreciate the thought and effort that goes into strategic play like that.

Cyrodiil is like a giant chess game when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning. Sure people can gank and run around for days looking for enemies to pick off, but just look at the objectives and map size and it should be crystal clear what the intentions of PVP in this game was to be.

It takes thought by the leader of that grp and perfect robot execution of everyone else. WOW what an achievement. It´s like working assembly line. Are people actually enjoying that or does the paycheck (winning/ap) make it bearable?

Your comment makes it pretty clear you´ve never played in a grp environment where every player was a vital part of the grp.

Also ganking is a whole other problem in this game that has nothing to do with small grps and solo play - try not to mix those.

I've played small group, raid size, and 1vX, all I'm saying is that it's more than "stay on crown and spam AOE" all the time. Clearly your mind is made up on the matter so I won't bother trying to reason with you.

PS what good is small man and solo play if you're not ganking or PvDoor?

The thing that I don't get is look at the map. It has all these things called keeps. You cannot take one with 4 people. So i understand what you 4 are saying but maybe wrong game for you?

For the record I am for AOE cap removal. I am desperate at this point. Lot of time invested like many of you. Don't want the game to die

If it brings back players great.

you can take keeps solo actually. It's not a feat

No.
You can PVE a keep when it's not defended. That's not PVPing and never will be.

@spenc_cathb16_ESO
Where did I say it was PvP? I just said it's possible, it's been done, it can be done again, it's just incredibly boring.
My point is that the keeps are not a reason to make large groups, the players defending them are.

Are you trolling? This is about groups. What's the point of a 4 man group with the way this map is designed? The scoring objectives are for taking things on the map. Which you will not do against defenders.

As far as I am concerned changing things for "small groups" is dumb. I am for the AOE cap removal because i don't think it's good for the game.

But to say we need to make things better for small group I am sorry. But this is the wrong game for you. The MAJORITY of the player base in pvp is for part scale PVP.

1 v x is good for making videos and promoting thier self to get paid. I like the videos of actually accomplishing objectives in this game. So unless it's a video of a 1 v x solo defending a keep or resource I could care less. As that does nothing for the campaign. You are just wasting spots if it is pop locked.

Just like those in the sewers while objectives are being taken on the map

FENGRUSH wrote: »

WaTeR-aBuSeR wrote: »

Want small scale go to IC thats what its for.

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frozywozy wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Keep up the good work and maybe someday we will get this podcast live in Zenimax Studio live stream with Gina, Rich, Brian and Erik webcams!

Yes, and then we can turn this podcast into another gigglefest where we show off each others plush guars.
No thank you.

This podcast was exactly what I hoped ESO Live would be all along; a panel of experts discussing intricate details of the game.

Allright then. Let's keep discussing the game between players without any ZOS interactions and hope the system will change itself.

Some of ZOS were watching and lurking but having them interacting with the players with a mic would be even better because we could see exactly what they think and where they stand.

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Sorry, the ball groups in ESO are anything but strategic or chess-like. Theres generally 2 directions you can go on the map, towards one faction or the other. Sometimes you hit a keep behind the front line. What you do with your group is the same regardless of where you are. This isnt chess. Its checkers maybe, with a board sized down to 6x6.

As someone whos led guilds in other games, very large ones - Ive simply never been interested in large scale PvP in this game due to the nature of how overly simplistic large guild play was made after AOE caps/dynamic ult changes. TSYM pretty much invented the ball group to the population here, and it was never the same after that. Im sure there will be lots of people to come post otherwise though - have at it.

xaraan wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Sorry, the ball groups in ESO are anything but strategic or chess-like. Theres generally 2 directions you can go on the map, towards one faction or the other. Sometimes you hit a keep behind the front line. What you do with your group is the same regardless of where you are. This isnt chess. Its checkers maybe, with a board sized down to 6x6.

As someone whos led guilds in other games, very large ones - Ive simply never been interested in large scale PvP in this game due to the nature of how overly simplistic large guild play was made after AOE caps/dynamic ult changes. TSYM pretty much invented the ball group to the population here, and it was never the same after that. Im sure there will be lots of people to come post otherwise though - have at it.

OK, gotta piggy back onto this thread b/c it continues on this comment. I watched your playback of your stream from Tuesday night b/c you were going on about our group when you were fighting us outside of Ash. I have no problem that people enjoy 1vXing in the game or dueling, but first off you should be aware that is not what PvP in ESO is built around. It's built around fighting groups and objectives and some players will enjoy that sort of game play over 1v1s. I personally get bored by 1v1 style fights and prefer the teamwork involved in taking objectives and working towards a bigger goal than a single fight.

That being said, I think anyone can read over my posts here and see that I'm against giant zergs and think that several things should be done to combat them. Unlike you guys though, it seems that I still think it should take a group to kill a group, even if it's a smaller group killing a bigger one, and not a solo guy wiping out a dozen plus b/c they can drop five ulti's in a row. I think what bothered me most was how off-base you were with many of your complaints.

1. You state "this is what's wrong with the game" and we are lagging out the server with giant groups. We were running a 24 man group that might have been missing a person or two by the time this fight rolled out. We've fought many fights with 24v24 and had no lag. So no, a 24 man group does not lag out the server. What lagged out the server was your side. Were they "with" you, no, they were not in your group, but I hope you realize you were the one in the zerg there. We were fighting over 60 blues with open spawn at Ash (we came to siege and found out most of the alliance was there so decided to go out fighting).

2. You stated many times that we just "move here or there" and "spamming heals" that takes no skill. But then you continually talk about maneuvers we make - which would be strategy - using things like line of site, timed prox dets, ulti's to fight a much larger force. You complain about spamming heal despite the fact that once again, we have three times our number spamming attacks on us (on top of siege). Or complain that we just breath of life - yes, giving one player out of 24 a decent heal everytime we cast is all that's needed to survive vs. those numbers. Just the fact you think 24 guys fighting that many takes no skill shows your disconnect ("as many as we've picked off, look how many there still are" - b/c we did things like moving back for our dead). Or "they just move behind house, move to flag, etc - no skill" - you mean, using line of site and also avoiding the siege you were trying to set up on us in your video? You are right, we should just stand in your damage, not heal, and let everyone attack us freely. Also "rotating barrier" - we were not. You'd be surprised how few healers vs fighters we run in our group, we use barrier when we are clashing into other groups, but we don't have enough to rotate them.

3. "At Release" - "if you tried doing what they are doing now at release, they'd be busted". UH - no, we've been running as a group since release and doing just as well. Our tactics change of course as the game changes, but that wouldn't magically destroy us. In fact, you realize that AoE caps are hurting our group more than the 60 blues hitting us with attacks and siege right? And all those things you said would destroy a group at release, we used to deal with at release.

Like I said, I agree with many of your points (though not all) when you talk about zergs needing to be addressed. We used to prefer to run in groups of less than 12 (anywhere from 4-12 before last patch). But no, the game shouldn't revolve around 1vXing.

Fact is, if what we were doing took no skill, it wouldn't take 60+ people to take us out - and it would only take another 24 man blue group to do the same thing. In the end, we got tired of fighting against the spawn being right there and the lead just called stack and fight until wiping when we were finally beat. We probably could have just moved north and strung out the blues as we moved and gotten away as we killed them further away from their spawn. Does it take skill to kill one or two guys if you jump us when we are in a group? No, it doesn't and hopefully groups don't think it does.

Though I might agree with some of your points about zerging, all the inaccurate noise you mixed in the other night keeps it from being taken seriously IMO. And remember, in the end, the game is about groups fighting groups in an alliance war, not dueling. Not that very small man fights cannot take place, but you aren't meant to solo take keeps and solo run scrolls and solo wipe groups.

BossTuggles wrote: »

I do not think he was really attacking you as individuals just the way you play. I mean you literally would move behind some object and stand on crown. This isnt "skill" this is common sense to get away from something.

1. You mention how its not your numbers causing the lag however it is that playstyle. Your group legitimately had 1 person spam purge and 1 person spam healing springs they entire clip I saw, on top of this you crutch on the AoE cap. Not flaming you in any way its the way the game works atm. You can't honestly think it isn't a cheesy playstyle? At least personally I never experience lag when I turn a corner or port to a keep when its just a MASSIVE amount of people. When I do experience lag is when there is one of them groups you know a Ball group in the vicinity and its not even limited to around the keep or resource its stretches for a wide area of the map. So saying your "numbers" isnt causing the lag is correct. However your PLAYSTYLE is.

2. On your discussion of strategy. Okay its a stretch to think that moving a mass of people from point A to point B is tactics. I mean its just FOLLOW CROWN TACTICAL MANEUVER HOO. The map of cyrodil is a joke the most strategic thing you can do is like back cap something and even then its just a PvDoor session as fast as you can. I do not think, I cant speak for him, but im assuming he does not have issue that your healers are healing. What he is criticizing is that is ALL they do. I mean they legitimately use 1-3 skills tops. I mean I get it their role is to heal you but that type of playstyle can not be fullfilling or even enjoyable. Hell I heal for small scale groups where we aren't benefiting from taking half damage from AoEs all around us and even I can find time to weave in a debuff, a shards, and execute, or some other utility skill to aid the group and not just spam BoL, Healing Springs, or Purge. Even doing this, not bragging at all I am *** at this game, even doing this gets old really quick. I wanna kill people too damnit! I will reiterate, Im assuming he isnt bashing you as players, what he is implying is that this PLAYSTYLE you are so adamantly trying to defend takes soo little amount of skill thats its disgusting. Hell when I came back to this game after a long break and rolled up a temp to support we ran around with Prett and company a few times and we even rolled in a ball group for like half a week. Let me tell you as a single healer in a group of like 20 it was *** easy mode. I loaded up my bars with skills providing passives and I kept immovable up. It was *** and I honestly felt like I was not contributing at all even being the ONLY healer in the group. I would just keep up buffs and spam 3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333.

3. The way that group was moving around during that part of the stream would 100% be wiped by a 5 man squad easy at release. You mention how your tactics have changed, the tactic that changed is the crutching on the AoE cap that you guys were doing. That 60 man DC zerg you speak of did any of it at all look coordinated to you? Did you see any of them sync up ults? or you know engage you together? No. They were not benefiting from AoE caps at all cus the group that I saw in that video would just find a small bunched up group of players and just TACTICAL MANEUVER B FOLLOW CROWN HOO! It wasnt like it was a 60 man blob going into your what 18-20? No it was like 15-20 *** 2-3 man groups or solo players skirting the edges of the choo-choo trying to do anything to stay outta the way and try to even manage to dent you.



I watch Fengrush alot because I have known him for a very long time so I am supporting him. He rarely bashes anyone for their lack of skill. Outside of the random person rocking a bow in the sewers. What he does bash and *** about and has his MERIKA *** YAH moments over is the BALL GROUP PLAYSTYLE and the AoE CAPS WHICH ARE EMPOWERING this tactic to the nth degree.

Anway again I am in no way criticizing the people as players just that type of playstyle.

Sorry for long post.