PvP Podcast (Episode 7 Uploaded)

_Chaos

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

GvG open field combat is some of the best combat I've ever been a part of. Ball groups require a lot more coordination and skill than most of the keyboard warriors and small man groups think, and it's too bad that many can't appreciate the thought and effort that goes into strategic play like that.

Cyrodiil is like a giant chess game when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning. Sure people can gank and run around for days looking for enemies to pick off, but just look at the objectives and map size and it should be crystal clear what the intentions of PVP in this game was to be.

It takes thought by the leader of that grp and perfect robot execution of everyone else. WOW what an achievement. It´s like working assembly line. Are people actually enjoying that or does the paycheck (winning/ap) make it bearable?

Your comment makes it pretty clear you´ve never played in a grp environment where every player was a vital part of the grp.

Also ganking is a whole other problem in this game that has nothing to do with small grps and solo play - try not to mix those.

I've played small group, raid size, and 1vX, all I'm saying is that it's more than "stay on crown and spam AOE" all the time. Clearly your mind is made up on the matter so I won't bother trying to reason with you.

PS what good is small man and solo play if you're not ganking or PvDoor?

Maulkin

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Cyrodiil is a laggy, unplayable, fecking mess when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's not how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning.

Fixed it for ya

AbraXuSeXile

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Etaniel

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

GvG open field combat is some of the best combat I've ever been a part of. Ball groups require a lot more coordination and skill than most of the keyboard warriors and small man groups think, and it's too bad that many can't appreciate the thought and effort that goes into strategic play like that.

Cyrodiil is like a giant chess game when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning. Sure people can gank and run around for days looking for enemies to pick off, but just look at the objectives and map size and it should be crystal clear what the intentions of PVP in this game was to be.

Stacking up on crown and spamming the skill that you were asked to spam is not strategic play. The only one using his brain in "ball" groups is the leader, who has to make decisions in the heat of combat. In fact a lot of times the leader will be calling out when to drop barrier 1, 2 etc.


Cyrodil the way you see it is exactly what I was hoping for in terms of RvR / AvA. It is NOTHING like that though.

Cyrodil is more like a checkers games, not chess.

The map and game mechanics don't allow for much strategy. You've got single corridors between keeps making 80% of the map a useless wasteland where no one goes, stealth mechanics for everyone, which means dedicated scouting is useless as entire raids can go by unnoticed, fast travel between keeps, rendering death meaningless when you can port and be back asap, and also meaning you can raid a keep and even if you have dedicated groups to cover all entrance, all your enemies will have respawned/travelled there anyways.

And ffs, ganking people off their horse is not small scale PvP. In fact anyone who tries to kill people from stealth in hopes that they have no time to react do not PvP, PvP would mean giving your opponent a chance to respond, and that's something gankers cannot afford.

Mojomonkeyman

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

Maulkin

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Not really, not at all.

I have no job anywhere near a keep with ball groups inside it and +500 ping. I can't contribute much against the steel tornado/prox det blob and my single target skills won't fire in lag anyway.

Most small scale people I know use sieged keeps as a reference point and they pick fights in the distance between the sieged keep and the nearest enemy keep. Thus they actually cut off the supply of reinforcements to the lagged keep.

I have no problem with people playing however they want, but it's a fact that blobing is a) too effective due to various reasons and b) causes lag.

Neither of those are the faults of the players. It's the way ZOS have designed their game and the blame lies with them. But we've been in this dire state for so long that it now turns players against those who run in such groups. Again, normal human behaviour.

AbraXuSeXile

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

Well some bomb groups can be blamed, I mean if they are purpously going to cluttered places then this causes an horrendous experience all around and they are truly to blame, But my point was that a lot of '1vXers' are literally stood next to their zerg pretending they are 1vX'ing which then contributes to the lag all around.

I do the 24 man group 2x per week if we can be bothered, Our last raid ended at Bravil and took a lot of AD their and the map was perfectly fine. But before that we took Alessia i think. it was against a lot of AD, lag was not an issue until we had the keep then all the DC ported in and we had to leave that area as the lag was disgusting once more allies came in, so we left the area and heading somewhere else.

What i'm trying to say is, Both go hand in hand. Because the fights are always in the same location nowa days, Always the next keep. The '1vXers' cannot get rid of lag because the only location for them to usually fight is next to an abundance of allies. Whereas the trains should be going far and wide away from all this to get rid of lag and to make a new location of PvP.

Cannot explain it as much as i want to because i'm writing on my phone, But i like my small groups and solo as it shows in my signature, but to realistically look at the lag situation everyone is as much to blame as the next person. I really dispise trains going where the main PvP is because that's just truly horrible for everyone on the campain. Yesterday without any trains it was lagging horribly also because everyone was in the same area '1vX'ing'

Mojomonkeyman

Yeah, I get what you mean and I think there`s some truth to it.

Reality for me as a solo player only is just that, as Derra pointed out eloquently: "As soon as raid leads join the map, PvP dies".

And it is, in my experience, just a fact that equal numbers of players cause different amounts of lag depending on their behaviour.

Tightly stacked GvG groups are on the top end of the lag creating scale. Take the same number of players inside said GvG group doing their stuff independently will have almost no impact on the zone wide lag.

No proof or anything, just what I experience.

Etaniel

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

Well some bomb groups can be blamed, I mean if they are purpously going to cluttered places then this causes an horrendous experience all around and they are truly to blame, But my point was that a lot of '1vXers' are literally stood next to their zerg pretending they are 1vX'ing which then contributes to the lag all around.

I do the 24 man group 2x per week if we can be bothered, Our last raid ended at Bravil and took a lot of AD their and the map was perfectly fine. But before that we took Alessia i think. it was against a lot of AD, lag was not an issue until we had the keep then all the DC ported in and we had to leave that area as the lag was disgusting once more allies came in, so we left the area and heading somewhere else.

What i'm trying to say is, Both go hand in hand. Because the fights are always in the same location nowa days, Always the next keep. The '1vXers' cannot get rid of lag because the only location for them to usually fight is next to an abundance of allies. Whereas the trains should be going far and wide away from all this to get rid of lag and to make a new location of PvP.

Cannot explain it as much as i want to because i'm writing on my phone, But i like my small groups and solo as it shows in my signature, but to realistically look at the lag situation everyone is as much to blame as the next person. I really dispise trains going where the main PvP is because that's just truly horrible for everyone on the campain. Yesterday without any trains it was lagging horribly also because everyone was in the same area '1vX'ing'

Abraxus, the problem is most bomb groups (can you call them bomb groups when they burst smaller groups?) aren't as thoughtful as you and go to clustered places all the time. Actually I can't think of any other group your size aside from you that would go out of the lag zone to try and spread out the fights.

It pisses me off when I see a big cross on a keep (say yellow vs blue), the server starts to lag, and then I see a red raid rushing in to take part in the lagfest, it's that kind of dumb behaviour that makes people hate large raids.

Legedric

Etaniel wrote: »

It pisses me off when I see a big cross on a keep (say yellow vs blue), the server starts to lag, and then I see a red raid rushing in to take part in the lagfest, it's that kind of dumb behaviour that makes people hate large raids.

Couldn't agree more. Amen.

Huckdabuck

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

I agree with this statement 100% and is exactly where I was going with the comment.

Huckdabuck

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

GvG open field combat is some of the best combat I've ever been a part of. Ball groups require a lot more coordination and skill than most of the keyboard warriors and small man groups think, and it's too bad that many can't appreciate the thought and effort that goes into strategic play like that.

Cyrodiil is like a giant chess game when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning. Sure people can gank and run around for days looking for enemies to pick off, but just look at the objectives and map size and it should be crystal clear what the intentions of PVP in this game was to be.

It takes thought by the leader of that grp and perfect robot execution of everyone else. WOW what an achievement. It´s like working assembly line. Are people actually enjoying that or does the paycheck (winning/ap) make it bearable?

Your comment makes it pretty clear you´ve never played in a grp environment where every player was a vital part of the grp.

Also ganking is a whole other problem in this game that has nothing to do with small grps and solo play - try not to mix those.

I have no idea where people get the idea that folks who run in large guild raids don't also take part in smaller groups or roam around solo as well. There are preferred playstyles of course which people will gravitate to but most folks I know in game (including myself) enjoy all aspects of what Cyrodiil has to offer.

Manoekin

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

GvG open field combat is some of the best combat I've ever been a part of. Ball groups require a lot more coordination and skill than most of the keyboard warriors and small man groups think, and it's too bad that many can't appreciate the thought and effort that goes into strategic play like that.

Cyrodiil is like a giant chess game when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning. Sure people can gank and run around for days looking for enemies to pick off, but just look at the objectives and map size and it should be crystal clear what the intentions of PVP in this game was to be.

It takes thought by the leader of that grp and perfect robot execution of everyone else. WOW what an achievement. It´s like working assembly line. Are people actually enjoying that or does the paycheck (winning/ap) make it bearable?

Your comment makes it pretty clear you´ve never played in a grp environment where every player was a vital part of the grp.

Also ganking is a whole other problem in this game that has nothing to do with small grps and solo play - try not to mix those.

What an ignorant comment. As someone who's played both small man and medium-large groups extensively I find you guilty of not knowing what you are talking about. Any "robotic" group running around is not a good group. Playing that way only proves you don't trust your group, and there are a few of those admittedly. The best groups I've played with and played against aren't like that though. There's a distinct difference between a good player and a bad player, and it shows even in large groups. I've seen a lot of the better solo players over the course of ESO history play with larger groups and they don't turn robotic, so your notion of "big groups are just robots following the crown" is both absurd and an insult to your fellow smallman/solo players who choose to play with the friends they meet in the game. I mean ffs, I've played in a large group with people that have 1v1'd people on the damn panel.

Dreyloch

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

I think your placing the blame in the wrong direction. The game was supposed to be designed to handle large scale battles. Regardless if that's 2x24 man raids or up to 10x24 man raids inclusive of all the factions AND you in your corner of the map wherever that may be. ZoS is to blame for not having the tech setup to handle all this. They say they're working on it,and while it "has" gotten slightly better? It's still way WAyyy far from perfect.

Trying to blame the player base for wanting to group up in numbers regardless of all the others wanting to be "small-scale" when the map was never designed for small scale in the first place. Is wrong. It's a WAR. Just think about it in RL. You needed full army's to siege castles back in that time. Hundreds, even thousands of men for weeks or months on end. Sure there may have been some smaller units out there to cut off supplies or something, but the main objective was to get inside the castle walls.

Mojomonkeyman

Dreyloch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

I think your placing the blame in the wrong direction. The game was supposed to be designed to handle large scale battles. Regardless if that's 2x24 man raids or up to 10x24 man raids inclusive of all the factions AND you in your corner of the map wherever that may be. ZoS is to blame for not having the tech setup to handle all this. They say they're working on it,and while it "has" gotten slightly better? It's still way WAyyy far from perfect.

Trying to blame the player base for wanting to group up in numbers regardless of all the others wanting to be "small-scale" when the map was never designed for small scale in the first place. Is wrong. It's a WAR. Just think about it in RL. You needed full army's to siege castles back in that time. Hundreds, even thousands of men for weeks or months on end. Sure there may have been some smaller units out there to cut off supplies or something, but the main objective was to get inside the castle walls.

I think you never read the ESO presale advertising, havent been around in beta or prerelease.

Because ZOS advertized Cyro as a playing ground for PvP of all scales and promised equal attention for at least three forms of PvP endgame related:

• Solo
• Smallscale (single group)
• Large scale

There was a reason I switched from GW2 Arena and smallscale to ESO, because they advertized it as being wanted and important.

It seems you are the one had wrong who expectations coming to this game. Your arguments are how you picture war, my arguments are based on what ZOS promised me this game would offer.

Apart from that, even if we would take your dream of how war should play out as the ideal scenario - it wouldnt be technically possible, because ZOS engine can`t handle mass PvP...

Etaniel

Dreyloch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

I think your placing the blame in the wrong direction. The game was supposed to be designed to handle large scale battles. Regardless if that's 2x24 man raids or up to 10x24 man raids inclusive of all the factions AND you in your corner of the map wherever that may be. ZoS is to blame for not having the tech setup to handle all this. They say they're working on it,and while it "has" gotten slightly better? It's still way WAyyy far from perfect.

Trying to blame the player base for wanting to group up in numbers regardless of all the others wanting to be "small-scale" when the map was never designed for small scale in the first place. Is wrong. It's a WAR. Just think about it in RL. You needed full army's to siege castles back in that time. Hundreds, even thousands of men for weeks or months on end. Sure there may have been some smaller units out there to cut off supplies or something, but the main objective was to get inside the castle walls.

In RL castles weren't 2 min apart from each other, and in real life, stacking like a ball group does will hurt your feet very badly.

Minno

Dreyloch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

I think your placing the blame in the wrong direction. The game was supposed to be designed to handle large scale battles. Regardless if that's 2x24 man raids or up to 10x24 man raids inclusive of all the factions AND you in your corner of the map wherever that may be. ZoS is to blame for not having the tech setup to handle all this. They say they're working on it,and while it "has" gotten slightly better? It's still way WAyyy far from perfect.

Trying to blame the player base for wanting to group up in numbers regardless of all the others wanting to be "small-scale" when the map was never designed for small scale in the first place. Is wrong. It's a WAR. Just think about it in RL. You needed full army's to siege castles back in that time. Hundreds, even thousands of men for weeks or months on end. Sure there may have been some smaller units out there to cut off supplies or something, but the main objective was to get inside the castle walls.

Or ratherZOS didn't step up to the plate to do the following:

1) properly test their design intent to the extreme
2) issue fast and concise hotfixes to address balance issues.

And by ZOS I mean higher up project managers looking at costs instead of the health of the game.

Anazasi

First I think this was long overdue. Have not seen a player podcast regarding this game since launch. Shout out to Shodycast!!!!

Second I think having a panel of solo pvp players discussing large group play doesn't make sense. I'm not saying none of you guys don't know your class or have valuable input on the pvp game but its the apples talking to oranges. If you want to bring the pvp players together you need to include some of the group leaders who lead pvp raids.

Legedric

Etaniel wrote: »

In RL castles weren't 2 min apart from each other, and in real life, stacking like a ball group does will hurt your feet very badly.

Not only your feet once you start swinging your sword or shooting your bow...

Maulkin

Anazasi wrote: »

First I think this was long overdue. Have not seen a player podcast regarding this game since launch. Shout out to Shodycast!!!!

Second I think having a panel of solo pvp players discussing large group play doesn't make sense. I'm not saying none of you guys don't know your class or have valuable input on the pvp game but its the apples talking to oranges. If you want to bring the pvp players together you need to include some of the group leaders who lead pvp raids.

The problem with your statement is that from my experience of speaking to large raid/guild leaders their input is usually limited to: "Can you fix the lag plz? kthxbye ".

That's because the chips are already heavily stacked in their favour...
1) AoE caps protect them
2) PBAoEs (prox det & steel tornado) are much much stronger abilities than Ranged AoEs (like Eruption, Liquid Lightning, Wall of Elements, Volley)
3) Alliance War abilities and ultimates have a maximum range but no cap, thus favouring their stacking strategy.

Basically the whole PvP game heavily favours that sort of playstyle so someone who benefits so much from the current PvP meta doesn't want much change and won't contribute much to the discussion about changing game mechanics.

They only want the lag miraculously fixed and that's about it. After that they think it's all good.

Huckdabuck

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

First I think this was long overdue. Have not seen a player podcast regarding this game since launch. Shout out to Shodycast!!!!

Second I think having a panel of solo pvp players discussing large group play doesn't make sense. I'm not saying none of you guys don't know your class or have valuable input on the pvp game but its the apples talking to oranges. If you want to bring the pvp players together you need to include some of the group leaders who lead pvp raids.

The problem with your statement is that from my experience of speaking to large raid/guild leaders their input is usually limited to: "Can you fix the lag plz? kthxbye ".

That's because the chips are already heavily stacked in their favour...
1) AoE caps protect them
2) PBAoEs (prox det & steel tornado) are much much stronger abilities than Ranged AoEs (like Eruption, Liquid Lightning, Wall of Elements, Volley)
3) Alliance War abilities and ultimates have a maximum range but no cap, thus favouring their stacking strategy.

Basically the whole PvP game heavily favours that sort of playstyle so someone who benefits so much from the current PvP meta doesn't want much change and won't contribute much to the discussion about changing game mechanics.

They only want the lag miraculously fixed and that's about it. After that they think it's all good.

For the health of this dying game, I'd be willing to bet that the larger NA PVP guilds would be more than willing to provide a different viewpoint and collectively assist in such an endeavor. Did anyone ask them? I know for a fact a few guilds have rerolled after having max leveled toons to help balance (at the time) the factions but then again if they really cared about an advantage.....they would have just stayed put on those titans. Queue the @ every major guild leader name here.

Asmael

Etaniel wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

I think your placing the blame in the wrong direction. The game was supposed to be designed to handle large scale battles. Regardless if that's 2x24 man raids or up to 10x24 man raids inclusive of all the factions AND you in your corner of the map wherever that may be. ZoS is to blame for not having the tech setup to handle all this. They say they're working on it,and while it "has" gotten slightly better? It's still way WAyyy far from perfect.

Trying to blame the player base for wanting to group up in numbers regardless of all the others wanting to be "small-scale" when the map was never designed for small scale in the first place. Is wrong. It's a WAR. Just think about it in RL. You needed full army's to siege castles back in that time. Hundreds, even thousands of men for weeks or months on end. Sure there may have been some smaller units out there to cut off supplies or something, but the main objective was to get inside the castle walls.

In RL castles weren't 2 min apart from each other, and in real life, stacking like a ball group does will hurt your feet very badly.

I don't think stacking 60+ people in a 2x2 meters square only hurts your feet. It probably hurts physics itself more at this point.

Dreyloch

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

I think your placing the blame in the wrong direction. The game was supposed to be designed to handle large scale battles. Regardless if that's 2x24 man raids or up to 10x24 man raids inclusive of all the factions AND you in your corner of the map wherever that may be. ZoS is to blame for not having the tech setup to handle all this. They say they're working on it,and while it "has" gotten slightly better? It's still way WAyyy far from perfect.

Trying to blame the player base for wanting to group up in numbers regardless of all the others wanting to be "small-scale" when the map was never designed for small scale in the first place. Is wrong. It's a WAR. Just think about it in RL. You needed full army's to siege castles back in that time. Hundreds, even thousands of men for weeks or months on end. Sure there may have been some smaller units out there to cut off supplies or something, but the main objective was to get inside the castle walls.

I think you never read the ESO presale advertising, havent been around in beta or prerelease.

Because ZOS advertized Cyro as a playing ground for PvP of all scales and promised equal attention for at least three forms of PvP endgame related:

• Solo
• Smallscale (single group)
• Large scale

There was a reason I switched from GW2 Arena and smallscale to ESO, because they advertized it as being wanted and important.

It seems you are the one had wrong who expectations coming to this game. Your arguments are how you picture war, my arguments are based on what ZOS promised me this game would offer.

Apart from that, even if we would take your dream of how war should play out as the ideal scenario - it wouldnt be technically possible, because ZOS engine can`t handle mass PvP...

Yes, and they also said this game would never ever go F2P. So what was your point again? Don't get all bent because our visions of Cyrodiil differ. Get bent on why ZoS hasn't delivered it to either of us.I seem to recall (since I HAVE played since beta) that they also said arena's and battlegrounds never really were on the agenda either. If that's what you mean by "small-grp or solo play"

Dreyloch

Etaniel wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

I really dont know why you guys are so hell bent on blaming ball groups, i do all sorts of PVP from 1vX to leading a 24 man group.

I can safely say that you guys who claim to be 1vX guys while sat ungrouped next to your zerg contribute as much to the problem as the ball groups.

The ball groups who skip keeps and go find fights away from others for instance if the fight is at nikel to ash and they go to faregyl they eleviate the lag by spreading people out and making a new fight elsewhere, whereas the '1vX' muppets only fight is where the main pvp is.

So there you have the cold hard truth of your precious 1vX crap.

Playing the past weeks in the evenings, I have to disagree. Two 20-30 players strong balls (Karisha and Printdreams groups) made Trueflame lag like hell, when shortly before it didnt lag at all for the entire day. You don`t need to be close, they don`t even need to fight each other. As soon as they are active on the map spamming whatever they can spam ping will jump up from 50 to 400-500. Even when I`m on the other side of the map - rendering the game unplayable for me.

I have nothing against either of those groups, but that playstyle certainly makes mine less enjoyable.

Cold hard truth as well. I can`t remember that my solo play ever lagged somebody and ruined her/his experience.

I think your placing the blame in the wrong direction. The game was supposed to be designed to handle large scale battles. Regardless if that's 2x24 man raids or up to 10x24 man raids inclusive of all the factions AND you in your corner of the map wherever that may be. ZoS is to blame for not having the tech setup to handle all this. They say they're working on it,and while it "has" gotten slightly better? It's still way WAyyy far from perfect.

Trying to blame the player base for wanting to group up in numbers regardless of all the others wanting to be "small-scale" when the map was never designed for small scale in the first place. Is wrong. It's a WAR. Just think about it in RL. You needed full army's to siege castles back in that time. Hundreds, even thousands of men for weeks or months on end. Sure there may have been some smaller units out there to cut off supplies or something, but the main objective was to get inside the castle walls.

In RL castles weren't 2 min apart from each other, and in real life, stacking like a ball group does will hurt your feet very badly.

Where did I say anything about Ball groups? lol. But yes, that would be painful.

Maulkin

Huckdabuck wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

First I think this was long overdue. Have not seen a player podcast regarding this game since launch. Shout out to Shodycast!!!!

Second I think having a panel of solo pvp players discussing large group play doesn't make sense. I'm not saying none of you guys don't know your class or have valuable input on the pvp game but its the apples talking to oranges. If you want to bring the pvp players together you need to include some of the group leaders who lead pvp raids.

The problem with your statement is that from my experience of speaking to large raid/guild leaders their input is usually limited to: "Can you fix the lag plz? kthxbye ".

That's because the chips are already heavily stacked in their favour...
1) AoE caps protect them
2) PBAoEs (prox det & steel tornado) are much much stronger abilities than Ranged AoEs (like Eruption, Liquid Lightning, Wall of Elements, Volley)
3) Alliance War abilities and ultimates have a maximum range but no cap, thus favouring their stacking strategy.

Basically the whole PvP game heavily favours that sort of playstyle so someone who benefits so much from the current PvP meta doesn't want much change and won't contribute much to the discussion about changing game mechanics.

They only want the lag miraculously fixed and that's about it. After that they think it's all good.

For the health of this dying game, I'd be willing to bet that the larger NA PVP guilds would be more than willing to provide a different viewpoint and collectively assist in such an endeavor. Did anyone ask them? I know for a fact a few guilds have rerolled after having max leveled toons to help balance (at the time) the factions but then again if they really cared about an advantage.....they would have just stayed put on those titans. Queue the @ every major guild leader name here.

I can help with that on the EU side. Braxy is already here (@AbraXuSeXile). We also have @Oswolf , @Karisha, @DlSTORTlON, @Legedric, @Crogster, @RobWoods and....I believe @johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO runs large raids from time to time? ( ) . Dunno Printdreams forum tag, if he has one.

That's obviously nowhere near all, but many of the prevalent ones from all factions. I'd be interested to hear what they think needs changing beyond "fix the lag".

Derra

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

GvG open field combat is some of the best combat I've ever been a part of. Ball groups require a lot more coordination and skill than most of the keyboard warriors and small man groups think, and it's too bad that many can't appreciate the thought and effort that goes into strategic play like that.

Cyrodiil is like a giant chess game when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning. Sure people can gank and run around for days looking for enemies to pick off, but just look at the objectives and map size and it should be crystal clear what the intentions of PVP in this game was to be.

It takes thought by the leader of that grp and perfect robot execution of everyone else. WOW what an achievement. It´s like working assembly line. Are people actually enjoying that or does the paycheck (winning/ap) make it bearable?

Your comment makes it pretty clear you´ve never played in a grp environment where every player was a vital part of the grp.

Also ganking is a whole other problem in this game that has nothing to do with small grps and solo play - try not to mix those.

I've played small group, raid size, and 1vX, all I'm saying is that it's more than "stay on crown and spam AOE" all the time. Clearly your mind is made up on the matter so I won't bother trying to reason with you.

PS what good is small man and solo play if you're not ganking or PvDoor?

I have nothing against pvp raids in general. I have something against the stay on crown stick blob mentality that gains maximum benefit of uncapped defense (barrier purge) with the added layer of aoecap dmg reduction.

I know it requires (little) more than stay on crown and aoe. But it´s a wash to argue about it really. My point remains - the only person in an organised 24 slot grp who has to put thought into play is the leader. A good leader will call virtually every move that is not part of the normal rotation of your puppets...
Do you want to know how i know it does not require much to play in a blob? I´ve done it myself for one (boooooo - shame shame shame) as a negate healing monkey.
Secondly every time you meet those blob muppets (not their leaders) out of their grp most of them are completely incapable of doing anything deviating from their large grp rotation. When someone charges you and begins to spam 3x steeltornado 1xpurge and keeps that rotation up even if you´re just jumping circles around them and then dies in 4 seconds once you decide to attack you know what it takes to play in a blob. Yet they have somehow reached alliance war rank40+ (in the train you consistently see them in every evening).

Also you can have played everything without ever havign experienced what it´s like to play in a really well coordinated grp.

Huckdabuck

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

GvG open field combat is some of the best combat I've ever been a part of. Ball groups require a lot more coordination and skill than most of the keyboard warriors and small man groups think, and it's too bad that many can't appreciate the thought and effort that goes into strategic play like that.

Cyrodiil is like a giant chess game when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning. Sure people can gank and run around for days looking for enemies to pick off, but just look at the objectives and map size and it should be crystal clear what the intentions of PVP in this game was to be.

It takes thought by the leader of that grp and perfect robot execution of everyone else. WOW what an achievement. It´s like working assembly line. Are people actually enjoying that or does the paycheck (winning/ap) make it bearable?

Your comment makes it pretty clear you´ve never played in a grp environment where every player was a vital part of the grp.

Also ganking is a whole other problem in this game that has nothing to do with small grps and solo play - try not to mix those.

I've played small group, raid size, and 1vX, all I'm saying is that it's more than "stay on crown and spam AOE" all the time. Clearly your mind is made up on the matter so I won't bother trying to reason with you.

PS what good is small man and solo play if you're not ganking or PvDoor?

I have nothing against pvp raids in general. I have something against the stay on crown stick blob mentality that gains maximum benefit of uncapped defense (barrier purge) with the added layer of aoecap dmg reduction.

I know it requires (little) more than stay on crown and aoe. But it´s a wash to argue about it really. My point remains - the only person in an organised 24 slot grp who has to put thought into play is the leader. A good leader will call virtually every move that is not part of the normal rotation of your puppets...
Do you want to know how i know it does not require much to play in a blob? I´ve done it myself for one (boooooo - shame shame shame) as a negate healing monkey.
Secondly every time you meet those blob muppets (not their leaders) out of their grp most of them are completely incapable of doing anything deviating from their large grp rotation. When someone charges you and begins to spam 3x steeltornado 1xpurge and keeps that rotation up even if you´re just jumping circles around them and then dies in 4 seconds once you decide to attack you know what it takes to play in a blob. Yet they have somehow reached alliance war rank40+ (in the train you consistently see them in every evening).

Also you can have played everything without ever havign experienced what it´s like to play in a really well coordinated grp.

Maybe due to them only having their large group set up while being away from their large group? Most folks are going to set up a solo/small man group build just to play horse simulator and then reset their large group build. Food for thought since you appear to be starving at the moment. I think it's rather apparent how you feel and what you think of those who run in larger raids......we got it.

Maulkin

Derra wrote: »

Do you want to know how i know it does not require much to play in a blob? I´ve done it myself for one (boooooo - shame shame shame) as a negate healing monkey.

Derra

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

GvG open field combat is some of the best combat I've ever been a part of. Ball groups require a lot more coordination and skill than most of the keyboard warriors and small man groups think, and it's too bad that many can't appreciate the thought and effort that goes into strategic play like that.

Cyrodiil is like a giant chess game when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning. Sure people can gank and run around for days looking for enemies to pick off, but just look at the objectives and map size and it should be crystal clear what the intentions of PVP in this game was to be.

It takes thought by the leader of that grp and perfect robot execution of everyone else. WOW what an achievement. It´s like working assembly line. Are people actually enjoying that or does the paycheck (winning/ap) make it bearable?

Your comment makes it pretty clear you´ve never played in a grp environment where every player was a vital part of the grp.

Also ganking is a whole other problem in this game that has nothing to do with small grps and solo play - try not to mix those.

I've played small group, raid size, and 1vX, all I'm saying is that it's more than "stay on crown and spam AOE" all the time. Clearly your mind is made up on the matter so I won't bother trying to reason with you.

PS what good is small man and solo play if you're not ganking or PvDoor?

I have nothing against pvp raids in general. I have something against the stay on crown stick blob mentality that gains maximum benefit of uncapped defense (barrier purge) with the added layer of aoecap dmg reduction.

I know it requires (little) more than stay on crown and aoe. But it´s a wash to argue about it really. My point remains - the only person in an organised 24 slot grp who has to put thought into play is the leader. A good leader will call virtually every move that is not part of the normal rotation of your puppets...
Do you want to know how i know it does not require much to play in a blob? I´ve done it myself for one (boooooo - shame shame shame) as a negate healing monkey.
Secondly every time you meet those blob muppets (not their leaders) out of their grp most of them are completely incapable of doing anything deviating from their large grp rotation. When someone charges you and begins to spam 3x steeltornado 1xpurge and keeps that rotation up even if you´re just jumping circles around them and then dies in 4 seconds once you decide to attack you know what it takes to play in a blob. Yet they have somehow reached alliance war rank40+ (in the train you consistently see them in every evening).

Also you can have played everything without ever havign experienced what it´s like to play in a really well coordinated grp.

Maybe due to them only having their large group set up while being away from their large group? Most folks are going to set up a solo/small man group build just to play horse simulator and then reset their large group build. Food for thought since you appear to be starving at the moment. I think it's rather apparent how you feel and what you think of those who run in larger raids......we got it.

Since i´ve encountered them when the specific raid was not honoring the campaign with it´s presence it can safely deny this possiblitiy.

_Chaos

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Huckdabuck wrote: »

Just a observation but wouldn't "We are small man ESO" be more fitting of the podcast title instead?

If you enjoy the current meta of ball groups then yes, this would be a fitting title for you to label it as.

Everyone has a role. You play your role and the ball groups play theirs. To title a podcast with nothing but duelers and small man PvP'ers and call it "WE ARE ESO" just doesn't seem to properly reflect the title due to y'all (small man PvP'ers) only being a portion of what this game is (RP'ers, PvE'ers, Whateverelse'ers).

Ball groups play their role when they siege/defend keeps or attack/defend scroll temples. They serve no purpose other than being *** when they roam the sewers with 20 men, or any other place really.

GvG open field combat is some of the best combat I've ever been a part of. Ball groups require a lot more coordination and skill than most of the keyboard warriors and small man groups think, and it's too bad that many can't appreciate the thought and effort that goes into strategic play like that.

Cyrodiil is like a giant chess game when multiple "ball" groups are playing the map, and that's how I personally pictured ESO PVP from the beginning. Sure people can gank and run around for days looking for enemies to pick off, but just look at the objectives and map size and it should be crystal clear what the intentions of PVP in this game was to be.

It takes thought by the leader of that grp and perfect robot execution of everyone else. WOW what an achievement. It´s like working assembly line. Are people actually enjoying that or does the paycheck (winning/ap) make it bearable?

Your comment makes it pretty clear you´ve never played in a grp environment where every player was a vital part of the grp.

Also ganking is a whole other problem in this game that has nothing to do with small grps and solo play - try not to mix those.

I've played small group, raid size, and 1vX, all I'm saying is that it's more than "stay on crown and spam AOE" all the time. Clearly your mind is made up on the matter so I won't bother trying to reason with you.

PS what good is small man and solo play if you're not ganking or PvDoor?

I have nothing against pvp raids in general. I have something against the stay on crown stick blob mentality that gains maximum benefit of uncapped defense (barrier purge) with the added layer of aoecap dmg reduction.

I know it requires (little) more than stay on crown and aoe. But it´s a wash to argue about it really. My point remains - the only person in an organised 24 slot grp who has to put thought into play is the leader. A good leader will call virtually every move that is not part of the normal rotation of your puppets...
Do you want to know how i know it does not require much to play in a blob? I´ve done it myself for one (boooooo - shame shame shame) as a negate healing monkey.
Secondly every time you meet those blob muppets (not their leaders) out of their grp most of them are completely incapable of doing anything deviating from their large grp rotation. When someone charges you and begins to spam 3x steeltornado 1xpurge and keeps that rotation up even if you´re just jumping circles around them and then dies in 4 seconds once you decide to attack you know what it takes to play in a blob. Yet they have somehow reached alliance war rank40+ (in the train you consistently see them in every evening).

Also you can have played everything without ever havign experienced what it´s like to play in a really well coordinated grp.

smh.
You can see what groups merely follow crown, and what groups have a sense of autonomy and mechanics just by watching how they play. There's definitely strong raids where individuals think for themselves while still being a part of the team, or there's others that stay on crown and button mash.

OR you can generalize that all large group players are garbbo and do little more than just follow crown, in that case I call @Teargrants to the stand.