1. Before 1.6 it was a disorient which you could spam over and over again and perma CC when they were out of stamina, which they fixed by making it a hard CC. The way they have fixed skills that disorient and allow you to perma CC but without a perma being a hard CC(streak) that gave immunity was by labeling it a stun, taking away the disorient and allowing CC immunity. This is just how the pattern is been. Whats just awkward with jabs is when they get CC immunity from each jab and if they CC break during a flurry of jabs. They could just take away the the CC and take away synergy it has with the dual wield passives for stamina builds (not sure if there are others) if CC immunity is a gamebreaking issue.
(i dont even know if it was a disorient anymore, it was so long ago haha)
4. Seems like unfortunate luck or a gameplay issue if you are spamming it on DK's and their reflect, if you plan on doing so use Eclipse which instantly reflects it back and anytime to react. Eclipse also refects proxydet, frag shield, dawnbreaker and soul strike (pretty OP)
5. Have you ever tried the stamina morph or only ever tried the magika morph?
Do you mean blazing spears? or shield
1. Before 1.6 it was a disorient which you could spam over and over again and perma CC when they were out of stamina, which they fixed by making it a hard CC. The way they have fixed skills that disorient and allow you to perma CC but without a perma being a hard CC(streak) that gave immunity was by labeling it a stun, taking away the disorient and allowing CC immunity. This is just how the pattern is been. Whats just awkward with jabs is when they get CC immunity from each jab and if they CC break during a flurry of jabs. They could just take away the the CC and take away synergy it has with the dual wield passives for stamina builds (not sure if there are others) if CC immunity is a gamebreaking issue.
(i dont even know if it was a disorient anymore, it was so long ago haha)
4. Seems like unfortunate luck or a gameplay issue if you are spamming it on DK's and their reflect, if you plan on doing so use Eclipse which instantly reflects it back and anytime to react. Eclipse also refects proxydet, frag shield, dawnbreaker and soul strike (pretty OP)
5. Have you ever tried the stamina morph or only ever tried the magika morph?
Do you mean blazing spears? or shield
1. And taking away the CC is what many have been suggesting. For me its just problematic having to dish out immunity with my only proper magic damage skill... Not having the choice to use a better cc.
4. It is partly a L2P issue. But using Dark Flare and Eclipse requires good timing, luck, no cc immunity on the target... It is an elaborate and situational tactic, requires certain skill, makes you vulnerable to interrupts and takes up 2 slots. 3 if you want extra protection from the 1h and shield reflect. Rolldodging,using line of sight to avoid the hit or casint a reflect is a rather easy counter to sth that takes a lot of skill to pull off.
5. No. What is the cap on an average stamina build? For me as a sp centered magicka dps it is around 17k.
I mean the shield, but you could also compare spears as a cc with others. The abiliteis i mentioned do have their uses, but i feel they are just a little too underpowered and situational compared to what other classes have. IMO its not like templars have better survivability than dks or movement than sorcs or nbs to warrant eclipse, our ccs and shield being so bad.
I think little changes like making sppear shards hit faster (e.g. by skipping the aiming step, making it ground targeted) or making eclipse castable on cc immune targets (of course only on one at a time and perhaps with increased cost on casts within 4 sec.) would make huge differences. There have been mainly little suggestions like this in these templar QQ threads,with the goal of making abilities fun to use again.
I dont think this warrants shame or templars needing to be put in place, be it by community embassadors or moderators.
@Springt-Über-Zwerge:
Im not particularly excited about you suggestion for Nova, but I like much in the post before that.
Especially a slightly larger radius for Sweep would be great, same as a faster but weaker Healing ritual.
Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »@suru what exactly dont you like about the nova part?
I thought it to be useful as some kind of an aoe insta damage since atm everyone just walks out of novas
Attorneyatlawl wrote: »BugCollector wrote: »What we still need:
1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash
1. It isn't "free" cc immunity. It is an extremely high damage skill, acts as a channel, and performs several hits very quickly which will drain enemy stamina very fast (4 hits per cast of about 1 second, each costing the same amount of stamina to mitigate as any other single hit attack with how block cost mechanics work). It also will proc any "on-hit" effects with one chance or effect per hit caused. If you take a look around the skill lines you can see some nice synergies with this bit . The knockback will also interrupt anyone trying to cast and prevents them from moving for a moment as they're in the air. Between the high dps, inherent synergy with on-hit effects, and moderate but still substantial CC in small-scale play in PVP (and non-impacting in large group fighting at all), I don't agree this change is needed at all, and would be a rather large net loss in the power of the skill to have it removed.
2. I was unable to encounter the "global cooldown" in any gameplay impacting form on the live servers to date, until recently. When purposefully trying to do so and mentioning in a guild chat I couldn't find it and asking if anyone knew if it was a real thing, I described how I was testing with Toppling and Explosive Charge. I have always activated the skill, and then as I landed in the animation and right as the actual damage effect was applied, would be hitting block followed by a basic weapon attack to then use another skill immediately afterwards. This optimized and properly timed method of play never runs into the cooldown issue. However, someone pointed out that (to me, counter-intuitively), most people are probably not and so I never had either and was fairly surprised at the insistence that the problem even existed in recent Templar threads. Upon then trying it that way, I found you could not activate another skill right off the bat like I had been, when not timing it properly.
3. The blazing Shards are rather high DPS and have a lot unique add-ins being one of the few high direct-damage ground targeted AOE's in the game, providing a targetable single-target crowd control on impact (disorient, which has no CC immunity, or a stun on the DoT version), and being able to substitute for a weapon-based AOE with how well they scale. Add in the Aedric Spear passive which has a 25% chance per tick of the DoT along with one on the initial impact, and the synergy for restoring a large chunk of magicka and stamina (on the disorient morph without DoT) or stamina (on the stun morph with ground DoT afterwards), and it's a very powerful skill with strong uses in both PvE and PvP.
4. Dark Flare eschews the instant proc chance for a higher damage scaling factor with character stats (at the same magicka and spellpower, you actually end up with a much higher resulting tooltip) and AOE heal debuff around the target on hit (fun trivia: this is a second, minimal-damage coefficient aoe hit that applies this... and so you can get double benefit from on-hit effects like Quick Siphon thanks to that ). It not only is one of the most powerful nukes in the game, but has the multi-hit factor, aoe heal debuff, and procs a 5% spellpower buff for anyone else near you, as well as yourself.
By contrast, Sorcerers have no benefit other than the instant proc chance, on the Crystal Fragments morph and instead of a multi-hit ability that does a very useful heal debuff, it does a stun (which isn't always ideal such as when someone is already under CC immunity from break-free for 8 seconds... longer than the proc allows you to instantly cast within (you have 6 seconds to use it)). It's a tradeoff as well since it scales worse with character stats by a low amount. Passive-wise, it provides a less-useful 3% spell critical chance for yourself and anyone near you, and a just-shy-of-being-good 8% maximum health heal (at 12% or so, it would be a factor to consider strong).
I see each skill as having pros and cons, while overall having similar power totals. That is what balance means , in my opinion.
5. I don't have any real input on Backlash and Power of the Light, but they are instant casts with secondary effects, and unless solo, nearly always (if not always) will reach their damage caps when used, which are very high tooltip values at a low resource cost, along with proccing the Dawn's Wrath passives. I don't think there's any need to raise it, but I also don't think there's any substantial case either way as to not raising it a mild amount as you suggested .
/two-cents
Thank you for putting these QQ templars in place Attorney.
Ill just add in my input
1. Jabs should give CC immunity after the channel if the enemy isnt holding block, but if he is, you are draining his stamina for free like attorney said.
2. The global cooldown is really stupid but goes by skill mechanics where you cannot activate a skill afterwards to prevent spam. They should make this skill a special case and also give it a stamina morph (PLEASE)
3.Blazing Spears will always be the better morph for AoE because of the 25% chance to proc burning light. If you are a magika build that is a 25% to proc a free 3~5k burning light every .5(?) seconds because of the DoT, PLUS it gives stamina back to your party. It already does amazing DPS, the BEST? no, but overall it is amazing with utility aswell.
4. No to an instant proc. It is like the magika wrecking blow that does more damage easily and heal debuffs IN AN AOE. I've been able to hit crazy numbers and DPS just using and going through the cast of Dark Flare over and over again.
5. Fine as is, It can crit, gg.
Templars can hit amazing numbers and when I first rolled one, I was so overwhelmed by what to put on my bar in pvp just for the utility. In pve the bar setup is much easier and can still contend with classes.
#whatattorneysaidtimidobserver wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »@Attorneyatlawl
Reading your Templar posts are always entertaing. You can, with a straight face, say that power of Dark Flare is remotely similar to Crystal fragments. It is impossible to land a dark flare on any half way decent pvper. The instant cast proc and quick projectile speed is worth infinitely more than any of the effects on dark flare even if they increased the damage by 50%.
Calling blazing spear blazing shards makes me wonder if you even play a Templar regularly. Another long flight time skill that no decent player should be hit single target with. It is certainly more useful than dark flare only because of the unblockable stun and passable aoe damage, but it is still weaker than many other aoes/ccs in the game due to the flight time, single target cc, and random targeting of the the cc.
Dark Flare has only a very slightly higher travel time per amount of distance covered. The travel speed affects how long it takes to land based on that. From closer ranges including in group fights, it will land on an enemy healer nearly as quickly as a Crystal Fragments cast. It is far from "impossible to land"... like most other facets of the game, it takes timing, the proper circumstance, and skill. As I said, additionally, the power of Dark Flare scales higher than Crystal Fragments with character stats by a moderate-to-low margin.
]I call skills what they are, as is convenient and makes which skill is being talked about clear. Some people called Radiant Oppression "Jesus Beam" regularly in chat, or TS. I call it "blazing shards" because it is the ground DoT variant. I call Luminous... just luminous . Quibbling over how someone refers to a skill's name is beyond nitpicking.
As to if I play a Templar regularly... if you as a long time Templar player are asking that, when you just stated you think the Shards' crowd control is "a random targeting of the cc", then that's a non-sequitur, whichever is the case or not. Half-experienced as you say you are... you still never realized that the crowd control effect goes to your currently focused target based on the crosshair (including tab target focusing to disambiguate when multiple enemies are inside of the same spot on the screen)? Shards is one of the highest damage AOE's, is ranged with ground targeting unlike the majority of all others, provides a strong CC effect and synergy. The higher flight time allows you to backload another skill to land at the same time: it isn't a downside, but simply a difference.
Before questioning whether someone is "qualified" in your opinion, as though they need anyone's permission to make their feedback as well as anyone else does, at least be forthcoming as to your own "qualifications" (quote-unquote).
It is completely unbelievable that you think Dark Flare similar in power to Crystal fragments and consider the dark flare flight time "slight" even though this "slight" flight time happens after you already went through the cast time. If you are fighting a dk or a shield user, you are going to dark flare yourself due to the long cast time plus the flight time making reacting to the skill easier. I can't decide if you just like to go against the popular opinion in order to prove people wrong or if you really believe that those two skills have similar power.
I did not question your qualification or permission to give your opinion. I did say that calling the skill blazing shards made me question whether you play a Templar regularly.
In a pvp scenario, darkflare will do more damge than frags on paper, since it powerful the second you cast (already has a higher tooltip) it and by the time the time its in the air you are almost done casting it (an empowered version). I will agree with the sentiment that it should have a faster projectile speed like frags, but frags is only ever powerful after you maybe empower it on an instant cast, otherwise hardcasting it is a joke and can roll dodge easily aswell. Frags just has CC and a better 1v1 ability over Flare, but PvP isnt always a 1v1 game.
Joy_Division wrote: »The day I see Templars dominating PvP using abilities like Backlash, Dark Flare, Healing Ritual, Javelin and all the skills that seem impressive on a spreadsheet touted by people who do not have much experience PvPing a Templar is the day I will believe these abilities are legitimately competitive.
Joy_Division wrote: »The day I see Templars dominating PvP using abilities like Backlash, Dark Flare, Healing Ritual, Javelin and all the skills that seem impressive on a spreadsheet touted by people who do not have much experience PvPing a Templar is the day I will believe these abilities are legitimately competitive.
Healing ritual should not be nerfed. Reduce cast, increase cost and you'll get another rushed ceremony. That's dumb as hell. Just reduce the cast time and that will be enough.
I only now realized how ZOS buffed Honor the Dead:
1. They buffed mana proc return form 50% to 75%
2. They nerfed mana return from 18% to 15%
Buff+nerf=nothing, ninja-nerfing Templars forever
Thats how ZOS buffing templar skills.