That's it for Templars?

Anhedonie

Time to reroll.

AfkNinja

I will not give them the satisfaction of making me reroll. Templar is my favorite class and I will keep talkin s@#$ until Templar is everything it can be. Templar 4 lyfe (till they add another spear class).

SeptimusDova

IF they fix just a few things it would make play easier. My healz are good. I am adjusting to be more healz and jibby jabby. Working out new rotations now. Thank you fellow Templars and Templarettes for staying united in our cause.

AfkNinja

SeptimusDova wrote: »

IF they fix just a few things it would make play easier.

This will require someone at ZOS to actually look at Templar....

SeptimusDova

I don't expect anyone at ZOS to do anything productive with Templar. Zenimax might want to think about what their next quarterly statement is going to look like. To much change too soon for the average player.

tplink3r1

Suru wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. It isn't "free" cc immunity. It is an extremely high damage skill, acts as a channel, and performs several hits very quickly which will drain enemy stamina very fast (4 hits per cast of about 1 second, each costing the same amount of stamina to mitigate as any other single hit attack with how block cost mechanics work). It also will proc any "on-hit" effects with one chance or effect per hit caused. If you take a look around the skill lines you can see some nice synergies with this bit . The knockback will also interrupt anyone trying to cast and prevents them from moving for a moment as they're in the air. Between the high dps, inherent synergy with on-hit effects, and moderate but still substantial CC in small-scale play in PVP (and non-impacting in large group fighting at all), I don't agree this change is needed at all, and would be a rather large net loss in the power of the skill to have it removed.

2. I was unable to encounter the "global cooldown" in any gameplay impacting form on the live servers to date, until recently. When purposefully trying to do so and mentioning in a guild chat I couldn't find it and asking if anyone knew if it was a real thing, I described how I was testing with Toppling and Explosive Charge. I have always activated the skill, and then as I landed in the animation and right as the actual damage effect was applied, would be hitting block followed by a basic weapon attack to then use another skill immediately afterwards. This optimized and properly timed method of play never runs into the cooldown issue. However, someone pointed out that (to me, counter-intuitively), most people are probably not and so I never had either and was fairly surprised at the insistence that the problem even existed in recent Templar threads. Upon then trying it that way, I found you could not activate another skill right off the bat like I had been, when not timing it properly.


3. The blazing Shards are rather high DPS and have a lot unique add-ins being one of the few high direct-damage ground targeted AOE's in the game, providing a targetable single-target crowd control on impact (disorient, which has no CC immunity, or a stun on the DoT version), and being able to substitute for a weapon-based AOE with how well they scale. Add in the Aedric Spear passive which has a 25% chance per tick of the DoT along with one on the initial impact, and the synergy for restoring a large chunk of magicka and stamina (on the disorient morph without DoT) or stamina (on the stun morph with ground DoT afterwards), and it's a very powerful skill with strong uses in both PvE and PvP.

4. Dark Flare eschews the instant proc chance for a higher damage scaling factor with character stats (at the same magicka and spellpower, you actually end up with a much higher resulting tooltip) and AOE heal debuff around the target on hit (fun trivia: this is a second, minimal-damage coefficient aoe hit that applies this... and so you can get double benefit from on-hit effects like Quick Siphon thanks to that ). It not only is one of the most powerful nukes in the game, but has the multi-hit factor, aoe heal debuff, and procs a 5% spellpower buff for anyone else near you, as well as yourself.

By contrast, Sorcerers have no benefit other than the instant proc chance, on the Crystal Fragments morph and instead of a multi-hit ability that does a very useful heal debuff, it does a stun (which isn't always ideal such as when someone is already under CC immunity from break-free for 8 seconds... longer than the proc allows you to instantly cast within (you have 6 seconds to use it)). It's a tradeoff as well since it scales worse with character stats by a low amount. Passive-wise, it provides a less-useful 3% spell critical chance for yourself and anyone near you, and a just-shy-of-being-good 8% maximum health heal (at 12% or so, it would be a factor to consider strong).

I see each skill as having pros and cons, while overall having similar power totals. That is what balance means , in my opinion.

5. I don't have any real input on Backlash and Power of the Light, but they are instant casts with secondary effects, and unless solo, nearly always (if not always) will reach their damage caps when used, which are very high tooltip values at a low resource cost, along with proccing the Dawn's Wrath passives. I don't think there's any need to raise it, but I also don't think there's any substantial case either way as to not raising it a mild amount as you suggested .

/two-cents

Thank you for putting these QQ templars in place Attorney.

Ill just add in my input

1. Jabs should give CC immunity after the channel if the enemy isnt holding block, but if he is, you are draining his stamina for free like attorney said.

2. The global cooldown is really stupid but goes by skill mechanics where you cannot activate a skill afterwards to prevent spam. They should make this skill a special case and also give it a stamina morph (PLEASE)

3.Blazing Spears will always be the better morph for AoE because of the 25% chance to proc burning light. If you are a magika build that is a 25% to proc a free 3~5k burning light every .5(?) seconds because of the DoT, PLUS it gives stamina back to your party. It already does amazing DPS, the BEST? no, but overall it is amazing with utility aswell.

4. No to an instant proc. It is like the magika wrecking blow that does more damage easily and heal debuffs IN AN AOE. I've been able to hit crazy numbers and DPS just using and going through the cast of Dark Flare over and over again.

5. Fine as is, It can crit, gg.

Templars can hit amazing numbers and when I first rolled one, I was so overwhelmed by what to put on my bar in pvp just for the utility. In pve the bar setup is much easier and can still contend with classes.

#whatattorneysaid

timidobserver wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Reading your Templar posts are always entertaing. You can, with a straight face, say that power of Dark Flare is remotely similar to Crystal fragments. It is impossible to land a dark flare on any half way decent pvper. The instant cast proc and quick projectile speed is worth infinitely more than any of the effects on dark flare even if they increased the damage by 50%.

Calling blazing spear blazing shards makes me wonder if you even play a Templar regularly. Another long flight time skill that no decent player should be hit single target with. It is certainly more useful than dark flare only because of the unblockable stun and passable aoe damage, but it is still weaker than many other aoes/ccs in the game due to the flight time, single target cc, and random targeting of the the cc.

Dark Flare has only a very slightly higher travel time per amount of distance covered. The travel speed affects how long it takes to land based on that. From closer ranges including in group fights, it will land on an enemy healer nearly as quickly as a Crystal Fragments cast. It is far from "impossible to land"... like most other facets of the game, it takes timing, the proper circumstance, and skill. As I said, additionally, the power of Dark Flare scales higher than Crystal Fragments with character stats by a moderate-to-low margin.


]I call skills what they are, as is convenient and makes which skill is being talked about clear. Some people called Radiant Oppression "Jesus Beam" regularly in chat, or TS. I call it "blazing shards" because it is the ground DoT variant. I call Luminous... just luminous . Quibbling over how someone refers to a skill's name is beyond nitpicking.

As to if I play a Templar regularly... if you as a long time Templar player are asking that, when you just stated you think the Shards' crowd control is "a random targeting of the cc", then that's a non-sequitur, whichever is the case or not. Half-experienced as you say you are... you still never realized that the crowd control effect goes to your currently focused target based on the crosshair (including tab target focusing to disambiguate when multiple enemies are inside of the same spot on the screen)? Shards is one of the highest damage AOE's, is ranged with ground targeting unlike the majority of all others, provides a strong CC effect and synergy. The higher flight time allows you to backload another skill to land at the same time: it isn't a downside, but simply a difference.

Before questioning whether someone is "qualified" in your opinion, as though they need anyone's permission to make their feedback as well as anyone else does, at least be forthcoming as to your own "qualifications" (quote-unquote).

It is completely unbelievable that you think Dark Flare similar in power to Crystal fragments and consider the dark flare flight time "slight" even though this "slight" flight time happens after you already went through the cast time. If you are fighting a dk or a shield user, you are going to dark flare yourself due to the long cast time plus the flight time making reacting to the skill easier. I can't decide if you just like to go against the popular opinion in order to prove people wrong or if you really believe that those two skills have similar power.

I did not question your qualification or permission to give your opinion. I did say that calling the skill blazing shards made me question whether you play a Templar regularly.

In a pvp scenario, darkflare will do more damge than frags on paper, since it powerful the second you cast (already has a higher tooltip) it and by the time the time its in the air you are almost done casting it (an empowered version). I will agree with the sentiment that it should have a faster projectile speed like frags, but frags is only ever powerful after you maybe empower it on an instant cast, otherwise hardcasting it is a joke and can roll dodge easily aswell. Frags just has CC and a better 1v1 ability over Flare, but PvP isnt always a 1v1 game.

Jabs is a knockback since launch.

Springt-Über-Zwerge

seriously best patch for magicka templars ever just nerfs in the notes but somehow im soloing everything in the severs and have no problems in pvp anymore

Kas

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

seriously best patch for magicka templars ever just nerfs in the notes but somehow im soloing everything in the severs and have no problems in pvp anymore

the -50% thing really works wonders. without getting bursted so easily, we can focus on many other things. i switched from 5 heavy or 5 light whitestrake's to 5 light whatever-i-like and it's doing wonders

Radburn

I've been enjoying my Templar in IC and its not due to any buffs. We've always had a strong skill set, and while some were weak the disparity between templar and other classes was due to other factors. Lowering TTK coupled with the new close quarters pvp in Imperial is letting the magicka Templar shine as a support class. The buff to light armour coupled with the fix to nirnhoned traits and the sharpened bug have had a massive impact on the class. 1.6 was hardest on magicka Templars due to the wide spread use of nirnhoned on armour and sharpened bug. I had many frustrating deaths in 1.6, however it forged me into a better player!

eliisra

I usually QQ about templars like mad, but have to admit this, I'm enjoying mine in IC.

Can effectively solo and roam by myself in PvP again, without dying in 2 seconds to stamina gankers. Really happy about that.

I dont have to play full defence any more, I can play actively like back in 1.5 and kill ***. That was unthinkable in 1.6, I always needed a group and even than I had no room to do anything but turtle up, block block clock, hide in Mist Form while searching for LoS spot. There was only so much you could do when one random stamina spam attack took half your health, while you had no escape and no mobility.

Overall changes to gameplay, makes templars so much stronger. Fight are longer, which really benefits the class that has lower burst and pretty terrible cc. The templar purify is also super useful now with the new improved snares from hell. Even the PvE elements mixed in IC benefits templars, the class was always master carebear. Corpses everywhere for Repentance

I do feel my magicka NB is still a hint better and more fun in IC. Easier to get kills and of course easier to escape with your stone stash. But I expect this to change when every starts running that godawful Shield Breaker set. My templar doesn't need to stack Ward + Harness, to survive. The NB sorta does.

lifefrombelowb14_ESO

Just out of curiosity, did the Templar class even get any useful endgame gear? Besides the basic willpower/agility stuff?

tinythinker

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

seriously best patch for magicka templars ever just nerfs in the notes but somehow im soloing everything in the severs and have no problems in pvp anymore

Kas wrote: »

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »

seriously best patch for magicka templars ever just nerfs in the notes but somehow im soloing everything in the severs and have no problems in pvp anymore

the -50% thing really works wonders. without getting bursted so easily, we can focus on many other things. i switched from 5 heavy or 5 light whitestrake's to 5 light whatever-i-like and it's doing wonders

Radburn wrote: »

I've been enjoying my Templar in IC and its not due to any buffs. We've always had a strong skill set, and while some were weak the disparity between templar and other classes was due to other factors. Lowering TTK coupled with the new close quarters pvp in Imperial is letting the magicka Templar shine as a support class. The buff to light armour coupled with the fix to nirnhoned traits and the sharpened bug have had a massive impact on the class. 1.6 was hardest on magicka Templars due to the wide spread use of nirnhoned on armour and sharpened bug. I had many frustrating deaths in 1.6, however it forged me into a better player!

eliisra wrote: »

I usually QQ about templars like mad, but have to admit this, I'm enjoying mine in IC.

Can effectively solo and roam by myself in PvP again, without dying in 2 seconds to stamina gankers. Really happy about that.

Glad to hear so many people are having fun in the new update with their magicka Templars! The close quarters tend to work better with melee range AoE and the lower damage definitely lets players not focus completely on defense.

My magicka Templar keeps dying in 3-6 seconds to 1-2 players in IC, though, and by their ranks my opponents seem to be fairly new to PvP (could be alts of more experienced players but I doubt it). The only character I can do IC with is my Nightblade. I know other Templars are having lots of success, too, so I am thinking it just isn't the class for me. Which is fine, not everything works for everyone.

Happy hunting Templars!

AngryNord

lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, did the Templar class even get any useful endgame gear? Besides the basic willpower/agility stuff?

"combat medic" or whatever they called the set seems geared towards cloth&stick Templars, at least... Whether it falls into the 'useful' cathegory is another thing

Kas

lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, did the Templar class even get any useful endgame gear? Besides the basic willpower/agility stuff?

spell power cure is very good but very annoying to farm

Alcast

I knew the dodgeroll and block nerf will not only affect Stamina chars. Now that magicka classes cannot roll out or simply block Sweeps/Jabs RIP them haaha

Lucky shieldbreaker is diverting QQ away from templars lol