That's it for Templars?

BugCollector

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

tinythinker

BugCollector wrote: »

That's it for Templars?

yee

asteldian

Don't forget Purifying Light to activate ultimate buff when it heals people that have the ultimate buff.

pkb16_ESO2

Blazing shield got double nerfed! Dont forget this.

Kaliki

People reported that Puncturing Sweep also got the double nerf in PvP.
And Radiant Oppression has also been fixed. 20 % less damage at full magicka and no more crits and only one templar can do execute damage. Now the ability is perfect, isn't it?

Kas

in combination with sinking the templar thread, i guess it's really time to switch classes. bye bye nice AR icon, hello there fries and box ranks

at least getting a bunch of V14's payed out in the CP department, I'll be sure to abuse the future fotm to it's fullest.

AbraXuSeXile

Glad i rerolled at rank 50.

timidobserver

Kaliki wrote: »

People reported that Puncturing Sweep also got the double nerf in PvP.
And Radiant Oppression has also been fixed. 20 % less damage at full magicka and no more crits and only one templar can do execute damage. Now the ability is perfect, isn't it?

Our stuff always gets trashed every update. Nerfs and then bugs resulting from the poor implementation of said nerfs and then more bugs from the unsuccessful implementation of the fixes for said bugs.

tinythinker

timidobserver wrote: »

Kaliki wrote: »

People reported that Puncturing Sweep also got the double nerf in PvP.
And Radiant Oppression has also been fixed. 20 % less damage at full magicka and no more crits and only one templar can do execute damage. Now the ability is perfect, isn't it?

Our stuff always gets trashed every update. Nerfs and then bugs resulting from the poor implementation of said nerfs and then more bugs from the unsuccessful implementation of the fixes for said bugs.

You got a few months of Jesus Beam. That's more than enough.

Now either respec for Stamplar or gear up as a healer and spam Rushed Ceremony.

timidobserver

tinythinker wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Kaliki wrote: »

People reported that Puncturing Sweep also got the double nerf in PvP.
And Radiant Oppression has also been fixed. 20 % less damage at full magicka and no more crits and only one templar can do execute damage. Now the ability is perfect, isn't it?

Our stuff always gets trashed every update. Nerfs and then bugs resulting from the poor implementation of said nerfs and then more bugs from the unsuccessful implementation of the fixes for said bugs.

You got a few months of Jesus Beam. That's more than enough.

Now either respec for Stamplar or gear up as a healer and spam Rushed Ceremony.

I might do that of next week's bugs caused by the new bugfixes don't break Rushed Ceremony and Stamplar.

BugCollector

It would be great if you'd finally leave a reply on this... @ZOS_GinaBruno

Attorneyatlawl

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. It isn't "free" cc immunity. It is an extremely high damage skill, acts as a channel, and performs several hits very quickly which will drain enemy stamina very fast (4 hits per cast of about 1 second, each costing the same amount of stamina to mitigate as any other single hit attack with how block cost mechanics work). It also will proc any "on-hit" effects with one chance or effect per hit caused. If you take a look around the skill lines you can see some nice synergies with this bit . The knockback will also interrupt anyone trying to cast and prevents them from moving for a moment as they're in the air. Between the high dps, inherent synergy with on-hit effects, and moderate but still substantial CC in small-scale play in PVP (and non-impacting in large group fighting at all), I don't agree this change is needed at all, and would be a rather large net loss in the power of the skill to have it removed.

2. I was unable to encounter the "global cooldown" in any gameplay impacting form on the live servers to date, until recently. When purposefully trying to do so and mentioning in a guild chat I couldn't find it and asking if anyone knew if it was a real thing, I described how I was testing with Toppling and Explosive Charge. I have always activated the skill, and then as I landed in the animation and right as the actual damage effect was applied, would be hitting block followed by a basic weapon attack to then use another skill immediately afterwards. This optimized and properly timed method of play never runs into the cooldown issue. However, someone pointed out that (to me, counter-intuitively), most people are probably not and so I never had either and was fairly surprised at the insistence that the problem even existed in recent Templar threads. Upon then trying it that way, I found you could not activate another skill right off the bat like I had been, when not timing it properly.


3. The blazing Shards are rather high DPS and have a lot unique add-ins being one of the few high direct-damage ground targeted AOE's in the game, providing a targetable single-target crowd control on impact (disorient, which has no CC immunity, or a stun on the DoT version), and being able to substitute for a weapon-based AOE with how well they scale. Add in the Aedric Spear passive which has a 25% chance per tick of the DoT along with one on the initial impact, and the synergy for restoring a large chunk of magicka and stamina (on the disorient morph without DoT) or stamina (on the stun morph with ground DoT afterwards), and it's a very powerful skill with strong uses in both PvE and PvP.

4. Dark Flare eschews the instant proc chance for a higher damage scaling factor with character stats (at the same magicka and spellpower, you actually end up with a much higher resulting tooltip) and AOE heal debuff around the target on hit (fun trivia: this is a second, minimal-damage coefficient aoe hit that applies this... and so you can get double benefit from on-hit effects like Quick Siphon thanks to that ). It not only is one of the most powerful nukes in the game, but has the multi-hit factor, aoe heal debuff, and procs a 5% spellpower buff for anyone else near you, as well as yourself.

By contrast, Sorcerers have no benefit other than the instant proc chance, on the Crystal Fragments morph and instead of a multi-hit ability that does a very useful heal debuff, it does a stun (which isn't always ideal such as when someone is already under CC immunity from break-free for 8 seconds... longer than the proc allows you to instantly cast within (you have 6 seconds to use it)). It's a tradeoff as well since it scales worse with character stats by a low amount. Passive-wise, it provides a less-useful 3% spell critical chance for yourself and anyone near you, and a just-shy-of-being-good 8% maximum health heal (at 12% or so, it would be a factor to consider strong).

I see each skill as having pros and cons, while overall having similar power totals. That is what balance means , in my opinion.

5. I don't have any real input on Backlash and Power of the Light, but they are instant casts with secondary effects, and unless solo, nearly always (if not always) will reach their damage caps when used, which are very high tooltip values at a low resource cost, along with proccing the Dawn's Wrath passives. I don't think there's any need to raise it, but I also don't think there's any substantial case either way as to not raising it a mild amount as you suggested .

/two-cents

BugCollector

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. It isn't "free" cc immunity. It is an extremely high damage skill, acts as a channel, and performs several hits very quickly which will drain enemy stamina very fast (4 hits per cast of about 1 second, each costing the same amount of stamina to mitigate as any other single hit attack with how block cost mechanics work). It also will proc any "on-hit" effects with one chance or effect per hit caused. If you take a look around the skill lines you can see some nice synergies with this bit . The knockback will also interrupt anyone trying to cast and prevents them from moving for a moment as they're in the air. Between the high dps, inherent synergy with on-hit effects, and moderate but still substantial CC in small-scale play in PVP (and non-impacting in large group fighting at all), I don't agree this change is needed at all, and would be a rather large net loss in the power of the skill to have it removed.

2. I was unable to encounter the "global cooldown" in any gameplay impacting form on the live servers to date, until recently. When purposefully trying to do so and mentioning in a guild chat I couldn't find it and asking if anyone knew if it was a real thing, I described how I was testing with Toppling and Explosive Charge. I have always activated the skill, and then as I landed in the animation and right as the actual damage effect was applied, would be hitting block followed by a basic weapon attack to then use another skill immediately afterwards. This optimized and properly timed method of play never runs into the cooldown issue. However, someone pointed out that (to me, counter-intuitively), most people are probably not and so I never had either and was fairly surprised at the insistence that the problem even existed in recent Templar threads. Upon then trying it that way, I found you could not activate another skill right off the bat like I had been, when not timing it properly.


3. The blazing Shards are rather high DPS and have a lot unique add-ins being one of the few high direct-damage ground targeted AOE's in the game, providing a targetable single-target crowd control on impact (disorient, which has no CC immunity, or a stun on the DoT version), and being able to substitute for a weapon-based AOE with how well they scale. Add in the Aedric Spear passive which has a 25% chance per tick of the DoT along with one on the initial impact, and the synergy for restoring a large chunk of magicka and stamina (on the disorient morph without DoT) or stamina (on the stun morph with ground DoT afterwards), and it's a very powerful skill with strong uses in both PvE and PvP.

4. Dark Flare eschews the instant proc chance for a higher damage scaling factor with character stats (at the same magicka and spellpower, you actually end up with a much higher resulting tooltip) and AOE heal debuff around the target on hit (fun trivia: this is a second, minimal-damage coefficient aoe hit that applies this... and so you can get double benefit from on-hit effects like Quick Siphon thanks to that ). It not only is one of the most powerful nukes in the game, but has the multi-hit factor, aoe heal debuff, and procs a 5% spellpower buff for anyone else near you, as well as yourself.

By contrast, Sorcerers have no benefit other than the instant proc chance, on the Crystal Fragments morph and instead of a multi-hit ability that does a very useful heal debuff, it does a stun (which isn't always ideal such as when someone is already under CC immunity from break-free for 8 seconds... longer than the proc allows you to instantly cast within (you have 6 seconds to use it)). It's a tradeoff as well since it scales worse with character stats by a low amount. Passive-wise, it provides a less-useful 3% spell critical chance for yourself and anyone near you, and a just-shy-of-being-good 8% maximum health heal (at 12% or so, it would be a factor to consider strong).

I see each skill as having pros and cons, while overall having similar power totals. That is what balance means , in my opinion.

5. I don't have any real input on Backlash and Power of the Light, but they are instant casts with secondary effects, and unless solo, nearly always (if not always) will reach their damage caps when used, which are very high tooltip values at a low resource cost, along with proccing the Dawn's Wrath passives. I don't think there's any need to raise it, but I also don't think there's any substantial case either way as to not raising it a mild amount as you suggested .

/two-cents

1. I know how the spell works
2. Insightful
3. It could use more damage. It's lacking behind on other aoe class skills.
4. I would much rather have a high damage, high speed, knockdown projectile such as Frags instead of a high damage but low speed and no instant cast chance projectile.
5. Thanks

hedna123b14_ESO

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. Sure
2. Sure
3. No need...hits plenty hard plus the benefits to stam users make this skill amazing...
4. No need, good as is...a well geared templar is pulling 21k+ with just spamming darkflare...
5. YES YES and YES
6. Also what i would suggest is to make our dots worth casting...as it stands highest damage is from Darkflare spam and Radiant execute...I would love to see dots and rotations...would love to see a rotation involving vamp bane backlash (improved obv) and puncturing sweep...

BugCollector

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. Sure
2. Sure
3. No need...hits plenty hard plus the benefits to stam users make this skill amazing...
4. No need, good as is...a well geared templar is pulling 21k+ with just spamming darkflare...
5. YES YES and YES
6. Also what i would suggest is to make our dots worth casting...as it stands highest damage is from Darkflare spam and Radiant execute...I would love to see dots and rotations...would love to see a rotation involving vamp bane backlash (improved obv) and puncturing sweep...

Have you ever tried to hit someone with Dark Flare? 75% you'll miss, or either your opponent is a total noob.

hedna123b14_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. It isn't "free" cc immunity. It is an extremely high damage skill, acts as a channel, and performs several hits very quickly which will drain enemy stamina very fast (4 hits per cast of about 1 second, each costing the same amount of stamina to mitigate as any other single hit attack with how block cost mechanics work). It also will proc any "on-hit" effects with one chance or effect per hit caused. If you take a look around the skill lines you can see some nice synergies with this bit . The knockback will also interrupt anyone trying to cast and prevents them from moving for a moment as they're in the air. Between the high dps, inherent synergy with on-hit effects, and moderate but still substantial CC in small-scale play in PVP (and non-impacting in large group fighting at all), I don't agree this change is needed at all, and would be a rather large net loss in the power of the skill to have it removed.

2. I was unable to encounter the "global cooldown" in any gameplay impacting form on the live servers to date, until recently. When purposefully trying to do so and mentioning in a guild chat I couldn't find it and asking if anyone knew if it was a real thing, I described how I was testing with Toppling and Explosive Charge. I have always activated the skill, and then as I landed in the animation and right as the actual damage effect was applied, would be hitting block followed by a basic weapon attack to then use another skill immediately afterwards. This optimized and properly timed method of play never runs into the cooldown issue. However, someone pointed out that (to me, counter-intuitively), most people are probably not and so I never had either and was fairly surprised at the insistence that the problem even existed in recent Templar threads. Upon then trying it that way, I found you could not activate another skill right off the bat like I had been, when not timing it properly.


3. The blazing Shards are rather high DPS and have a lot unique add-ins being one of the few high direct-damage ground targeted AOE's in the game, providing a targetable single-target crowd control on impact (disorient, which has no CC immunity, or a stun on the DoT version), and being able to substitute for a weapon-based AOE with how well they scale. Add in the Aedric Spear passive which has a 25% chance per tick of the DoT along with one on the initial impact, and the synergy for restoring a large chunk of magicka and stamina (on the disorient morph without DoT) or stamina (on the stun morph with ground DoT afterwards), and it's a very powerful skill with strong uses in both PvE and PvP.

4. Dark Flare eschews the instant proc chance for a higher damage scaling factor with character stats (at the same magicka and spellpower, you actually end up with a much higher resulting tooltip) and AOE heal debuff around the target on hit (fun trivia: this is a second, minimal-damage coefficient aoe hit that applies this... and so you can get double benefit from on-hit effects like Quick Siphon thanks to that ). It not only is one of the most powerful nukes in the game, but has the multi-hit factor, aoe heal debuff, and procs a 5% spellpower buff for anyone else near you, as well as yourself.

By contrast, Sorcerers have no benefit other than the instant proc chance, on the Crystal Fragments morph and instead of a multi-hit ability that does a very useful heal debuff, it does a stun (which isn't always ideal such as when someone is already under CC immunity from break-free for 8 seconds... longer than the proc allows you to instantly cast within (you have 6 seconds to use it)). It's a tradeoff as well since it scales worse with character stats by a low amount. Passive-wise, it provides a less-useful 3% spell critical chance for yourself and anyone near you, and a just-shy-of-being-good 8% maximum health heal (at 12% or so, it would be a factor to consider strong).

I see each skill as having pros and cons, while overall having similar power totals. That is what balance means , in my opinion.

5. I don't have any real input on Backlash and Power of the Light, but they are instant casts with secondary effects, and unless solo, nearly always (if not always) will reach their damage caps when used, which are very high tooltip values at a low resource cost, along with proccing the Dawn's Wrath passives. I don't think there's any need to raise it, but I also don't think there's any substantial case either way as to not raising it a mild amount as you suggested .

/two-cents

Great points attorney, however I strongly disagree with #5. Purifying Light does not crit AND (which is simply ridiculous) is COMPLETELY UNAFFECTED by CP...as it stands now to include it into a rotation would be a DPS loss..I doubt therefore, that it is working as intended...what it needs to be viable and part of a rotation is a higher cap, scaling with CP and the ability to crit...

asteldian

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. It isn't "free" cc immunity. It is an extremely high damage skill, acts as a channel, and performs several hits very quickly which will drain enemy stamina very fast (4 hits per cast of about 1 second, each costing the same amount of stamina to mitigate as any other single hit attack with how block cost mechanics work). It also will proc any "on-hit" effects with one chance or effect per hit caused. If you take a look around the skill lines you can see some nice synergies with this bit . The knockback will also interrupt anyone trying to cast and prevents them from moving for a moment as they're in the air. Between the high dps, inherent synergy with on-hit effects, and moderate but still substantial CC in small-scale play in PVP (and non-impacting in large group fighting at all), I don't agree this change is needed at all, and would be a rather large net loss in the power of the skill to have it removed.

2. I was unable to encounter the "global cooldown" in any gameplay impacting form on the live servers to date, until recently. When purposefully trying to do so and mentioning in a guild chat I couldn't find it and asking if anyone knew if it was a real thing, I described how I was testing with Toppling and Explosive Charge. I have always activated the skill, and then as I landed in the animation and right as the actual damage effect was applied, would be hitting block followed by a basic weapon attack to then use another skill immediately afterwards. This optimized and properly timed method of play never runs into the cooldown issue. However, someone pointed out that (to me, counter-intuitively), most people are probably not and so I never had either and was fairly surprised at the insistence that the problem even existed in recent Templar threads. Upon then trying it that way, I found you could not activate another skill right off the bat like I had been, when not timing it properly.


3. The blazing Shards are rather high DPS and have a lot unique add-ins being one of the few high direct-damage ground targeted AOE's in the game, providing a targetable single-target crowd control on impact (disorient, which has no CC immunity, or a stun on the DoT version), and being able to substitute for a weapon-based AOE with how well they scale. Add in the Aedric Spear passive which has a 25% chance per tick of the DoT along with one on the initial impact, and the synergy for restoring a large chunk of magicka and stamina (on the disorient morph without DoT) or stamina (on the stun morph with ground DoT afterwards), and it's a very powerful skill with strong uses in both PvE and PvP.

4. Dark Flare eschews the instant proc chance for a higher damage scaling factor with character stats (at the same magicka and spellpower, you actually end up with a much higher resulting tooltip) and AOE heal debuff around the target on hit (fun trivia: this is a second, minimal-damage coefficient aoe hit that applies this... and so you can get double benefit from on-hit effects like Quick Siphon thanks to that ). It not only is one of the most powerful nukes in the game, but has the multi-hit factor, aoe heal debuff, and procs a 5% spellpower buff for anyone else near you, as well as yourself.

By contrast, Sorcerers have no benefit other than the instant proc chance, on the Crystal Fragments morph and instead of a multi-hit ability that does a very useful heal debuff, it does a stun (which isn't always ideal such as when someone is already under CC immunity from break-free for 8 seconds... longer than the proc allows you to instantly cast within (you have 6 seconds to use it)). It's a tradeoff as well since it scales worse with character stats by a low amount. Passive-wise, it provides a less-useful 3% spell critical chance for yourself and anyone near you, and a just-shy-of-being-good 8% maximum health heal (at 12% or so, it would be a factor to consider strong).

I see each skill as having pros and cons, while overall having similar power totals. That is what balance means , in my opinion.

5. I don't have any real input on Backlash and Power of the Light, but they are instant casts with secondary effects, and unless solo, nearly always (if not always) will reach their damage caps when used, which are very high tooltip values at a low resource cost, along with proccing the Dawn's Wrath passives. I don't think there's any need to raise it, but I also don't think there's any substantial case either way as to not raising it a mild amount as you suggested .

/two-cents

1) removing the cc would in no way weaken the skill. It is a find damage skill for sure, but given the feeble cc caused, it is more harm than good. Causing cc immunity is *** in both PvP and pve, the benefits are near non existant compared to the negatives. Either the cc caused should be a proper duration or it should be removed. Currently it is a really *** version of crushing shock tacked on to a melee skill. If I want to interrupt I will do so.

2) that is not the proper way to use the skill. Animation cancelling via block or interrupts is already a BS mechanic that plagues the game in order to go through skills faster. It is bad enough it is used in many situation to cheat animations. The fact this skill currently actually goes a step further and actively screws you over by not cancelling is unacceptable and *** poor design.

3) I agree. Shards is fine, it is solid dps and not even the main or only aoe available to us. If people want stronger aoe then use solar barrage as intended.

4) Also agree. Dark Flare is a strong skill, unlike Sorcs with frags, it can be used as the primary spam skill for a solid dps build. Projectile is silly slow though.

5) the arguement for improvement is simply that without crits applying, the spell simply doesn't do enough damage to make it worth casting instead of another of your main dps skill. That said, my issue with the spell is that Purifying Light is not applying ultimate buff even when meeting the criteria (healing someone who is injured and has the buff)

timidobserver

@Attorneyatlawl
Reading your Templar posts is always entertaing. You can, with a straight face, say that power of Dark Flare is remotely similar to Crystal fragments. It is impossible to land a dark flare on any half way decent pvper. The instant cast proc and quick projectile speed is worth infinitely more than any of the effects on dark flare even if they increased the damage by 50%.

Calling blazing spear blazing shards makes me wonder if you even play a Templar regularly. Another long flight time skill that no decent player should be hit single target with. It is certainly more useful than dark flare only because of the unblockable stun and passable aoe damage, but it is still weaker than many other aoes/ccs in the game due to the flight time, single target cc, and random targeting of the the cc.

Kaliki

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

1. It isn't "free" cc immunity. It is an extremely high damage skill, acts as a channel, and performs several hits very quickly which will drain enemy stamina very fast (4 hits per cast of about 1 second, each costing the same amount of stamina to mitigate as any other single hit attack with how block cost mechanics work). It also will proc any "on-hit" effects with one chance or effect per hit caused. If you take a look around the skill lines you can see some nice synergies with this bit . The knockback will also interrupt anyone trying to cast and prevents them from moving for a moment as they're in the air. Between the high dps, inherent synergy with on-hit effects, and moderate but still substantial CC in small-scale play in PVP (and non-impacting in large group fighting at all), I don't agree this change is needed at all, and would be a rather large net loss in the power of the skill to have it removed.

No one is saying it is not a good damaging ability. But I want to be able to decide when I CC someone and when not. And I do not want to have to decide between dealing damage or CCing. If I want to CC somebody I have my spear that offers a knockdown and/or stun, if I want to stop someone from casting I have Crushing Shock, Total Dark or even Toppling Charge.
For me, having a less-than-one-second CC attached to my main damaging ability is an inconvenience in PvP.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

2. I was unable to encounter the "global cooldown" in any gameplay impacting form on the live servers to date, until recently. When purposefully trying to do so and mentioning in a guild chat I couldn't find it and asking if anyone knew if it was a real thing, I described how I was testing with Toppling and Explosive Charge. I have always activated the skill, and then as I landed in the animation and right as the actual damage effect was applied, would be hitting block followed by a basic weapon attack to then use another skill immediately afterwards. This optimized and properly timed method of play never runs into the cooldown issue. However, someone pointed out that (to me, counter-intuitively), most people are probably not and so I never had either and was fairly surprised at the insistence that the problem even existed in recent Templar threads. Upon then trying it that way, I found you could not activate another skill right off the bat like I had been, when not timing it properly.

This is basically the same as with Breath of Life. Sure, I can cast Breath of Life instantly by cancelling the animation by blocking. So you are saying because you can block-cancel overly long Templar animations it is ok for Templars to have such clunky "instant" spells?

You are right about Dark Flare, it is a powerful nuke, only the slow travel time of the projectile hurts in PvP. Its not only so slow that it is hard to hit someone with it, but even if it hits, it is a projectile and very visible - so try using it on a DK or 1h+shield wearer...

The problem with Backlash at the moment is that it only scales with Magicka/Stamina, not with sp or wd. So in the current meta its damage is a bit low, this might change in IC.
When I tried going for more magicka I got the spell to around 19500 damage, but in my trial gear it does around 16-17k. It may seem like a lot, but it is one burst every 7.2 seconds. Considering this cannot crit and considering that many players of other classes can reach 22k dps in short burst fights, it seems a bit lacking.

Attorneyatlawl

timidobserver wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Reading your Templar posts are always entertaing. You can, with a straight face, say that power of Dark Flare is remotely similar to Crystal fragments. It is impossible to land a dark flare on any half way decent pvper. The instant cast proc and quick projectile speed is worth infinitely more than any of the effects on dark flare even if they increased the damage by 50%.

Calling blazing spear blazing shards makes me wonder if you even play a Templar regularly. Another long flight time skill that no decent player should be hit single target with. It is certainly more useful than dark flare only because of the unblockable stun and passable aoe damage, but it is still weaker than many other aoes/ccs in the game due to the flight time, single target cc, and random targeting of the the cc.

Dark Flare has only a very slightly higher travel time per amount of distance covered. The travel speed affects how long it takes to land based on that. From closer ranges including in group fights, it will land on an enemy healer nearly as quickly as a Crystal Fragments cast. It is far from "impossible to land"... like most other facets of the game, it takes timing, the proper circumstance, and skill. As I said, additionally, the power of Dark Flare scales higher than Crystal Fragments with character stats by a moderate-to-low margin.


]I call skills what they are, as is convenient and makes which skill is being talked about clear. Some people called Radiant Oppression "Jesus Beam" regularly in chat, or TS. I call it "blazing shards" because it is the ground DoT variant. I call Luminous... just luminous . Quibbling over how someone refers to a skill's name is beyond nitpicking.

As to if I play a Templar regularly... if you as a long time Templar player are asking that, when you just stated you think the Shards' crowd control is "a random targeting of the cc", then that's a non-sequitur, whichever is the case or not. Half-experienced as you say you are... you still never realized that the crowd control effect goes to your currently focused target based on the crosshair (including tab target focusing to disambiguate when multiple enemies are inside of the same spot on the screen)? Shards is one of the highest damage AOE's, is ranged with ground targeting unlike the majority of all others, provides a strong CC effect and synergy. The higher flight time allows you to backload another skill to land at the same time: it isn't a downside, but simply a difference.

Before questioning whether someone is "qualified" in your opinion, as though they need anyone's permission to make their feedback as well as anyone else does, at least be forthcoming as to your own "qualifications" (quote-unquote).

BugCollector

If Dark Flare isn't getting a chance to instant cast, then it should atleast get a 0.8 seconds cast time together with a 200% speed increase.

Kaliki

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

you still never realized that the crowd control effect goes to your currently focused target based on the crosshair (including tab target focusing to disambiguate when multiple enemies are inside of the same spot on the screen)? [/b]Shards is one of the highest damage AOE's, is ranged with ground targeting unlike the majority of all others, provides a strong CC effect and synergy. The higher flight time allows you to backload another skill to land at the same time: it isn't a downside, but simply a difference.

Here comes the talking down to less leet players than you again...
It is less than intuitive that a ground based aoe's stun applies to a target in your focus. How are you able to figure this out if not by chance? Or by researching the ability and testing things you cannot even think of?
But if you cannot see that the long flight time is an issue if you actually want to hit a moving target i.e. a player then I have not much more to say.

Joy_Division

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. It isn't "free" cc immunity. It is an extremely high damage skill, acts as a channel, and performs several hits very quickly which will drain enemy stamina very fast (4 hits per cast of about 1 second, each costing the same amount of stamina to mitigate as any other single hit attack with how block cost mechanics work). It also will proc any "on-hit" effects with one chance or effect per hit caused. If you take a look around the skill lines you can see some nice synergies with this bit . The knockback will also interrupt anyone trying to cast and prevents them from moving for a moment as they're in the air. Between the high dps, inherent synergy with on-hit effects, and moderate but still substantial CC in small-scale play in PVP (and non-impacting in large group fighting at all), I don't agree this change is needed at all, and would be a rather large net loss in the power of the skill to have it removed.

2. I was unable to encounter the "global cooldown" in any gameplay impacting form on the live servers to date, until recently. When purposefully trying to do so and mentioning in a guild chat I couldn't find it and asking if anyone knew if it was a real thing, I described how I was testing with Toppling and Explosive Charge. I have always activated the skill, and then as I landed in the animation and right as the actual damage effect was applied, would be hitting block followed by a basic weapon attack to then use another skill immediately afterwards. This optimized and properly timed method of play never runs into the cooldown issue. However, someone pointed out that (to me, counter-intuitively), most people are probably not and so I never had either and was fairly surprised at the insistence that the problem even existed in recent Templar threads. Upon then trying it that way, I found you could not activate another skill right off the bat like I had been, when not timing it properly.


3. The blazing Shards are rather high DPS and have a lot unique add-ins being one of the few high direct-damage ground targeted AOE's in the game, providing a targetable single-target crowd control on impact (disorient, which has no CC immunity, or a stun on the DoT version), and being able to substitute for a weapon-based AOE with how well they scale. Add in the Aedric Spear passive which has a 25% chance per tick of the DoT along with one on the initial impact, and the synergy for restoring a large chunk of magicka and stamina (on the disorient morph without DoT) or stamina (on the stun morph with ground DoT afterwards), and it's a very powerful skill with strong uses in both PvE and PvP.

4. Dark Flare eschews the instant proc chance for a higher damage scaling factor with character stats (at the same magicka and spellpower, you actually end up with a much higher resulting tooltip) and AOE heal debuff around the target on hit (fun trivia: this is a second, minimal-damage coefficient aoe hit that applies this... and so you can get double benefit from on-hit effects like Quick Siphon thanks to that ). It not only is one of the most powerful nukes in the game, but has the multi-hit factor, aoe heal debuff, and procs a 5% spellpower buff for anyone else near you, as well as yourself.

By contrast, Sorcerers have no benefit other than the instant proc chance, on the Crystal Fragments morph and instead of a multi-hit ability that does a very useful heal debuff, it does a stun (which isn't always ideal such as when someone is already under CC immunity from break-free for 8 seconds... longer than the proc allows you to instantly cast within (you have 6 seconds to use it)). It's a tradeoff as well since it scales worse with character stats by a low amount. Passive-wise, it provides a less-useful 3% spell critical chance for yourself and anyone near you, and a just-shy-of-being-good 8% maximum health heal (at 12% or so, it would be a factor to consider strong).

I see each skill as having pros and cons, while overall having similar power totals. That is what balance means , in my opinion.

5. I don't have any real input on Backlash and Power of the Light, but they are instant casts with secondary effects, and unless solo, nearly always (if not always) will reach their damage caps when used, which are very high tooltip values at a low resource cost, along with proccing the Dawn's Wrath passives. I don't think there's any need to raise it, but I also don't think there's any substantial case either way as to not raising it a mild amount as you suggested .

/two-cents

1. At issue here is the knockback, not the other excellent applications of the skill. I agree it's not free CC immunity, but it's certainly in the bargain bin when compared to other CCs in the game.
2. We should not have to animation cancel to have skills function properly.
3. Agree
4. Agree with an insta-proc this would be too strong. As for the relative strength between Crystal Fragments and Dark Flare, in PvP the insta-proc ability + stun of Frags makes it *much* more dangerous. The last time I got killed by dark flare was ... I don't remember. I actually use dark flare and do kill people with it occasionally, but it is very cumbersome to use against good opponents.
5. Their damage is fine, the secondary effects are lacking.

BugCollector

BugCollector wrote: »

If Dark Flare isn't getting a chance to instant cast, then it should atleast get a 0.8 seconds cast time together with a 200% speed increase.

+ if you like this solution

cazlonb16_ESO

Funny how some people always refer to Dark Flare spam as something that would fix all the Templar dps and burst issues. I can't even remember the last time I've seen anyone use it at all in PvP, much less spam it or appear on my death recap.

As so many other Templar abilities, it is only situationally useful

BugCollector

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Funny how some people always refer to Dark Flare spam as something that would fix all the Templar dps and burst issues. I can't even remember the last time I've seen anyone use it at all in PvP, much less spam it or appear on my death recap.

As so many other Templar abilities, it is only situationally useful

Yes, that's why it needs changes. It should be a bread and butter skill for Templar casters, but not as it is right now.

tplink3r1

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

BugCollector wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. It isn't "free" cc immunity. It is an extremely high damage skill, acts as a channel, and performs several hits very quickly which will drain enemy stamina very fast (4 hits per cast of about 1 second, each costing the same amount of stamina to mitigate as any other single hit attack with how block cost mechanics work). It also will proc any "on-hit" effects with one chance or effect per hit caused. If you take a look around the skill lines you can see some nice synergies with this bit . The knockback will also interrupt anyone trying to cast and prevents them from moving for a moment as they're in the air. Between the high dps, inherent synergy with on-hit effects, and moderate but still substantial CC in small-scale play in PVP (and non-impacting in large group fighting at all), I don't agree this change is needed at all, and would be a rather large net loss in the power of the skill to have it removed.

2. I was unable to encounter the "global cooldown" in any gameplay impacting form on the live servers to date, until recently. When purposefully trying to do so and mentioning in a guild chat I couldn't find it and asking if anyone knew if it was a real thing, I described how I was testing with Toppling and Explosive Charge. I have always activated the skill, and then as I landed in the animation and right as the actual damage effect was applied, would be hitting block followed by a basic weapon attack to then use another skill immediately afterwards. This optimized and properly timed method of play never runs into the cooldown issue. However, someone pointed out that (to me, counter-intuitively), most people are probably not and so I never had either and was fairly surprised at the insistence that the problem even existed in recent Templar threads. Upon then trying it that way, I found you could not activate another skill right off the bat like I had been, when not timing it properly.


3. The blazing Shards are rather high DPS and have a lot unique add-ins being one of the few high direct-damage ground targeted AOE's in the game, providing a targetable single-target crowd control on impact (disorient, which has no CC immunity, or a stun on the DoT version), and being able to substitute for a weapon-based AOE with how well they scale. Add in the Aedric Spear passive which has a 25% chance per tick of the DoT along with one on the initial impact, and the synergy for restoring a large chunk of magicka and stamina (on the disorient morph without DoT) or stamina (on the stun morph with ground DoT afterwards), and it's a very powerful skill with strong uses in both PvE and PvP.

4. Dark Flare eschews the instant proc chance for a higher damage scaling factor with character stats (at the same magicka and spellpower, you actually end up with a much higher resulting tooltip) and AOE heal debuff around the target on hit (fun trivia: this is a second, minimal-damage coefficient aoe hit that applies this... and so you can get double benefit from on-hit effects like Quick Siphon thanks to that ). It not only is one of the most powerful nukes in the game, but has the multi-hit factor, aoe heal debuff, and procs a 5% spellpower buff for anyone else near you, as well as yourself.

By contrast, Sorcerers have no benefit other than the instant proc chance, on the Crystal Fragments morph and instead of a multi-hit ability that does a very useful heal debuff, it does a stun (which isn't always ideal such as when someone is already under CC immunity from break-free for 8 seconds... longer than the proc allows you to instantly cast within (you have 6 seconds to use it)). It's a tradeoff as well since it scales worse with character stats by a low amount. Passive-wise, it provides a less-useful 3% spell critical chance for yourself and anyone near you, and a just-shy-of-being-good 8% maximum health heal (at 12% or so, it would be a factor to consider strong).

I see each skill as having pros and cons, while overall having similar power totals. That is what balance means , in my opinion.

5. I don't have any real input on Backlash and Power of the Light, but they are instant casts with secondary effects, and unless solo, nearly always (if not always) will reach their damage caps when used, which are very high tooltip values at a low resource cost, along with proccing the Dawn's Wrath passives. I don't think there's any need to raise it, but I also don't think there's any substantial case either way as to not raising it a mild amount as you suggested .

/two-cents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kb3lNjEnAI
The problem is its long animation after the impact, not a GCD.
Note that the video is from 2 months ago, but the animation still the same as in 2.1 PTS.

Attorneyatlawl

Kaliki wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

you still never realized that the crowd control effect goes to your currently focused target based on the crosshair (including tab target focusing to disambiguate when multiple enemies are inside of the same spot on the screen)? [/b]Shards is one of the highest damage AOE's, is ranged with ground targeting unlike the majority of all others, provides a strong CC effect and synergy. The higher flight time allows you to backload another skill to land at the same time: it isn't a downside, but simply a difference.

Here comes the talking down to less leet players than you again...
It is less than intuitive that a ground based aoe's stun applies to a target in your focus. How are you able to figure this out if not by chance? Or by researching the ability and testing things you cannot even think of?
But if you cannot see that the long flight time is an issue if you actually want to hit a moving target i.e. a player then I have not much more to say.

I don't disagree... but I also have for nearly the entire time I've played this game, advocated UI improvements so that unintuitive gameplay nuances like that are readily known by everyone playing, rather than only people who have taken an unusually high amount of time and diligence in testing most anything they could think of, when in most games that isn't needed at all, and theorycrafting is more about crunching math and practicality than it is here. Don't get me wrong at all in saying the mechanic is there, meant that your average player should have known about it.

The topic of the UI and gameplay opaqueness is something I feel very strongly about... so much so, that instead of linking multiple helpful guides in my signature without making it obscenely long, I have made two of the three in there about that exact !

My remark as to that was in the context of who I replied to, as far as stating essentially that he is an "authority" on Templars and my posts are "entertaining" as if they were made completely uninformed. If you act like an expert on a subject, it would be expected you'd know the lower level mechanics and details on it . Nothing here has anything to do with "talking down" to anyone else. Just as the OP posted his concerns, I wanted to chip in my thoughts, too: this is a public feedback forum, not an exclusive club of who's allowed to.

tplink3r1

Backlash is already a VERY strong ability for PvP, i don't think it needs any improvement at all.

Attorneyatlawl

BugCollector wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Funny how some people always refer to Dark Flare spam as something that would fix all the Templar dps and burst issues. I can't even remember the last time I've seen anyone use it at all in PvP, much less spam it or appear on my death recap.

As so many other Templar abilities, it is only situationally useful

Yes, that's why it needs changes. It should be a bread and butter skill for Templar casters, but not as it is right now.

It is, in some PVE cases. In PVP, like everything in the entire game, it's situational: not without use, but there is only a short list out of the hundreds of skills/passives in the game that you could call a "bread and butter" one and have virtually everyone agree on it. An example of that, would be Retreating Maneuvers in PVP .

timidobserver

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

@Attorneyatlawl
Reading your Templar posts are always entertaing. You can, with a straight face, say that power of Dark Flare is remotely similar to Crystal fragments. It is impossible to land a dark flare on any half way decent pvper. The instant cast proc and quick projectile speed is worth infinitely more than any of the effects on dark flare even if they increased the damage by 50%.

Calling blazing spear blazing shards makes me wonder if you even play a Templar regularly. Another long flight time skill that no decent player should be hit single target with. It is certainly more useful than dark flare only because of the unblockable stun and passable aoe damage, but it is still weaker than many other aoes/ccs in the game due to the flight time, single target cc, and random targeting of the the cc.

Dark Flare has only a very slightly higher travel time per amount of distance covered. The travel speed affects how long it takes to land based on that. From closer ranges including in group fights, it will land on an enemy healer nearly as quickly as a Crystal Fragments cast. It is far from "impossible to land"... like most other facets of the game, it takes timing, the proper circumstance, and skill. As I said, additionally, the power of Dark Flare scales higher than Crystal Fragments with character stats by a moderate-to-low margin.


]I call skills what they are, as is convenient and makes which skill is being talked about clear. Some people called Radiant Oppression "Jesus Beam" regularly in chat, or TS. I call it "blazing shards" because it is the ground DoT variant. I call Luminous... just luminous . Quibbling over how someone refers to a skill's name is beyond nitpicking.

As to if I play a Templar regularly... if you as a long time Templar player are asking that, when you just stated you think the Shards' crowd control is "a random targeting of the cc", then that's a non-sequitur, whichever is the case or not. Half-experienced as you say you are... you still never realized that the crowd control effect goes to your currently focused target based on the crosshair (including tab target focusing to disambiguate when multiple enemies are inside of the same spot on the screen)? Shards is one of the highest damage AOE's, is ranged with ground targeting unlike the majority of all others, provides a strong CC effect and synergy. The higher flight time allows you to backload another skill to land at the same time: it isn't a downside, but simply a difference.

Before questioning whether someone is "qualified" in your opinion, as though they need anyone's permission to make their feedback as well as anyone else does, at least be forthcoming as to your own "qualifications" (quote-unquote).

It is completely unbelievable that you think Dark Flare similar in power to Crystal fragments and consider the dark flare flight time "slight" even though this "slight" flight time happens after you already went through the cast time. If you are fighting a dk or a shield user, you are going to dark flare yourself due to the long cast time plus the flight time making reacting to the skill easier. I can't decide if you just like to go against the popular opinion in order to prove people wrong or if you really believe that those two skills have similar power.

Jesus Beam is a commonly used comedic description of the skill based on the common belief that the skill is overpowered. Blazing Shards is an baseless, uncommon phrase used by one guy.

There are lots of things I don't know. If what you are saying is true on the tab targeting, it still isn't very helpful with hitting a single target unless you are just spamming it into a big group of people. If a NB, Sorc, or Dk wants me cc'd it is going to happen. It is relatively easy to avoid all Templar ccs. Block the charge and move put of the lame duck(blazing spear) slowly meandering toward you.

I did not question your qualification or permission to give your opinion. I did say that calling the skill blazing shards made me question whether you play a Templar regularly.