I'm so tired of this qqing about Hardened Ward scaling of Magicka. That's the very idea of it and is good as it is.
Seriously, are you people not able to understand ? Or can't you understand ?
Sorcerer is meant to be a magicka based class. Each class offers different playstyles. Hardened Ward is meant for a Magicka playstyle, but there are Sorcerer builds without Hardened Ward.
A Templars shield is meant for tanks, who have high health and HIGHLY benefit from their health based shield (same goes for DK) And blazing shield also increases the damage based on its strenght. So dont tell me, Templars dont benefit from being tanky and having damage either.
But if you play a Templar Healer, you aren't even supposed to have this strong shield, because you have insane burst heals. Having both, strong heals AND a strong shield is OP and shouldn't be possible. A Dragonknight could have might shields, when he uses healing ward, Harness and his class shield, combined with a strong self heal that gets boosted by his shield. And a DK, can reach muuuuch higher damage output than a Sorcerer. Get creative and come out of your bubble
And now finally come to recognize this and get the very idea of classes, until you start talking about this nonsense. And thanks for qqing, so that any diversity in this game gets destroyed, thanks to you not willing to learn and adapt. Thank you
I'm so tired of this qqing about Hardened Ward scaling of Magicka. That's the very idea of it and is good as it is.
Seriously, are you people not able to understand ? Or can't you understand ?
Sorcerer is meant to be a magicka based class. Each class offers different playstyles. Hardened Ward is meant for a Magicka playstyle, but there are Sorcerer builds without Hardened Ward.
A Templars shield is meant for tanks, who have high health and HIGHLY benefit from their health based shield (same goes for DK) And blazing shield also increases the damage based on its strenght. So dont tell me, Templars dont benefit from being tanky and having damage either.
But if you play a Templar Healer, you aren't even supposed to have this strong shield, because you have insane burst heals. Having both, strong heals AND a strong shield is OP and shouldn't be possible. A Dragonknight could have might shields, when he uses healing ward, Harness and his class shield, combined with a strong self heal that gets boosted by his shield. And a DK, can reach muuuuch higher damage output than a Sorcerer. Get creative and come out of your bubble
And now finally come to recognize this and get the very idea of classes, until you start talking about this nonsense. And thanks for qqing, so that any diversity in this game gets destroyed, thanks to you not willing to learn and adapt. Thank you
Theres an argument in there somewhere if DKs and Templars shields would not be critted but they will be, the same as Sorcs. Fact remains Sorcs will still have the best shields, can still spam them and still have their escape skill, albeit used less often in a row now. Comparing classes in this way is nonsense. How many DKs do you see using Healing Ward AND Harness AND their class shield. Yes they could have them but they would not be able to kill much.
Lets see what PTS is like when the change is implemented.
so magica dks who have less dmg abilities slotted than sorcs valuing their own utility tools more valuable than shields complain that sorcs shieldstack while they refuse to the same - do i get your statement right?
Darnathian wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »This makes my re-roll of night blade and templar justified.
With this change light armor is dead for any class, its simply not viable at all unless you want to die.
You can't be a caster in light armor, heaven forbid you have a damage shield and dont die in one hit.
Without a damage shield all light armor users are naked in spell resist or physical resist against anyone with a sharpened weapon and even more so with a few point in spell erosion or piercing.
Your damage shields already have no armor or spell resist and now the can be crit? Pointless lol
The worst part is this screws templar more then anyone and they are already being miffed. Pathetic.
So many people who are good (?) at PvP don't get this it's amazing.
Ask them, how is a sorc supposed to survive?, I'm curious what they'd say.
How does any light armored class survive? Be thankful that you have an extra shield at your disposal. Also if you're concerned about survival, try throwing a couple of pieces of heavy armor on, our craft a defensive item set.
Uh, I am thankful. With no class heal and nerfed mobility, it helps, yes. Note you can roll a sorc too if you want the sorc shield.
2 pieces of heavy does essentially nothing on live. Have they changed things to make it much more effective for light armored classes? Have they added CPs to give equivalent mitigation against physical damage as there is currently against magical damage?
Oh, and recommend a "defensive item set"?
Also you don't need a class heal when you're a magicka user. They have restoration staffs for those.
Ok, so you've demonstrated you know nothing about playing a sorc effectively.
Re. no class heal I was trying to get you to understand (a bit) why sorcs have a good class shield. You know other magicka using classes have class heals right? Any class, let alone sorcs, who have to (or opt to) equip a resto staff for heals deserve that much more survivability IMO.
But that's theproblem. It's too good. You all defended it when people were asking it to be scaled off health like every other shield. So this is what you get
To say that is okay for sorc's to spam 25k+ shields is okay is laughable. Class heals? Lol. I will trade you that. Those shields add up to way more than most people have in hp's. And on top of that it makes you stronger offensively too
Good change. I personally was hoping for the. To remove stacking but this is decent
Looks like you can't just put on light armor and nothing but shields and nukes on your bars now
Sorcs with 25k+ damage shields? What game are you playing? XD the most ive seen hardened ward get to is 15k, now theres a 50% nerf to all shields in pvp, so 7.5k shield. Thats nothing in pvp when people can hit 2k on light attacks, 10k snipes,12k radiant destruction,10k concealed weapon ect. I dont think the problems we're facing is with the classes. But the CHAMPION SYSTEM. the ONLY people that can get anywhere near 25k in shields is someoneone with TONNES of CP. And those are the people that get complained about when people scurry over to the forums to cry for nerfs.
Don't even talk about annulment, it's available to everyone and only protects you from spells.
Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »I never got why you couldn't crit on them in the first place?
Septimus_Magna wrote: »I love all the QQ from sorcerers. If you don't want your shields to be critable then you shouldn't want your frags to crit for 17k
My shields dont crit when I cast them, damage and heals can crit so why cant shields crit? My 45-50% is completely ignored while I have to defend myself, except for the healing ward heal.
Dont forget that all magicka builds use harness magicka and/or healing ward. So all magicka builds get nerfed in comparison to stam builds, especially stam NBs which have a ton of crit and burst damage.
The problem with crits on shields is that shield dont have any mitigation, unmitigated crit damage will very high so the shield value have to be increased accordingly. This will punish builds with low crit and benefit builds with high crit. So tanky builds will have more trouble killing magicka builds and stam burst builds (ie gankers) will have an easier time killing magicka builds. This is the exact opposite of what is needed atm.
Problem with the squishy caster meta, is that it doesn't work in this game since everything and everybody has gap closers.. so the typical squishy caster play of keeping your range and kiting / repositioning just doesn't work in this game as everybody has access to gap closers that have at least the same if not larger ranger than your nukes.
What's the huge issue here nbs can't Perma roll dodge anymore dks can't perms block anymore and sorcs can still shields stack just easier to get it down and it should be that way if your shield gets tore down just put it back up ffs. It's a great change and should of always been this way what's the point of having crit if it's worthless again Perma shield stacking sorcs.....
I'm so tired of this qqing about Hardened Ward scaling of Magicka. That's the very idea of it and is good as it is.
Seriously, are you people not able to understand ? Or can't you understand ?
Sorcerer is meant to be a magicka based class. Each class offers different playstyles. Hardened Ward is meant for a Magicka playstyle, but there are Sorcerer builds without Hardened Ward.
A Templars shield is meant for tanks, who have high health and HIGHLY benefit from their health based shield (same goes for DK) And blazing shield also increases the damage based on its strenght. So dont tell me, Templars dont benefit from being tanky and having damage either.
But if you play a Templar Healer, you aren't even supposed to have this strong shield, because you have insane burst heals. Having both, strong heals AND a strong shield is OP and shouldn't be possible. A Dragonknight could have might shields, when he uses healing ward, Harness and his class shield, combined with a strong self heal that gets boosted by his shield. And a DK, can reach muuuuch higher damage output than a Sorcerer. Get creative and come out of your bubble
And now finally come to recognize this and get the very idea of classes, until you start talking about this nonsense. And thanks for qqing, so that any diversity in this game gets destroyed, thanks to you not willing to learn and adapt. Thank you
Hiero_Glyph wrote: »What's the huge issue here nbs can't Perma roll dodge anymore dks can't perms block anymore and sorcs can still shields stack just easier to get it down and it should be that way if your shield gets tore down just put it back up ffs. It's a great change and should of always been this way what's the point of having crit if it's worthless again Perma shield stacking sorcs.....
The problem isn't with criting on shields, it's that any remaining damage applied after the shield is removed becomes unmitigated and ignores armor and resistance. You could be wearing full heavy armor and still take 10k overflow damage. Also, shields can't crit themselves so it's a double standard.
A better solution is to make all damage shields scale off of health. This encourages hybrid builds and benefits tank builds the most.
Darnathian wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.
The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?
There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.
Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade
Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.
Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50% is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).
This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something
Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage
You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?
Hardened Ward DOES NOT INCREASE A SORCERER'S DAMAGE.
What are you actually talking about!?! I just, have no idea where you get the BS you spread on the forums.
Oh come on, you know exactly what he meant. High magicka boosts both hardened ward and sorcerer's damage. Thus when hardened ward gets better, the sorcerer's damage also gets better.
And is it not an almost solely made class for a caster? Which is why the ward scales off of magicka. Just like the tankier classes get a shield that scales off of their health. Give me a reflect, a self-heal, ultimate that restores my stats, and then take away my ward.
You people are ridiculous.
Dude. Just stop. You call us the tankier class yet all sorc's and nb's complained about us blocking all your damn damage all the time but failing to kill you. But now we can be tanks because it suits your argument.
Let's fast forward one month from now. Half the posts will be gone. It will only be nb's and sorc's calling for nerfs on each other. Because all us dk's and Templars will be gone from this game. Enjoy
DisgracefulMind wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »I really can't understand what is going on in ZOS' minds. Several of the shields in game are already poor on live now, crap in the current version on the PTS and will be entirely useless with this change.
The real issue is and always has been shield stacking. So why on earth will they not simply remove stacking and then adjust the various shields as necessary ?
There doesn't seem to be any logic behind the current strategy of balancing the shields between each other and it's clearly not working.
Nah man all shields with maybe the exception sun shield on pts are OP. Healing ward is AMAZING. The bad is I was just getting used to the OP ward on my magikca nightblade
Just in case you guys didn't catch it in the last live: healing ward is currently bugged on PTS.
Normally, it's strength is boosted up to 300% depending on how low the target's health is. The cyrodiil debuff that is supposed to lower all shields by 50% does not cut this 300% bonus in half like it should(down to 150%), instead the 50% is subtracted from the 300%(resulting in 250% low-health healing ward bonus, instead of 150%).
This. That's why shields seem so strong. Can only repeat myself: Healing ward is the whole problem.
And since it is not affected by the debuff, shield stacking appears so strong to us.
When they fix this, there is no need to make shields critable or something
Wrong. I can only repeat myself. Hardened ward scaling off magician is the problem. You should not get a 15k shield which also dramatically increases your damage
You seriously still trying to do smoke and mirrors on this bro?
Hardened Ward DOES NOT INCREASE A SORCERER'S DAMAGE.
What are you actually talking about!?! I just, have no idea where you get the BS you spread on the forums.
Oh come on, you know exactly what he meant. High magicka boosts both hardened ward and sorcerer's damage. Thus when hardened ward gets better, the sorcerer's damage also gets better.
And is it not an almost solely made class for a caster? Which is why the ward scales off of magicka. Just like the tankier classes get a shield that scales off of their health. Give me a reflect, a self-heal, ultimate that restores my stats, and then take away my ward.
You people are ridiculous.
Dude. Just stop. You call us the tankier class yet all sorc's and nb's complained about us blocking all your damn damage all the time but failing to kill you. But now we can be tanks because it suits your argument.
Let's fast forward one month from now. Half the posts will be gone. It will only be nb's and sorc's calling for nerfs on each other. Because all us dk's and Templars will be gone from this game. Enjoy
Okay "dude", since you're under the assumption that all people on these forums are males without a lick of efficient speech for debates.
I play DK and Templar, obviously in my signature that can be seen. I never one time complained about Templars or Dragonknights; in fact, many of my posts state reasons as to why those classes should be left be, and also state my sympathy for the Templar class being ignored 99% of the time. So do not insinuate that I'm a clueless and mindless individual who sees no sense in anything at all and is a die-hard only Sorcerer just because it fits your description of someone who you should absolutely despise and argue with. I'm not asking for nerfs on any classes, because they are ALL able to be dealt with on any class in PvP. I'd rather anything under-performing in ANY class get a buff to balance out what may be considered OP for other classes. And instead of screaming out for nerfs to anything and everything you have issues with get out of your bubble, adjust your build, and move on. You're sitting here complaining because DK is not the win-all class anymore, and you have a hard time against a caster build. How funny, you have a reflect, use it. You have an option to have a gap closer, use them. You have the option to shield stack, use that as well. You also have the option to dish out immense damage, so do it. Instead of all your qqing on every section of these forums, why don't you take some time and really, really think out a nice build for yourself that's going to solve your problems. Or just accept that maybe you just haven't learned how to handle classes that can get out of melee range, I really don't know know what else to tell you. Instead of crying for nerfs every chance you get, how about you analyze your class, and offer suggestions in the forums, in a positive manner, that are reasonable to perhaps improve it. There are plenty of people who don't go around spreading misinformation about classes they don't play, who take the time to elaborate on what they feel is and isn't lackluster in their main class and offer healthy discussions and suggestions to the Devs and the community. And then there are people like you who post about what displeases them in other classes. You're so tunnel-visioned by your hatred and inability to handle sorcerers that it's saddening.
DisgracefulMind wrote: »Okay "dude", since you're under the assumption that all people on these forums are males without a lick of efficient speech for debates.
The reason Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield scale with health, is because Dragonknights and Templars are tank classes, the reason Conjured Ward scales with magicka, is because the Sorcerer is a magicka class. Any class can be anything yes, but classes are not equal and there is a theme to each class. None of this is going to change, you are never going to see Conjured Ward scaling with health.
They just need to find a balance with shield strength, so that it doesn't keep those that use damage shields alive indefinitely, but that there is still a good reason to slot such skills on your bar. ZOS is not very good at progressive balance sadly, they either make skills too powerful or more often completely useless. All we can do is hope and keep offering constructive suggestions.
The reason Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield scale with health, is because Dragonknights and Templars are tank classes, the reason Conjured Ward scales with magicka, is because the Sorcerer is a magicka class. Any class can be anything yes, but classes are not equal and there is a theme to each class. None of this is going to change, you are never going to see Conjured Ward scaling with health.
They just need to find a balance with shield strength, so that it doesn't keep those that use damage shields alive indefinitely, but that there is still a good reason to slot such skills on your bar. ZOS is not very good at progressive balance sadly, they either make skills too powerful or more often completely useless. All we can do is hope and keep offering constructive suggestions.
Hiero_Glyph wrote: »The reason Sun Shield and Obsidian Shield scale with health, is because Dragonknights and Templars are tank classes, the reason Conjured Ward scales with magicka, is because the Sorcerer is a magicka class. Any class can be anything yes, but classes are not equal and there is a theme to each class. None of this is going to change, you are never going to see Conjured Ward scaling with health.
They just need to find a balance with shield strength, so that it doesn't keep those that use damage shields alive indefinitely, but that there is still a good reason to slot such skills on your bar. ZOS is not very good at progressive balance sadly, they either make skills too powerful or more often completely useless. All we can do is hope and keep offering constructive suggestions.
Ugh, not very Templar or DK is a tank just as not every Sorc is a magicka build. The only fair way to balance damage shields is to make them all universally scale off of health. This means that to increase shield strength you actually need to increase your survivability. Hybrid and tank builds would then have more defense than magicka and stamina builds designed for offense. It's balanced because it's a global change and not targeted at Sorc only, although they won't be able to boost just one stat to increase their offense, defense, and sustain any more.
Septimus_Magna wrote: »@RinaldoGandolphi I have to disagree, magicka regen builds dont do enough damage to be competative in my experience.
When I tried a build with 2k magicka regen, 1.9k spell dmg and 34k max magicka on my sorc, my spells were hitting like wet noodles. My cfrags were hitting for 6-8k which didnt scare or kill anyone. Every magicka build I fought had harness magicka and healing ward so unless they made huge mistages I couldnt kill them. Most stam builds have decent spell resist, can dodge/block/reflect my spells so they were hard to kill as well. Some fights just ended with me streaking away because i couldnt kill him and he couldnt kill me. With low damage you only put a little pressure on your enemy, this makes it easier for them to sustain. With high damage they need to spam abilities to stay alive, putting their sustain to the test.
Regen builds might be good for staying alive or group play but thats about it. For small scale pvp high damage builds are superior because sustain isnt such a big issue, at least in current live pvp.
With the damage reduction on pts, regen builds will do even less damage and can only win by out-sustaining their enemy. I have not tested this myself on pts but I can imagine this makes fights really boring. High damage builds will have a harder time bursting down their enemy, this will put more strain on their sustain which is their weakness.
Im curious to see what balance between regen and damage works for magicka and stamina builds in update 7. I think its good there's more emphasis on sustain as long as it doesnt make fights boring.