Dedicated Tel Var Stone System Feedback Thread

Tavore1138 · July 2015

A well coordinated group in PvP can take down groups several times the size but ultimately if you have 2 coordinated groups with equivalent equipment fighting then numbers will most often be the deciding factor. The only way to beat this is to ban grouping and even then people can still coordinate using TS or mumble.

Seems increasingly that even the gankers are not going to get their way and will be complaining about getting mown down by groups when trying to get away with the proceeds of their muggings.

Is it perhaps the case that ZOS would be better off limiting TV looting to a subset of IC regions and give an extra multiplier and maybe a couple of focused sets as rewards to players who wish to play this meta while enabling the wider player base to enjoy the rest of the content with only the challenge of dying not looting to contend with?

Ultimately this needs to be a success and simply saying that this content should only be for the most hardcore PvP purists is to risk many people simply not buying it which in turn is likely to impact on future support and development budgets.

Contraptions · July 2015

As someone else has mentioned before, the 50 stone threshold needed to deposit should simply be removed. Once I deposit my first 50 stones, I can deposit any amount I have on my person, even less than 50, by withdrawing enough to make 50, then depositing it all back again. I get that ZOS wanted people to "hold on" to stones longer, for whatever purpose, but the way this was implemented now is so easy to circumvent that it serves absolutely no gameplay purpose.

Maybe make an introductory Tel Var quest given by Phrastus or Cinnabar to gather 50 of these stones, which once the quest is completed unlocks the ability to deposit stones in the bank or something. The in-game explanation of the TV system with its mechanics, rewards and risks is really lacking currently.

Icy · July 2015

Grampa_Smurf wrote: »

Tel Var stone system needs a debuff on the player that has lost them, Say for the next 10-15mins they can't lose any and players that kill them don't get any either.

Just a thought.

Yes THIS. A variation would be something similar to the diminishing returns of XP gain in PvP

Experience gained from killing other player characters now uses the same diminishing rules as Alliance Point gain: killing the same player character twice within 30 seconds will provide 0 XP and 0 AP.

That might work for TV stones as well.

Thecapeo · July 2015

Console player here with a question. I tried to look through this thread but couldn't find the answer. How are stones divided when a group kills a player or NPCS? Just anyone who does damage gets a percentage? Because if that's the case it would seem the most efficient way to get stones is going to end up being large AOE zergs just moving through the place mowing down smaller groups and NPCs alike which will only be fun/interesting when opposing big groups run into each other and be a bummer for folks that like to run in smaller groups.

wraith808 · July 2015

Thecapeo wrote: »

Console player here with a question. I tried to look through this thread but couldn't find the answer. How are stones divided when a group kills a player or NPCS? Just anyone who does damage gets a percentage? Because if that's the case it would seem the most efficient way to get stones is going to end up being large AOE zergs just moving through the place mowing down smaller groups and NPCs alike which will only be fun/interesting when opposing big groups run into each other and be a bummer for folks that like to run in smaller groups.

Equally, unfortunately. I proposed that they change it so that the killshot gets it. That would remove a lot of the incentive to run in zergs, and ultimately kill them as people revert to normal self interest. Only very organized groups can work around a killshot limitation.

Mawgusta · July 2015

As a PvPer who enjoyed UO type of games with full pvp loot. I don't like the current system on pts.

I see no reason to take 100%. If it were 50% that would leave a serious fear in place to bank often. I think it should be cut to 50% in PvP and upped to 50% from mob deaths. Then we walk the gauntlet through the sewers. Also remove 25% if we log out in the district long enough to get kicked out of Cyrodill. Only 25% because if we crash long enough to get removed that would bite.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

Mawgusta wrote: »

As a PvPer who enjoyed UO type of games with full pvp loot. I don't like the current system on pts.

I see no reason to take 100%. If it were 50% that would leave a serious fear in place to bank often. I think it should be cut to 50% in PvP and upped to 50% from mob deaths. Then we walk the gauntlet through the sewers. Also remove 25% if we log out in the district long enough to get kicked out of Cyrodill. Only 25% because if we crash long enough to get removed that would bite.

"Also remove 25% if we log out in the district long enough to get kicked out of Cyrodill."

WTF you want people to lose stones just because they want to be free to quit game at any moment they need, and not be chained to machine because of log out restrictions?

Mawgusta · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Mawgusta wrote: »

As a PvPer who enjoyed UO type of games with full pvp loot. I don't like the current system on pts.

I see no reason to take 100%. If it were 50% that would leave a serious fear in place to bank often. I think it should be cut to 50% in PvP and upped to 50% from mob deaths. Then we walk the gauntlet through the sewers. Also remove 25% if we log out in the district long enough to get kicked out of Cyrodill. Only 25% because if we crash long enough to get removed that would bite.

"Also remove 25% if we log out in the district long enough to get kicked out of Cyrodill."

WTF you want people to lose stones just because they want to be free to quit game at any moment they need, and not be chained to machine because of log out restrictions?

Dramatic.

It's a trade off. Dropping it too 50% on PvP deaths traded off with upping it on other ways of bypassing the mechanics that make it dangerous in the first place.

Edit: Also if it were dropped to 50% and the player had enough. It would sure keep them from jumping down from that safe point to try to lemmin rush their Tv stones back from the person that killed them, before they have a chance to finish a small skirmish with les resources etc.

I know I felt like a lemmin a few times jumping out of the safe spawn area. I've seen people asking for it to port us to base as a time out.. which I agree, but instead, 50% would make us think twice if we had say 1600 to begin with.. Is another 400 really worth it?

Mr_Koh · July 2015

I believe that the spawns should be random instead of keeping you in the same district. That way you get to fight different players, and it also prevents large groups of one faction from "zerging" in the Imperial city. Yes I understand people want to play in groups, but I think if you're grouped in the Imperial city you should have to res your teammates to stick together giving grand soul gems a use in the city.

With the change I mentioned above I feel like players should give a minimum amount of stones if they don't currently have any. And with players spawning randomly it should prevent spawn camping. The spawns should also not be able to attack other players of they're on their spawn point.

I've tested the shield breaker set and the five piece bonus is seriously lacking. It relies too heavily on light/heavy attacks and if you're going against a sorc then just using light attacks isn't sufficient and weaving them (as I always do) hasn't made me feel any stronger against shield stackers. With all magicka builds currently popping shields I should get the most use out of this set, but they are pretty much health regening the dmg it does.

VirtualElizabeth · July 2015

I am trying my hardest here not to sound overly dramatic, but the way the Tel Var stone situation is, I am seriously considering taking a long break from ESO. I have been active in PVP for a year and have been a subscriber for most the time past launch ( I took two months off from the game after I moved from one state to another). I am hardly great when it comes to PVP and take my deaths as they come with little anger or ego bruising but I enjoy the unpredictability of it to much to be to hard on myself when I lose. But to be okay with losing something that I can actually use outside of Cyrodiil will be a challenge for me to not be angry about. And when I start getting angry at a game, it's time for me to go.

I understand on some level the concept of "loss" being more than just an inconvenience ie. rezzing, riding back etc. But PVP is my end game - I might suck at it but I still enjoy doing it. Please ZOS, don't ruin this magnificent DLC you have created!

Love,

One Serious ESO fangirl

Merlin13KAGL · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

I believe the issue of zergs happens when all factions have access to IC.

If they make it dependent on keep ownership as planned, zergs should disappear because there's no enemy players to zerg really apart from some few stragglers hiding somewhere (which brings the danger & excitement).

I doubt any zerg will really form just to grind TV Stones from mobs (and this should be discouraged by significantly reducing the amount of TV Stones earned in such a case).

@DDuke , while this makes sense, as the enemy will cease to be able to rez, it also kind of takes away from the PvP aspect within IC.

Once you've cleared the enemy out, the PvP is then back on the outside walls (leading to constant handover).

I think they need to figure out an option D.

olemanwinter wrote: »

Except this is already the case.

2 friends and I traveled over into EP sewers just to "press our luck". We found a group of about 20 EP, a "blob" just running in a big zergy circle spamming AoE.

They ran us over obviously and got a lot of stones, but I bet they probably didn't even notice divided by 20 people and just 3 more enemies killed in the 40 they killed that minute.

The same zerg stacking+AoE mechanics we see in PvP combined with the grinding routes of Riften tigers. On day 2.

@olemanwinter this is where the roaming bosses should be made to take care of things.

Camping out in one place too long should lead to unavoidable consequences. Not asking for unkillable's necessarily, but I don't feel anyone should get too comfortable standing (relatively) still in IC.

(Damn shame you two didn't have magicka detonation...)

I was attacked while collecting a skyshard in IC by a ganker. (I didn't need it, it was more an autopilot thing)

On that note: You should have immunity while in the absorb shard animation, as you cannot CC break to cancel.

The only good thing about 'ownership' of IC (which should come with a cooldown, say 2 hours until it's one-way access only) is that once locked inside, you know you are destined to quickly become extinct.

Mr_Koh · July 2015

I would like to see master weapons available for tel vars. Maybe throw in master sword boxes for a hefty amount of stones. And once you open it the trait is random that way people will have to work for it. Some pvp players don't want to do DSA for such a core pvp weapon setup

Wycks · July 2015

Why is everyone worried about losing Stones when the rewards for them are so lackluster?

BalticBlues · July 2015

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I am trying my hardest here not to sound overly dramatic, but the way the Tel Var stone situation is, I am seriously considering taking a long break from ESO. [...] PVP is my end game - I might suck at it but I still enjoy doing it. Please ZOS, don't ruin this magnificent DLC you have created!

I am feeling quiet similar. Question:
Why do people enjoy games, sport and e-sport?

Let's compare PVP with soccer/football/boxing etc. Don't you agree that most people enjoy competetive games just for the fun in the games itself? Would such competitive games really benefit from introducing punishments for failure and rewards for malevolence? Example: Would soccer/football/boxing really be more fun if losing players additionally are robbed? Would it really be more fun to reward cowardly PVP fouls behind the player's PVE back (killing weakened players right after bossfights or in sykshard animations) with all the prize money for the most treacherous player?

There are so many popular and proven MP game modes as CTF, DOMINATION, TEAM DEATHMATH etc. Why not introducing such modes to TESO instead of playing "NO RULES - EVIL WINS"?

Example: There could be just one TV stone chest in the center of an IC map. Then open the gates for all teams at the same time to see which team is able to bring this chest to their headquarter...

DDuke · July 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I am trying my hardest here not to sound overly dramatic, but the way the Tel Var stone situation is, I am seriously considering taking a long break from ESO. [...] PVP is my end game - I might suck at it but I still enjoy doing it. Please ZOS, don't ruin this magnificent DLC you have created!

I am feeling quiet similar. Question:
Why do people enjoy games, sport and e-sport?

Let's compare PVP with soccer/football/boxing etc. Don't you agree that most people enjoy competetive games just for the fun in the games itself? Would such competitive games really benefit from introducing punishments for failure and rewards for malevolence? Example: Would soccer/football/boxing really be more fun if the losing team also loses all the prize money? Would it really be more fun to reward cowardly PVP fouls behind the player's PVE back (killing weakened players right after bossfights or in sykshard animations) with all the prize money for the most treacherous player?

There are so many popular and proven MP game modes as CTF, DOMINATION, TEAM DEATHMATH etc. Why not introducing such modes to TESO instead of playing "NO RULES - EVIL WINS"?

Example: There could be only one TV stone chest in the center of an IC map. Then open the gates for all teams at the same time to see which team is able to bring this chest to their headquarter...

Funny, how you're talking of e-sports and bashing this game mode, when it's the most popular one in e-sports.

Collect coins from enemy creep waves/NPCs, turn them in before enemies kill you and take your coins. Where have I seen this before... oh right, in pretty much every MOBA.

Popular & proven game mode, perhaps even more so than the ones you listed.

Shadowbain · July 2015

Since IC is both a place for PvE and PvP, I think that TV stones should be something around a 20% loss and at the highest end, no more than 30% loss. This will keep those that like to only PvE coming back and not be completely upset and rage quit after collecting the stones just to get zerged.

Diminishing returns is something that could be looked at due to those that will camp spawns. If the player dies say 2-3 times in a certain amount of time, implement a diminishing return where the player(s) being "camped" will eventually lose 0 stones from other players for say, 5 minutes. Another thing that could be incorporated instead of diminishing returns would be that if the player dies x times they could get a buff that gives them long enough to leave the zone without being attacked. Possibly an effect like when you rez and cannot do anything but move for a short period (something where these players receiving this buff cannot go back to farming stones until the buff is gone).

If I recall correctly, ZOS mentioned the larger mobs in the zone will yield higher TV stones, but that players couldn't just get 1 hit in on them and obtain the same amount as those that did more damage to them. I'm not sure how hard this would be to incorporate into actual players, but say there's a group of 12 zerging around killing 1-2 players here and there. The player will still lose their 20%, but know all those 12 players get that amount divided among them. This will make zerging less enticing, unless these zergs are going head to head with other large groups.

I love both PvE and PvP so I think that a loss in stones will entice those in PvP to stick around IC and gain stones by killing players, while not having too high of a loss to those dying making it unfun for them to enter IC.

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I am trying my hardest here not to sound overly dramatic, but the way the Tel Var stone situation is, I am seriously considering taking a long break from ESO. [...] PVP is my end game - I might suck at it but I still enjoy doing it. Please ZOS, don't ruin this magnificent DLC you have created!

I am feeling quiet similar. Question:
Why do people enjoy games, sport and e-sport?

Let's compare PVP with soccer/football/boxing etc. Don't you agree that most people enjoy competetive games just for the fun in the games itself? Would such competitive games really benefit from introducing punishments for failure and rewards for malevolence? Example: Would soccer/football/boxing really be more fun if the losing team also loses all the prize money? Would it really be more fun to reward cowardly PVP fouls behind the player's PVE back (killing weakened players right after bossfights or in sykshard animations) with all the prize money for the most treacherous player?

There are so many popular and proven MP game modes as CTF, DOMINATION, TEAM DEATHMATH etc. Why not introducing such modes to TESO instead of playing "NO RULES - EVIL WINS"?

Example: There could be only one TV stone chest in the center of an IC map. Then open the gates for all teams at the same time to see which team is able to bring this chest to their headquarter...

Funny, how you're talking of e-sports and bashing this game mode, when it's the most popular one in e-sports.

Collect coins from enemy creep waves/NPCs, turn them in before enemies kill you and take your coins. Where have I seen this before... oh right, in pretty much every MOBA.

Popular & proven game mode, perhaps even more so than the ones you listed.

Not true, the biggest e.sports in the world does not have this kind of game system. Just look at world of tanks, pvp 100%, huge international e.sport tournaments broadcast allover the world. Or counter strike.....

No the only reason to have player loot is simply to cater to the type of player who does not get his kick from competition, but from the knowledge that his opponent suffers.

Its a VERY bad psychological trait that should be suppressed in gaming, not encouraged this this POS system does.

tplink3r1 · July 2015

I like the system so far, but i think people are going to exploit it considering you can just jump inside a pack o daedra to comit suicide when you are about to die to enemy players(by doing that you don't lose all your stones).

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I am trying my hardest here not to sound overly dramatic, but the way the Tel Var stone situation is, I am seriously considering taking a long break from ESO. [...] PVP is my end game - I might suck at it but I still enjoy doing it. Please ZOS, don't ruin this magnificent DLC you have created!

I am feeling quiet similar. Question:
Why do people enjoy games, sport and e-sport?

Let's compare PVP with soccer/football/boxing etc. Don't you agree that most people enjoy competetive games just for the fun in the games itself? Would such competitive games really benefit from introducing punishments for failure and rewards for malevolence? Example: Would soccer/football/boxing really be more fun if losing players additionally are robbed? Would it really be more fun to reward cowardly PVP fouls behind the player's PVE back (killing weakened players right after bossfights or in sykshard animations) with all the prize money for the most treacherous player?

There are so many popular and proven MP game modes as CTF, DOMINATION, TEAM DEATHMATH etc. Why not introducing such modes to TESO instead of playing "NO RULES - EVIL WINS"?

Example: There could be just one TV stone chest in the center of an IC map. Then open the gates for all teams at the same time to see which team is able to bring this chest to their headquarter...

Yeah, this, an actual gameplay instead of blind festival of harassment and ganking. Waiting till someone is at bring of death and then just poking him to steal all his stones and rob him from his hard work.

Unless, apparently, any system like that is too complicated for ESO PVPers, who are set to work in manner of:
- PVPer finds enemy, PVPer waits till enemy almost dead from PVE, PVPer kills
or occasionaly
- PVPer looks for enemy player, PVPer kills

wraith808 · July 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

There are so many popular and proven MP game modes as CTF, DOMINATION, TEAM DEATHMATH etc. Why not introducing such modes to TESO instead of playing "NO RULES - EVIL WINS"?

Because those are arena types of matches. This... isn't that. And it's definitely not no rules-evil wins, either. Someone said a good quote about hyperbole earlier in this thread I think. That applies.

This is about modifying the rules on PTS to get to a good place. Why not contribute to that instead of foisting FUD and hyperbole?

I do agree as they have it now, there are certain qualities that the few will take advantage of, i.e. equal split, no need to go get the stones, no immunity during zoning in, glitchy gates. But that type of feedback isn't trying to gut the system. Heck, even the suggestions about the time between kills and changing the percentages are feedback on the current system.

Just saying "it's bad, get rid of it" isn't trying to work on it... it's trying to do the same thing that the auction house group is- changing design from what they've decided is the way that they want to go to the way that you want it to be played.

Nebthet78 · July 2015

Mawgusta wrote: »

Also remove 25% if we log out in the district long enough to get kicked out of Cyrodill. Only 25% because if we crash long enough to get removed that would bite.

No to these two. No one should lose any stones because they want to quit the game for the night. I don't live in Mom's basement playing 24/7, I have a job and responsibilities, when I have to leave, I have to leave and I shouldn't be punished for that.

Additionally, players shouldn't be punished due to crappy game code causing game crashes.

tplink3r1 wrote: »

I like the system so far, but i think people are going to exploit it considering you can just jump inside a pack o daedra to comit suicide when you are about to die to enemy players(by doing that you don't lose all your stones).

I wouldn't call that an exploit.. I would call that at least an option for mainly PVE players who are there to farm stones to upgrade their current armor but hate everything else about IC and the ganking and zergs going on there.

The current system for IC is a recipe for disaster.

How many people play this game because of the Elder Scrolls lore and not because it is an MMO?

How many of these same players are going to jump ship once Bethesda releases the next ES game? Especially on console!! And due to the current mechanics of IC.

Frankly, I am thinking if they keep the Tel Var stone looting mechanic then it should be lowered to 10%, the same loss you have from an NPC mob. Then you get a small buff after you resurrect so you can run away from the huge zergs you are going to encounter.

If players can't be happy without receiving 50-100% of the stones from a killed player, then I have to wonder what it is they actually enjoy, because that just proves, it is not the game they are enjoying, it's griefing and making other players miserable, and that type of behavior must be discouraged.

Sidney · July 2015

I think the idea of losing 100% of your stones is quite a poor design choice and I'm shocked it made it past a thought thrown out at a meeting. There's countless other methods to handle this as mentioned in posts above.

It most certainly would be frustrating not just to pve players who don't usually pve, but to players who want to pvp but have never found a group they enjoyed playing with who were okay with having a newbie tag along and learn. Those people are either going to have to hunt down a skilled guild and hope they take newbies, or just give up on the idea altogether.

We've seen this sort of thing done in other games and it just angered the players and many rage quit and feel left behind. We want to encourage more players, not thin our numbers, is this not correct? It's truly worrisome when we see certain decisions that make it look as though we are either not being listened to, or that the ones behind the decisions just don't care.

It seems like more and more decisions are being taken in the direction that a certain other huge and popular MMO takes theirs - and it does make a lot of us worry for the games future.

It doesn't need to be 100%. Players can feel rewarded for even a very small %.

pmn100b16_ESO · July 2015

I just done a few hours on PTS and can honestly say I looked at how many stones I had about 5 times. The rest of the time I was killing, dying, killing, dying. Really like the way you get back into the thick of things right away. At one point I think I had almost a 1000 stones, and lost them at some point, I can't remember when. Its just not important really. Anyone that NEEDS the stones can just sit in the sewers near the base and farm npcs all day without seeing an enemy player for hours.

Going up into Imperial City proper is going to lose you stones. Yes you can potentially win much more too, but you need to have the mindset of pvp first, stones second to enjoy it up there.

DDuke · July 2015

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I am trying my hardest here not to sound overly dramatic, but the way the Tel Var stone situation is, I am seriously considering taking a long break from ESO. [...] PVP is my end game - I might suck at it but I still enjoy doing it. Please ZOS, don't ruin this magnificent DLC you have created!

I am feeling quiet similar. Question:
Why do people enjoy games, sport and e-sport?

Let's compare PVP with soccer/football/boxing etc. Don't you agree that most people enjoy competetive games just for the fun in the games itself? Would such competitive games really benefit from introducing punishments for failure and rewards for malevolence? Example: Would soccer/football/boxing really be more fun if the losing team also loses all the prize money? Would it really be more fun to reward cowardly PVP fouls behind the player's PVE back (killing weakened players right after bossfights or in sykshard animations) with all the prize money for the most treacherous player?

There are so many popular and proven MP game modes as CTF, DOMINATION, TEAM DEATHMATH etc. Why not introducing such modes to TESO instead of playing "NO RULES - EVIL WINS"?

Example: There could be only one TV stone chest in the center of an IC map. Then open the gates for all teams at the same time to see which team is able to bring this chest to their headquarter...

Funny, how you're talking of e-sports and bashing this game mode, when it's the most popular one in e-sports.

Collect coins from enemy creep waves/NPCs, turn them in before enemies kill you and take your coins. Where have I seen this before... oh right, in pretty much every MOBA.

Popular & proven game mode, perhaps even more so than the ones you listed.

Not true, the biggest e.sports in the world does not have this kind of game system. Just look at world of tanks, pvp 100%, huge international e.sport tournaments broadcast allover the world. Or counter strike.....

No the only reason to have player loot is simply to cater to the type of player who does not get his kick from competition, but from the knowledge that his opponent suffers.

Its a VERY bad psychological trait that should be suppressed in gaming, not encouraged this this POS system does.

DOTA 2, LoL & Smite (3 biggest e-sports) all have this game mode and in the game I play (HoTS) I find it very enjoyable.

Tavore1138 · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I am trying my hardest here not to sound overly dramatic, but the way the Tel Var stone situation is, I am seriously considering taking a long break from ESO. [...] PVP is my end game - I might suck at it but I still enjoy doing it. Please ZOS, don't ruin this magnificent DLC you have created!

I am feeling quiet similar. Question:
Why do people enjoy games, sport and e-sport?

Let's compare PVP with soccer/football/boxing etc. Don't you agree that most people enjoy competetive games just for the fun in the games itself? Would such competitive games really benefit from introducing punishments for failure and rewards for malevolence? Example: Would soccer/football/boxing really be more fun if the losing team also loses all the prize money? Would it really be more fun to reward cowardly PVP fouls behind the player's PVE back (killing weakened players right after bossfights or in sykshard animations) with all the prize money for the most treacherous player?

There are so many popular and proven MP game modes as CTF, DOMINATION, TEAM DEATHMATH etc. Why not introducing such modes to TESO instead of playing "NO RULES - EVIL WINS"?

Example: There could be only one TV stone chest in the center of an IC map. Then open the gates for all teams at the same time to see which team is able to bring this chest to their headquarter...

Funny, how you're talking of e-sports and bashing this game mode, when it's the most popular one in e-sports.

Collect coins from enemy creep waves/NPCs, turn them in before enemies kill you and take your coins. Where have I seen this before... oh right, in pretty much every MOBA.

Popular & proven game mode, perhaps even more so than the ones you listed.

Have you in turn considered that we have chosen to play an MMORPG instead of a MOBA because we don't like that type of play? And perhaps where you and others argue that MOBA style play should be introduced and other players should suck it up we could in turn suggest you could find this play style option in one of many other games rather than it being forced on people here where a significant number appear not to want it?

DDuke · July 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

I am trying my hardest here not to sound overly dramatic, but the way the Tel Var stone situation is, I am seriously considering taking a long break from ESO. [...] PVP is my end game - I might suck at it but I still enjoy doing it. Please ZOS, don't ruin this magnificent DLC you have created!

I am feeling quiet similar. Question:
Why do people enjoy games, sport and e-sport?

Let's compare PVP with soccer/football/boxing etc. Don't you agree that most people enjoy competetive games just for the fun in the games itself? Would such competitive games really benefit from introducing punishments for failure and rewards for malevolence? Example: Would soccer/football/boxing really be more fun if the losing team also loses all the prize money? Would it really be more fun to reward cowardly PVP fouls behind the player's PVE back (killing weakened players right after bossfights or in sykshard animations) with all the prize money for the most treacherous player?

There are so many popular and proven MP game modes as CTF, DOMINATION, TEAM DEATHMATH etc. Why not introducing such modes to TESO instead of playing "NO RULES - EVIL WINS"?

Example: There could be only one TV stone chest in the center of an IC map. Then open the gates for all teams at the same time to see which team is able to bring this chest to their headquarter...

Funny, how you're talking of e-sports and bashing this game mode, when it's the most popular one in e-sports.

Collect coins from enemy creep waves/NPCs, turn them in before enemies kill you and take your coins. Where have I seen this before... oh right, in pretty much every MOBA.

Popular & proven game mode, perhaps even more so than the ones you listed.

Have you in turn considered that we have chosen to play an MMORPG instead of a MOBA because we don't like that type of play? And perhaps where you and others argue that MOBA style play should be introduced and other players should suck it up we could in turn suggest you could find this play style option in one of many other games rather than it being forced on people here where a significant number appear not to want it?

Forced?

No one is forcing you to play in Imperial City, you have 20 times larger PvP playground in form of Cyrodiil, free of "that type of play".

On the other hand, people who do enjoy "that type of play" now have a place where they can enjoy it.

For the 4th or 5th time in this thread: having options is a good thing.

By your logic, they should never add BGs or Arenas either, or big raids to PvE because "significant" number of people probably dont want those either.

Tavore1138 · July 2015

Forced if we want VR16 sets to remain competitive in PvP in or out of IC.

Forced if we want to remain competitive in PvE.

Forced if we want to obtain new recipes, crafting ingredients or materials.

Forced if we do not choose to be held to ransom for these things by the players who do want to play in this very specialised way.

The options you champion are being removed from a large chunk of players. Content aimed at non ganky players is being gated simply to entice into your line of fire, its a cheap strategy and cheap design.

I am more than happy for you and those that want it to have your one v one ganking arena, but I also want OPTIONS to enjoy the content my sub helps pay for without being forced to play your way. This content removes options.

Lord_Hev · August 2015

Had 500 stones saved up from some good fights, then I get into a small skirmish, all is well, then I crash during the battle. Relog dead and my stones are all gone lol.

This system needs to be removed.

DDuke · August 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Forced if we want VR16 sets to remain competitive in PvP in or out of IC.

You can get materials for VR16 gear from PvE group dungeons as well (both old & new), or purchase them from other players. All sets bought with Tel Var stones are BoP, purchasable from other players.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Forced if we want to remain competitive in PvE.

See above. None of the TV Stone sets are good for PvE.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Forced if we want to obtain new recipes, crafting ingredients or materials.

I'm fairly sure you can also purchase these from other players, or get from the group dungeons.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Forced if we do not choose to be held to ransom for these things by the players who do want to play in this very specialised way.

Then do the group dungeons.

Also, you are not being "held to ransom". Not any more than PvErs currently are (with half the BiS gear coming from PvP bags).*

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

The options you champion are being removed from a large chunk of players. Content aimed at non ganky players is being gated simply to entice into your line of fire, its a cheap strategy and cheap design.

Not true, as demonstrated above. You have the option of doing PvE group dungeons for all your needs, or purchasing the stuff you want, just like on Live server.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

I am more than happy for you and those that want it to have your one v one ganking arena, but I also want OPTIONS to enjoy the content my sub helps pay for without being forced to play your way. This content removes options.

This content does not remove any of the following options:

Twenty 100% PvE zones
Sixteen 100% PvE 4-man group dungeons, 8 with Veteran versions
Three 100% PvE 12-man Trials
Ridiculously huge PvP zone with focus on siege warfare**

What this content actually provides:

A new PvP game mode for people who enjoy that type of PvP
Two new 100% PvE group dungeons (both with veteran versions)

Now, I'd be curious what options are being "removed"?

*Worthy to note, I've long provided feedback for ZOS to make things such as Trials sets good & worth using.
**Another point: Rewards for the Worthy will provide item sets scaled to V16.

Ysne58 · August 2015

I think the drop rate for those stones in PvP should be reduced to 10%, the same rate as when killed by NPCs. I also dislike the current need to have 50 stones in my possession to be able to deposit any at all.