Dedicated Tel Var Stone System Feedback Thread
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mclegg721✭✭My Suggestion to Make all parties happy with the new system is remove the drop of tel var stones from players killed from other players all together.
Since Players will still be worth AP. Make a system to convert AP into Tel Var stones. .
Problem solved.4 -
nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭My Suggestion to Make all parties happy with the new system is remove the drop of tel var stones from players killed from other players all together.
Since Players will still be worth AP. Make a system to convert AP into Tel Var stones. .
Problem solved.
Except they don't want APs to have permanent value since the way they have designed Cyrodiil zerkers have gotten WAY more APs than non zerkers, so they can buy anything that cost APs.
No PvP kills in IC should simply give a stone reward just like NPC kills and PvP deaths should just give a stone loss just like NPCs. But loot should not be there.2 -
mclegg721✭✭Well I have millions of AP saved up from the game. Why is it worthless now? Im pretty salty about it. All the time i've spent killing in Cyrodill is now pretty much useless.0
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nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well I have millions of AP saved up from the game. Why is it worthless now? Im pretty salty about it. All the time i've spent killing in Cyrodill is now pretty much useless.
Got about 1.5 million here and I don't care since I pvp for the thrill of combat and testing my skill against other players, not for any rewards.
Which is also one if the reasons I utterly hate the loot system. It poisons the pure combat and turns it from a good test of skill into a chase for something else.
Darkness falls which IC is a copy off had the same stone reward system but no player loot, and it was a motivator and center of awesome pvp for years and years.7 -
Radburn✭✭✭I played in IC for about an hour the other night and it was basically a push / pull between the respawn areas. I would kill a bunch, and then meet my demise. While I don't have exact numbers on two occassions I checked my TV stones. One time I had 80 and another I had 144. I checked both times after dying and it put me down to 0. It seemed to me as if the loss of TV stones on death is too high.4
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Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want VR16 sets to remain competitive in PvP in or out of IC.
You can get materials for VR16 gear from PvE group dungeons as well (both old & new), or purchase them from other players. All sets bought with Tel Var stones are BoP, purchasable from other players.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to remain competitive in PvE.
See above. None of the TV Stone sets are good for PvE.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to obtain new recipes, crafting ingredients or materials.
I'm fairly sure you can also purchase these from other players, or get from the group dungeons.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we do not choose to be held to ransom for these things by the players who do want to play in this very specialised way.
Then do the group dungeons.
Also, you are not being "held to ransom". Not any more than PvErs currently are (with half the BiS gear coming from PvP bags).*SuraklinPrime wrote: »The options you champion are being removed from a large chunk of players. Content aimed at non ganky players is being gated simply to entice into your line of fire, its a cheap strategy and cheap design.
Not true, as demonstrated above. You have the option of doing PvE group dungeons for all your needs, or purchasing the stuff you want, just like on Live server.SuraklinPrime wrote: »I am more than happy for you and those that want it to have your one v one ganking arena, but I also want OPTIONS to enjoy the content my sub helps pay for without being forced to play your way. This content removes options.
This content does not remove any of the following options:- Twenty 100% PvE zones
- Sixteen 100% PvE 4-man group dungeons, 8 with Veteran versions
- Three 100% PvE 12-man Trials
- Ridiculously huge PvP zone with focus on siege warfare**
What this content actually provides:- A new PvP game mode for people who enjoy that type of PvP
- Two new 100% PvE group dungeons (both with veteran versions)
Now, I'd be curious what options are being "removed"?
*Worthy to note, I've long provided feedback for ZOS to make things such as Trials sets good & worth using.
**Another point: Rewards for the Worthy will provide item sets scaled to V16.
Dungeon sets are fine but note all are BoP so cannot be sold on or traded with PvPers and the materials rate for decon is laughable. Obvious ploy to force crafters into the gank areas. Also forces you to do dungeons if you want those sets... Options?
Isn't the set all tanks are going to want from TV stones and a couple of the possible better damage ones?
Crafting essentials should never NEED to be purchasable, it removes much of the point nor are they available in dungeons from what we know so far, just from coming in and joining the gank war.
The dungeons point is not valid - my options are join in this style of play that I do not enjoy or stay at vr14 power levels or pay you a dukes ransom in gold for the stuff.
None of the things are available in other content, this is the first time new content has been gated in this way behind a play style not included in the base game that is toxic and divisive by design everywhere it exists.
And since I have no option but to pay for this through my sub I'd really like the option to enjoy it rather than feeling forced to behave like a mugger and spoil the fun of my fellow players just to get gear, Ii am preety sure I can beat the curve on this if I choose as with the rest of the content... I just don't think I will like myself very much if I do.
P.S. Although you keep talking about the other areas of PvE there is not a single area in the game where PvP is gated behind PvE content - nowhere do you have to do a trial to gain access to PvP, you don't have to complete a vet dungeon to do PvP you simply have to kill the necessary mobs to reach level 10. Here PvE content is locked behind not just PvP but spiteful PvP.Edited by Tavore1138 on August 1, 2015 11:25AM4 -
Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭"You can get materials for VR16 gear from PvE group dungeons as well (both old & new), or purchase them from other players. All sets bought with Tel Var stones are BoP, purchasable from other players."
Hello DDuke,
You again forgot to mention little details about materials for VR16 gear from old dungeons. It seems you often skip the detailed facts.
Despite the fact, that every old dungeon, scaled from VR1 to VR14, will have EVERY monster in dungeon drop appropriate gear in lvl from VR1 to VR14.
Despite the fact that that right now, any deconstructed gear with lvl from VR1 to VR14 will provide player from 3 to 4 crafting materials at once.
ZOS is making it work completly different for VR15 and VR16 gear, just to make sure more people are forced to enter IC, pay for access to new dungeons or be forced to do forced-PVP for TV stones.
So even if all old dungeons scale to VR15/VR16, there is major difference in drops of regular white/green decon crap gear.
In all old dungeons, gear in VR15/VR16 will ONLY drop from BOSSES AND MINIBOSSES. So a player who does old dungeon in that lvl, have a chance for ONLY 1 to 6 tops (because thats the usual number of bosses in dungeon, and there is no guarantee he will drop piece of gear. He might drop as well an old set piece -> zos said they wont be scaled up to VR15/VR16 i mean sets like ebon/worm cult etc.) pieces of crap VR15/VR16 gear. (While at the same time, in two new dungeons EVERY monster will have chance to drop VR15/VR16 gear)
Second thing ZOS made sure to change is that upon deconstructing VR15/VR16 gear a player have chance to obtain ONLY 1 (max 1) piece of crafting material (ingot, sanded wood, cloth/skin). This will result in players ending up with nothing after doing old dungeons.
Add to that the fact that VR16 gear requires 150 materials for one piece (where VR1 to VR15 gear requires normal number of materials).
Oh buy from other players? The players who bought it with TV stones? Sorry, this is not an option, a players shouldnt be forced to pay extortion for PVP gankers, who will earn their wealth on others misfortune (stealing and harassing other players for their TV stones). Because this is what it will be, lets finally call things by its name. Extortion. You pay a PVPer to go to IC, gank others and steal their stones so you can be safe. You pay for protection, a technique commonly used by mafia and criminals.
With a little details like this, ZOS made sure that they have an "excuse" to tell anyone "sure you can get VR16 gear outside of IC in all old content". Where technically its correct, practically the chance to get VR16 gear (And refined materials from deconstructing it) outside of IC is nonexistent.
Zos made sure to tune the numbers and mechanics to make sure, people will be forced to go to IC, people will be forced to buy DLC and go to new dungeons, people will be forced to support new mechanic of harassment -> looting TV stones from other players.
Oh not to mention the last thing, that how much is it for one raw piece of crafting mat? 100 TV stones? Multiply by 10 for probably 5 ingots, now by 30 so you can craft a whole friggin piece of VR16 gear.Edited by Rinmaethodain on August 1, 2015 6:59AM10 -
terryammon✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »I am not a fan of losing Tel Var Stones. There are going to be players who just sit on spawn points and farm TV stones from people. Maybe they just take a certain percentage from you instead of all of them.
How many did you lose on the PTS today, @OtarTheMad? And to how many enemy alliance players? Any additional details you could provide about your specific personal experience?
Lastnight i got jumped by 2 Red, they waited until i was in battle then attacked, i only lost 4k, but someone else by me lost over 10k, problems is, they wasn't silly, they jumped everyone and left, so we couldn't get them back
I would recommend having a cap on how many points a player can lose, setting it between 10-20%, enough to make hurt and still make people want to kill other players
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want VR16 sets to remain competitive in PvP in or out of IC.
You can get materials for VR16 gear from PvE group dungeons as well (both old & new), or purchase them from other players. All sets bought with Tel Var stones are BoP, purchasable from other players.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to remain competitive in PvE.
See above. None of the TV Stone sets are good for PvE.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to obtain new recipes, crafting ingredients or materials.
I'm fairly sure you can also purchase these from other players, or get from the group dungeons.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we do not choose to be held to ransom for these things by the players who do want to play in this very specialised way.
Then do the group dungeons.
Also, you are not being "held to ransom". Not any more than PvErs currently are (with half the BiS gear coming from PvP bags).*SuraklinPrime wrote: »The options you champion are being removed from a large chunk of players. Content aimed at non ganky players is being gated simply to entice into your line of fire, its a cheap strategy and cheap design.
Not true, as demonstrated above. You have the option of doing PvE group dungeons for all your needs, or purchasing the stuff you want, just like on Live server.SuraklinPrime wrote: »I am more than happy for you and those that want it to have your one v one ganking arena, but I also want OPTIONS to enjoy the content my sub helps pay for without being forced to play your way. This content removes options.
This content does not remove any of the following options:- Twenty 100% PvE zones
- Sixteen 100% PvE 4-man group dungeons, 8 with Veteran versions
- Three 100% PvE 12-man Trials
- Ridiculously huge PvP zone with focus on siege warfare**
What this content actually provides:- A new PvP game mode for people who enjoy that type of PvP
- Two new 100% PvE group dungeons (both with veteran versions)
Now, I'd be curious what options are being "removed"?
*Worthy to note, I've long provided feedback for ZOS to make things such as Trials sets good & worth using.
**Another point: Rewards for the Worthy will provide item sets scaled to V16.
Dungeon sets are fine but note all are BoP so cannot be sold on or traded with PvPers and the materials rate for decon is laughable. Obvious ploy to force crafters into the gank areas. Also forces you to do dungeons if you want those sets... Options?
That's a very good point, dungeon sets are all BoP (as they should be).
Yet, do you see any PvPer who absolutely hates group PvE complaining about this? No.
You have the option of doing these dungeons for the sets, or doing PvP for different ones. Like in... every MMO?
You couldn't get Arena gear in WoW without doing Arenas either, such is the way of things.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Isn't the set all tanks are going to want from TV stones and a couple of the possible better damage ones?
Well here's the good thing: these sets are BoE. You can complain all you want about the dungeon gear, but the sets bought with TV Stones can all be purchased with gold.
If it was up to me, these would be BoP as well so people would actually have to earn them (or atleast the VR16 version).
Oh, and none of the sets are good for damage dealers in their current state (or atleast I wouldn't wear any of them).
They are way too situational and/or group oriented.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Crafting essentials should never NEED to be purchasable, it removes much of the point nor are they available in dungeons from what we know so far, just from coming in and joining the gank war.
Materials come from VR15-16 gear which drops from every enemy in new dungeons and from every boss in the old dungeons. Sure, drop rates are lower & it takes more to craft BiS gear, but this is actually one of the most requested changes people have made: to make crafting actually require effort.
Now, if you think purchasing the materials with TV stones doesn't require enough effort (especially in comparison to the PvE method), then provide that feedback.SuraklinPrime wrote: »The dungeons point is not valid - my options are join in this style of play that I do not enjoy or stay at vr14 power levels or pay you a dukes ransom in gold for the stuff.
To be honest, it just sounds to me like you expect the Best in Slot gear to fall into your hands the moment you hit VR16.
It will require some effort (or gold) this time, and this is a good thing.SuraklinPrime wrote: »None of the things are available in other content, this is the first time new content has been gated in this way behind a play style not included in the base game that is toxic and divisive by design everywhere it exists.
The game doesn't cause toxicity, players create that (no matter what content).
The most toxic players I have met have been fellow DC PvErs in Cracked Wood Cave coming in to leech goblins & ruin XP for everyone (leaving me with getting some AD/EP friend to kill them and then we sling insults back & forth), and people leaving groups when doing dailies because we were clearing mobs too fast (yes, that really happened).
Anything that has ever happened to me in PvP pales in comparison...SuraklinPrime wrote: »And since I have no option but to pay for this through my sub I'd really like the option to enjoy it rather than feeling forced to behave like a mugger and spoil the fun of my fellow players just to get gear, Ii am preety sure I can beat the curve on this if I choose as with the rest of the content... I just don't think I will like myself very much if I do.
You can't enjoy every content they put in the game, nor can I or anyone else.
Games aren't made with one person's (or group's) tastes & personal preferences in mind.
I wonder how you'd feel if they added a 24-man progressive raid with awesome loot to the game in next DLC, or another Trial that is actually worth doing & provides good item sets.
You would probably again complain of the content not being catered for you specifically and demand the destruction of this new raid or Trial.SuraklinPrime wrote: »P.S. Although you keep talking about the other areas of PvE there is not a single area in the game where PvP is gated behind PvE content - nowhere do you have to do a trial to gain access to PvP, you don't have to complete a vet dungeon to do PvP you simply have to kill the necessary mobs to reach level 10. Here PvE content is locked behind not just PvP but spiteful PvP.
You could view this content as PvP gated by PvE as well.
If there are no enemy players around (or if they are behind mobs), you will have to PvE rather than PvP.
And some people have already stated they don't like it.
As someone who enjoys both PvE & PvP, I do. Same as many others.
@MaximusDargus ... please stop crying already, forums are getting water damage.
You can't get BiS gear in 5 minutes anymore? What a tragedy...
If you feel it's too easy to get good gear with TV Stones, then I suggest you do the same as @SuraklinPrime and leave feedback about that.
Alternatively, you could just create the 4th or 5th (?) QQ thread about it.Edited by DDuke on August 1, 2015 1:19PM0 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭terryammon wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »I am not a fan of losing Tel Var Stones. There are going to be players who just sit on spawn points and farm TV stones from people. Maybe they just take a certain percentage from you instead of all of them.
How many did you lose on the PTS today, @OtarTheMad? And to how many enemy alliance players? Any additional details you could provide about your specific personal experience?
Lastnight i got jumped by 2 Red, they waited until i was in battle then attacked, i only lost 4k, but someone else by me lost over 10k, problems is, they wasn't silly, they jumped everyone and left, so we couldn't get them back
I would recommend having a cap on how many points a player can lose, setting it between 10-20%, enough to make hurt and still make people want to kill other players
Why in the world were you carrying 4k stones!?!? That's just reckless play. This is no reason to change the system when you had a choice of risking those stones or banking them.Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard2 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want VR16 sets to remain competitive in PvP in or out of IC.
You can get materials for VR16 gear from PvE group dungeons as well (both old & new), or purchase them from other players. All sets bought with Tel Var stones are BoP, purchasable from other players.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to remain competitive in PvE.
See above. None of the TV Stone sets are good for PvE.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to obtain new recipes, crafting ingredients or materials.
I'm fairly sure you can also purchase these from other players, or get from the group dungeons.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we do not choose to be held to ransom for these things by the players who do want to play in this very specialised way.
Then do the group dungeons.
Also, you are not being "held to ransom". Not any more than PvErs currently are (with half the BiS gear coming from PvP bags).*SuraklinPrime wrote: »The options you champion are being removed from a large chunk of players. Content aimed at non ganky players is being gated simply to entice into your line of fire, its a cheap strategy and cheap design.
Not true, as demonstrated above. You have the option of doing PvE group dungeons for all your needs, or purchasing the stuff you want, just like on Live server.SuraklinPrime wrote: »I am more than happy for you and those that want it to have your one v one ganking arena, but I also want OPTIONS to enjoy the content my sub helps pay for without being forced to play your way. This content removes options.
This content does not remove any of the following options:- Twenty 100% PvE zones
- Sixteen 100% PvE 4-man group dungeons, 8 with Veteran versions
- Three 100% PvE 12-man Trials
- Ridiculously huge PvP zone with focus on siege warfare**
What this content actually provides:- A new PvP game mode for people who enjoy that type of PvP
- Two new 100% PvE group dungeons (both with veteran versions)
Now, I'd be curious what options are being "removed"?
*Worthy to note, I've long provided feedback for ZOS to make things such as Trials sets good & worth using.
**Another point: Rewards for the Worthy will provide item sets scaled to V16.
Dungeon sets are fine but note all are BoP so cannot be sold on or traded with PvPers and the materials rate for decon is laughable. Obvious ploy to force crafters into the gank areas. Also forces you to do dungeons if you want those sets... Options?
That's a very good point, dungeon sets are all BoP (as they should be).
Yet, do you see any PvPer who absolutely hates group PvE complaining about this? No.
You have the option of doing these dungeons for the sets, or doing PvP for different ones. Like in... every MMO?
You couldn't get Arena gear in WoW without doing Arenas either, such is the way of things.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Isn't the set all tanks are going to want from TV stones and a couple of the possible better damage ones?
Well here's the good thing: these sets are BoE. You can complain all you want about the dungeon gear, but the sets bought with TV Stones can all be purchased with gold.
If it was up to me, these would be BoP as well so people would actually have to earn them (or atleast the VR16 version).
Oh, and none of the sets are good for damage dealers in their current state (or atleast I wouldn't wear any of them).
They are way too situational and/or group oriented.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Crafting essentials should never NEED to be purchasable, it removes much of the point nor are they available in dungeons from what we know so far, just from coming in and joining the gank war.
Materials come from VR15-16 gear which drops from every enemy in new dungeons and from every boss in the old dungeons. Sure, drop rates are lower & it takes more to craft BiS gear, but this is actually one of the most requested changes people have made: to make crafting actually require effort.
Now, if you think purchasing the materials with TV stones doesn't require enough effort (especially in comparison to the PvE method), then provide that feedback.SuraklinPrime wrote: »The dungeons point is not valid - my options are join in this style of play that I do not enjoy or stay at vr14 power levels or pay you a dukes ransom in gold for the stuff.
To be honest, it just sounds to me like you expect the Best in Slot gear to fall into your hands the moment you hit VR16.
It will require some effort (or gold) this time, and this is a good thing.SuraklinPrime wrote: »None of the things are available in other content, this is the first time new content has been gated in this way behind a play style not included in the base game that is toxic and divisive by design everywhere it exists.
The game doesn't cause toxicity, players create that (no matter what content).
The most toxic players I have met have been fellow DC PvErs in Cracked Wood Cave coming in to leech goblins & ruin XP for everyone (leaving me with getting some AD/EP friend to kill them and then we sling insults back & forth), and people leaving groups when doing dailies because we were clearing mobs too fast (yes, that really happened).
Anything that has ever happened to me in PvP pales in comparison...SuraklinPrime wrote: »And since I have no option but to pay for this through my sub I'd really like the option to enjoy it rather than feeling forced to behave like a mugger and spoil the fun of my fellow players just to get gear, Ii am preety sure I can beat the curve on this if I choose as with the rest of the content... I just don't think I will like myself very much if I do.
You can't enjoy every content they put in the game, nor can I or anyone else.
Games aren't made with one person's (or group's) tastes & personal preferences in mind.
I wonder how you'd feel if they added a 24-man progressive raid with awesome loot to the game in next DLC, or another Trial that is actually worth doing & provides good item sets.
You would probably again complain of the content not being catered for you specifically and demand the destruction of this new raid or Trial.SuraklinPrime wrote: »P.S. Although you keep talking about the other areas of PvE there is not a single area in the game where PvP is gated behind PvE content - nowhere do you have to do a trial to gain access to PvP, you don't have to complete a vet dungeon to do PvP you simply have to kill the necessary mobs to reach level 10. Here PvE content is locked behind not just PvP but spiteful PvP.
You could view this content as PvP gated by PvE as well.
If there are no enemy players around (or if they are behind mobs), you will have to PvE rather than PvP.
And some people have already stated they don't like it.
As someone who enjoys both PvE & PvP, I do. Same as many others.
@MaximusDargus ... please stop crying already, forums are getting water damage.
You can't get BiS gear in 5 minutes anymore? What a tragedy...
If you feel it's too easy to get good gear with TV Stones, then I suggest you do the same as @SuraklinPrime and leave feedback about that.
Alternatively, you could just create the 4th or 5th (?) QQ thread about it.
As ever a reminder that I do PvP, a lot, and enjoy it - just don't like this sort of toxic PvP. Keep it in MOBAs amd CoD where it belongs and where players who enjoy it go to play it. Failing that don't lock most of an update behind a style of play that does no have mass appeal.
I could go on about hos the whole design of this DLC is aimed at luring in weak targets so players like you will have antarget rich environemt rather than the slim pickings that would be offered if they simply opened this type of PvP up as a battleground expansikn with no other content locked behind it. But it would be a loooonnngggg post.
I like PvP, I like trials standard and HM, I like running crafting routes and making gear, I like killing mobs, I like dungeons solo or group, I like questing - basically this sinthe first content I have not liked. And I only care about that becuase I will be forced to take part in an unpleasant system in order to get the gear I want to play all the content I do enjoy.
You know what I do not like? The 4 man questing in Craglorn... So I don't do it... BUT there is nothing locked behind that system that I need to play the game... Unlike this expansion. So I can choose not to play it.
Once again if you want to have high adrenaline player hunting areas then good luck to you but don't lock my content inside it simply so I am dragged into your crime simulator.
Oh yeah - and no issues with new trials etc. my one and only issue is with a system that puts content behind a wall of self appointed elite players who think robbing without the risk of even having to loot a corpse makes them cool and justifies them getting rich in the game.Edited by Tavore1138 on August 1, 2015 1:48PM2 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want VR16 sets to remain competitive in PvP in or out of IC.
You can get materials for VR16 gear from PvE group dungeons as well (both old & new), or purchase them from other players. All sets bought with Tel Var stones are BoP, purchasable from other players.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to remain competitive in PvE.
See above. None of the TV Stone sets are good for PvE.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to obtain new recipes, crafting ingredients or materials.
I'm fairly sure you can also purchase these from other players, or get from the group dungeons.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we do not choose to be held to ransom for these things by the players who do want to play in this very specialised way.
Then do the group dungeons.
Also, you are not being "held to ransom". Not any more than PvErs currently are (with half the BiS gear coming from PvP bags).*SuraklinPrime wrote: »The options you champion are being removed from a large chunk of players. Content aimed at non ganky players is being gated simply to entice into your line of fire, its a cheap strategy and cheap design.
Not true, as demonstrated above. You have the option of doing PvE group dungeons for all your needs, or purchasing the stuff you want, just like on Live server.SuraklinPrime wrote: »I am more than happy for you and those that want it to have your one v one ganking arena, but I also want OPTIONS to enjoy the content my sub helps pay for without being forced to play your way. This content removes options.
This content does not remove any of the following options:- Twenty 100% PvE zones
- Sixteen 100% PvE 4-man group dungeons, 8 with Veteran versions
- Three 100% PvE 12-man Trials
- Ridiculously huge PvP zone with focus on siege warfare**
What this content actually provides:- A new PvP game mode for people who enjoy that type of PvP
- Two new 100% PvE group dungeons (both with veteran versions)
Now, I'd be curious what options are being "removed"?
*Worthy to note, I've long provided feedback for ZOS to make things such as Trials sets good & worth using.
**Another point: Rewards for the Worthy will provide item sets scaled to V16.
Dungeon sets are fine but note all are BoP so cannot be sold on or traded with PvPers and the materials rate for decon is laughable. Obvious ploy to force crafters into the gank areas. Also forces you to do dungeons if you want those sets... Options?
That's a very good point, dungeon sets are all BoP (as they should be).
Yet, do you see any PvPer who absolutely hates group PvE complaining about this? No.
You have the option of doing these dungeons for the sets, or doing PvP for different ones. Like in... every MMO?
You couldn't get Arena gear in WoW without doing Arenas either, such is the way of things.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Isn't the set all tanks are going to want from TV stones and a couple of the possible better damage ones?
Well here's the good thing: these sets are BoE. You can complain all you want about the dungeon gear, but the sets bought with TV Stones can all be purchased with gold.
If it was up to me, these would be BoP as well so people would actually have to earn them (or atleast the VR16 version).
Oh, and none of the sets are good for damage dealers in their current state (or atleast I wouldn't wear any of them).
They are way too situational and/or group oriented.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Crafting essentials should never NEED to be purchasable, it removes much of the point nor are they available in dungeons from what we know so far, just from coming in and joining the gank war.
Materials come from VR15-16 gear which drops from every enemy in new dungeons and from every boss in the old dungeons. Sure, drop rates are lower & it takes more to craft BiS gear, but this is actually one of the most requested changes people have made: to make crafting actually require effort.
Now, if you think purchasing the materials with TV stones doesn't require enough effort (especially in comparison to the PvE method), then provide that feedback.SuraklinPrime wrote: »The dungeons point is not valid - my options are join in this style of play that I do not enjoy or stay at vr14 power levels or pay you a dukes ransom in gold for the stuff.
To be honest, it just sounds to me like you expect the Best in Slot gear to fall into your hands the moment you hit VR16.
It will require some effort (or gold) this time, and this is a good thing.SuraklinPrime wrote: »None of the things are available in other content, this is the first time new content has been gated in this way behind a play style not included in the base game that is toxic and divisive by design everywhere it exists.
The game doesn't cause toxicity, players create that (no matter what content).
The most toxic players I have met have been fellow DC PvErs in Cracked Wood Cave coming in to leech goblins & ruin XP for everyone (leaving me with getting some AD/EP friend to kill them and then we sling insults back & forth), and people leaving groups when doing dailies because we were clearing mobs too fast (yes, that really happened).
Anything that has ever happened to me in PvP pales in comparison...SuraklinPrime wrote: »And since I have no option but to pay for this through my sub I'd really like the option to enjoy it rather than feeling forced to behave like a mugger and spoil the fun of my fellow players just to get gear, Ii am preety sure I can beat the curve on this if I choose as with the rest of the content... I just don't think I will like myself very much if I do.
You can't enjoy every content they put in the game, nor can I or anyone else.
Games aren't made with one person's (or group's) tastes & personal preferences in mind.
I wonder how you'd feel if they added a 24-man progressive raid with awesome loot to the game in next DLC, or another Trial that is actually worth doing & provides good item sets.
You would probably again complain of the content not being catered for you specifically and demand the destruction of this new raid or Trial.SuraklinPrime wrote: »P.S. Although you keep talking about the other areas of PvE there is not a single area in the game where PvP is gated behind PvE content - nowhere do you have to do a trial to gain access to PvP, you don't have to complete a vet dungeon to do PvP you simply have to kill the necessary mobs to reach level 10. Here PvE content is locked behind not just PvP but spiteful PvP.
You could view this content as PvP gated by PvE as well.
If there are no enemy players around (or if they are behind mobs), you will have to PvE rather than PvP.
And some people have already stated they don't like it.
As someone who enjoys both PvE & PvP, I do. Same as many others.
@MaximusDargus ... please stop crying already, forums are getting water damage.
You can't get BiS gear in 5 minutes anymore? What a tragedy...
If you feel it's too easy to get good gear with TV Stones, then I suggest you do the same as @SuraklinPrime and leave feedback about that.
Alternatively, you could just create the 4th or 5th (?) QQ thread about it.
As ever a reminder that I do PvP, a lot, and enjoy it - just don't like this sort of toxic PvP. Keep it in MOBAs amd CoD where it belongs and where players who enjoy it go to play it. Failing that don't lock most of an update behind a style of play that does no have mass appeal.
I could go on about hos the whole design of this DLC is aimed at luring in weak targets so players like you will have antarget rich environemt rather than the slim pickings that would be offered if they simply opened this type of PvP up as a battleground expansikn with no other content locked behind it. But it would be a loooonnngggg post.
I like PvP, I like trials standard and HM, I like running crafting routes and making gear, I like killing mobs, I like dungeons solo or group, I like questing - basically this sinthe first content I have not liked. And I only care about that becuase I will be forced to take part in an unpleasant system in order to get the gear I want to play all the content I do enjoy.
You know what I do not like? The 4 man questing in Craglorn... So I don't do it... BUT there is nothing locked behind that system that I need to play the game... Unlike this expansion. So I can choose not to play it.
Once again if you want to have high adrenaline player hunting areas then good luck to you but don't lock my content inside it simply so I am dragged into your crime simulator.
Oh yeah - and no issues with new trials etc. my one and only issue is with a system that puts content behind a wall of self appointed elite players who think robbing without the risk of even having to loot a corpse makes them cool and justifies them getting rich in the game.
The only people I've heard describe PvP as "toxic" are anti-pvprs. Anti-pvprs will do and say anything like "I pvp" to attempt to validate their point. Kinda like racist. "Some of my best friends are..."Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard1 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭P.S. I think what my objection boils down to as against your cooments about existing areas is that when we signed up all the existing PvP design crafting approach and PvE was announced.
If this sort of grief flavoured PvP had been announced at all I probably would never have bothered with the game at all.
They didn't just add content they have changed the direction and style of the game and the tupe of players who are likely to be attracted to it.Edited by Tavore1138 on August 1, 2015 1:56PM3 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭P.P.S. I did not suggest crafting was too easy or too cheap. That is what people who don't bother doing it all say. What you could argue is it doesn't require fast reflexes or combat skills but in terms of time taken I could do SO with a good team upwards of 100 times in the time it takes to gather and refine the items needed for a full set of gold gear.
Math here is that you need 88 bits of gold upgrade mats for a full set and that requires around 20-24k raw mats to achieve depending on what materials you use but since some will be parallel gathering assume peak need of about 15k raw. Depending on the speed and node density of a crafting run that is liable to take around 100 hours give or take (I'm assuming you stop for herbs and other materials not just what you are focusing on).
In the same time assuming a 35-40 minute run plus time to reform the group, repair gear and chat run 100+ SOs on normal mode - which in my case would still leave me with 100 pieces of Eternal Yokeda... but that's a whole other grumble.Edited by Tavore1138 on August 1, 2015 2:35PM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »P.S. I think what my objection boils down to as against your cooments about existing areas is that when we signed up all the existing PvP design crafting approach and PvE was announced.
If this sort of grief flavoured PvP had been announced at all I probably would never have bothered with the game at all.
They didn't just add content they have changed the direction and style of the game and the tupe of players who are likely to be attracted to it.
They have provided more options for PvPers, they haven't "changed the direction".
Again, by your logic they should never add big epic raids, because some people might feel as strongly about them as you do about IC PvP.
By your logic, they should never add Battleground or Arenas, because some people might feel as strongly about them as you do about IC PvP.
Yet, to have a successful MMO you need to cater more people than @SuraklinPrime . Just look at WoW: they added PvP zones, Battlegrounds, Arenas, 20-man content etc... none of which existed at launch or were the initial design.
Again, what you view as "griefing" is not griefing in my mind, it's PvP according to the rules of this PvP zone (Imperial City). It does not happen in Cyrodiil, which has different "rules".
If you want to see true griefing, try grinding goblins in CWC. I can guarantee that atleast once a day you'll feel like punching the monitor because some *** DC player decides to start leeching the mobs and stealing your & your group mate's XP, making you all waste time.
That is griefing.
...And actually, since you mentioned Craglorn dungeons in your previous post, the reason I personally don't enjoy them is because there's no rewards gated behind them.Edited by DDuke on August 1, 2015 2:07PM0 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »P.S. I think what my objection boils down to as against your cooments about existing areas is that when we signed up all the existing PvP design crafting approach and PvE was announced.
If this sort of grief flavoured PvP had been announced at all I probably would never have bothered with the game at all.
They didn't just add content they have changed the direction and style of the game and the tupe of players who are likely to be attracted to it.
They have provided more options for PvPers, they haven't "changed the direction".
Again, by your logic they should never add big epic raids, because some people might feel as strongly about them as you do about IC PvP.
By your logic, they should never add Battleground or Arenas, because some people might feel as strongly about them as you do about IC PvP.
Yet, to have a successful MMO you need to cater more people than @SuraklinPrime . Just look at WoW: they added PvP zones, Battlegrounds, Arenas, 20-man content etc... none of which existed at launch or were the initial design.
Again, what you view as "griefing" is not griefing in my mind, it's PvP according to the rules of this PvP zone (Imperial City). It does not happen in Cyrodiil, which has different "rules".
If you want to see true griefing, try grinding goblins in CWC. I can guarantee that atleast once a day you'll feel like punching the monitor because some *** DC player decides to start leeching the mobs and stealing your & your group mate's XP, making you all waste time.
That is griefing.
I think adding extra features that poor old me won't enjoy is fine (such as 4 man quests in Craglorn) but in this particular content there is a lot of crafting and other content locked inside it which is not true of other changes - including most of the better options for VR15/16 gear/potions/craft mats and so on.
I get you want this style of play and that's fine, you and those who enjoy it can go right ahead - But why do you maintain that other content needs to be locked inside it too? Is it simply so you will have easy targets to kill? 'cos otherwise there are solutions that keep us both happy.3 -
Menelaos✭✭✭✭Sooo I have gathered some 3.000-odd Tel Var stones and wandered off to the Tel Var merchants and I have to say I am generally underwhelmed about what you can barter for them. Basically you have four merchants who trade in the new armour sets, two via randomized boxes and two with specific set items. Apart from maybe the Black Rose set I find the sets more or less average and their 5th bonusses are mainly pretty situational. You could argue they are meant for PVP but hey, IC is not for the PVPers alone. There should be reasonable options for PVErs also.
In my personal view I would like to trade my stones for other things. That leaves the crafting materials. Okay, for 1.500 TV I can get enough materials for a single Vet 15 piece of equipment. And it's pretty much the only source for the crafting mats apart from deconning stuff. In absence of other choices, that would be the way to got, but for a complete Vet 16 set you'd need 105.000 TV if my math is correct. That's where I would say something like 'You gotta be kidding me!' Farming the new dungeon sets will be much easier.
I could see three other options on how to handle TV stones: Consumables, Vanity and Alliance Points.- Trade your TV for potions, soul gems, repair kits and maybe food
- Trade a preferrably high amount of TV for unique costumes, Xivkyn Fragments and some cool new pets
- Trade 1 TV for something like 10 AP or so. Just to have a 'TV sink' when all other options are off the table
Thanks for considering!
My two Tel Var!
EDIT: You could also install a Tel Var store with books from Phrastus of Elinhir. Just saying...
Edited by Menelaos on August 1, 2015 2:21PM...und Gallileo dreht sich doch!
3 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want VR16 sets to remain competitive in PvP in or out of IC.
You can get materials for VR16 gear from PvE group dungeons as well (both old & new), or purchase them from other players. All sets bought with Tel Var stones are BoP, purchasable from other players.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to remain competitive in PvE.
See above. None of the TV Stone sets are good for PvE.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we want to obtain new recipes, crafting ingredients or materials.
I'm fairly sure you can also purchase these from other players, or get from the group dungeons.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Forced if we do not choose to be held to ransom for these things by the players who do want to play in this very specialised way.
Then do the group dungeons.
Also, you are not being "held to ransom". Not any more than PvErs currently are (with half the BiS gear coming from PvP bags).*SuraklinPrime wrote: »The options you champion are being removed from a large chunk of players. Content aimed at non ganky players is being gated simply to entice into your line of fire, its a cheap strategy and cheap design.
Not true, as demonstrated above. You have the option of doing PvE group dungeons for all your needs, or purchasing the stuff you want, just like on Live server.SuraklinPrime wrote: »I am more than happy for you and those that want it to have your one v one ganking arena, but I also want OPTIONS to enjoy the content my sub helps pay for without being forced to play your way. This content removes options.
This content does not remove any of the following options:- Twenty 100% PvE zones
- Sixteen 100% PvE 4-man group dungeons, 8 with Veteran versions
- Three 100% PvE 12-man Trials
- Ridiculously huge PvP zone with focus on siege warfare**
What this content actually provides:- A new PvP game mode for people who enjoy that type of PvP
- Two new 100% PvE group dungeons (both with veteran versions)
Now, I'd be curious what options are being "removed"?
*Worthy to note, I've long provided feedback for ZOS to make things such as Trials sets good & worth using.
**Another point: Rewards for the Worthy will provide item sets scaled to V16.
Dungeon sets are fine but note all are BoP so cannot be sold on or traded with PvPers and the materials rate for decon is laughable. Obvious ploy to force crafters into the gank areas. Also forces you to do dungeons if you want those sets... Options?
That's a very good point, dungeon sets are all BoP (as they should be).
Yet, do you see any PvPer who absolutely hates group PvE complaining about this? No.
You have the option of doing these dungeons for the sets, or doing PvP for different ones. Like in... every MMO?
You couldn't get Arena gear in WoW without doing Arenas either, such is the way of things.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Isn't the set all tanks are going to want from TV stones and a couple of the possible better damage ones?
Well here's the good thing: these sets are BoE. You can complain all you want about the dungeon gear, but the sets bought with TV Stones can all be purchased with gold.
If it was up to me, these would be BoP as well so people would actually have to earn them (or atleast the VR16 version).
Oh, and none of the sets are good for damage dealers in their current state (or atleast I wouldn't wear any of them).
They are way too situational and/or group oriented.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Crafting essentials should never NEED to be purchasable, it removes much of the point nor are they available in dungeons from what we know so far, just from coming in and joining the gank war.
Materials come from VR15-16 gear which drops from every enemy in new dungeons and from every boss in the old dungeons. Sure, drop rates are lower & it takes more to craft BiS gear, but this is actually one of the most requested changes people have made: to make crafting actually require effort.
Now, if you think purchasing the materials with TV stones doesn't require enough effort (especially in comparison to the PvE method), then provide that feedback.SuraklinPrime wrote: »The dungeons point is not valid - my options are join in this style of play that I do not enjoy or stay at vr14 power levels or pay you a dukes ransom in gold for the stuff.
To be honest, it just sounds to me like you expect the Best in Slot gear to fall into your hands the moment you hit VR16.
It will require some effort (or gold) this time, and this is a good thing.SuraklinPrime wrote: »None of the things are available in other content, this is the first time new content has been gated in this way behind a play style not included in the base game that is toxic and divisive by design everywhere it exists.
The game doesn't cause toxicity, players create that (no matter what content).
The most toxic players I have met have been fellow DC PvErs in Cracked Wood Cave coming in to leech goblins & ruin XP for everyone (leaving me with getting some AD/EP friend to kill them and then we sling insults back & forth), and people leaving groups when doing dailies because we were clearing mobs too fast (yes, that really happened).
Anything that has ever happened to me in PvP pales in comparison...SuraklinPrime wrote: »And since I have no option but to pay for this through my sub I'd really like the option to enjoy it rather than feeling forced to behave like a mugger and spoil the fun of my fellow players just to get gear, Ii am preety sure I can beat the curve on this if I choose as with the rest of the content... I just don't think I will like myself very much if I do.
You can't enjoy every content they put in the game, nor can I or anyone else.
Games aren't made with one person's (or group's) tastes & personal preferences in mind.
I wonder how you'd feel if they added a 24-man progressive raid with awesome loot to the game in next DLC, or another Trial that is actually worth doing & provides good item sets.
You would probably again complain of the content not being catered for you specifically and demand the destruction of this new raid or Trial.SuraklinPrime wrote: »P.S. Although you keep talking about the other areas of PvE there is not a single area in the game where PvP is gated behind PvE content - nowhere do you have to do a trial to gain access to PvP, you don't have to complete a vet dungeon to do PvP you simply have to kill the necessary mobs to reach level 10. Here PvE content is locked behind not just PvP but spiteful PvP.
You could view this content as PvP gated by PvE as well.
If there are no enemy players around (or if they are behind mobs), you will have to PvE rather than PvP.
And some people have already stated they don't like it.
As someone who enjoys both PvE & PvP, I do. Same as many others.
@MaximusDargus ... please stop crying already, forums are getting water damage.
You can't get BiS gear in 5 minutes anymore? What a tragedy...
If you feel it's too easy to get good gear with TV Stones, then I suggest you do the same as @SuraklinPrime and leave feedback about that.
Alternatively, you could just create the 4th or 5th (?) QQ thread about it.
As ever a reminder that I do PvP, a lot, and enjoy it - just don't like this sort of toxic PvP. Keep it in MOBAs amd CoD where it belongs and where players who enjoy it go to play it. Failing that don't lock most of an update behind a style of play that does no have mass appeal.
I could go on about hos the whole design of this DLC is aimed at luring in weak targets so players like you will have antarget rich environemt rather than the slim pickings that would be offered if they simply opened this type of PvP up as a battleground expansikn with no other content locked behind it. But it would be a loooonnngggg post.
I like PvP, I like trials standard and HM, I like running crafting routes and making gear, I like killing mobs, I like dungeons solo or group, I like questing - basically this sinthe first content I have not liked. And I only care about that becuase I will be forced to take part in an unpleasant system in order to get the gear I want to play all the content I do enjoy.
You know what I do not like? The 4 man questing in Craglorn... So I don't do it... BUT there is nothing locked behind that system that I need to play the game... Unlike this expansion. So I can choose not to play it.
Once again if you want to have high adrenaline player hunting areas then good luck to you but don't lock my content inside it simply so I am dragged into your crime simulator.
Oh yeah - and no issues with new trials etc. my one and only issue is with a system that puts content behind a wall of self appointed elite players who think robbing without the risk of even having to loot a corpse makes them cool and justifies them getting rich in the game.
The only people I've heard describe PvP as "toxic" are anti-pvprs. Anti-pvprs will do and say anything like "I pvp" to attempt to validate their point. Kinda like racist. "Some of my best friends are..."
You see I argue with Decimus because I don't agree with him on this but I respect his skill, same as with the good gankers on other alliances like Expiation, Repad and the like, people who when they kill me I curse them while admiring the skills, res at a keep and come out to have another try at getting them back... I believe he is genuinely looking for a challenge coupled with a rush that may not to be to my taste but it's an honest disagreement.
Now you can try and conflate having a contrary opinion with being racist if you like (and I'll be generous and not even report it because I pity your poor social skills more than I resent the stupid accusation) but doesn't change the fact that I PvP a lot, enjoy the PvP and am actually pretty reasonable at it.
I'd try and argue your point but you don't actually seem to have one apart from trying to make some sort of weird spurious accusation so maybe in the unlikely event that you have something worth saying at some point we could continue this in a more useful way?Edited by Tavore1138 on August 1, 2015 2:23PM7 -
Sykis✭There will always be some for of "gating" in games. If you want to best gear you have to challenge the hardest content. People rather in PVE or PVP will always find exploits. It's like hackers, while a lot of them do it for personal gain many do it just for the challenge. Some PVPers get pissed when the rewards they need to be competitive require some PVE content and vice versa for PVEers. If you want to best stuff you have to do the hardest content. Regardless of the platform used. I been in IC a few hours and rarely even pay attention to my stone count. I go back to my safe zone with my loots and find I normally have 100 to 600 stones. I'm not trying to be the 1st person to get all the best gear. I'm just enjoying the content. If this isn't for you or you have no constructive feedback then don't do it but don't get upset because it doesn't cater to your play style as your play style doesn't cater to that of the people who are enjoying this content for what it is.1
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wraith808✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »Oh yeah - and no issues with new trials etc. my one and only issue is with a system that puts content behind a wall of self appointed elite players who think robbing without the risk of even having to loot a corpse makes them cool and justifies them getting rich in the game.
See that's just needless generalizing to try to make a point. I wouldn't call myself elite, and out of the 3k+ stones that I accumulated testing, I only actually kept about 1k. But I enjoyed myself the whole time.
Why don't we give feedback on the system and try to make it better and remove the exploits rather than try to get them to gut the system? We see how well that worked (didn't) for Auction House. This is what they designed- as someone who sees the potential for exploit, why not try to constructively help to make it better?
Again, I think that 100% to the kill shot instead of an even distribution, having to loot the stones from the corpse, looting taking time, immunity during zoning, and scaling the potential loss by the number of times you die would be more than sufficient to make it not so onerous.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror1 -
victorhrpereira✭✭✭Yesterday was my third day of IC testing and I have played two classes so far, NB and DK (both magicka builds). All I can say from my experience is that, for TV stones farming, NB's have a HUGE advantage because of cloak and movement speed.
I was able to gank people, get their stones and run away from people trying to chase me with detect pots. Also, on the sewers, I could go through it with no problem, bypassing the mobs and ganking low health people that were fighting the mobs in there. I managed to store around 2k TV stones in a few hours of only pvping, I didn't even try to farm monsters.
So when I created a dragonknight and started playing it, I wasn't able to store TV stones at all. I felt slow, I could get away from combat using mist form sometimes but most of time when I got ganked by more than two players, I would just lose them. While in the sewers, things weren't very different with the enemies camping the doors.
So basically I had the most fun playing IC when I was carrying only a few stones with me because I didn't had to worry much about losing them at all.
Anyway, I'm NOT asking to nerf NB's or anything like that, but I think losing 100% of the stones is too much punishment for classes or builds that can't escape from combat at will.
My girls :
Cecily - Stam. DragonKnight - EP
Valky Bladesister - Stam. Nightblade - EP
Serah Sunspade - Stam. Templar - EP
Cynthia Vukein - Mag. Sorcerer - EP
Lúmina - Mag. Templar - EP
Shauna Ivy - Mag. DragonKnight - EP
Skyla Moon - Stam. Sorcerer- EP
Jasmine Crystal - Mag. Nightblade - EP4 -
Contraptions✭✭✭✭✭The 100% loss is a deal-breaker for me. Losing some of my progress when I die is annoying but fine, but I just don't like losing all of it. Especially when the loss to NPC rate is 10%, why would I in my right mind want to run through an open district and through multiple sewer sections to bank my stones when I can just suicide at an NPC and port back to base immediately? It's sad that the system has encouraged me to skip as much of these new areas as possible, because time and effort has gone into designing them (although I personally find the overall Coldharbour art style quite meh TBH. All these generic drab blue/gray ruined environments/sewers really reminds me of those bland FPSes). The suicide method is preferable to even the Teleport Stone, since unless i'm going to be carrying 5000 stones or more, which I HIGHLY doubt given my experience so far, it's ALWAYS going to be cheaper and faster to suicide (/stuck comes to mind here). Something is very wrong when I am GLAD to see the boss coming towards me with a big fat AOE and not running away going EEEEEEE. It's so fundamentally opposite to the ESO experience I know, so I'm not going to pay for it. Especially not for content that is more beneficial for me to to skip than to experience.
Reduce the loss to a flat 10% or remove it altogether. No way am I going to buy this if it stays at 100%.Patroller and Editor at UESP3 -
ZoM_Head✭✭✭✭The NPCs are really tough and hit hard.
It is just very unfair, when you work so hard to kill a monster/npc/finish a quest, get some stones, and you turn around and get killed by a player who takes everything you just worked so hard for.
It also just encourages other players to just gank and farm stones from other players that worked hard to get them.
I really do not think it is a fair system at all in its current state.
mDKs still need a lot of love!3 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭I've flip-flopped on my opinion so many times already in the last week. Long story short...I think maybe a "middle ground" is in order.
What if player-kills gave the victor 100% of the Tel Var stones the loser was carrying but on the losers end he only lost 1/2?
That still gives us "blood thirsty" PvP-types an incentive to seek out players to kill, but helps the less competitive players not feel so bad when they release back to their home base.0 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭The NPCs are really tough and hit hard.
It is just very unfair, when you work so hard to kill a monster/npc/finish a quest, get some stones, and you turn around and get killed by a player who takes everything you just worked so hard for.
It also just encourages other players to just gank and farm stones from other players that worked hard to get them.
I really do not think it is a fair system at all in its current state.
It's fair. Because you have the same opportunity to do the same.
I'm going to take this as an opportunity to explain the difference between Equal Opportunity and Equal Outcome.
As long as the same rules, regulations, obstacles and rewards exist for all parties then it is FAIR and represents Equal Opportunity.
You may not like it. It may be a bad system. But it's not an unfair system!1 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭[
The only people I've heard describe PvP as "toxic" are anti-pvprs. Anti-pvprs will do and say anything like "I pvp" to attempt to validate their point. Kinda like racist. "Some of my best friends are..."
Everyone who knows me, knows I only PvP.
I'm am very against this. The Imperial City with the threat of Daedric forces thrown into the mix offers a dynamic element to PvP. Just the other night, I finally get to finish a quest in the Nobles district. Previous attempts waiting for the northern gate mobs to spawn for the defense, I get jumped by a 6 man group of DC. No other AD in the area, and those DC just camped the same spot, so I was forced to return later for any hope at finishing this. I return later and it's quiet, great. So I have to defend all the doors again because it reset, during which, I bump into 2 EP while fighting a boss. It was a relieving to see that they were not blood-thirsty for my stones, they had the same goal as me, to finish this damn quest lol. So we end up working together, then part our ways.
My point? This is dynamic PvP. It does not have to be a mindless game of just killing other players. The Daedra add an additional element that makes this game feel more alive. It makes you have to choose your targets carefully. The current 100% removal of Tel Var stones is counter-productive to this. Nevermind the gang-banging promoting zerging and the crashes and other things ZOS clearly did not consider. The cost is too harsh, and it just makes players overly stingy and selfish. Unwilling to help a teammate in need because there "might" be 5 other enemy players stealthed for a cheap kill, so you'd rather save those 200 stones and just scurry back to your bank to store them and gg.6 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭olemanwinter wrote: »The NPCs are really tough and hit hard.
It is just very unfair, when you work so hard to kill a monster/npc/finish a quest, get some stones, and you turn around and get killed by a player who takes everything you just worked so hard for.
It also just encourages other players to just gank and farm stones from other players that worked hard to get them.
I really do not think it is a fair system at all in its current state.
It's fair. Because you have the same opportunity to do the same.
I'm going to take this as an opportunity to explain the difference between Equal Opportunity and Equal Outcome.
As long as the same rules, regulations, obstacles and rewards exist for all parties then it is FAIR and represents Equal Opportunity.
You may not like it. It may be a bad system. But it's not an unfair system!
I suspect it is a bad system because if the only logic you can offer to support it is that mugging is OK because anyone can be a mugger you know the world is basically messed up beyond repair.
That logic basically excuses any behaviour at all in real life or games...3 -
Laplace✭✭✭At the very least, something needs to be done about gate camping. That is the very definition of unfair. Ganking is one thing. Killing someone while they're on a loading screen while they're completely defenseless is just plain cheap.1 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭SuraklinPrime wrote: »olemanwinter wrote: »The NPCs are really tough and hit hard.
It is just very unfair, when you work so hard to kill a monster/npc/finish a quest, get some stones, and you turn around and get killed by a player who takes everything you just worked so hard for.
It also just encourages other players to just gank and farm stones from other players that worked hard to get them.
I really do not think it is a fair system at all in its current state.
It's fair. Because you have the same opportunity to do the same.
I'm going to take this as an opportunity to explain the difference between Equal Opportunity and Equal Outcome.
As long as the same rules, regulations, obstacles and rewards exist for all parties then it is FAIR and represents Equal Opportunity.
You may not like it. It may be a bad system. But it's not an unfair system!
I suspect it is a bad system because if the only logic you can offer to support it is that mugging is OK because anyone can be a mugger you know the world is basically messed up beyond repair.
That logic basically excuses any behaviour at all in real life or games...
Please give me a break. Mugging in real life? Really? I'm excusing real life behavior because I think our GAME doesn't need to be sanitized?
Have you killed any other players in PvP? Now how about real life murders?
I'm getting too old for this nonsense. You can believe whatever you want. I really don't care, but try to have some basic respect for language. I don't care what they choose to do with the stone system, but the proposed system is not UNFAIR.
"Fair" means things like:
"marked by impartiality"...."free from prejudice, or favoritism"......"open to legitimate pursuit, attack, or ridicule <fair game>"...."in accordance with the rules or standards; legitimate"
So, let's drop the hyperbole about RL muggings, reduce the fealz and embrace some realz.
The game is treating all players the same. That's FAIR. Language matters. Pick a different word.
Finally, as an aside, this is nothing like a mugging because players agree to the rules of the game and subsequent consequences and potential rewards when they enter the game. If you insist on making a real life comparison it's MOST LIKE GAMBLING. If you don't want to gamble, then don't. And don't venture into the Imperial City. If you lose all your money at the casino, don't call the cops complaining that you were 'mugged' by the casino.Edited by olemanwinter on August 2, 2015 5:03AM2 -
nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭olemanwinter wrote: »I'm getting too old for this nonsense. You can believe whatever you want. I really don't care, but try to have some basic respect for language. I don't care what they choose to do with the stone system, but the proposed system is not UNFAIR.
In real life everyone can get shot by a bullet through the head, everyone can stave, everyone can be brutalized. So according to your definition life is fair.....
The fact is that IC encourage negative behavior that create a negative social environment that cause damage to the game community in ESO.
ESO will be a different game after this, where the people with the worst behaviors will be the most successful where is used to be the most skilled and best organizers that were the most successful.
So it goes from positive social and personal skills that were rewarded in the game to being negative patterns that are rewarded and that will completely change how people will look at the game and regard the community they interact with.
The damage IC will do to the game population will be severe.8