phaseadept wrote: »

If the PC players are complaining, and it goes live in this state the console community is going to rage. Most console players are built for this exact type of griefing. They already do it in delves in PvP + groups of PC transfers that farm choke points throughout Cyrodiil.

Now that behavior is going to be rewarded?

This will destroy the game experience.

I promise you, console players will only spawn camp, door camp, and snipe people who are fighting bosses.

dude... you went into pvp expecting none of that to happen? Get rid of the game lol people are going to play that way regardless, and if you enter a dungeon in a PVP zone you have every right to be killed or killed while fighting a boss lol it is called risk.......

Spawn camping has no value with the new system since you drop 100% stones and people STILL do it........

Choke points is essential for offense/defense, so you honestly cant complain about that. You can get around it.....its like when I scream at all the pvp challenged AD members who keep going to bridge fight between aless and sej and EP just eats them up everytime, they dont learn. It is so simple to go around choke points if you know how to navigate the terrain lol

MaximusDargus wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

If the PC players are complaining, and it goes live in this state the console community is going to rage. Most console players are built for this exact type of griefing. They already do it in delves in PvP + groups of PC transfers that farm choke points throughout Cyrodiil.

Now that behavior is going to be rewarded?

This will destroy the game experience.

I promise you, console players will only spawn camp, door camp, and snipe people who are fighting bosses.

dude... you went into pvp expecting none of that to happen? Get rid of the game lol people are going to play that way regardless, and if you enter a dungeon in a PVP zone you have every right to be killed or killed while fighting a boss lol it is called risk.......

Spawn camping has no value with the new system since you drop 100% stones and people STILL do it........

Its not PVP. Its PVP + PVE. You cant tell people who go there for PVE content to gtfo just because you think that IC is meant to be 100% PVP.

It is now, and it will never be as long as there is any bit of PVE inside of Cyrio and IC. And untill that moment you will have to deal with what PVE players going to PVP area have to say.

@MaximusDargus I never told him to get out lol I never once said anything about pve..... read what he wrote, he is complaining about tactics in pvp and expected none of it to ever happen lol THAT is what I was referring too. People seem to forget the RISK part of pvp and then complain that it happens lol If he wants to pve in a pvp zone then be prepared to die...alot. If he cant handle that then pvp is not for him

phaseadept wrote: »

@OGLezard

I'm referring to the community reaction. It doesn't bother me much because the amount of needs that will follow this due to the console reaction will just cause the community to become more toxic as it relates to PvP.

If you don't realize this, I'd question your experience with MMOs

I have been playing MMOs for a very long time lol I have even played some where you lose EVERYTHING, not just some stones when you die in pvp.......... I misunderstood you and I will take the blame for that I suppose. However, my points still stand. If entering a pvp zone knowing the consequences is not enough to deter people from it who are not ready to deal with those consequences, then they should rethink what they want to do.

Please keep pve as carebear mode and let pvp stay how it is.... dont like being ganked, find ways around it. Dont like being killed at choke points find a way around it. Dont like being killed while trying to kill a boss inside a dungeon, which is located inside a pvp zone, then get a group to protect you (thats the way around it). If i came off as rude (which I am sure I did ) I apologize @phaseadept I am just sick of the game going in the carebear direction. Dont want to see that happen in pvp lol

EDIT: Peoples reactions are gonna vary from person to person medium to medium (console, pc). There is nothing anyone can do about that.

After reading most of this thread I'm conviced that somewhere there is a list of PVP rules that state "unless you walk directly up to a person and engage in a perfectly equal battle of fisticuffs" you're a cheater.

It's PVP. Guerrilla warfare (ganking) is a perfectly acceptable form of warfare.

phaseadept wrote: »

It's not a matter of carebear or not. There's content locked behind this zone.

Crafting locations, sets, etc. the sets aren't even PvP specific.

The community on consoles will rage. PC players handle this better in some regards, but console players tend to be a different bread. . . a very loud developer attention getting breed.

No. It's not.
All the gear is either from dungeons, which you can get to without PvP or Bind on Equip...which means you can still buy it. And as for locations in the city, if you don't want to lose stones...don't carry them!
They can be safely put in the bank ffs.

Stop trying to ruin an update for PvPers because it wasn't meant specifically for you.
Orsinium will be here in a few months and you'll get your zone of stupid mobs that you have little to no chance of dying to.

This is a PvP update. If you don't like it don't play it, but DON'T demand that it's changed just because you don't enjoy it.

You know what?
"I dislike Trials. So I demand that all trials be open PvP zones now."
See how silly and entitled that sounds?

cjthibs wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

It's not a matter of carebear or not. There's content locked behind this zone.

Crafting locations, sets, etc. the sets aren't even PvP specific.

The community on consoles will rage. PC players handle this better in some regards, but console players tend to be a different bread. . . a very loud developer attention getting breed.

No. It's not.
All the gear is either from dungeons, which you can get to without PvP or Bind on Equip...which means you can still buy it. And as for locations in the city, if you don't want to lose stones...don't carry them!
They can be safely put in the bank ffs.

Stop trying to ruin an update for PvPers because it wasn't meant specifically for you.
Orsinium will be here in a few months and you'll get your zone of stupid mobs that you have little to no chance of dying to.

This is a PvP update. If you don't like it don't play it, but DON'T demand that it's changed just because you don't enjoy it.

You know what?
"I dislike Trials. So I demand that all trials be open PvP zones now."
See how silly and entitled that sounds?

You are trying too hard. And you fail at it.

This update was ruined for PVPers the moment ZOS decided to put in any PVE content in it.

This is NOT PVPers update. Its both PVPers and PVE players update. ZOS did it to you. If ZOS would make IC a TRUE PVP. No quests, no dungeons, no exclusive VR15 VR16 gear. Make it so TV stones would ONLY come from player VS player combat.

That would be PVP update and then PVE players would have very little to do with it.

But no. ZOS decided to force PVP inside IC and lure PVE players with non-PVP content in IC. ZOS did it on purpose. So now dear PVP players, you HAVE to deal with PVE complaints and deal with us with respect.

What is Tel Var made of? Do I have Tel Var in me?

I got about 2k in 2 hours play (mostly in the sewers) and was able to bank them. I figured Tel Var was something that evil creatures generated and we heroes could pick up.

Then I went topside, with 0 stones in my inventory.

I was surprised to see that my death recap said I lost 70 stones when I was killed- several times. It deprived me of the slim pleasure of thinking "ha! you ganked me for nothing!"

I checked my bank and still had the same amount of stones- so... where did the stones that went to the gankers come from? Is my body generating them just by being in the Imperial City? If so, why can't I just carry around a bucket and expel them for myself?

If anyone has a link to the lore and logic surrounding the stones I'd appreciate seeing it!

MaximusDargus wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

phaseadept wrote: »

It's not a matter of carebear or not. There's content locked behind this zone.

Crafting locations, sets, etc. the sets aren't even PvP specific.

The community on consoles will rage. PC players handle this better in some regards, but console players tend to be a different bread. . . a very loud developer attention getting breed.

No. It's not.
All the gear is either from dungeons, which you can get to without PvP or Bind on Equip...which means you can still buy it. And as for locations in the city, if you don't want to lose stones...don't carry them!
They can be safely put in the bank ffs.

Stop trying to ruin an update for PvPers because it wasn't meant specifically for you.
Orsinium will be here in a few months and you'll get your zone of stupid mobs that you have little to no chance of dying to.

This is a PvP update. If you don't like it don't play it, but DON'T demand that it's changed just because you don't enjoy it.

You know what?
"I dislike Trials. So I demand that all trials be open PvP zones now."
See how silly and entitled that sounds?

You are trying too hard. And you fail at it.

This update was ruined for PVPers the moment ZOS decided to put in any PVE content in it.

This is NOT PVPers update. Its both PVPers and PVE players update. ZOS did it to you. If ZOS would make IC a TRUE PVP. No quests, no dungeons, no exclusive VR15 VR16 gear. Make it so TV stones would ONLY come from player VS player combat.

That would be PVP update and then PVE players would have very little to do with it.

But no. ZOS decided to force PVP inside IC and lure PVE players with non-PVP content in IC. ZOS did it on purpose. So now dear PVP players, you HAVE to deal with PVE complaints and deal with us with respect.

I can definitely feel that. While I think the focus if IC is on PvP, there's obviously loads of PvE content within. A blended zone like that is necessarily going to draw a blended crowd, but we need to stop trying to silo playstyles in a zone expressly not designed for it. PvE-only players are either going to need to shell out loads of gold for top-end gear and materials, or start experimenting with PvP. PvP-only players are going to need to deal with sweepers coming in and messing with their highly-competitive guild-v-guild fights, or go back to only playing on mainland Cyrodiil (though even then you have guards and such harshing on your battles). I'm all for constructive feedback to balance the needs of the players of any playstyle, but we can't keep expecting a complete design overhaul.

Judging by the long queues for all factions, things are going pretty damn good.

Recremen wrote: »

Yeah, they actually have two famous NPC in your home base talking about it, Lady Cinnabar and Phrastus of Elinhir! The stones are little pieces of White-Gold Tower, chipped off by daedra, doubtless for some nefarious purpose!! I'm sure we'll get the full story if we read all the books, listen to the quest dialogue, and finish the story.

Interesting. I'll have to look closer next time I'm in.

I did manage to finish the first quest and got rewarded in TV stones (sorry if that's a spoiler...) which leads me to even further confusion. Wouldn't the good guys be trying to... I dunno... glue the bits back on to the tower? Instead of using them as currency? The merchants alone must have enough to build an entirely new tower.

I find it all a bit implausible. I hope a full play-through will help it make more sense.

Always in threads like this you can clearly see the people salivating at ruining the gaming experience of others.

This thread will still be here, without changes (and ZOS is already announcing changes) the people complaining will shift to those talking about "but PvP zone"

By the time September rolls around this zone will play differently (ZOS is already making changes to entrance and exit points and adding immunity). . . and by October I bet we see damage reduction put back in.

phaseadept wrote: »

By the way, for the "competitive PvP people"

Think of the nerfs from other MMOs and why. If we want this game to still be fun, use caution in giving ZOS a why(reason) to make everyone play with nerfed weapons and abilities.

The game don't stop when you're hitting with foam, just makes the fights last longer. Heck that's a huge part of the appeal for IC to me, people can get back in the fight so fast it's like a constant stream of violence and mayhem. Someday it'll get so fast I'll cut someone down and their own rezzed body in the same stroke. Beautiful.

phaseadept wrote: »

That would be a fine argument if the zone wasn't already announced, advertised, and pushed into our hands with 'PVE' attached to it's name.
The description of the DLC is 'a sprawling PVE/PVP space'.Like, it's literally right there?

Notice how it's stated in your very post. PVE/PVP. It's a combination. Not a purely pvp zone, not a purely pve zone. It's for people who like the combination of the two at once. That's why it's in Cyrodiil. Just like Delves and Quests that are in Cyrodiil. Do you go to Cyrodiil for the PvE content? Then it's not for you. I do. I like PvE with a threat of PvP at all times. That's the itch the PvE portion in this is made to scratch.

ThyIronFist wrote: »

I'm playing on the PTS a lot and I'm enjoying the small scale. When this patch goes live next month small scale will become rare and there will be zergs in the imperial city, mark my words. You will see these 24+ man groups just running around farming and killing NPCs and players to get Tel Var stones. It will happen.

Bad players will hide behind their zergs as they do nowadays, playing on the live servers makes me mad as there are huge zergs and organized 24-48 man groups. I've seen it happen a lot lately especially on buff campaigns, and there is nothing you can do about it. You can't even have fair fights.

If these huge groups will enter the imperial city then whatever that is left of small scale and organized small group play will die out. It will either be go NB gank mode or run in a zerg to get your Tel Var stones.

Hyperbole has this magickal property of erasing nuance, I don't really recommend it. While zerging doesn't have good counters and definitely does happen, it's not the only playstyle out there. There are many guilds (NA servers, though) which only run smaller groups (24 or fewer) and do quite well. I'm a bit worried with IC in that the area is considerably smaller so a zerg can easily own a section of the city completely, but on the other hand I don't think they can own ALL sections at once even partially. With the way transport is set up, I think ZOS may have cleverly engineered a solution to at least that problem, as it doesn't seem the zerg will be able to move quickly enough between districts to crush people's fun constantly. We'll see how the dynamic plays out, and offer feedback as it goes.

ThyIronFist wrote: »

I'm playing on the PTS a lot and I'm enjoying the small scale. When this patch goes live next month small scale will become rare and there will be zergs in the imperial city, mark my words. You will see these 24+ man groups just running around farming and killing NPCs and players to get Tel Var stones. It will happen.

Bad players will hide behind their zergs as they do nowadays, playing on the live servers makes me mad as there are huge zergs and organized 24-48 man groups. I've seen it happen a lot lately especially on buff campaigns, and there is nothing you can do about it. You can't even have fair fights.

If these huge groups will enter the imperial city then whatever that is left of small scale and organized small group play will die out. It will either be go NB gank mode or run in a zerg to get your Tel Var stones.

I tend to agree because even small groups seem to win and lose completely based on numbers now. The reductions in damage, shields, and healing have created a situation where numbers = win. Just like with zergs on live. You either have the numbers or you don't.

That feeling has now extended to groups of 3 fighting 5, or groups of 5 fighting 8. In the 3 days I've played the PTS exclusively, I've very rarely seen an outnumbered group defeat others.

And small fights (1v1 and 2v2) take so long that they end up being decided by whoever shows up to tip the odds.

And just like in live with zergs, the answer to a system where numbers=win is to simply get more numbers. I think you are correct. First it will be groups of 6 being effective, then getting face rolled by groups of 10, then groups of 16, etc. etc.

It's like a nuclear arms race. Every time someone encounters a group of more players, they will just bring a larger zerg back themselves. It will only be a matter of time before anything less than 20 players running a "route" is a joke. I already witnessed a 20 man EP zerg clearing their side.

Now, having said that, this is where low-population PvP servers are going to be a godsend.