Vampires needing to slot ability to much of a punishment?

Corpsage · July 2015

Idk how this posted twice.

Kobaal · July 2015

Skwor wrote: »

Kobaal wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Clarebear wrote: »

Vampires are already committed to that choice of playstyle by the fact that being a Vampire we loose Health Regen and also take more Fire Damage. I think Werewolf needing to slot Ultimate makes sense to get their passives but they also don't get any negative effects if not in Werewolf form. So why make Vampires have to slot an ability when we already have a trade off we made.

Seriously? As was said above WW have to slot an ULTIMATE! and WW don't get super sneak. Vampires really have nothing to complain about.

I'm sorry but this mentality is really bad for the community. Personally I think its stupid to slot abilities for both WW AND Vamp. It's forcing both to slot an ability which I think is not a good idea. I agree WW players have it worse than vamps however, saying that WW players have it worse so don't complain is not the right mentality...

Please, I am sorry you are offended by someone who thinks differently than you. WW do not get super stealth speed and will have to slot an ultimate, Vampires from day one have always been a much more effective class. That I point this out and point out that vampires have it better is not a bad mentally, enough with the thought police already.

Life is not about telling others how to think so I would appreciate it if you would refrain from doing so. You can disagree with me and that is great but you have no right to tell me how to think.

Thanks for your concern but I am not offended. I'm sorry you felt I was telling you what to think, which was not my intention. You are telling me not to tell you what to think but its ok for you to tell OP what to think? Take your own advice my friend.

Here is your post:

"Seriously? As was said above WW have to slot an ULTIMATE! and WW don't get super sneak. Vampires really have nothing to complain about. "

Seems like your telling OP not to complain about Vamps because WW got it worse.... This type of reply does nothing to contribute to this thread.

Thanks for reading.

Azalin76 · July 2015

Does this include bat swarm? Most vamps usually have that on the bar so if that counts then no big deal. I agree that to become a ww or vamp just for the passives is not really what they had in mind, so making players use abilities is fair to me. I just wish they had ww abilities we could use in human form. I would rather see more traditional ww abilities like super health regen and immunity to disease and poison.

Skwor · July 2015

Kobaal wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Kobaal wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Clarebear wrote: »

Vampires are already committed to that choice of playstyle by the fact that being a Vampire we loose Health Regen and also take more Fire Damage. I think Werewolf needing to slot Ultimate makes sense to get their passives but they also don't get any negative effects if not in Werewolf form. So why make Vampires have to slot an ability when we already have a trade off we made.

Seriously? As was said above WW have to slot an ULTIMATE! and WW don't get super sneak. Vampires really have nothing to complain about.

I'm sorry but this mentality is really bad for the community. Personally I think its stupid to slot abilities for both WW AND Vamp. It's forcing both to slot an ability which I think is not a good idea. I agree WW players have it worse than vamps however, saying that WW players have it worse so don't complain is not the right mentality...

Please, I am sorry you are offended by someone who thinks differently than you. WW do not get super stealth speed and will have to slot an ultimate, Vampires from day one have always been a much more effective class. That I point this out and point out that vampires have it better is not a bad mentally, enough with the thought police already.

Life is not about telling others how to think so I would appreciate it if you would refrain from doing so. You can disagree with me and that is great but you have no right to tell me how to think.

Thanks for your concern but I am not offended. I'm sorry you felt I was telling you what to think, which was not my intention. You are telling me not to tell you what to think but its ok for you to tell OP what to think? Take your own advice my friend.

Here is your post:

"Seriously? As was said above WW have to slot an ULTIMATE! and WW don't get super sneak. Vampires really have nothing to complain about. "

Seems like your telling OP not to complain about Vamps because WW got it worse.... This type of reply does nothing to contribute to this thread.

Thanks for reading.

You are the one going going on about "this mentality" and bad for the community stuff, LOL typical busy body wanting everyone else to think like yourself. I express myself a certain way, you flat out tell me about my "mentality." Sorry no dice trying to equivocate back on me what you are actually doing.

Stay with the thread and stop telling me how to think.

Olivierko · July 2015

eNumbra wrote: »

Olivierko wrote: »

Dude, vampires have three abilities, if you become a vampire without using a single ability then you clearly don't need the skill line.

Having the diseases (ww/vamp) just for the passives is quite boring and I'm glad that they made this change, not like it changes anything really but we won't be seeing as many ww's as we have today.

This is the most ridiculous post I've ever seen.

In your opinion, not using the active skills on the line is boring and therefore people should be forced to use them.

So by all means, elaborate why on earth you need a skill line if you don't intend to use the skills unless it's for RP reasons.

eNumbra · July 2015

Olivierko wrote: »

So by all means, elaborate why on earth you need a skill line if you don't intend to use the skills unless it's for RP reasons.

I'm using the passive skills.

Regardless, why should I be required to justify why I want the skill line. In what sane reality should someone have to use the active skill to gain the racial benefit of the vampire? If I'm taking the Health regen reduction and the massive fire damage and the fighters guild vulnerability, I think it's fair that I get 10% stam and magicka.

Sithisvoid · July 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Kobaal wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

I became vamp because I'm a magicka nightblade and I like the movement speed increase while stealthed and the Magick regen passive.

Do you honestly find that those make up for the lack of health regen and the fire weakness? Because I just don't see it... If you're not going to use at least one of the Vampire active abilities, Vampirism is strictly a disadvantage.

If no one sees you then what is some health regen and extra damage? It absolutely makes up for it.

Olivierko · August 2015

eNumbra wrote: »

corwinDA wrote: »

So by all means, elaborate why on earth you need a skill line if you don't intend to use the skills unless it's for RP reasons.

I'm using the passive skills.

Regardless, why should I be required to justify why I want the skill line. In what sane reality should someone have to use the active skill to gain the racial benefit of the vampire? If I'm taking the Health regen reduction and the massive fire damage and the fighters guild vulnerability, I think it's fair that I get 10% stam and magicka.

Which again takes us back to everyone running around as vampires and werewolf's just for obtaining the passives, with the reduction to fire damage taken vampire's would be even more common than they already are.

Maybe a better solution would be to make the same implementation as some of the current skill lines use, based on X amount of slotted skills you gain a higher passive.

I really can't see the issue here, if anything; werewolf's need more skills or a revamp since they only can slot the ultimate.

revonine · August 2015

While I understand the reasons for these changes I don't like the fact you'll have to have an ability slotted on both your bars to have the passive activated on both. Currently I have mist and devouring swarm on my resto bar and thats's it. Although it MIGHT be worth it if the changes to drain sound as good on paper as they do in practice.
I have no access to the PTS so I asked in the PTS forums about this so it's true you need an ability slotted on both bars. Idk about werewolf though.

eNumbra · August 2015

Olivierko wrote: »

Which again takes us back to everyone running around as vampires and werewolf's just for obtaining the passives, with the reduction to fire damage taken vampire's would be even more common than they already are.

which is why they shouldn't take it. It was never an unreasonable vulnerability, making the passives a base and slotting actives for bonus would be reasonable, requiring the actives for the passives to work is silly.

You're always a vampire/werewolf. No passive should disappear if you don't have an ability slotted.

corwinDA · August 2015

Corpsage wrote: »

The changes coming to Vampires SUCK. As a magicka Templar I chose to become a Vampire SPECIFICALLY for the regen passives. Do I have room on my bar(S) for a Vampire ability, no. Not without sacrificing something I actually NEED on my bar(S). As a Vampire I constantly take more damage from fire attacks as well as the loss of health regen, because I am 100% of the time a Vampire. There's no transformation, this is now my full being. Does it make sense that I dont feel certain effects because I chose to not have Vampire specific abilities slotted? Absolutely not when I am 100% of the time in game a Vampire.

This will be my last post on this thread but when I saw this and since it applies to me as well I still do not see the problem with what their doing. I have two choices, keep the buffs and slot an ability which even on my restoration bar has one open slot for such an emergency or take the cure and respec as a non vampire. Personally for PvE vet dungeons im thinking mist form so I can get that extra damage reduction which could become my personal oh crud button im going to get hit. Now I could just take the cure since I went breton im already rocking more than helpful passives to begin with. This is a game not real life and to balance a "game" some things must be done that won't make sense in real life situations. We need to accept some of these changes a just year old mmo will make and figure out our own best solutions. This guy had a good post much better than op in my opinion and a lot of the other posts are all about loosing their passive mini max advantage and for those I say just wait Sipher or Deltia to do your thinking for you.

Halke · August 2015

eNumbra wrote: »

corwinDA wrote: »

So by all means, elaborate why on earth you need a skill line if you don't intend to use the skills unless it's for RP reasons.

I'm using the passive skills.

Regardless, why should I be required to justify why I want the skill line. In what sane reality should someone have to use the active skill to gain the racial benefit of the vampire? If I'm taking the Health regen reduction and the massive fire damage and the fighters guild vulnerability, I think it's fair that I get 10% stam and magicka.

This. Guys, you do know that WW doesn't take extra poison damage unless they are in WW form, right (which btw their poison damage is getting reduced too). It just makes sense that they get the positives when they get their negatives (and even with the skill on your bar you never have to activate it). Vampires have their negatives all the time, and now with this change they only get the positives when actively using their vamp skills. You do see why that wouldn't be considered fair, right?

Also, PvP isn't everything, just throwing that out there.

CidxLucy · August 2015

Clarebear wrote: »

Vampires are already committed to that choice of playstyle by the fact that being a Vampire we loose Health Regen and also take more Fire Damage. I think Werewolf needing to slot Ultimate makes sense to get their passives but they also don't get any negative effects if not in Werewolf form. So why make Vampires have to slot an ability when we already have a trade off we made.

Look at the IC updated for WW
WW willnt get there 15% sta reg if not lb sloted

hamon · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

dark stalker

Corpsage · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

By that logic there's no point in being a Werewolf if you don't transform.

eNumbra · August 2015

Corpsage wrote: »

By that logic there's no point in being a Werewolf if you don't transform.

Well, for Werewolves that's actually true(or at least, truer): the actives and passives are only useable/accessible in the transformed state, if you're putting skill points into WW without using the Ult, why are you a WW? Just for the stam regen?

UrQuan · August 2015

Corpsage wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

By that logic there's no point in being a Werewolf if you don't transform.

And there shouldn't be any point in being a Werewolf if you don't transform...

simena9292 · August 2015

Can i just slot the ultimate bat swarm or so it have to be a normal ability?

Funkopotamus · August 2015

Skwor wrote: »

wafcatb14_ESO wrote: »

They Need to make Vampires Kos to all guards and Npc won`t interact with them in stage 4.

^ This^

Yea and every cat in every town should jump on WW faces doing 9k damage per sec!
And give you guys cat scratch fever!

Stravokov · August 2015

Vampire's at least have useful abilities. Bat Swarm is always useful. Mist form is... meh to me since you dont regen Magicka when in mist form. as for Drain Essence, it use to suck. but with the upcoming changes on PTS, it looks like it will become a viable skill for heal/damage/stun.

Halke · August 2015

Stravokov wrote: »

Vampire's at least have useful abilities. Bat Swarm is always useful. Mist form is... meh to me since you dont regen Magicka when in mist form. as for Drain Essence, it use to suck. but with the upcoming changes on PTS, it looks like it will become a viable skill for heal/damage/stun.

The three second channel time worries me though and will keep me from putting it into my DPS rotation. Guess I will have to find a place on my bar for mist form >.<

starkerealm · August 2015

Wait, so vampire's "punishment" is, "oh god, I must equip one of these egregiously powerful abilities on my bar?! No! How will I ever survive!?"

Seriously, all three abilities are very potent. Essence Drain still has a stun and a massive damage throughput. And now it's no longer a conditional skill. The new version of Drain is amazing.

Mist Form. it's got uses, I'm not a huge fan, but I'm not about to say "that's stupid." It is a good ability in the right hands and circumstances.

Batswarm is god tier. Devouring Swarm is hilarious (unless it got nerfed again, which I didn't see.) Even though it's not as cheap as it once was, it's still a solid ability. It's not the best ultimate in the game, but devouring swarm is a fantastic panic button, even after the nerfs it got way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

revonine · August 2015

simena9292 wrote: »

Can i just slot the ultimate bat swarm or so it have to be a normal ability?

Of course. But you need a vamp ability slotted on both bars for the passive to work on both.

starkerealm · August 2015

Halke wrote: »

Stravokov wrote: »

Vampire's at least have useful abilities. Bat Swarm is always useful. Mist form is... meh to me since you dont regen Magicka when in mist form. as for Drain Essence, it use to suck. but with the upcoming changes on PTS, it looks like it will become a viable skill for heal/damage/stun.

The three second channel time worries me though and will keep me from putting it into my DPS rotation. Guess I will have to find a place on my bar for mist form >.<

I could be wrong, but I think, with Drain had it's movement debuff removed, so you can move around freely while using it now. It's still got a 3 second channel, but it's a lot less debilitating to the user on PTS.

Kulvar · August 2015

People need to realize that werewolf and vampire are curses intended not as free mandatory bonuses everyone should have, but for people intending to use them for whatever reason (like fun). They're not meant to be mandatory/must have for everyone. They are supposed to stay uncommon. And these changes help that goal.

Clarebear · August 2015

Please don't argue with people or just dismiss how someone feels regarding this topic. Please feel free to discuss the topic with Constructive Feedback. I would like this post to be Constructive and Useful to the community .

Kendaric · August 2015

Kulvar wrote: »

People need to realize that werewolf and vampire are curses intended not as free mandatory bonuses everyone should have, but for people intending to use them for whatever reason (like fun). They're not meant to be mandatory/must have for everyone. They are supposed to stay uncommon. And these changes help that goal.

Exactly. The game isn´t meant to be Twilight Online or World of Darkness Online, I welcome the change if it makes vamps and werewolves less common.

starkerealm · August 2015

I think I've said this before, but I'd honestly like to see this Vampire nerf expanded.

Not, nerf them harder. But, play harder into this kind of a mechanic.

The thought process I had was, if you have no equipped vampire abilities your feeding timer freezes. You still show up as undead, you still have the fire and fighter's guild weakness, and you've still got the penalty to your health regen rate (if you're suffering from one now.) Finally the visual for your current stage is -1. So if you're at Stage 1 you appear human. If you're at stage 2 you appear to be stage 1, and so on.

If you have one active equipped your timer activates, you get your bonuses from the disabled passives. Your visual appearance matches your stage. You're obviously a vampire. You have a long duration between stages. 2h for instance.

If you have two vampire abilities equipped your current stage is visually active, your duration between stages is moderate. 1h for instance.

If you have all three equipped, your current stage is visually one higher than your actual stage (with a possible cap at looking like Stage 4 or an alternate more blood starved Stage 5 look. Your time between stages is short (30m).

I'd then suggest synergistic passives on the vampire skills that stack up based on the number of equipped vampire skills. So Mistform might give you +4% spell resist for each equipped vampire skill. Drain might give +4% health per equipped vampire skill. Batswarm might give -4% magicka costs for each equipped Vampire skill.

Maybe even with new powers, like Vampiric strength (each equipped vampire skill gives +2% weapon damage) or Immortal Insights (each equipped Vampire skill gives +2% spell power.)

So you can actually start stacking together pure vampire builds that could potentially be very synergistically strong. I'd then suggest tying your fire vulnerability to your equipped vampire skills. You can never go below -25%, but each one adds +5% vulnerability, or something like that. Or each one could give a small boost and a small penalty. Like drain giving +4% health, but -2% health regen.

It would make vampires a lot more interesting than just, "well, I do this to get some neat powers." It might even be a good venue for adding those kill on sight tier vampires some players want, without crippling the play-style entirely. If you're only eligible for that if you're visually at Stage 5 or some higher visual stage.

usrevenge · August 2015

I think werewolves and vampires both need a complete revamp, with a 3rd non monster faction (knights of stendarr?)

Saturn · August 2015

It makes sense to me. In the singleplayer games, becoming afflicted was always a choice you had to make, since you could get cured. Sticking with the affliction meant you had to adapt to the playstyle given to you, in Oblivion as a vampire you only went out at night. I know that ESO is not the same, but I think it makes sense to have players commit to being a Vampire/Werewolf, instead of just forcing players to get afflicted in order to get equal stats.