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Vampires needing to slot ability to much of a punishment?

  • StrykerTheElite
    look how stupid if all passives in game can be activated without sometype of active ability. Thats like I want light, medium passives to be applied while I am wearing heavy armor.

    WW passive was trying fix people taking advantage of stam without actually being a ww, which is quite stupid same thing as vamp.

    All they need to do is buff ww first thing lower cost of ult because people need to go in and out of form. I say 75 cost would be fine. then instead 75% negative as vamp gets to health they need 75% increase to health regen.

    All they need to fix vamps is make passive work in reducing stages 2-4 regeneration .
  • Pirhana7_ESO
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    Kobaal wrote: »
    Its not as bad as WW having to slot their ult but I think its pretty stupid that I am now forced to slot a vamp ability. I currently don't use any in my builds but I guess I'll have to start using mist form now on both my bars...

    Really a stupid idea ZOS.

    Thanks for reading.

    actually its a really good idea. they want you to play a vapire to actually be a vampire and use their abilities. not just get free passive abilities
  • bcwhiteh_ESO
    I don't even see how anyone could consider having to slot a Vampire ability a bad thing in the first place since literally every Vampire uses at least 1 skill. I mean really what kind of Vampire runs around Cyrodiil without that Mist Form skill slotted? Excluding the Vampires that are not high enough level in the skill line that is. Not to mention I've seen Vampires in Cyrodiil use the Ultimate skill as well and personally I believe having that drain skill you start with slotted is not a disadvantage especially with the upcoming patch.

    There is a game beyond Cyrodiil, FYI.

    I'm a vamp, and purely for the magicka regen. I don't have any room on either bar for a useless vamp ability in PvE.

    Most people go Vampire for the PvP benefit same as people went Werewolf for the Stamina Recovery. I am aware people do choose for reasons other than that but for those that do there really is no penalty since they use the skills readily. Even in PvE the skills can have merit but whether you choose to use them or not is up to you though.


    I'm not sure how I could make this more clear.

    I have absolutely no room from the 10 abilities I have to work with to lose 1 of them for a skill I don't need or want. They have no merit, I'm a magicka based Templar healer. I don't need the extra DPS abilities or the escapes, nor is there room on my bar for them even if I did.

    I don't care what most people do. That's what I do. It's nothing but a straight nerf to my magicka regen, and a harsh one at that.
  • Hope499
    Hope499
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    WW have it worse.

    EVERYONE will be converting from WW to vampire. I already know 90% of the WW I know are.

    No one wants to be a WW anymore, and only negative was that FIRE DMG when being a vamp.


    Watch, the amount of vamps increasing will be insane.
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  • Halke
    Halke
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    Kobaal wrote: »
    Its not as bad as WW having to slot their ult but I think its pretty stupid that I am now forced to slot a vamp ability. I currently don't use any in my builds but I guess I'll have to start using mist form now on both my bars...

    Really a stupid idea ZOS.

    Thanks for reading.

    actually its a really good idea. they want you to play a vapire to actually be a vampire and use their abilities. not just get free passive abilities

    You don't get a free passive. With vampire to get the regen you: Have to spend points into the skill, take 25% (with the update) more fire damage at all times, and have reduced heath regen.
  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    What about stam vampire's tho. We have to slot an ability and there are no stam option's.
    PS4 NA DC
  • eNumbra
    eNumbra
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    look how stupid if all passives in game can be activated without sometype of active ability. Thats like I want light, medium passives to be applied while I am wearing heavy armor.

    Stop.

    You can use Armor active abilities without wearing the corresponding armor.
  • Azurulia
    Azurulia
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    Halke wrote: »
    nine9six wrote: »
    Corpsage wrote: »
    This is really just a straight nerf to magicka regen for Vamp users.

    Call a spade a spade.

    And it's a terrible nerf that makes Vamp pretty much useless for a lot of people, myself included.

    why would someone even go a vamp if they didn't use the skills?

    I'm so confused you obviously use the skills as thats the main point of a vamp being able to use vamp skills on a normal bar.

    Ok, so mist isn't that good, likely because most people try to escape with it -_- (it's not an escape skill)

    Devouring swarm is such a great Ultimate, Aoe which heals and moves with you? , why don't people slot it, even if you have a main dps skill this is still a great defensive one..

    The answer is simple, none of the abilities are as viable for damage output OR healing as class/weapon skills.

    THIS!

    When I'm out PvEing in the open world, having one ability on my bar is fine. I can live with that. The Ult is on my bar 90% of the time during this.

    When I do anything group-related (Healer) I have 0 reasons to have any of the skills slotted.

    Just going to quote you for the amount of truth in this.

    Like wise. Because damn... That hurts a healer grouping real bad.
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  • lsneakl
    lsneakl
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    So I read this thread and unless I missed it no one is going to stop being a Vamp/WW all together and be human. So that in my mind equals they have not made it negative enough yet...

    Being a Vamp/WW should be something that only a small percentage want to be.
  • chevalierknight
    chevalierknight
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    As a nightblade ill be get 15% from shadow passive no so dont care im vampire for speed alone

    Anyone know if i have bats on my second bar will i get the regen when on main bar?
  • OzJohnD
    OzJohnD
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    lsneakl wrote: »
    So I read this thread and unless I missed it no one is going to stop being a Vamp/WW all together and be human. So that in my mind equals they have not made it negative enough yet...

    Being a Vamp/WW should be something that only a small percentage want to be.

    agree, being a werewolf and a vampire should only be available to the few

    8920923_orig.jpg



    Edited by OzJohnD on August 5, 2015 1:57AM
    Everyone knows the phenomenon of trying to hold your breath underwater - how at first it's alright and you can handle it, and then as it gets closer and closer to the time when you must breathe, how urgent the need becomes, the lust and the hunger to breathe. And then the panic sets in when you begin to think that you won't be able to breathe - and finally, when you take in air and the anxiety subsides...that's what it's like to be a vampire and need blood.

    Francis Ford Coppola - BS Dracula: The Film and the Legend




  • Korah_Eaglecry
    Korah_Eaglecry
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    look how stupid if all passives in game can be activated without sometype of active ability. Thats like I want light, medium passives to be applied while I am wearing heavy armor.

    WW passive was trying fix people taking advantage of stam without actually being a ww, which is quite stupid same thing as vamp.

    All they need to do is buff ww first thing lower cost of ult because people need to go in and out of form. I say 75 cost would be fine. then instead 75% negative as vamp gets to health they need 75% increase to health regen.

    All they need to fix vamps is make passive work in reducing stages 2-4 regeneration .

    Its not the players fault that the only advantage to being a werewolf was the stamina regen. That falls on ZOS for not buildng a more interesting and useful sub-class. If people were ignoring the transformation and abilities. Its because they were sub-par to every other ability/ult that someone could slap on their tray. Thats ZOSs fault.

    All ZOS has done is once again made WW a useless sub-class to have. The only people that will keep it are RPers and those who are okay with gimping themselves (Not that Im saying they dont have that right to make their builds as effective or ineffective as theyd like). But in general Vampires are once again the preferred sub-class over WW.

    Im willing to bet that in 6 months time ZOS will be making ANOTHER change to the WW sub-class in an attempt to once again draw players back to it. Just once Id like them to stop and consider the changes theyre making and the changes theyve made in the past before pushing it out the door.

    Im willing to bet plenty of the players that never transform but take advantage of the stamina regen would utilize the ultimate if it was worth a ****.
    Edited by Korah_Eaglecry on August 5, 2015 2:13AM
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  • TooColdToCrack
    TooColdToCrack
    Soul Shriven
    Kobaal wrote: »
    Not stupid you just have to learn to adjust.

    That's why I said I will have to start using Mist form.... I still think its a stupid decision.


    Mist form is garbage. Why wouldn't you use Morphed ultimate for the Insta God mode?
  • Clarebear
    Clarebear
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    Thanks for all the feedback so far....
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
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    eNumbra wrote: »
    look how stupid if all passives in game can be activated without sometype of active ability. Thats like I want light, medium passives to be applied while I am wearing heavy armor.

    Stop.

    You can use Armor active abilities without wearing the corresponding armor.

    I thought those still scaled with the number of pieces equipped... or am I just thinking of the morphs?
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  • Alucardo
    Alucardo
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    I don't understand.. you're a Vampire.. why would having to slot at least one Vampire ability in your bar be considered a punishment? I totally agree with the requirement of having at least one vampire ability slotted. Werewolves have to do it too (and we have to slot a damn ultimate), so why shouldn't Vampires? Besides devouring swarm is one of the best spells in the game hands down. Being a vampire sorc at stage 4 the ultimate will cost next to nothing, so it almost becomes spammable. I think it's possible to get it down to something stupid like 65 ultimate.

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  • 21jws10
    21jws10
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    It's only one passive.
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  • eNumbra
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    I thought those still scaled with the number of pieces equipped... or am I just thinking of the morphs?

    There are some bonuses (duration iirc) that stack depending on how many of the armor you're using, but all of them have a base duration and can be used by a character who is completely naked.
  • GreenSoup2HoT
    GreenSoup2HoT
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    Question

    Do you loose ALL the passive's if you don't have a vampire ability on slot?

    Or

    Is it just the recovery passive you loose.
    .
    .
    Personally i think this change should of only went to Werewolf's. People were abusing the stamina regeneration passive without utilizing werewolf at all.

    I personally have no use for any of the vampire ability's apart from the ultimate as a stamina nightblade. However as a vampire you have permanent draw back's. Less health recovery and extra damage against fighter's guild skill's and fire. So if i don't slot any vampire ability's i don't get any benefit's from the passive's but get de-buffed? Logic...
    Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on August 26, 2015 8:44PM
    PS4 NA DC
  • angelyn
    angelyn
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    Mitchblue wrote: »
    Can't be any worse than having a Sorc pet build and have both pets slotted on both bars...
    Good point. Even worse-What if you are a vampire sorc(or werewolf, although not as likely)who wants to slot any combination of pets/ magelight/bound armor? ZOS is trying to encourage pet builds :wink: There might be a drop in sorcerer vampires/werewolves. The class already has many toggles so this combination is nigh impossible and, if possible probably not enjoyable or effective.E ither that or they will continue to be a vamp/ww and drop most(if not all) toggles. On my sorc ( who is a vampire) I will most likely slot batswarm and mistform and dismiss toggles( I did try the toggle build and it left me with 2 buttons to press..not fun for me personally)

    And in general what I think about the changes:
    If people have invested time to train up the skill line that they have been offered and then invested points into those passives,why should they then have to cross a 3rd hurdle (slotting the ability on both bars)? Especially, when you consider that there are many other skill lines in the game whose passives work, without having to slot the abilities on both bars.( I realise that there are passives that do more, if you slot more of that lines abilities though).

    As far as Im aware we were not told the reasoning behind these changes so I can only guess at the issues.Perhaps the direction to go would be to make the alternative more appealing :smile: :smile:

    - If the issue is that they are trying to make not becoming a vamp/WW as appealing as becoming them, Make being plain old X race appealing with..I don't know -a buff of purity or perhaps a "non creature" skill line. Why make 2 skill lines in the game unappealing and restrictive, when you could have 3 skill lines that are enjoyable and improve build creativity/diversity.

    - If the issue is that people don't slot the abilities, because they think they are worthless or don't synergies well in any role, then rework the abilities,instead of forcing people to slot the abilities that (in their opinion) are worthless.

    I understand what ZOS is trying to do making people pick and choose/not have access to everything. However, this makes me wonder where this will end? Should you be able to have Fighter's guild passives working without slotting any abilities on both bars ? How about the Soul trap passives?What about assault and support passives? Another example of this is people eqiupping a dual weild weapon, not slotting any of the weapon skills, but putting points into the passive and (wierdly) gettung extra spell damage. Currently many passives work without you having to slot the skill on (both!)bars. Why are WW/Vamp skill lines being singled out for this treatment?I really hope that this isn't the start of a trend..

    ZOS is always saying they don't like to nerf, but prefer to bring the weaker aspect up to par? By doing this, they will increase player diversity/builds and make the decision a pleasant experience. Instead the builds/diversity are being reduced by arbitrary restrictions.If they continue in this direction, then they should ensure that the atleast 1/2 of skills they are forcing people to slot synergies with being a healer/tank/dps/pvp style etc. And remember, the ability would need to be appealing whether you are doing PVE/PVE/levelling/dungeons etc, since you have to slot it at ALL time, in ALL situations and environments.

    TLDR: Buff weaker aspects up (if that's the issue)=Everybody happy because some people got buffed and the rest didn't get nerfed.

    P'S I still love the game, am glad about reduction in fire damage and will keep my vamp..I still feel awesome if I use Batswarm..and werewolves look awesome while transformed :smiley:
    Edited by angelyn on August 27, 2015 12:25AM
  • bowmanz607
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    I think it is a much needed change. Gives more of a detriment to running it making choosing being normal more appealing.
  • Xeniph
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    I don't see the need for that change personally. I mean I get why they did it. I just would have done it totally diff.

    Instead of making WW's slot their Ulti, I would have let them keep all benefits while in human form, but made them suffer the weakness in either form ( Element+Fighters guild) like vamps.
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  • bowmanz607
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    Xeniph wrote: »
    I don't see the need for that change personally. I mean I get why they did it. I just would have done it totally diff.

    Instead of making WW's slot their Ulti, I would have let them keep all benefits while in human form, but made them suffer the weakness in either form ( Element+Fighters guild) like vamps.

    Ya WW needs a revisit I think. Changing to WW form is just not worth it. So slotting the ultimate 8s losing a slot. At least vamp has skills you can incorporate into a build and are effective
  • ADarklore
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    As someone new to the vamp world, I can say that I agree with these changes. While I do feel that vamps, who automatically receive detrimental effects upon becoming a vamp, are already penalized... something becoming a WW didn't do... the fact is that the only impact this has is upon the Magicka/Stamina regen passive- and they're doing it to stop those who become a vamp simply for those passives... which I agree with.

    People here seem quick to dismiss the Drain Essence changes, which I think are awesome and will make this a very beneficial healing skill... and Bat Swarm is arguably one of the better Ultimates in the game. I've had no problems adding the Ultimate to one bar and Drain Essence to my other... and for those above who asked- YES, you have to have at least one vampire ability on BOTH bars otherwise you'd lose the regen passive when switching to the bar without the vamp ability.

    I have to laugh at people who talk about the 'loss of health regen' because that only impacts those who don't feed regularly- at stage one there is NO health regen loss and at stage 2 there is only 25% loss... this is mitigated with later passives which reduce the health regen penalty. The ONLY benefit for your vamp at stage 4 is "reduced cost of VAMPIRE abilities"- so if you aren't using vampire abilities regularly, why would you want to remain at stage 4?

    Further, vampires also receive damage mitigation below 50% health, up to 33% mitigation... which also helps to offset the health regen loss. The benefits to Stage 1 are huge... no health regen loss, only 25% incr damage from fire, damage mitigation at 50%, faster stealth speeds, and 10% increase to Magicka/Stamina regen (with at least one ability slotted per bar).
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  • bowmanz607
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    ADarklore wrote: »
    As someone new to the vamp world, I can say that I agree with these changes. While I do feel that vamps, who automatically receive detrimental effects upon becoming a vamp, are already penalized... something becoming a WW didn't do... the fact is that the only impact this has is upon the Magicka/Stamina regen passive- and they're doing it to stop those who become a vamp simply for those passives... which I agree with.

    People here seem quick to dismiss the Drain Essence changes, which I think are awesome and will make this a very beneficial healing skill... and Bat Swarm is arguably one of the better Ultimates in the game. I've had no problems adding the Ultimate to one bar and Drain Essence to my other... and for those above who asked- YES, you have to have at least one vampire ability on BOTH bars otherwise you'd lose the regen passive when switching to the bar without the vamp ability.

    I have to laugh at people who talk about the 'loss of health regen' because that only impacts those who don't feed regularly- at stage one there is NO health regen loss and at stage 2 there is only 25% loss... this is mitigated with later passives which reduce the health regen penalty. The ONLY benefit for your vamp at stage 4 is "reduced cost of VAMPIRE abilities"- so if you aren't using vampire abilities regularly, why would you want to remain at stage 4?

    Further, vampires also receive damage mitigation below 50% health, up to 33% mitigation... which also helps to offset the health regen loss. The benefits to Stage 1 are huge... no health regen loss, only 25% incr damage from fire, damage mitigation at 50%, faster stealth speeds, and 10% increase to Magicka/Stamina regen (with at least one ability slotted per bar).

    I agree to an extent. I would add that even slotting bat swarm on your front bar is enough. You really 9nly need the recovery on you man bar since that is the bar your using. As you pointed out bat swarm is a very useful ult and that is both morphs. Also, regardless of your stage of vampire, health regen is crap anyway. I would rather take to damage mitigation over the recovery and rely on other sources for health. Mainly HoT.
  • BuggeX
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    Remove the Change for the requirement of sloting a skill for both.
    Buff WW to be on par with Vamp
    Chars with Lyncrotopie or Vampirism should not be allowed to use Fighterguilds Skills.
    Edited by BuggeX on August 27, 2015 12:34PM
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  • bowmanz607
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    BuggeX wrote: »
    Remove the Change for the requirement of sloting a skill for both.
    Buff WW to be on par with Vamp
    Chars with Lyncrotopie or Vampirism should not be allowed to use Fighterguilds Skills.

    Well that Is just discrimination. Keeping vamps out of the fighters gu8ld. They have rights too. :)
  • ADarklore
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    I agree to an extent. I would add that even slotting bat swarm on your front bar is enough.

    How you have your bar set and others have theirs set is not the same; I use my main bar for single target and my second bar for AoE, and I need Magicka regen on BOTH as I use both equally; I have Drain Essence on my single target bar and Bat Swarm on my AoE bar. B)
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  • BuggeX
    BuggeX
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    bowmanz607 wrote: »
    BuggeX wrote: »
    Remove the Change for the requirement of sloting a skill for both.
    Buff WW to be on par with Vamp
    Chars with Lyncrotopie or Vampirism should not be allowed to use Fighterguilds Skills.

    Well that Is just discrimination. Keeping vamps out of the fighters gu8ld. They have rights too. :)

    Yea, but wy should someone without this doesnt have a Bonus?

    Yea its funny to watch a a Vampire kill a other Vampire with lethal arrow and camo Hunter
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  • deviousthevile
    Kammakazi wrote: »
    Just slot Mist Form (It's pretty g)

    Does mist form actually work? I have slotted my Essence Drain and my Bats and have seen 0 change to my regen numbers. Mist form is only vamp skill i dont have.
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