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Vampires needing to slot ability to much of a punishment?

Clarebear
Clarebear
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Vampires are already committed to that choice of playstyle by the fact that being a Vampire we loose Health Regen and also take more Fire Damage. I think Werewolf needing to slot Ultimate makes sense (not that I fully agree with it I think WW need rebalanced) to get their passives but they also don't get any negative effects if not in Werewolf form.

So why make Vampires have to slot an ability when we already have a trade off we made.



Please don't argue with people or just dismiss how someone feels regarding this topic. Please feel free to discuss the topic with Constructive Feedback. I would like this post to be Constructive and Useful to the community .

Patch Notes Link http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200571/pts-patch-notes-v2-1/p1



Werewolf
You can now safely press the button for the werewolf ultimate repeatedly without fear of immediately reverting back to normal again.
Removed Stamina Regeneration from Lycanthropy; it now requires Werewolf Transformation to be slotted in your ability bar.
Reduced the poison damage you receive while in Werewolf form to 25% from 40%.
Fixed an issue which was allowing Negate Magic to pull Werewolves out of Werewolf Form.
Fixed an issue where heavy attacks would play twice before striking your target while in werewolf form.
You can no longer fish or use the dye station while in werewolf form.
Devour: This ability can no longer target a destroyed Aura of Protection totem.
Infectious Claws (Claws of Anguish morph): Fixed an issue where the healing debuff was stacking with other healing debuffs.
Savage Strength (passive): This passive will no longer will be removed when your character is killed.

Vampire
Reduced the fire damage you receive to 25% from 40%.
Drain Essence: This ability now restores 10% of your health every second, and stuns your target on activation. It can be used on CC-immune targets, and can be used all the time (it no longer activates the Feed debuff).
Supernatural Recovery (passive): This passive now only works while any Vampire ability is slotted in your ability bar.
Edited by Clarebear on August 16, 2015 7:15PM
  • Kammakazi
    Kammakazi
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    Just slot Mist Form (It's pretty g)
  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    Its not as bad as WW having to slot their ult but I think its pretty stupid that I am now forced to slot a vamp ability. I currently don't use any in my builds but I guess I'll have to start using mist form now on both my bars...

    Really a stupid idea ZOS.

    Thanks for reading.
    Kobaal - VR16 Dragon Knight - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Kobaal Shadowborn - VR16 NightBlade - PC [NA] Azura Star
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  • Forestd16b14_ESO
    Forestd16b14_ESO
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    Not stupid you just have to learn to adjust.
  • UrQuan
    UrQuan
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    Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.
    Caius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
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    Someone stole my sweetroll
  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    Not stupid you just have to learn to adjust.

    That's why I said I will have to start using Mist form.... I still think its a stupid decision.
    Kobaal - VR16 Dragon Knight - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Kobaal Shadowborn - VR16 NightBlade - PC [NA] Azura Star
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  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    Clarebear wrote: »
    Vampires are already committed to that choice of playstyle by the fact that being a Vampire we loose Health Regen and also take more Fire Damage. I think Werewolf needing to slot Ultimate makes sense to get their passives but they also don't get any negative effects if not in Werewolf form. So why make Vampires have to slot an ability when we already have a trade off we made.

    Seriously? As was said above WW have to slot an ULTIMATE! and WW don't get super sneak. Vampires really have nothing to complain about.
  • wafcatb14_ESO
    wafcatb14_ESO
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    They Need to make Vampires Kos to all guards and Npc won`t interact with them in stage 4.
  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    They Need to make Vampires Kos to all guards and Npc won`t interact with them in stage 4.

    ^ This^
  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Clarebear wrote: »
    Vampires are already committed to that choice of playstyle by the fact that being a Vampire we loose Health Regen and also take more Fire Damage. I think Werewolf needing to slot Ultimate makes sense to get their passives but they also don't get any negative effects if not in Werewolf form. So why make Vampires have to slot an ability when we already have a trade off we made.

    Seriously? As was said above WW have to slot an ULTIMATE! and WW don't get super sneak. Vampires really have nothing to complain about.

    I'm sorry but this mentality is really bad for the community. Personally I think its stupid to slot abilities for both WW AND Vamp. It's forcing both to slot an ability which I think is not a good idea. I agree WW players have it worse than vamps however, saying that WW players have it worse so don't complain is not the right mentality...
    Kobaal - VR16 Dragon Knight - PC [NA] Azura Star
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  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

    I became vamp because I'm a magicka nightblade and I like the movement speed increase while stealthed and the Magick regen passive.
    Kobaal - VR16 Dragon Knight - PC [NA] Azura Star
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    Kobaal Stormborn- VR3 Sorcerer - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Fat Old Templar - lvl 19 Templar - PC [NA] BwB
  • VoidBlue
    VoidBlue
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.



    they wanted the extra -40% fire damage to them lol
  • UrQuan
    UrQuan
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    Kobaal wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

    I became vamp because I'm a magicka nightblade and I like the movement speed increase while stealthed and the Magick regen passive.
    Do you honestly find that those make up for the lack of health regen and the fire weakness? Because I just don't see it... If you're not going to use at least one of the Vampire active abilities, Vampirism is strictly a disadvantage.
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    Someone stole my sweetroll
  • Clarebear
    Clarebear
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    Kobaal wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

    I became vamp because I'm a magicka nightblade and I like the movement speed increase while stealthed and the Magick regen passive.

    I did the same plus for the regen as a Magika NB most Vampire abilities don't do much that I don't already have available as a class ability. I figured the trade off on fire damage and less regen made going Vampire worth the extra passives.
  • eNumbra
    eNumbra
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

    Magicka/stamina Regen, enhanced speed reentering stealth, enhanced movement speed in stealth.
    Edited by eNumbra on July 31, 2015 10:22PM
  • UrQuan
    UrQuan
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    eNumbra wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

    Magicka/stamina Regen, enhanced speed reentering stealth, enhanced movement speed in stealth.
    As I said above - totally not worth it compared to the lack of health regen and fire vulnerability (and vulnerability to FG abilities if you PVP). If you're going to make use of one of the active skills, sure. If you're not, it's just not worth it.
    Caius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
    Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
    Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
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    J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)
    Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
    Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
    Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
    Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
    Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)
    Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
    Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
    Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
    Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
    Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp
    Someone stole my sweetroll
  • eNumbra
    eNumbra
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Magicka/stamina Regen, enhanced speed reentering stealth, enhanced movement speed in stealth.
    As I said above - totally not worth it compared to the lack of health regen and fire vulnerability (and vulnerability to FG abilities if you PVP). If you're going to make use of one of the active skills, sure. If you're not, it's just not worth it.
    In your opinion.

    I PvP enough with my Vamp NB and I have more issues with prolonged fights and my lack of health regen than I do the fire or FG vulnerabilities.

    But hey, totally not worth it and that's clearly a fact.
    Edited by eNumbra on July 31, 2015 10:26PM
  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Kobaal wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

    I became vamp because I'm a magicka nightblade and I like the movement speed increase while stealthed and the Magick regen passive.
    Do you honestly find that those make up for the lack of health regen and the fire weakness? Because I just don't see it... If you're not going to use at least one of the Vampire active abilities, Vampirism is strictly a disadvantage.

    I mostly PvP and I don't mind the lack of health regen nor fire weakness. I'm a Dark Elf so my passive along with a handful of champ points into fire resist help with fire weakness. If you feel I'm at a disadvantage if I dont use vamp abilities that's your opinion which you are entitled to.
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  • Vizier
    Vizier
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

    The passives. I pretty much go vampire just for the passives, especially the in stealth movement. May as well make it so you have to slot any guild ability to get the passives for that skill line, or class or armor or weapon etc. I agree that singling out Vamps, if that is what ZoS is doing, is ill conceived.
    Edited by Vizier on July 31, 2015 10:39PM
  • UrQuan
    UrQuan
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    Kobaal wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Kobaal wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

    I became vamp because I'm a magicka nightblade and I like the movement speed increase while stealthed and the Magick regen passive.
    Do you honestly find that those make up for the lack of health regen and the fire weakness? Because I just don't see it... If you're not going to use at least one of the Vampire active abilities, Vampirism is strictly a disadvantage.

    I mostly PvP and I don't mind the lack of health regen nor fire weakness. I'm a Dark Elf so my passive along with a handful of champ points into fire resist help with fire weakness. If you feel I'm at a disadvantage if I dont use vamp abilities that's your opinion which you are entitled to.
    Well, being Dunmer does mitigate the Vampire weaknesses somewhat, so yeah, for a Dunmer with the right kind of build (ie. one that relies very heavily on stealth), i could see it being very slightly worthwhile to be a Vampire even if you're not going to use the active abilities. But only barely...
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    Someone stole my sweetroll
  • Olivierko
    Olivierko
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    Dude, vampires have three abilities, if you become a vampire without using a single ability then you clearly don't need the skill line.

    Having the diseases (ww/vamp) just for the passives is quite boring and I'm glad that they made this change, not like it changes anything really but we won't be seeing as many ww's as we have today.
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  • eNumbra
    eNumbra
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    Olivierko wrote: »
    Dude, vampires have three abilities, if you become a vampire without using a single ability then you clearly don't need the skill line.

    Having the diseases (ww/vamp) just for the passives is quite boring and I'm glad that they made this change, not like it changes anything really but we won't be seeing as many ww's as we have today.

    This is the most ridiculous post I've ever seen.


    In your opinion, not using the active skills on the line is boring and therefore people should be forced to use them.
  • Tholian1
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    I just became a vampire and, so far, am having a lot of fun with the vampire abilities. i think I have room to keep at least one skill slotted.
    PS4 Pro NA
  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    UrQuan wrote: »
    Kobaal wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Kobaal wrote: »
    UrQuan wrote: »
    Why would you even be a Vampire if you're not going to slot a Vampire ability? Unlike Werewolves (currently, anyway - this won't apply after the big patch) who have benefits just for being Werewolves, with no penalties, the penalties for being a Vampire outweigh the benefits unless you're going to be using Vampire skills...

    So I really fail to see how having to slot a skill is a hardship for Vampires, considering there's no point in being a Vampire anyway if you're not using the skills.

    I became vamp because I'm a magicka nightblade and I like the movement speed increase while stealthed and the Magick regen passive.
    Do you honestly find that those make up for the lack of health regen and the fire weakness? Because I just don't see it... If you're not going to use at least one of the Vampire active abilities, Vampirism is strictly a disadvantage.

    I mostly PvP and I don't mind the lack of health regen nor fire weakness. I'm a Dark Elf so my passive along with a handful of champ points into fire resist help with fire weakness. If you feel I'm at a disadvantage if I dont use vamp abilities that's your opinion which you are entitled to.
    Well, being Dunmer does mitigate the Vampire weaknesses somewhat, so yeah, for a Dunmer with the right kind of build (ie. one that relies very heavily on stealth), i could see it being very slightly worthwhile to be a Vampire even if you're not going to use the active abilities. But only barely...

    Yea I use cloak a lot and the increased movement in stealth sort of compensates for me not having any stamina. I mean I can literally spam cloak over and over again and not lose magicka. 37k magicka and 1200 regen.
    Kobaal - VR16 Dragon Knight - PC [NA] Azura Star
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  • Elhanan
    Elhanan
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    I have 4 characters (2 vampire and 2 werewolf). It is regrettable that many people, myself included, feel they cannot just be non-vamp/ww due to the superior advantages they offer. While these new changes are certainly inconvenient, they are appropriate. There are too many vampires and insanely way too many werewolves. Even with the new changes there will still be absolutely no reason (barring character lore rationale) not to be werewolf since there are no disadvantages unless you are actively in werewolf form. I've long believed they need to make werewolf poison weakness apply even when out of form. In light of these recent vampire changes and for the sake of balance, I believe that wereolves need persistent poison weakness even more now. After that, maybe we will have a reasonable amount of each (vamp/ww).
  • Solanum
    Solanum
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    I kind of like to have an excuse to put a Vampire skill on my bar.

    While I often wanted to go more Vampiric, alternate choices for ultimates and skills were just far far better.

    I'm comfortable with this change, would really like the healthregen penalty to be turned into a buff.
  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    Ok back to the Topic of this thread:

    Vampires having to slot ability to get passives = Bad
    Kobaal - VR16 Dragon Knight - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Kobaal Shadowborn - VR16 NightBlade - PC [NA] Azura Star
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  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    Kobaal wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Clarebear wrote: »
    Vampires are already committed to that choice of playstyle by the fact that being a Vampire we loose Health Regen and also take more Fire Damage. I think Werewolf needing to slot Ultimate makes sense to get their passives but they also don't get any negative effects if not in Werewolf form. So why make Vampires have to slot an ability when we already have a trade off we made.

    Seriously? As was said above WW have to slot an ULTIMATE! and WW don't get super sneak. Vampires really have nothing to complain about.

    I'm sorry but this mentality is really bad for the community. Personally I think its stupid to slot abilities for both WW AND Vamp. It's forcing both to slot an ability which I think is not a good idea. I agree WW players have it worse than vamps however, saying that WW players have it worse so don't complain is not the right mentality...

    Please, I am sorry you are offended by someone who thinks differently than you. WW do not get super stealth speed and will have to slot an ultimate, Vampires from day one have always been a much more effective class. That I point this out and point out that vampires have it better is not a bad mentally, enough with the thought police already.

    Life is not about telling others how to think so I would appreciate it if you would refrain from doing so. You can disagree with me and that is great but you have no right to tell me how to think.
    Edited by Skwor on July 31, 2015 11:21PM
  • corwinDA
    corwinDA
    Its a trade folks, and rightfully so. You wanted all those passive affects but then complained about fire one shotting you now they nerf the fire damage but make you at least put one "skill" on your bar. Honestly WW is getting a far worse deal I understand wanting things but not wanting to "pay" for them is childish. Honestly I get around just fine with the debuffs as they are now and I use bat swarm on my dps bar when I go pvp ill put it on my healing bar as well problem solved for me. Kightblades bat swarm is great as well on your magika build stealth-> leap-> bat swarm -> profit. Mist form/cloak-> dodge roll -> scurry away before your killed -> wussy but a living wussy
  • corwinDA
    corwinDA
    Sorry I forgot to a dress the health regen debuff, my apologies. Regen drink. Thank you that is all.
  • Corpsage
    Corpsage
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    The changes coming to Vampires SUCK. As a magicka Templar I chose to become a Vampire SPECIFICALLY for the regen passives. Do I have room on my bar(S) for a Vampire ability, no. Not without sacrificing something I actually NEED on my bar(S). As a Vampire I constantly take more damage from fire attacks as well as the loss of health regen, because I am 100% of the time a Vampire. There's no transformation, this is now my full being. Does it make sense that I dont feel certain effects because I chose to not have Vampire specific abilities slotted? Absolutely not when I am 100% of the time in game a Vampire.
    Edited by Corpsage on July 31, 2015 11:27PM
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